NYC inner city kids boycott standardized test

[bootleg42]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2008/05/21/2008-05-21_bronx_8thgraders_boycott_practice_exam_b-1.html


Students at a South Bronx (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/South+Bronx) middle school have pulled off a stunning boycott against standardized testing.
More than 160 students in six different classes at Intermediate School 318 in the South Bronx - virtually the entire eighth grade - refused to take last Wednesday's three-hour practice exam for next month's statewide social studies test.
Instead, the students handed in blank exams.
Then they submitted signed petitions with a list of grievances to school Principal Maria Lopez (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Maria+Lopez) and the Department of Education (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/U.S.+Department+of+Education).
"We've had a whole bunch of these diagnostic tests all year," Tatiana Nelson (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tatiana+Nelson), 13, one of the protest leaders, said Tuesday outside the school. "They don't even count toward our grades. The school system's just treating us like test dummies for the companies that make the exams."
According to the petition, they are sick and tired of the "constant, excessive and stressful testing" that causes them to "lose valuable instructional time with our teachers."
School administrators blamed the boycott on a 30-year-old probationary social studies teacher, Douglas Avella (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Douglas+Avella).
The afternoon of the protest, the principal ordered Avella out of the classroom, reassigned him to an empty room in the school and ordered him to have no further contact with students.
A few days later, in a reprimand letter, Lopez accused Avella of initiating the boycott and taking "actions [that] caused a riot at the school."
The students say their protest was entirely peaceful. In only one class, they say, was there some loud clapping after one exam proctor reacted angrily to their boycott.
This week, Lopez notified Avella in writing that he was to attend a meeting today for "your end of the year rating and my possible recommendation for the discontinuance of your probationary service."
"They're saying Mr. Avella made us do this," said Johnny Cruz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Johnny+Cruz), 15, another boycott leader. "They don't think we have brains of our own, like we're robots. We students wanted to make this statement. The school is oppressing us too much with all these tests."
Two days after the boycott, the students say, the principal held a meeting with all the students to find out how their protest was organized.
Avella on Tuesday denied that he urged the students to boycott tests.
Yes, he holds liberal views and is critical of the school system's increased emphasis on standardized tests, Avella said, but the students decided to organize the protest after weeks of complaining about all the diagnostic tests the school was making them take.
"My students know they are welcome in my class to have open discussions," Avella said. "I teach them critical thinking."
"Some teachers implied our graduation ceremony would be in danger, that we didn't have the right to protest against the test," said Tia Rivera (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tia+Rivera), 14. "Well, we did it."
Lopez did not return calls for comment.
"This guy was far over the line in a lot of the ways he was running his classroom," said Department of Education spokesman David Cantor (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/David+Cantor). "He was pulled because he was inappropriate with the kids. He was giving them messages that were inappropriate."
Several students defended Avella. They say he had made social studies an exciting subject for them.
"Now they've taken away the teacher we love only a few weeks before our real state exam for social studies," Tatiana Nelson said. "How does that help us?"


Incredible. It shows that when you actually allow kids to critically think, the poor ones will rebel. I touches me because just 3 years ago, I was in their shoes for those constant standardized tests that are made up by corporations and other private power. I'm from the same background as these kids and was in their shoes. Too bad I didn't try something like this but shit.....I hope this is a start of a new trend.

Thoughts???

[black magick hustla]

lol to be honest I dont think they are protesting because "tests make us lose valuable instructional time." I was a kid, and if we had boycotted the tests our real reason would be because school bores us.to be honest, i think it is silly. i mean, yeah tests suck but standarized tests can help you with scholarships or for future college applications, so its their loss.if i didnt want to take the test i would have just skipped class and not made a huge deal out of it.

[Harrycombs]

I have been taking standardized tests for the past couple of weeks, and I don't mind at all.

I don't understand what these kids are thinking, tests are to see how well you have learned the material, and how well the teachers are doing. Without tests, they can't see how kids are doing, or if they need help.

I will admit that there is to much emphasis on tests, rather than actually teaching kids, but this is ridiculous. The kids are not thinking at all about their education in the long run, and the school is acting more childish than the kids. I'm sure these kids are smart and feel they're oppressed, but it seems that they are following the usually media message to everyone is that "school is boring and pointless."

Kids need to understand how important it is for them to learn. They are lucky they're even getting an education (although not a very good one) in America. Really, what do these tests have to do with corporations? This seems like a chance to just get out of taking a test in my humble opinion. I see no point in this at all.

And the way the schools are reacting is even worse though, blaming the boycott all on one teacher.

I don't think that standardized testing helps kids learn, but if there isn't one we don't know who well the schools are doing. I think schools should care more about helping their students than just one big test, but they are needed. Testing is not a form of oppression. Schools are supposed to help people. Although, in this country they, along with the media, send kids the usually bourgeois propaganda. But still, the entire attitude towards schools is silly. If they are there to help you learn, you should take advantage of it. Without these tests, the schools wont know how much of a shitty job they're doing.

I would support a boycott like this if it was for reforms for better schools, but there is no point to this. I see no correlation between tests and corporations.

[bootleg42]

I don't think some of you understand what these tests are to us in the inner city. Corporation make the tests up. All they do in these inner city schools in make you memorize stuff which you forget later, hence never creating critical thinking skills to us youth. They also include huge indoctrination and in the inner city, the schools are just factories for creating loyal worker robots who will be loyal to their bosses and markets.

The fact that these students were thought critical thinking and the fact they responded to it should be applauded and encouraged.

I think some of you are really missing the message.

[Dust Bunnies]

These kids are my heroes. We all should boycott No Child Left Behind tests. This is a move by our oppressors to prevent us from critically thinking, preventing us from being able to even know the truth of Communism, and if we do find out, we wouldn't have the intelligence to lead one. Only those who go to private schools could be our last hope... (so that mean I'll be useful... YAY!)

[bootleg42]

preventing us from being able to even know the truth of Communism

Honestly, I don't think the power structures are worried about that. They're more worried about the thinking critically part more than anything.

[Harrycombs]

This is a move by our oppressors to prevent us from critically thinking, preventing us from being able to even know the truth of Communism,

I don't live in the inner city (in fact I live in a richer area, but our tests are for the whole state), but I'm sure standardized tests are NOT whats preventing people from learning about communism.

This is one of the weirdest things I have seen. Tests are not forms of oppression. They do not allow critical thinking when doing them, but that doesn't mean that schools don't encourage it.

The bourgeois are not trying to limit peoples capacity through tests. Other methods, like through the mass media, make much more sense.

The only complaints I have against schools is when they teach government they talk about how communism doesn't work (although, I argued with our teacher about every time he mention command economies), but besides reinforcing ideas that have been pounded into us 100s of other ways, there isn't any problem. Schools and tests are not forms of oppression. They are to help you. They will be needed after the revolution too.

Also, HOW do the corporations write the test? It makes no sense to me. Our standardized tests are written by the state.

I live in a richer area (although some areas in this state are quite poor), but I can assure you that the points of tests is NOT to make people robots and slaves! This is just silly.

Its good that kids are taking action against what they think is oppression, but they are wrong.

Let me quote one kid,
"The school is oppressing us too much with all these tests."

Tests are not a form of oppression. Let me repeat that, tests are not a form of oppression.

[Uncle Hank]

That brings a smile to my face. At my school when they make us take tests to determine the levels for new grading scales on standardized tests and I always put my name as Washington Irving (it should go without saying that that is not my name) and turn the test in blank as my own form of quiet protest. I've tried to urge fellow classmates to do the same as standardized testing is nearly useless and put way too much stock into, but none have taken the initiative. And I'm at a private school, so I imagine the standardized testing regimen at other schools is much more rigorous, as it was when I was in a public school last year.

[Harrycombs]

^

How is testing hurting you? :laugh:

[Uncle Hank]

^

How is testing hurting you? :laugh:

It may not be explicitly hurting me but it's sure as hell not helping me. Time could be much better spent, and that's all I'm saying.

[Harrycombs]

I agree that time could be better spent, but I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

Plus, the kids and this article are doing it because of the "corporations", which have nothing to do with it.

[Uncle Hank]

The attempt was slightly misguided, yeah, but at least they know they have a voice and can use it. A lot of what public education is about is head down, shut up, be a good boy/girl, get good test scores. It's just nice to see something differ from the monotonous norm in the system, for once, and not for the worse, for once.

[Mariner's Revenge]

Harrycombs, please step back and realize that your experience in a richer neighborhood, probably a suburb, is MUCH different then the experience of bootleg when it comes to standardized tests and schooling.

At least where I grew up standardized tests determined how much funding a school would get. If the kids did well, the school would get a lot of funding. If the kids did bad, the school wouldn't get a lot of funding. Then we have to acknowledge that the school systems in the inner city are MUCH worse than in the suburbs so now you see a perfect example of institutionalized classism/racism in the United States.

The chance of inner city schools being able to compete with suburban schools in standardized testing is very slim due to many reasons including personal lives, teaching, parents, and general outlook on their future so standardized tests are just slap in the face to them. It would be like you, having no training and twisting your ankle, racing someone who is perfectly healthy and has been trained his or her whole life and the winner of the race gets better health coverage and training in the future.

Besides that, standardized tests are a backhanded way to show that suburban schools are "better" than inner city schools.


So yes, standardized tests ARE oppressive and I bow my head to the courage and leadership needed to pull off something like this.


Honeycombs, I can give you a link to a good article about inner city schools if you are interested.

[Uncle Hank]

Excellent post Mariner's Revenge, I applaud you.

[which doctor]

The schoolwide refusal of a school to take a test does not surprise me that much, but I didn't think they would be as conscious as they were about standardized testing. I imagine most of the students participated in the protest just so they wouldn't have to take the test. The organizing was most likely the work of a small group of conscious agitators. At least that's from my experience of school wide protests.

[Plagueround]

These kids are my heroes. We all should boycott No Child Left Behind tests. This is a move by our oppressors to prevent us from critically thinking, preventing us from being able to even know the truth of Communism, and if we do find out, we wouldn't have the intelligence to lead one. Only those who go to private schools could be our last hope... (so that mean I'll be useful... YAY!)

I find the idea that somehow our last hope is the "elite of private schooling" kind of funny.
Most private schools still receive funding from the government, which means they have to follow the NCLB testing standards as well. I noticed the "Catholic Commie" statement in your signature...do you happen to go to a Catholic school? If you do, how can you possibly contend that a Catholic school is somehow less restrictive? If you don't, what support do you have of private schools being superior?

Coincidentally, I read an article today about a study that found private schools are doing no better in mathematics than public schools. In fact, the article found the public school students eventually pulling ahead of Catholic schools in particular. I'd love to see the results of other subjects.

That being said, your admission of still being in a private school means you're younger than I am, but I don't like to judge people by their age and have never been a fan of the "young people don't know shit" attitude, so I'll close by saying you're still probably a pretty cool kid to still be in school and already have a grasp of leftist politics. :)

[bootleg42]

Harrycombs, please step back and realize that your experience in a richer neighborhood, probably a suburb, is MUCH different then the experience of bootleg when it comes to standardized tests and schooling.

At least where I grew up standardized tests determined how much funding a school would get. If the kids did well, the school would get a lot of funding. If the kids did bad, the school wouldn't get a lot of funding. Then we have to acknowledge that the school systems in the inner city are MUCH worse than in the suburbs so now you see a perfect example of institutionalized classism/racism in the United States.

The chance of inner city schools being able to compete with suburban schools in standardized testing is very slim due to many reasons including personal lives, teaching, parents, and general outlook on their future so standardized tests are just slap in the face to them. It would be like you, having no training and twisting your ankle, racing someone who is perfectly healthy and has been trained his or her whole life and the winner of the race gets better health coverage and training in the future.

Besides that, standardized tests are a backhanded way to show that suburban schools are "better" than inner city schools.


So yes, standardized tests ARE oppressive and I bow my head to the courage and leadership needed to pull off something like this.


Honeycombs, I can give you a link to a good article about inner city schools if you are interested.

GREAT post. :)

[gla22]

I am torn on this. Standardized tests(SAT/ACT) are useful because it prevents dumb kids in easy schools from taking my spot in college. The star tests are a waste though.

[Guerrilla22]

They have a right to protest. I would too if I was in their situation. Public schools get funding based on performance, so aside from the fact that kids are missing out on getting a well rounded education because schools are only teaching what is likely to appear on the test, schools in lower income areas are put at a distinct disadvantage.

[Plagueround]

I am torn on this. Standardized tests(SAT/ACT) are useful because it prevents dumb kids in easy schools from taking my spot in college. The star tests are a waste though.

Passing a standardized test is not and never will be an accurate measure of mental ability.

[Harrycombs]

Harrycombs, please step back and realize that your experience in a richer neighborhood, probably a suburb, is MUCH different then the experience of bootleg when it comes to standardized tests and schooling.



Ok, thats why I admitted to not knowing everything.



At least where I grew up standardized tests determined how much funding a school would get. If the kids did well, the school would get a lot of funding. If the kids did bad, the school wouldn't get a lot of funding.
Its the way it is here too, and I think its a stupid system as well, but its not oppressive, it just shows the incompetence of our nations education system.



Then we have to acknowledge that the school systems in the inner city are MUCH worse than in the suburbs so now you see a perfect example of institutionalized classism/racism in the United States.
That is true, and I think it is a terrible thing. I agree with you here, but where does testing come in?



The chance of inner city schools being able to compete with suburban schools in standardized testing is very slim due to many reasons including personal lives, teaching, parents, and general outlook on their future so standardized tests are just slap in the face to them. It would be like you, having no training and twisting your ankle, racing someone who is perfectly healthy and has been trained his or her whole life and the winner of the race gets better health coverage and training in the future.
But you seem to be looking at the stand point as if the tests are made to annoy kids. The reason for tests is to measure how well the schools are teaching their kids. Tests are necessary. I agree that the ways schools getting funding is an extremely stupid idea (the high school where I live has a 97% passing rate, and for even more funding you need to increase it:scared:). I think its a stupid system, but other capitalist countries have much, much better systems than ours.




Besides that, standardized tests are a backhanded way to show that suburban schools are "better" than inner city schools.
You wouldn't even know that though, if there wasn't standardized testing, would you? Wouldn't it be worse to not even have a scale to show if a school is doing bad so that the government can say "every things fine, all of the schools are doing great." These tests are necessary to measure how well a school is doing. If they were boycotting the tests because their schools suck and that they demand a better education, I would completely support them. But their reasons were the corporations and being oppressed by testing. Also, where do the corporations come into causing this at all? It looks like bad leadership within the government to me. Not everyone in the government is trying to help special interests, especially on a state and local levels. There are honest, idealist capitalists who think they're helping the world too.



So yes, standardized tests ARE oppressive and I bow my head to the courage and leadership needed to pull off something like this.
I would say that the education system is messed up, but not that its oppressive. I do think that there is racism involved, and a general bourgeois attitude towards kids in the inner city, but their reasons don't make sense.

If they boycotted the tests for better funding, teachers, supplies, and opportunities, then I would support this. But their reasons that they cited were the tests and the corporations.



Honeycombs, I can give you a link to a good article about inner city schools if you are interested.Its Harrycombs, and I would be interested to see that article.

[Mariner's Revenge]

Its the way it is here too, and I think its a stupid system as well, but its not oppressive, it just shows the incompetence of our nations education system.
But it is oppressive. When looking at all supremacist social doctrines (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc), you will find that even though there are many different ways to display the supremest doctrine, they are all oppressive. Lets take racism for example. There are many ways to display racism, direct, institutionalized, social, etc. Direct racism would be brought out by individuals such as job postings that say "No Negros need apply" or actions by the KKK. State sponsored or institutionalized racism would be something like the past immigration laws in the United States where more Western and Northern Europeans would be let in then any other ethnic groups. Social racism, the one we largely see today, would be the population embracing the stereotype that all blacks are criminals or the idea that whites need to civilized blacks for them to be successful. All three of these types or racism are oppressive, just in different ways.

Going back to our situation, I have shown how standardized tests are an example of institutionalized classism/racism, and being part of a supremest social doctrine, it will naturally be oppressive. The way the standardized tests are used makes it harder for urban kids to get more funding and move on to further education, which is oppressive.

To clear this up, standardized tests are not naturally oppressive but they are oppressive on how they are being used.


That is true, and I think it is a terrible thing. I agree with you here, but where does testing come in?Standardized tests are being used in an oppressive way. Besides that, the article hints that the boycott is directed more towards the number of tests and not the funding, even though it could still be a cause, I don't know, so there would be the second argument that inner city kids are just being used as test dummies for real tests.


But you seem to be looking at the stand point as if the tests are made to annoy kids. The reason for tests is to measure how well the schools are teaching their kids.Correct, but read the article again. They are talking about multiple tests.


You wouldn't even know that though, if there wasn't standardized testing, would you? Wouldn't it be worse to not even have a scale to show if a school is doing bad so that the government can say "every things fine, all of the schools are doing great."I really don't see much difference between the two. Right now the system does not work to improve schools with low test scores so what makes your scenario any better than the current one?


These tests are necessary to measure how well a school is doing.How many tests and what tests are you talking about? When you read the article you can see that they boycotted the tests after having to take multiple tests, not the once every two year standardized test I'm sure you have taken.


If they were boycotting the tests because their schools suck and that they demand a better education, I would completely support them. But their reasons were the corporations and being oppressed by testing. Also, where do the corporations come into causing this at all?In the article it says that they are tired of being treated as test dummies. I honestly don't know what all this means, but it seems like they are being used to see what questions are good or not. I don't know if funding has to do with this though.


I would say that the education system is messed up, but not that its oppressive. I do think that there is racism involved, and a general bourgeois attitude towards kids in the inner city, but their reasons don't make sense.The educational system naturally favors rich suburban kids, making it oppressive.


Its Harrycombs, and I would be interested to see that article.My apologies about the name.

Err...about the link. I have tried to put spaces and x's between the link but it still won't let me post it so in five posts I will give you it.

[Harrycombs]

To clear this up, standardized tests are not naturally oppressive but they are oppressive on how they are being used.



They are definitely being use ineffectively, but I doubt they are trying to oppress kids through testing.



How many tests and what tests are you talking about? When you read the article you can see that they boycotted the tests after having to take multiple tests, not the once every two year standardized test I'm sure you have taken.



I have already taken three standardized tests from the state in the past week, and I will have one more tomorrow. We have about 4 every year in all 4 of our core subjects (history/civics, math, science, English).



In the article it says that they are tired of being treated as test dummies. I honestly don't know what all this means, but it seems like they are being used to see what questions are good or not. I don't know if funding has to do with this though.


In this state, some of the questions are tested by including them in the tests, but not having them count. I can only relate this to my experience, but I doubt they are purposefully trying to take advantage of inner city kids.



The educational system naturally favors rich suburban kids, making it oppressive.


Thats correct. But where do the corporations oppressing them come in?:confused:

Our education system is messed up, but what the kids are trying to get rid of don't make sense. Instead of getting rid of testing, they should be trying to help get their schools more funding so they can do a better job teaching them. Then the schools will naturally do better on tests. The system of how the schools are funded is oppressive, not the testing its self. Standardized testing is good, because it helps have a scale on which to rate schools within the state.

[Mariner's Revenge]

They are definitely being use ineffectively, but I doubt they are trying to oppress kids through testing.
The problem with a lot of institutionalized oppressive doctrines is that it is sometimes impossible to tell what the true intentions are. The wall Israel is building around Palestine can be seen as a way to oppress Palestinians by cutting them off to the rest of the world and a legitimate means of safety. I am not going to say that state politicians are intentionally trying to oppress inner city kids but I wouldn't put it past them.


I have already taken three standardized tests from the state in the past week, and I will have one more tomorrow. We have about 4 every year in all 4 of our core subjects (history/civics, math, science, English).Yes, this is one of our misunderstandings. The way the article is written kind of implies that these kids have taken numerous standardized tests throughout the year and not just the one every four years that you are currently taking. I do not know for sure though.


Thats correct. But where do the corporations oppressing them come in?:confused:Corporations most likely play a behind the scenes part to most of the oppression that comes within the system with special interests groups and such. I am not that knowledgeable in that subject so I can't go much more detail into that and what I would imagine is happening.


Our education system is messed up, but what the kids are trying to get rid of don't make sense. Instead of getting rid of testing, they should be trying to help get their schools more funding so they can do a better job teaching them. Then the schools will naturally do better on tests. The system of how the schools are funded is oppressive, not the testing its self. Standardized testing is good, because it helps have a scale on which to rate schools within the state.The article never stated that the kids are trying to get rid of all standardized testing, just the amount of standardized tests they are taking.

[Mariner's Revenge]

Harrycombs, as promised.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/American-Apartheid-Education1sep05.htm

I apologize for the double post.

[redSHARP]

son of a fuck! if 8th graders can organize then there is hope!

[Harrycombs]

The problem with a lot of institutionalized oppressive doctrines is that it is sometimes impossible to tell what the true intentions are. The wall Israel is building around Palestine can be seen as a way to oppress Palestinians by cutting them off to the rest of the world and a legitimate means of safety. I am not going to say that state politicians are intentionally trying to oppress inner city kids but I wouldn't put it past them.

Intentions are hard to see, but I doubt that these people have been bought out by corporations.




Yes, this is one of our misunderstandings. The way the article is written kind of implies that these kids have taken numerous standardized tests throughout the year and not just the one every four years that you are currently taking. I do not know for sure though.
You misread me, I take 4 every year, not one every 4 years. Our entire curriculum is based around these tests at the end of the years.



Corporations most likely play a behind the scenes part to most of the oppression that comes within the system with special interests groups and such. I am not that knowledgeable in that subject so I can't go much more detail into that and what I would imagine is happening.
Once again, I doubt this would be happening at local and state levels. Its the federal government that is usually the most corrupt, and for states usually only the judicial branch is corrupt. I doubt they would be trying to oppress kids and limit their education, seeing that this is controlled by the state and local level. That would mean they would have to own not only people in state govt, but in local govt too. A lot of people would have to be on the pay roll:rolleyes:



The article never stated that the kids are trying to get rid of all standardized testing, just the amount of standardized tests they are taking.I don't mind that entirely, but I think there are much better demands that would help their education system than just lowering the amount of tests, and I think the corporations don't have much, if anything, to do with the amount tests they are taking.

I'm reading the article now, by the way.

[Mariner's Revenge]

So this is boiling down to how much control do corporations have on our school system. I have no seen any hard proof either way but I would not be surprised with either answer. I'm not big on conspiracy theories and thinking that corporations are trying to control the world and brainwash everyone but corporations will go to any length to make a profit and if that means infiltrating the education system, they will do it.

[redSHARP]

So this is boiling down to how much control do corporations have on our school system. I have no seen any hard proof either way but I would not be surprised with either answer. I'm not big on conspiracy theories and thinking that corporations are trying to control the world and brainwash everyone but corporations will go to any length to make a profit and if that means infiltrating the education system, they will do it.

just look at a math text book. one question would involve candy, and there you go you see M&M's and Hershey being used for the problem with out be named. that is subtle and it is cheap space for a company to buy.

[bobroberts]

These tests are a sick joke. If a school underperforms, it's funding gets cut, which either forces them to teach only to the test to try and get scores up, or go further down the spiral and not be able to adequately teach the kids anything. Nevermind the horrible conditions and stresses the poorer kids are subjected to at home, like malnutrition, and financial predators.

[RaiseYourVoice]

I am torn on this. Standardized tests(SAT/ACT) are useful because it prevents dumb kids in easy schools from taking my spot in college. The star tests are a waste though.
OH NOES MY PRIVILEGES! Shocking that "dumb" kids would want to take your place! Next is poor people wanting control of the means of production... Most be stopped in its beginnings!

I have only attended one year in American highschools but my experience was that of course the teaching is build on cooperate interests. Apart from of course the school system being bases in a racist society. Education depends on class, race, sex and how much you "fit in" not on how smart and hard working you are. Standardised test are of course not everything there is to the oppressive education system, but its a means of keeping the schools in line.

This isn't of course a communist uprising, it's people feeling the pressure of this competition-based system and rebelling against it. I find it funny though that self-proclaimed revolutionary feel the need to judge this from their armchair in front of the computer. Communists should not debate above the working class, but rather get involved in this struggle, show why this is not random pressure but the result of a class-society. We should radicalise this struggle and try to gain power for our movement.

[Plagueround]

I find it funny though that self-proclaimed revolutionary feel the need to judge this from their armchair in front of the computer.

I find it funny that this constantly gets brought up as if the people on this site are only on this site and NOT doing anything else. It's basically a reiteration of the "You're a fat nerd in your mom's basement" insults that float around the internet. Then again, I was admittedly disappointed in the people that dismissed these kids and I agree with the rest of your points.

[RaiseYourVoice]

I find it funny that this constantly gets brought up as if the people on this site are only on this site and NOT doing anything else. It's basically a reiteration of the "You're a fat nerd in your mom's basement" insults that float around the internet. Then again, I was admittedly disappointed in the people that dismissed these kids and I agree with the rest of your points.
Maybe I missphrased I didn't mean that everyone is doing nothing but sitting in front of their computer. Actually people might or might not do something in real life, that doesn't change the fact they are debating above real life struggle, seemingly from an outside position. We should start of where people feel oppression and progress from there, not criticize when people don't fullfill our standards.

[Colonello Buendia]

this may not be a protest led by prominent leftist political minds, but christ is it important. it shows that critical thinking can have a positive effect on people and can give them the strength to protest. I think this may be a small blip in the overall scheme of things but it is also essentialy a good thing