What do you see in the flag?

[Field Marshal]

What I see is 50 pieces of shrapnel bursting out in the blue skies by the remnants of a cluster bomb that this government have inhumanely dropped on so many people. I see the streaks of blood running rampant everywhere on this small flag, this small earth. I see the this ostensible whiteness, and cleanliness of everything that I have already seen. I know who is trying to clean and cover the blood with the pure and clean white, and I also know that their effort is in vain.

[American Kid]

Yet it's the most powerful nation. Go figure.

*ahem*

The fifty stars are for each state.

The thirteen stripes are the original colonies.

If you don't like it, leave. Or storm the capital with torches and pitchforks. C'mon! You can do it!

-AK

[Field Marshal]

Figure out what? You still haven't picked up that history book have you haha.

If you want to be the patriot American Kid and you want to know why this nation is the strongest, it is because it was our destiny. Our Manifest Destiny. War War and more War.

If I don't like it, I should leave? How does that solve anything? How will that help the millions of people who are not as fortunate in this country than others? How is that even American to say? You think if all those people who didnt' like the US Government: Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Huey P. Newton, Abbie Hoffman (I'm studying the 60s) and so many others, if they had all just left because they didnt' like it, what would this nation still be? That is the most unamerican thing I have ever heard "American" Kid.

[American Kid]

I'll concede that you shouldn't leave because you don't like it.

Hey, I don't like it that much either, believe it or not. I'm not an idiot, I know shit is fucked up. It's just how you put it, Field Marshall, it's scary :) It's like dude, "blood?" Yikes. It just seems to me your sooooooo angry.

Anyway. Don't leave. I enjoy this too much.

-AK

[Field Marshal]

Of course I am angry. I have seen so much, past and present, that is just making me go insane. This government controls the fate of all the others. This government masquerades in the US and around the world claiming it is a peaceful nation who is God's country and is pure and innocent.

Bullshit political rhetoric control the minds of so many in this country. This government disregards world opinion of it's actions and going to end up destroying the world before it even begins to think about the ones who are dying by it's own blood-red hands.

You're damn right I'm pissed. But stick to the discussion, if not, start another thread.

[American Kid]

I did stick to the discussion. I was criticizing your means of criticizing our country.

I think it's excessive. Dude, don't go insane over this shit.

I'm interested in how you go about in your daily life to fight such "injustice"? What organizations do you belong to, etc? Just curious.

-AK

You shouldn't be so mad.

[canikickit]

It really depends on the situation in which I see the flag. I'm not American so my opinion isn't as relevant. From a personal standpoint the Irish flag is something I love. And although i don't agree with a lot of the shit our gov't does I still love the falg because it represents a hell of a lot more than the few who are voted in.

I don't really think I would feel the same way about the American flag. When I read about this manifest destiny shit, I feel deep anger in the pit of my stomach. It is hypocritisism of the highest degree. I am not sure what the current day opinion on this manifest destiny shit is today. But I see little difference between the American invasion of Mexico in 1846 and the German invasion of Poland in 1939.

There is much debate over this war, it would seem, and having done a bit of research I think both Nations were equally culpable. They should have left Texas alone, self determination and all that shit.

[Field Marshal]

American Kid, I love this country, I hate this government that exploits it.

Cankickit, what country are you from? And your opinion matters just as much as anyone elses, you are human just like the rest of us.

[Field Marshal]

I work for the International Action Center, volunteer for Habitat for Humanity. I help organize rallies and educate people whenever I can.

[American Kid]

Thank you. Now why are you called Field Marshall? It makes you sound like some nazi bastard in the desert with a pair of binoculars strapped to your hat.

Curious still.

-AK

[canikickit]

a pair of binoculars strapped to your hat

That's a pretty funny image. Jesus. I'm lauhging my ass off at that shit.

I'm Irish. Is that not obvious from my post? read it again.

[Field Marshal]

I used to be into Field Marshal (one L) Erwin Rommel and war in general. Not anymore though, I'm a hardcore pacifist now.

yeah I re-read the post, your coutnry's flag might represent more than the few who are voted in, but it is the U.S. government and not the flag that represents the country. The flag is just a fabric whore for the government.

[boadicea88]

I see alternately stripes of blood with white bullets, or jail bars and barbed or razor wire.

[Field Marshal]

With the red and white stripes, I can also see that we create our own fires, and we keep trying to put them out. I still see those blazing fires...

[Hayduke]

http://terroristsupply.com/store/shirts/images/dept1/01item.jpg

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Field Marshal on 3:16 am on Sep. 14, 2002
Of course I am angry. I have seen so much, past and present, that is just making me go insane. This government controls the fate of all the others. This government masquerades in the US and around the world claiming it is a peaceful nation who is God's country and is pure and innocent.

Bullshit political rhetoric control the minds of so many in this country. This government disregards world opinion of it's actions and going to end up destroying the world before it even begins to think about the ones who are dying by it's own blood-red hands.

You're damn right I'm pissed. But stick to the discussion, if not, start another thread.


Contrary to you claim, FM, this government does not "control the minds" of the people. Actually, it is nations like china and the former soviet union, or cuba (not that anyone can afford TV's there) that do that with state controlled media and rampant censorship. For instance, china finally ended a ban on the the search engine "google"

"google", for petes sake, china denied its citizenry "google"!

THAT IS TRYING TO CONTROL PEOPLES MINDS, BY DEFINITION DUDE. LIMITING AND FILTERING INFORMATION, AND PROVIFDING NO ALTERNATIVE SOURCE FOR SAID INFORMATION.

Here in the US, we have freedom of information, and we can draw said information from a variety of sources. Anywhere from good ol' corporate media monoliths to small mom & pop local daily newspapers, the internet, radio (corporate or NPR) PBS, cable, your local public library, the library of congress (which supposedly catalogs every book ever wiritten, a real lack of info, huh?)

you get the picture.

So, the claim that the US government brainwashes its people is just an ignorant statement.

Now, I agree that there are people who believe anything they see on TV,and they are imbeciles, I concede.

However, that is a condition that anyone on earth is susceptible to, and is more likely to be manipulated in nations with state controlled media and censorship.

The USA is not one of these nations.

So, FM, in seems that you claim runs absolutely conta-freakin'-dictory to american freedoms and information availability.

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 10:35 pm on Sep. 14, 2002)

[Frosty]

Quote: from Field Marshal on 3:48 am on Sep. 14, 2002
What I see is 50 pieces of shrapnel bursting out in the blue skies by the remnants of a cluster bomb that this government have inhumanely dropped on so many people. I see the streaks of blood running rampant everywhere on this small flag, this small earth. I see the this ostensible whiteness, and cleanliness of everything that I have already seen. I know who is trying to clean and cover the blood with the pure and clean white, and I also know that their effort is in vain.

Agree, but i see the white color as the racist and superstition tendencies too.

Even though american mass media *is* independent, they don't really seem to deliver un(government-)biased information. Of course, if the washington post or some major tv channel started spreading anti-patriotic stuff they would get into trouble, 'cause people wouldn't like buying unpatriotic news, and corporations wouldn't want to be associated with unpatrioticness of the samereason. That's how the system works. And i haven't mentioned lobbyism, so i'm mentioning that now

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Frosty on 10:50 pm on Sep. 14, 2002

Quote: from Field Marshal on 3:48 am on Sep. 14, 2002
What I see is 50 pieces of shrapnel bursting out in the blue skies by the remnants of a cluster bomb that this government have inhumanely dropped on so many people. I see the streaks of blood running rampant everywhere on this small flag, this small earth. I see the this ostensible whiteness, and cleanliness of everything that I have already seen. I know who is trying to clean and cover the blood with the pure and clean white, and I also know that their effort is in vain.

Agree, but i see the white color as the racist and superstition tendencies too.

Even though american mass media *is* independent, they don't really seem to deliver un(government-)biased information. Of course, if the washington post or some major tv channel started spreading anti-patriotic stuff they would get into trouble, 'cause people wouldn't like buying unpatriotic news, and corporations wouldn't want to be associated with unpatrioticness of the samereason. That's how the system works. And i haven't mentioned lobbyism, so i'm mentioning that now

even if we concede that this is true,then there is still pbs, npr, local independent papers, the internet, and public libraries

[Field Marshal]

you have managed to twist my words Capitalist. I never said that the government controls the minds of the people, I said that the political rhetoric does. And there is a difference, however small, between the two.

The a vast majority of citizens of the United States are not as educated as citizens in other countries. The people here tend to believe what the media and government (same thing) tells them. It's important to know who runs the shows that you see on the television. And it's important to know what their orders are from the government.

It's a very difficult thing to explain, the mass-media deception of people in the states, but easy to understand.

You have to agree with me that the corporate media does filter a lot. This should be self evident.

[Field Marshal]

The same companies who make the missiles to be used on Iraq are the same companies who run some television shows. What do you think their talk shows will be about? Probably war war war, support the war.

People on T.V. are claiming that Osama bin Laden is responsible for the attack on 9/11. People on T.V. are claiming that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. There is no proof for either of these, and when you tell people the wrong information, you are purposely misleading them.

[Capitalist Imperial]

"The a vast majority of citizens of th



From FM...

"The vast majority United States are not as educated as citizens in other countries."

Percentage of americans witrh 4 year degrees: 24%, worlds highest percentage.

"The people here tend to believe what the media and government (same thing) tells them..."

But FM, You don't seem to understand that they are not the same thing, they are two entirely distinct and different entities, often with ajendas running contrary to each other. I think you have us confused with communist/socialist nations, where the government and single media source actually is the same. How is PBS, or NPR, or "the Mudville Times", or NBC, controlled by the government?

"It's important to know who runs the shows that you see on the television. And it's important to know what their orders are from the government."

You must have schizofrenia, because you sound paranoid-delusional.

Or you just don't understand how American media works.

Field-Marshall, the US government does not give orders to the US media. They are independent entities free of government control (except of course taxes and the FCC, but the FCC is just there to enforce compliance in the technical and legal aspects of the media, not to change information or censor anything).

That is the point of "Freedom of the Press". It is the 1st amendment of the constitution, sir.

"It's a very difficult thing to explain, the mass-media deception of people in the states, but easy to understand."

Its difficult to explain because it is untrue, FM.

There a lot of idiotrs who don't get all of the coprrect or needed information because all they watch is American TV, which I agree can be americentric and incomplete, but that does not mean it is controlled by the government.

We have much more freedom of information than communist.socialist states, FM, you have to understand this.

[Exploited Class]

>>"The vast majority United States are not as educated as citizens in other countries."

>Percentage of americans witrh 4 year degrees: 24%, worlds highest percentage.

Actually according to the U.S. Census poll of 1999, only 17 Percent of people over the age of 25 had obtained a bachelor's degree. 7.5% had an associates, 33% had only a high school education and 16% hadn't graduated high school. Masters were 5.6% and Doctrates 1.2%.

>>"It's important to know who runs the shows that you see on the television. And it's important to know what their orders are from the government."

>You must have schizofrenia, because you sound paranoid-delusional.

>Or you just don't understand how American media works.

C.I., want to stop throwing around phsychology terms that you don't understand, and using them as attack methods? That is about the weakest way that a person can debate somebody, just using general "Crazy terms" against you opponent. "You must have schizofrenia, because you sound paranoid-delusional." Because of all a sudden people (generally ages 40 and above) who are diagnoised with paranoid-delusional are automaticly also schizophrenic. Why don't you just go ahead and rewrite the DSMIV as well while your at it.

I am going to say that you obviously don't know how the American Media works. It is controlled not by the government directly, but by the wealthiest 1% of this nation. The figures I will be throwing out are from 1986.
it has gotten a lot worse since.

General Electric (NBC)- toal assets $34,591,000,000
Profits after taxes - $2,492,000,000
Total Revenue - 36,725,000,000

CBS - $3,370,000,000
370,000,000
4,754,000,000

Westinghouse - $1,145,000,000
100,000,000
1,215,000,000

Granted now westinghouse and CBS is the same company so your guess is as good as mine how much they have now.

Washington Post - 1,145,000,000
100,000,000
1,215,000,000

That is just four of the big names.
No they are not directly controlled by the government in some kind of conspiracy theory hatched up in the back of a mail room. But they are huge multi-billion dollar companies. Ran by the rich controlling class, for the rich controlling class. They are never ever going to publish a single news story that goes against thier current strangle hold on this country. Why in the world would any of them do so and risk not thousands, not millions not even 100's of millions, but BILLIONS of dollars? The truth does not matter to people who have that much control.These are people who have invested heavily into arms production, agriculture, timber, mining, shipping, oil, you name it and they have a very large and considerable stake invested in it. It goes against everything these boards, investors, CEOs and top employess, stand for to lose to tell the truth or not slant the media in thier direction. They count and bank on it literally. It would be naive to think that this ruling class would be different than any other previous ruling class, and would use ethics and good judgment in news reporting so they wouldn't lose thier investments.

>>Field-Marshall, the US government does not give orders to the US media. They are independent entities free of government control (except of course taxes and the FCC, but the FCC is just there to enforce compliance in the technical and legal aspects of the media, not to change information or censor anything).

The government does not run the media, that of course is true. It has no stake to, that would be backwards. The media dictates the control of the government. The media dictates what it wants and does not want to produce and how to present that which it does produce. It can so in small scale, using terms like Defense Spending vs. an agressive term like Military Spending. It can do so by burying news stories to the rear of the paper or not printing or running with news stories at all. Do you honestly think that GE who has a lot invested in military spending is going to run with stories that are anti-military spending. Remeber the Government draws up the budget, then spends it in the private sector, where investors play. GE runs about 20 stories about how much our country's defenses are inadequate, public becomes worried, it becomes a campaign concern, then the government drops 400 billion in one fiscal year into the private sector, purchasing heavily from Boeing, making Boeings stocks go up, making the boards of GE richer on their investments.

>>That is the point of "Freedom of the Press". It is the 1st amendment of the constitution, sir.

Freedom of the press is only for those who own the press. Which has been my point through out this whole rebuttal. Just because it is mandated in the constitution does not mean it is automaticly carried out. The FCC does not deal solely on technical issues of broadcasting. It should have been a blind and deaf man sitting in a room making sure that frequencies don't bleed over but it isn't. Just recently Collin Powell's son who is the director of the FCC had captial gains in AOL Time Warner. He is also breaking down mergers and promises to make them faster allowing for an even smaller group of controlled media outlets. http://www.fair.org/activism/fcc-giants.html
He is also breaking down the rules for how much they can own in any one area. Soon our news for sure will only come from the rich, including local news.

>>We have much more freedom of information than >>communist.socialist states, FM, you have to >>understand this.

Its about Par. Our news is all centralized and in the hands of the extremely wealthy who have investments strewn all over and into everything. They publish the news to protect those sources of revenue and investments.
Thos other countries you speak of do the same thing, but they do it to protect their country and to keep it going. It is a defense to our propaganda. There is no bad guys here, they are both doing it for the same basic ideas but for different reasons. Us to protect our money and investements, them to keep up the moral of their country and ideals while being bombarded by the west. They are seeking to preserve their element.

[Field Marshal]

Capitalist, you are clever. You mask your appearance with the US flag, but I clearly remember you are the one with the darth vader avatar. You can't fool me, you want to take me on the dark side!

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

[American Kid]

Field Marshall you actually believe Osama had nothing to do with 9-11? Didn't you see the video of him talking to the shiek-guy from Saudi Arabia about how "some of the brothers did not know it was a suicide mission" and being amused about it? Etc, etc........

Who the fuck do you think did it? Monnaco?

-AK

[Field Marshal]

That's a good point American Kid, which can help me make a point about the mind control issue.

At first, the press wanted to air the entire Osama tape (the first one), but then the government came in and told them what to show and what not to show (for "fear" of terrorist signals). I was fortunate to watch the entire session of all the tapes with Osama's message in it. I have read the Al-Jazeera (sp?) interviews with Osama bin Laden, and I am not surprised at all.

Osama has denied any link to the attacks. The US government knows this, so if you go back and watch Bush speak about Osama, he cleary says: "He's crazy, he's evil, he praises the attacks on the World Trade Center."

Truer words have never been spoken by the goernment. Osama bin Laden has never admitted to having anything to do with the attacks, even with his last interview with Al-Jazeera, he is asked:
Q: Did you have anything to do with what happend on September 11th?
Osama: I have already told you and others, I did not have anything to do with what happend that day, but I praise their actions against the United States and I support more attacks."

He never admitted to doing it. He's probably dead anyways.

[American Kid]

Ramzi Binalshibh has. And Osama is guilty, his fingerprints are all over this mess.

As far as him being dead, again, I've read about 20 different things on this too. I'm always amused about the story of how there was 2 dialysis machines in Afganistan. One was the public's, the other was Osama's.

Class act. But yes, Amen, with any grace, he either got his head knocked off by shrapnel, or his kidney's withered and died on him.

Either way, he'd be in God's hands now. No one can save him.

-AK

[Field Marshal]

I dont' know much about Ramzi, but show me Osama's fingerprints. You won't find any.

[Goldfinger]

AK, CI, I've noticed that you brag about USA being a powerful nation. What's so good about that? Nazi Germany was powerful, Soviet was powerful, I hope you don't look up to those nations just because of that! By the way, could you please tell me what the world would be like if the whole world belonged to USA?

[Frosty]

Quote: from Apocalypse When on 2:00 pm on Sep. 15, 2002
By the way, could you please tell me what the world would be like if the whole world belonged to USA?

There are two alternatives:
1) everything would be like it is now, just with a few usa-friendly dictators instead of usa-unfriendly ones.
(point here is: the usa already have control)
2) after a few years, the world would be torn apart from over-exploitment of all natural resources.

And btw, good post exploitedclass

[Field Marshal]

that is true, the whole world belongs to the US government.

[boadicea88]

Quote: from D DAY on 10:47 am on Sep. 14, 2002
http://terroristsupply.com/store/shirts/images/dept1/01item.jpg


Exactly.

Amen to Field Marshal.

[KickMcCann]

A flag is an ambiguous symbol. It all depends who is looking at it, it doesn't really mean anything. The American Flag can be seen by some as a symbol of hope and freedom, for others a symbol of war and oppression. The Soviet Union's flag can be seen by some as a symbol of workers' rights and popular uprising, other can see it as a symbol of tyranny and oppression.
It's like the age-old question of if the glass is half-empty or half-full. Either way, it is just a glass with some water in it, whatever you make of its existence is up to you.

[Field Marshal]

How, ambiguously said. What do you see in the flag? What do you feel when you wave that flag, or see others waving it, or putting it up on their walls?

[KickMcCann]

I have given up all my worldly possesions and concerns, including the meaning of flags. I am Zen:

http://www.buddhanet.net/lineart/buddhas/images/buddha7.jpg%20

How's that for Ambiguous! Haha!

But honestly, I don't think too much about it, its just a piece of cloth representing a nation. But I suppose it could represent imperfection striving to be perfect. because that's what I think the idea of America means. A nation was started with great ideas and intentions, but those ideas and intentions were forgotten many times through its history, leading to great trajedies and mistakes. But when those ideas and intentions are remembered, great things can happen, as they have before. I guess that's what I think.

[Anonymous]

How about the 'ol stars and bars?

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/Confederate_flag.jpg

[American Kid]

Oh, no.........

That could be "the big one".

Everyone relax. Let's not get "trigger-happy." It's a joke (right?) No need to-

Okay, I'm staying out of this one. Sorry, Dark Cappie!
-AK

[Anonymous]

I only posted the confederate flag for historical purposes. :biggrin:


FLAME ON!!!!

j/k

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 11:44 am on Sep. 17, 2002)

[IHP]

how can anyone have such disrespect. it is incomprehensible.

Wasn't the declaration of independences purpose to enshrine the inalienable rights of man? you as septic tank (australians will understand) would of course believe in this. then to show such a contradictory image to what your "great" nation was built on is total hypocrisy.

to make it worse, you seem proud of with that rediculous gung ho attitude, lose it man, you only make yourself look like an ungrateful, uneducated....american (sorry to all the honest, compassionate americans in this forum)

wake up man.

[mentalbunny]

well i see the flag as symbolising what america SHOULD be. I'll come abck when I ahve more time

[RedCeltic]

Today you see people waving the american flag around everywhere. They put them on their car antenna so that it tears up and litters the side of the roadway... they hang them from their houses all day and all night, even though they aren't a government instilation

They make t-shirts, bikinis, and loli pops out of American flags... and... somehow... these people who degrade the American flag... consider themselves Patriots.

They don't however, stand up and protect our degrading democracy. They don't give a crap that the Bush Administration has made the Bill of Rights a useless doccument.

"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."


- Benjamin Franklin, 1755

Eating an American Flag loli pop doesn't make you a patriot!!

[mentalbunny]

America could be so great, it could have brilliant principles and a society that follows them, but it just doesn't, so I suppose that I see disappointment in the flag. I was in the suburbs of Canterbury the other day and nearly every house in one particular street, and presume other streets as well, had the stars and stripes out, due to 9/11.

america needs turning around, is there anyone brave enough to do it?

[Anonymous]

'What do you see in the American flag?'


Is it some sort of magic eye?

[Guest]

Rumour has it that DC is gay.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 11:55 pm on Sep. 16, 2002
How about the 'ol stars and bars?

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/Confederate_flag.jpg


oh.. BTW DC... That's not the stars and bars... that's the confederate battle flag... This is the Stars and Bars..

http://www.usflag.org/historical/stars.bars.gif

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from mentalbunny on 4:14 pm on Sep. 17, 2002
America could be so great, it could have brilliant principles and a society that follows them, but it just doesn't, so I suppose that I see disappointment in the flag. I was in the suburbs of Canterbury the other day and nearly every house in one particular street, and presume other streets as well, had the stars and stripes out, due to 9/11.

america needs turning around, is there anyone brave enough to do it?


#1 ECONOMY, #1 IN IMMIGRATION, #1 IN TECHNOLOGY, #1 IN INDUSTRY, #1 IN MEDICAL SCIENCE

We must be doing something right.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from exploitedclass on 1:14 am on Sep. 15, 2002
>>"The vast majority United States are not as educated as citizens in other countries."

>Percentage of americans witrh 4 year degrees: 24%, worlds highest percentage.

Actually according to the U.S. Census poll of 1999, only 17 Percent of people over the age of 25 had obtained a bachelor's degree. 7.5% had an associates, 33% had only a high school education and 16% hadn't graduated high school. Masters were 5.6% and Doctrates 1.2%.

>>"It's important to know who runs the shows that you see on the television. And it's important to know what their orders are from the government."

>You must have schizofrenia, because you sound paranoid-delusional.

>Or you just don't understand how American media works.

C.I., want to stop throwing around phsychology terms that you don't understand, and using them as attack methods? That is about the weakest way that a person can debate somebody, just using general "Crazy terms" against you opponent. "You must have schizofrenia, because you sound paranoid-delusional." Because of all a sudden people (generally ages 40 and above) who are diagnoised with paranoid-delusional are automaticly also schizophrenic. Why don't you just go ahead and rewrite the DSMIV as well while your at it.

I am going to say that you obviously don't know how the American Media works. It is controlled not by the government directly, but by the wealthiest 1% of this nation. The figures I will be throwing out are from 1986.
it has gotten a lot worse since.

General Electric (NBC)- toal assets $34,591,000,000
Profits after taxes - $2,492,000,000
Total Revenue - 36,725,000,000

CBS - $3,370,000,000
370,000,000
4,754,000,000

Westinghouse - $1,145,000,000
100,000,000
1,215,000,000

Granted now westinghouse and CBS is the same company so your guess is as good as mine how much they have now.

Washington Post - 1,145,000,000
100,000,000
1,215,000,000

That is just four of the big names.
No they are not directly controlled by the government in some kind of conspiracy theory hatched up in the back of a mail room. But they are huge multi-billion dollar companies. Ran by the rich controlling class, for the rich controlling class. They are never ever going to publish a single news story that goes against thier current strangle hold on this country. Why in the world would any of them do so and risk not thousands, not millions not even 100's of millions, but BILLIONS of dollars? The truth does not matter to people who have that much control.These are people who have invested heavily into arms production, agriculture, timber, mining, shipping, oil, you name it and they have a very large and considerable stake invested in it. It goes against everything these boards, investors, CEOs and top employess, stand for to lose to tell the truth or not slant the media in thier direction. They count and bank on it literally. It would be naive to think that this ruling class would be different than any other previous ruling class, and would use ethics and good judgment in news reporting so they wouldn't lose thier investments.

>>Field-Marshall, the US government does not give orders to the US media. They are independent entities free of government control (except of course taxes and the FCC, but the FCC is just there to enforce compliance in the technical and legal aspects of the media, not to change information or censor anything).

The government does not run the media, that of course is true. It has no stake to, that would be backwards. The media dictates the control of the government. The media dictates what it wants and does not want to produce and how to present that which it does produce. It can so in small scale, using terms like Defense Spending vs. an agressive term like Military Spending. It can do so by burying news stories to the rear of the paper or not printing or running with news stories at all. Do you honestly think that GE who has a lot invested in military spending is going to run with stories that are anti-military spending. Remeber the Government draws up the budget, then spends it in the private sector, where investors play. GE runs about 20 stories about how much our country's defenses are inadequate, public becomes worried, it becomes a campaign concern, then the government drops 400 billion in one fiscal year into the private sector, purchasing heavily from Boeing, making Boeings stocks go up, making the boards of GE richer on their investments.

>>That is the point of "Freedom of the Press". It is the 1st amendment of the constitution, sir.

Freedom of the press is only for those who own the press. Which has been my point through out this whole rebuttal. Just because it is mandated in the constitution does not mean it is automaticly carried out. The FCC does not deal solely on technical issues of broadcasting. It should have been a blind and deaf man sitting in a room making sure that frequencies don't bleed over but it isn't. Just recently Collin Powell's son who is the director of the FCC had captial gains in AOL Time Warner. He is also breaking down mergers and promises to make them faster allowing for an even smaller group of controlled media outlets. http://www.fair.org/activism/fcc-giants.html
He is also breaking down the rules for how much they can own in any one area. Soon our news for sure will only come from the rich, including local news.

>>We have much more freedom of information than >>communist.socialist states, FM, you have to >>understand this.

Its about Par. Our news is all centralized and in the hands of the extremely wealthy who have investments strewn all over and into everything. They publish the news to protect those sources of revenue and investments.
Thos other countries you speak of do the same thing, but they do it to protect their country and to keep it going. It is a defense to our propaganda. There is no bad guys here, they are both doing it for the same basic ideas but for different reasons. Us to protect our money and investements, them to keep up the moral of their country and ideals while being bombarded by the west. They are seeking to preserve their element.



Like I said, our government does not control the media, thanks for the backup.

BTW, paranoid delusion is a major symptom of schizofrenia (just in case you didn't know). Not that it really matters, as my comment was obviously fasicious.

Still, my understanding of psychology is enough to stand by my assesment of paranoid delusion as a symptom of schizofrenia.

[Politrickian]

I see 13 stripes and 50 $ signs in a blue box.

[Field Marshal]

http://www.guerrillanews.com/human_rights/doc716.html

Yeah Jesse Javkson!

Hey Capitalist, did you know that 20 - 30% of the citizens of this "#1" nation are illiterate.

Yeah, we must be doing something right. I think the government is a real fan of Pink Floyd.... "we don't need no education..."

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Guest on 11:32 pm on Sep. 17, 2002
Rumour has it that DC is gay.


No I am not gay, Brian (or whoever the fuck you are).

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 5:21 am on Sep. 18, 2002)

[Anonymous]

"Rumour has it that DC is gay. "

I bet Brian did this only he to make such stupid child acusations like this!

[Guest]

U'll never catch me!
muhahahahaha!


p.s,CI is gay too.

[GuerilleroUrbano]

The American flag really stands for every nation bombed or invaded, forr the blood of young men including El Che's blood ready to combat capitalism whereever it stands out.

[Field Marshal]

It stands for the blood of the people who have been coaxed to fight, forced to fight, and volunteered to fight for the hypocritical politicians in our government.

May they rest in peace now, in their places in those bright stars...