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Binary011
25th May 2008, 18:25
I was in a debate with a friend of mine and he said that "Capitalism is the natural state of human beings, it is the best way to organize society and the most efficient way." Anyone want to provide a rebuttal of this juicy sentiment? (I'm sure there are thousands, share your objections)

gla22
25th May 2008, 18:29
If capitalism is so effective at allocating resources why do millions starve daily while others do not lift a finger and live comfortably?

Binary011
25th May 2008, 18:33
He would then go on to say that "The people at the top worked hard to get there." But that is not necessarily true, people are born there who have rich parents and just leech off society while the working class supports them.

CheGuevaraRage
25th May 2008, 18:41
They say that Capitalism is natural state of being....They only see the rich and prosperus...the poor are invisible...
In capitalsim media are encouraging rivalty and greed (you must have it,be the best...etc...) so by that people are fighting beetwen themselves...Thats no way to survive!!

Kropotesta
25th May 2008, 18:42
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secBcon.html

Kropotesta
25th May 2008, 18:44
A part of a blog I wrote. Aided by the anarchist FAQ.



Capitalism and Individuality
Beens people attack social anarchism as an attempt to destroy individuality, we must ask them what exactly capitalism does to protect individuality. Capitalism aids standardisation which distorts individuality.
Why does capitalism, a idea based on furthering an individuals profit lead to unhappiness- the UK and other enriched capitalist countries often rank low in statistics researching the happiness of populations. there are four reasons for this:

1) capitalism produces a hierarchical system which crushes self-government in many areas of life;
2) there is the lack of community which does not provide the necessary supports for the encouragement of individuality;
3) there is the psychological impact of "individual profit" when it becomes identified purely with monetary gain (as in capitalism);
4) the effects of competition in creating conformity and mindless obedience to
authority.
-The Anarchist FAQ.

Point one, as put by Emma Goldman, under capitalism one, "must sell his [or her] labour" and so their "inclination and judgement are subordinated to the will of a master." This, naturally, represses individual initiative and the skills needed to know and express ones own mind (as she put it, this "condemns millions of people to be mere nonentities, living corpses without originality or power of initiative . . . who pile up mountains of wealth for others and pay for it with a grey, dull and wretched existence for themselves"). "There can be no freedom in the large sense of the word," Goldman stressed, "so long as mercenary and commercial considerations play an important part in the determination of personal conduct."
Kropotkin also states- "obedience towards individuals or metaphysical entities . . . lead to depression of initiative and servility of mind." Thus capitalism can only hinder, and not help, individuality.
Point two has already been gone through, so I shall not repeat myself.
Point three. When an individual or society is completely driven via greed, they will thus sacrifice their own ego because of it, defeating the very object of acquiring things for themselves, thus greed somewhat of a contradiction in itself.
Eric Fromm-
"Selfishness if not identical with self-love but with its very opposite. Selfishness is one kind of greediness. Like all greediness, it contains an insatiability, as a consequence of which there is never any real satisfaction. Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction. . . this type of person is basically not fond of himself, but deeply dislikes himself.
"The puzzle in this seeming contradiction is easy to solve. Selfishness is rooted in this very lack of fondness for oneself. . . He does not have the inner security which can exist only on the basis of genuine fondness and affirmation."
Point four. Competitiveness is often promoted as producing efficiency and so on. However the affects of competition can be devastating to the individual.
"Culture dedicated to creating standardised, specialised, predictable human components could find no better way of grinding them out than by making every possible aspect of life a matter of competition. 'Winning out' in this respect does not make rugged individualists. It shapes conformist robots." George Leonard.
Why?
Competition is based on beating your rivals, people who are doing the same thing as another individual. Despite this, individuality is the most unique thing, "unique characteristics by definition cannot be ranked and participating in the process of ranking demands essential conformity" - Alfie Kohn. To Kohn, through his research on the effects of competition, he concluded that it "encourages rank conformity" as well as undermining the "substantial and authentic kind of individualism" associated by such free thinkers as Thoreau.
Including impoverishing individuality by substituting it for conformity, competition also makes the individual less free thinking, and rebellious as a result.
"Attitude towards authorities and general conduct do count in the kinds of competitions that take place in the office or classroom. If I want to get the highest grades in class, I will not be likely to challenge the teacher's version of whatever topic is being covered. After a while, I may cease to think critically altogether. . . If people tend to 'go along to get along,' there is even more incentive to go along when the goal is to be number one. In the office or factory where co-workers are rivals, beating out the next person for a promotion means pleasing the boss. Competition acts to extinguish the Promethean fire of rebellion."
Competiton turns "life into a series of contests [and] turns us into cautious, obedient people. We do not sparkle as individuals or embrace collective action when we are in a race."
So to conclude, capitalism far from defending individuality, actually places many barriers (mental and physical) upon individuals who attempt to display their own individuality. Anarchists want a society free of capitalism and the state which will allow everyone to realise their own individuality.

Schrödinger's Cat
25th May 2008, 19:01
I was in a debate with a friend of mine and he said that "Capitalism is the natural state of human beings, it is the best way to organize society and the most efficient way." Anyone want to provide a rebuttal of this juicy sentiment? (I'm sure there are thousands, share your objections)

I've always requested one bit of evidence to support such a claim: point to one incident where a state dissolved/fell apart and people organized around capitalist principles. In Spain, Iran, Chile, France, Argentina, Germany, Russia, South Korea, and Ukraine a stateless society brought about socialist organization.

Dros
25th May 2008, 21:32
If capitalism is the natural way to organize society, then why did humanity spend the vast majority (like 99.99%) of its existence in a system other than capitalism?