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MaxB
14th September 2002, 17:24
Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa
By Keith Richburg (December 2, 2000)

Excerpts from Out of America - A Black Man Confronts Africa:

Before my arrival in Africa, I had spent four years reporting from southeast Asia. What I found in Asia was a region of amazing economic dynamism, a place largely defined by more than a decade of steady growth and development, vastly improved living standards, and expanded opportunities. Almost all of the Southeast Asian countries had risen from poverty to relative prosperity, creating huge and stable middle classes and entering the first tier of newly industrialized economies.

Why has East Asia emerged as the model for economic success, while Africa has seen mostly poverty, hunger, and economies propped up by foreign aid? Why are East Asians now expanding their telecommunications capabilities when in most of Africa it's still hard to make a phone call next door? Why are the leaders of Southeast Asia negotiating ways to ease trade barriers and create a free-trade zone, while Africans still levy some of the most prohibitive tariffs on earth, even for interregional trade? . . . .


It's an ugly truth, but it needs to be laid out here, because for too long now Africa's failings have been hidden behind a veil of excuses and apologies. . . .


Talk to me about Africa's legacy of European colonialism, and I'll give you Malaysia and Singapore, ruled by the British and occupied by Japan during World War II. Or Indonesia, exploited by the Dutch for over three hundred years. And let's toss in Vietnam, a French colony later divided between North and South, with famously tragic consequences. Like Africa, most Asian countries only achieved true independence in the postwar years; unlike the Africans, the Asians knew what to do with it.

Talk to me about the problem of tribalism in Africa, about different ethnic and linguistic groups having been lumped together by Europeans inside artificial national borders. Then I'll throw back at you Indonesia, some 13,700 scattered islands comprising more than 360 distinct tribes and ethnic groups and a mix of languages and religions.

Now talk to me about some African countries' lack of natural resources, or their reliance on single commodities, and I'll ask you to account for tiny Singapore, an island city-state with absolutely no resources -- with a population barely large enough to sustain an independent nation. Singapore today is one of the world's most successful economies.

I used to bring up the question of Asia's success wherever I traveled around Africa, to see how the Africans themselves -- government officials, diplomats, academics -- would explain their continent's predicament. What I got was defensiveness, followed by anger, and then accusations that I did not understand the history. And then I got a long list of excuses. I was told about the Cold War, how the United States and the Soviet Union played out their superpower rivalry through proxy wars in Africa, which prolonged the continent's suffering. And I would respond that the Cold War's longest-running and costliest conflicts took place not in Africa but in Korea and Vietnam; now tell me which continent was the biggest playing field for superpower rivalry.

When the talk turns to corruption -- official, top-level plunder -- then at last we are moving closer to brass tacks. Corruption is the cancer eating at the heart of the African state. It is what sustains Africa's strongmen in power, and the money they pilfer, when spread generously throughout the system, is what allows them to continue to command allegiance long after their last shreds of legitimacy are gone.

Of course, there's corruption in East Asia, too. One watchdog group ranked Indonesia as the world's most corrupt country, and Hong Kong risk consultants have placed it third in Asia, behind only Communist China and Vietnam. Yet Korea is an economic superpower, Indonesia has reduced poverty more per year for the last quarter century than any other developing country on earth, and Thailand, Vietnam, and China have all been posting annual growth rates of about 8 to 10 percent. . . .

Instead of straight talk about Africa, you're more likely to get doublespeak, apologies, excuses -- and above all, hypocrisy. It's one of the things I found most frustrating about Africa, the unwillingness of even some of the most seasoned academics and "Africa experts" to give me their honest, coldhearted, unsentimental assessment of the continent and its problems. When it came to discussing the ruthlessness of the dictators, the difficulty of democracy finding a foothold, the ever-present problem of tribalism, Africa has consistently been held to a double standard, an "African standard." There's a reluctance to push too hard, too fast for reform. There is a tendency not to want to criticize too openly, too harshly.

The reason, of course, is that Africans are black. Too much criticism from white countries in the West comes dangerously close to sounding racist. And African leaders seem willing enough to play that card, constantly raising the specter of "neocolonialism." Most Africans were born in independent black countries, but their leaders still harp about colonialism the way black America's self-described "leaders" like to talk about slavery and Jim Crow. Th ere's another similarity, too. Black African leaders talk about foreign aid as if they're entitled to it -- it's something that is due to Africa, with no strings attached -- the same way many American blacks see government assistance programs as a kind of entitlement of birth. In both cases, you're left with black people wallowing in a safety net of dependency...

antieverything
14th September 2002, 21:18
MaxB, didn't you learn your lesson last time?

This is a mass of stupid bullshit written by a person who doesn't have any idea why Africa's economies are ravaged...where do the profits of Africa's industries go?

Capitalist Imperial
14th September 2002, 21:36
Quote: from antieverything on 9:18 pm on Sep. 14, 2002
MaxB, didn't you learn your lesson last time?

This is a mass of stupid bullshit written by a person who doesn't have any idea why Africa's economies are ravaged...where do the profits of Africa's industries go?

That is your best response, antieverything?

you'll have to do better than that

It sounds like this article makes a lot of sense, and you just can't formulate a legitimate response

Frosty
14th September 2002, 22:02
maxb: why do you call this "facts the lefties hate"? Why would i hate these, as you see it, facts?

some things i would like to talk about to the guy you are quoting (again you just quote others):
*aren't the african countries exploited by the western world, while asia has industry on its own?
*isn't africa troubled by "unstable" climate, with some years being extremely dry (=famine), and some years when the whole countryside is flooded?
*africa has been a politically unstable continent for a long time. don't you think this has ANY impact?



the economic growth in asia, with heavy industrialization, more traffic, and more demand for energy, has caused some severe pollution. On certain days, people in the larger cities have to wear protective masks, and a cloud of pollution is hanging over asia.
People are still being exploited (note: i'm not saying ALL!), and there are still poverty even in the mentioned countries.

And again: why do you post this as an attack on leftists?

new democracy
14th September 2002, 22:24
asia is so better!? more than fifty percent of thailand population is working at agriculture!!!!!! suffinar said that in indonesia lot of people live in extreme poverty, singapore success economically but the regime is dictatorial(you have to pay fine for chewing gum!!!!) and oren nahari(israeli cappie)said that singapore economical success have a price: the lack of personal freedom. pakistan is practically a feudal state and the same goes to bangladesh, i don't need to mention india, nepal is completely corrupt and feudal, most of bhutan population working in agriculture, even before the communist coup and the civil war afghanistan was undeveloped, cambodia laos and vietnam were not an economic success before the wars and communist take overs

new democracy
14th September 2002, 23:10
Quote: from Frosty on 10:02 pm on Sep. 14, 2002
maxb: why do you call this "facts the lefties hate"? Why would i hate these, as you see it, facts?

some things i would like to talk about to the guy you are quoting (again you just quote others):
*aren't the african countries exploited by the western world, while asia has industry on its own?
*isn't africa troubled by "unstable" climate, with some years being extremely dry (=famine), and some years when the whole countryside is flooded?
*africa has been a politically unstable continent for a long time. don't you think this has ANY impact?



the economic growth in asia, with heavy industrialization, more traffic, and more demand for energy, has caused some severe pollution. On certain days, people in the larger cities have to wear protective masks, and a cloud of pollution is hanging over asia.
People are still being exploited (note: i'm not saying ALL!), and there are still poverty even in the mentioned countries.

And again: why do you post this as an attack on leftists?


Completely agree.

(Edited by new democracy at 9:35 pm on Dec. 21, 2002)

antieverything
15th September 2002, 20:02
I guess I didn't make my point very clear.

All of Africa's industry is owned by Europeans who exploit their African workers. What would the economies of the middle east be like if we controlled the oil supplies?

new democracy
15th September 2002, 20:07
and what about the philipins? their situation is so great? and MaxB, i saw you reply to a thread only once. you start lot's of threads but never post in the same thread again. stop posting racist shit.

antieverything
15th September 2002, 20:09
Yeah, I assume that what the guy who wrote this is getting at is that Afrikans are inferior...that guy must have a serious inferiority complex.

new democracy
15th September 2002, 20:48
MaxB, you are condeming communism for being the "same" as facism but than again you are calling blacks inferior. BIG CONTRADICTION!!!!


(Edited by new democracy at 9:39 pm on Dec. 21, 2002)

Guest
15th September 2002, 21:23
Fucking idiot max B!

Lardlad95
16th September 2002, 04:54
Max B you idiot Asia had six different countries in ruling south eastern countries. Two were US and Great Britian both which were liberal and eventually planned for their release to independance.

Also please tell me at what time were south eastern asians made slaves during colonialism in South Eastern Asia.





"Liberal colonial governments. The two liberal colonial governments were Great Britain and the United States.

These two governments maintained a good record with respect to the rule of law, civil liberties, political participation, open education, and economic opportunity. Both were willing to allow their colonies to become independent and had begun to prepare them for future independence before the Second World War began.

Repressive colonial governments. The Spanish, Dutch, and French had a very different attitude toward their colonies.

They generally placed the European in a superior legal position, and limited civil liberties. Political activities were discouraged. Access to modern education was restricted in numbers and to certain social groups. Censorship was common. Southeast Asians were not encouraged to engage in modern economic activities. And there were major problems of corruption in the Spanish and French colonial governments."


"Colonialism.

A racially based (or racist) system of political, economic, and cultural domination forcibly imposed by a technologically superior foreign minority on an indigenous majority.
It relied on "scientific" assumptions about White superiority.
It assumed that the nation state and an industrial capital economy were the most advanced forms of human organization.

It assumed an innate moral inferiority on the part of Africans.

It depended on economic exploitation and political oppression.



There were several different kinds of colonial organization:
White settler colonies (Kenya and Southern Rhodesia [Zimbabwe]).
Indirect rule colonies (Nigeria and Botswana).

Direct rule colonies (Senegal).

The direct and indirect rule systems relied heavily on traditional African rulers.

The White settler colonies, especially, established new traditions--like the gentleman farmer identity for lower class immigrants--to promote self-esteem and respect. They established an elite caste system.

White settler politics were organized to perpetuate their political and economic supremacy.
In these colonies, there was a virtual master-slave relationship between Whites and Blacks.

The Whites expropriated vast areas of the best farm land.

The colonies, whatever the form of governance, were essentially extensions of the metropolitan state.

They were not organized to develop (even over time) independent African nation-states.



The degree of colonization differed from place to place. Some Africans were affected lightly. The colonizers were limited to small numbers of administrators, traders, and missionaries. In Northern Nigeria, there was one white administrator for every 100,000 Africans.


Only 5% of the Africans were educated in missionary schools. They received a western style education, not in order to become leaders of their own countries, but to assume subordinate positions in the colonial system.


The Europeans established an export economy that extracted raw materials and returned manufactured goods.
Trade was oriented toward the metropole. The economic advantages accrued mainly to Europeans.
This economy developed at the expense of indigenous populations. Their land was expropriated. They were often forced into wage labor. African farmers could not compete with the large commercial White farms.

It created a dependency which in most countries still persists. Thus, the term "neo-colonialism."



The legacy of colonialism continues to contribute significantly to the instability and fragility of the African states might be summarized "

new democracy
7th November 2002, 17:14
MaxB, your argument is shit. here is a story that will help you understand how bad the conditions in east asia. i live in haifa. every time i go to my home after school i see many migrant workers, mainly from asia. they usually help old people to live, or doing other shitty job, and don't get a lot of money for their work. some of them live in inhuman conditions. and you know why they work here? because compared to what they have at home, their current situation is BETTER. so don't talk like east asia is such a success.

(Edited by new democracy at 9:38 pm on Dec. 21, 2002)