Faschist, nazi, racist, capitalist, contra-revolutionary: what's the difference.

[GeistDerRevolution]

First of all, I'll admit to having received the large majority of my political education in a heavily left-biased institution. What I've noticed during the course of said education, and later, when reading through leftist material on the internet, is that the enemies of socialism are assigned into one of the above categories (seemingly) at random. Could somebody explain how this works? I'm absolutely against all generalisation and discrimination, and I feel that the way we generalise about our enemies is only hurting our movement.

P.S.:I'm not sure if this is in the appropriate section, so if it isn't, those responsible feel free to move it.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Well, there are social-fascists (ie, "social-democrats"), liberal scumbags, paleo-con Neanderthals, neo-con wreckers (Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, etc.), and outright fascists and Nazis (BNP).

[Dros]

Fascists: People who advocate fascism, a mix of corprativism, ultra-nationalism, and jingoism (almost always with racism).

Nazi: National Socialists. Fascists who follow the anti-semitic form of fascism popularized by der fuhrer Adolf Hitler.

Capitalist: This word as it is commonly used has two meanings:

1.) Someone who believes that capitalism is the best mode of production.
2.) Someone who owns part of the means of production. A member of the bourgeoisie. This second definition is the one I prefer. The first is a bit silly as it refers to most people in the world right now.

Counterrevolutionary: any person or idea that either seeks to undermine a revolution or a revolutionary movement or any person or works against the aims of that revolution. Note: a person would be a counterrevolutionary while and idea is counterrevolutionary (as an adj).

[Bud Struggle]

First of all, I'll admit to having received the large majority of my political education in a heavily left-biased institution.

The source of your problem to be sure!

This is indeed the right forum to ask this question.

Let's take a quick run therough these ideologies one at a time.

Fascist. The name fascist comes from the Latin word fasces which is a bunch of sticks tied together. The Roman authorities carried these sticks before them when they walked down the street too signify that they represented the people--each individually weak--but strong when unified.

The Italians in the beginning of the 20th century used the symbol for a form of socialism they invented. The socialism was nationalistic--in that it applied to one nation at a time (Communism is a socialism that trancends nationalism.) Fascism implies that one nation is by heratage or tradition or whatever is better than other nations and that it may have the authority to subdue other nations. Fascism has always been in its manifistations authoritarian and totalitarian.

Nazism or National Socialism, is a sub group of Fascism as practiced by the German nation in the the thirties and forties. It was particularly brutal and featured a single minded anti-semitism and xenophobia for people that weren't German (Ayran.)

A racist is someone that feels that one race whites, blacks, etc is somehow superior than another race. Because of the superioity they can subdue, enslave, or belittle the "lesser" race. The Nazis were racists.

A Capitalism is a economic system that strsses individuality and self reliance. It's based on the idea that every man and woman are free creatures that can make a place for themselves in this world by their hard work and creativity. They believe (for the most part,) in liberty and freedom. They are opposed to excessive taxes, state run businesses, large government, state welfare or anything else that takes away mans essential dignity and substitutes the slave mentality of socialism.

Counter-revolutionary is anyone that opposes the increase and growth of the Reagan Revolution. Ronaldus Magnus threw down the Berlin Wall and freed the oppressed people of Eastern Europe with his Revolution--anyone wishing to build up that wall, or bring back the slave states of the Soviet Union and reinstate a 150 year old defeated ideology is a Counter-revolutionary.

Well, that's my view--others around here may have different opinions. :hammersickle::lol:

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Could somebody explain how this works?

All of the above ideologies oppose contemporary socialism.

Fascists wish to preserve corporatism (Mussolini's own definition) and class unity, which is contrary to the ideas laid out by Marx and Bakunin. In effect, all fascist experiments turn up as class domination, since the ruling classes in any system will not compromise their position. Trotsky writes that fascism is just an extension of capitalism after a large workers' movement develops, which seems likely since class unity necessitates an existing class system.

The Nazi Party, which many conservative thinkers try to break down into "national socialism," developed as a reaction to shifting beliefs in Germany. Hitler was always critical of having the world socialist used, going so far as to denounce all forms of socialism (doublethink?) in the '30s. Nazi and fascist ideology are remarkably similar; some neo-fascist groups, however, want to draw a line between the two.

Racism is anti-socialist because it has nothing to do with class identity. Indeed racism, like sexism, hinders the proletariat from uniting.

I think you realize why people are labeled capitalist, so I'll skip this.

Counter-revolutionaries are people who would like to turn back the clock on revolutions. Depending on circumstances, left-communists, anarchists, and Marxists have disagreed over whether or not the revolution was progressive or not. However, usually counter-revolutionary is a label used for any of the above groups.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ The real "national socialists" in the NSDAP - however already reactionary they were - were axed by Hitler in the Night of the Long Knives (the SA). So TomK's "double-duth" and idiotic "Hitler was a socialist" tripe is little more than that: tripe.

Call it petit-bourgeois guilt: fascism being associated with petit-bourgeois reaction, so modern petit-bourgeois folks distance themselves from such and call it "socialist."

[Bud Struggle]

^^^ The real "national socialists" in the NSDAP - however already reactionary they were - were axed by Hitler in the Night of the Long Knives (the SA). So TomK's "double-duth" and idiotic "Hitler was a socialist" tripe is little more than that: tripe.


Hey they call themselves Nationalsozialisten. Who am I to argue? :)

And I'm NOT PETIT! :cursing:

[Dros]

^^^ The real "national socialists" in the NSDAP - however already reactionary they were - were axed by Hitler in the Night of the Long Knives (the SA). So TomK's "double-duth" and idiotic "Hitler was a socialist" tripe is little more than that: tripe.

Call it petit-bourgeois guilt: fascism being associated with petit-bourgeois reaction, so modern petit-bourgeois folks distance themselves from such and call it "socialist."

TomK is part of the haute bourgeoisie.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Again, from what I've read, I don't think so (certain petit-bourgeois elements THINK they're bourgeois, just like many white-collar workers THINK they're "middle-class").

[Bud Struggle]

TomK is part of the haute bourgeoisie.

EXACTLY!!! :thumbup:

[Plagueround]

Counter-revolutionary is anyone that opposes the increase and growth of the Reagan Revolution.


The only growth we saw under Reagan that wasn't short term was national debt. :laugh:

[Dros]

^^^ Again, from what I've read, I don't think so (certain petit-bourgeois elements THINK they're bourgeois, just like many white-collar workers THINK they're "middle-class").

He owns a factory.

[RGacky3]

Maybe Tomk would be considered a hot shot Bourgeousie in the late 1800s, but nower days he's realy the bottom of the barrel when it comes to bourgeousie, nowerdays if you don't own a couple houses and a yact you can't really be considered a hot shot Capitalist :P. Capitalism is big time now.


Hey they call themselves Nationalsozialisten. Who am I to argue? http://www.revleft.com/vb/faschist-nazi-racist-t79510/revleft/smilies/001_smile.gif


Yeah, and the Democratic peoples republic of Korea, calls itself that. Back then in Europe Socialism was a big deal, and being the smart propagandists they were they used the term to their advantage. But again, fascism is solidly based on Corpratism, which is somewhat opposed to Capitalism because its not a free market, its rather a state mandated market, with the Capitalist Ologarchy and the State working together. Its as Socialist as Subsidising Oil Companies :P.

In many ways after WW2 the America incorporated many aspects of Fascism, (without the authoritarianism), like Corporatism, Subsidising big companies, the military-industrial complex, insane nationalism, militarism, things like that.

[Die Neue Zeit]

He owns a factory.

So did Engels. :p

BTW, I read his posts on his primary source of income: commercial real estate. Even with that...


Maybe Tomk would be considered a hot shot Bourgeousie in the late 1800s, but nower days he's realy the bottom of the barrel when it comes to bourgeousie, nowerdays if you don't own a couple houses and a yact you can't really be considered a hot shot Capitalist :P. Capitalism is big time now.

Technically he owns two or three houses plus one or two luxury cars, but his commercial real estate is still quite PETIT. It's kinda like semi-famous actors who live in similar quasi-luxury but don't engage in business activities.

[Dros]

So did Engels. :p

Who was also part of the bourgeoisie. Politics doesn't effect your class.;)

[Die Neue Zeit]

No, Engels too was petit-bourgeois. :rolleyes:

I have my suspicions that your position has something to do with the renaming of your cult's newspaper from Revolutionary Worker to Revolution.

[Jazzratt]

Hey they call themselves Nationalsozialisten. Who am I to argue? :)

At it's very core any socialist system has to have at the core of its plans and ideology (not simply its rhetoric) the furtherance of working class interests. Now, whilst (thanks to his rhetoric) Hitler's power base was mostly working class the actual policies enacted were designed mainly to stimulate large business growth and forge a powerful link between the state and businesses (a sort of public-private partnership, if you will :lol:*) - some of his major concessions to business included shutting down unions and stripping some of the basic workers rights (5 day weeks, I believe were out the window). Meanwhile the proletariat and some (though not all) of the petit-bourgeoisie saw themselves becoming much more worse off than in Weimar germany.


*If you don't get this don't worry, the "public-private partnership" is a plan cooked up by Britain's rightwing government whereby tax money is filtered away from actually doing anything to improve our state services and is instead ploughed into private companies who can make whatever cock ups they like secure in the knowledge more money will continue going their way. It's all very dodgy and all very lucrative for the top players. It's also the reason my train into work is so fucking expensive and why travelling into london using our shambles of a public transport network is slightly less fun than a kick in the nuts.

[hajduk]

Srebrenica Genocide Blog (http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/)

SREBRENICA GENOCIDE IS NOT A MATTER OF ANYBODY'S OPINION; IT'S A JUDICIAL FACT RECOGNIZED FIRST BY THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA AND SUBSEQUENTLY BY THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE.
http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2007/07/srebrenica-genocide-questions-answers.html



(http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2007/07/srebrenica-genocide-questions-answers.html)

[hajduk]

Romeo and Juliet in Sarajevo
Original Air Date: May 10, 1994
Written and Directed by John Zaritsky
Produced by Virginia Storring
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/transcripts/1217.html

[Robert]

Is this the very best thread for a post concerning genocide in the Balkans?

[Baconator]

Nazis, fascists, and racists all share one inherent characteristic. They all belong to the same collectivist family of ideas. Whether based on national origin, race, or social class it is the initiation of violence advocated by irrational groups.

contra-revolutionary?

Capitalists are a bit different. Capitalists were individualistic and profit driven but some used the power of state coercion as a means to achieve their ends. Hence, the birth of the legal fiction known as the Corporation.

[Robert]

Nazis, fascists, and racists all share one inherent characteristic. They all belong to the same collectivist family of ideas.

Aren't communists collectivist too?

[Baconator]

Aren't communists collectivist too?


Yes.

[Robert]

Thank you. I just ate two pieces of bacon in your honor. I cooked them in a (choose one):

1) skillet;

2) pan;

3) baconator;

4) microwave oven.

[Killfacer]

There are also normal people like me. Im not a capitalist, but i certainly dont want a bunch of commies to shit all over everybodies lively hoods because they think they know best.

About the whole were the Nazi party socialists as their name suggests. Yes they were. many of their early policies (particuarly pre night of the long knives) were extremely socialist. I remember reading about it when i studied it at school. Despite that, what someone said earlier is correct, the socialist elements were nearly all obliterated during the night of the long knives. The word socialist is a pretty vague term, any government which can claime to have attempted some distribution of wealth could say it was socialist, even if it was more facist.

[Baconator]

Thank you. I just ate two pieces of bacon in your honor. I cooked them in a (choose one):

1) skillet;

2) pan;

3) baconator;

4) microwave oven.

How about raw?

[Baconator]

There are also normal people like me. Im not a capitalist, but i certainly dont want a bunch of commies to shit all over everybodies lively hoods because they think they know best.

About the whole were the Nazi party socialists as their name suggests. Yes they were. many of their early policies (particuarly pre night of the long knives) were extremely socialist. I remember reading about it when i studied it at school. Despite that, what someone said earlier is correct, the socialist elements were nearly all obliterated during the night of the long knives. The word socialist is a pretty vague term, any government which can claime to have attempted some distribution of wealth could say it was socialist, even if it was more facist.

Cheers mate!

[Robert]

How about raw?

Well, you DO think outside the box!

[anti_fa01]

Ahh, who wanna bet us that we don't touch leathers
Stack cheddars forever, live treacherous all the et ceteras
To the death of us, me and my confidants, we shine
You feel the ambiance, y'all commies just rhyme
By the ounce dough accumulates like snow
We don't just shine, we illuminate the whole show; you feel me?
Factions from the other side would love to kill me
Spill three quarts of my blood into the street, let alone the heat
Fuck em, we hate a fascist lovin this life
In all possible ways, know the Feds is buggin my life
Hospital days, reflectin when my man laid up
On the Uptown high block he got his side sprayed up
I saw his life slippin, this is a minor set back
Yo, still in all we livin, just dream about the get back
That made him smile though his eyes said, "Pray for me"
I'll do you one better and slay these commies faithfully
Murder is a tough thing to digest, it's a slow process
and I ain't got nothin but time
I had near brushes, not to mention three shots
close range, never touched me, divine intervention
Can't stop I, from drinkin Mai-Tai's, with Ta Ta
Down in Nevada, ha ha, Poppa, word life
I dabbled in crazy weight without capitalism, I was crazy straight
Potnah, I'm still spendin money from ninety-eight... what?
Geyeah, know what? I'll make..
you and your wack mans fold like bad hands
Roll like Monopoly, ad-vance you copy me
like white crystals, I gross the most
at the end of the fiscal year than these commies can wish to
The dead presidential, canidate
with the sprinkles and the presidental, ice that'll offend you
In due time when crime fleas my mind
All sneak thieves and revolutionary's can shine
But until then I keep the trillion cut diamonds shinin brilliant
I'll tell you half the story, the rest you fill it in
Long as the capitalist's win
I spend Japan yen, attend major events
Catch me in the joints, convinced my iguanas is bitin
N-A-Z-I hyphen, controllin, manipulatin
I got a good life man, pounds and pence
Nuff dollars make sense, while you ride the bench
Catch me swinging for the fence
Dead Presidents, ya know
Uh-huh, yeah, uh-huh, so be it
The Soviet, The Unified Steady Flow
You already know, you light I'm heavy roll, heavy dough
I might macheted your hoe, your paper falls slow
like confetti, mines a steady grow, bet he glow
Pay five dead it from blow, better believe I have
eleven sixty to show, my doe flip like Tae-Kwon
NSM The Icon, baby, you like Dom, maybe this Cristal's
to change your life huh, roll with the winners
Heavy spenders like hit records: NSM
Don't get it corrected this shit is perfected
from chips to chicks just drivin a Lexus
Make it without your gun, we takin everything you brung
We cake and you commies is fake and we gettin it done
Crime Family, well connected NAZI
And you fake Commies is Unplugged like MTV
I empty three, take your treasure, my pleasure
Dead presidentials, politics as usual
Bla-ouw!

[Robert]

Get down with yo' bad self, homie!

[hajduk]

Is this the very best thread for a post concerning genocide in the Balkans?yes,why not?

[RedAnarchist]

yes,why not?

Welcome back, hajduk.

[Bilan]

Nazis, fascists, and racists all share one inherent characteristic. They all belong to the same collectivist family of ideas. Whether based on national origin, race, or social class it is the initiation of violence advocated by irrational groups.

contra-revolutionary?

Capitalists are a bit different. Capitalists were individualistic and profit driven but some used the power of state coercion as a means to achieve their ends. Hence, the birth of the legal fiction known as the Corporation.

You are silly and ignorant. Aroint thee!

[Invader Zim]

there are social-fascists (ie, "social-democrats")

Social-democrats are 'social-fascists' are they?

[hajduk]

Welcome back, hajduk.thank you comrader RedAnarchist,i been busy becouse in Croatia i animate the scollar and student revolution about Bologna system of education which dont give to mutch choice for students in this state so they will try to prevent that Bologna system apply to education system in Croatia by organising the demonstrations,they made already two,one been made by graduates and other by students of philosoph colledge in Zagreb,but interesting staff is that graduates are oganised over internet using face bock and my space like some sort of connecting graduates all over the citys in Croatia so they are made very good sincronisation of demonstrations all over the citys

[Baconator]

Ma hajduce. Di si kuco stara? Reci mi kako je vrijeme u Hrvatskoj? Blago tebi sto si tamo.:(

Zasto su ti dali restrikciju?

[hajduk]

Ma hajduce. Di si kuco stara? Reci mi kako je vrijeme u Hrvatskoj? Blago tebi sto si tamo.:(

Zasto su ti dali restrikciju?vrijeme fino,sutra idem nazad u nicaze,posao obavljen đe si ti?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Social-democrats are 'social-fascists' are they?

You need a history lesson, I'm afraid (and you also need to put "social-democrats" in quotes, cuz they're anything but, considering the classical definition of Social Democracy (http://www.revleft.com/vb/plain-proletocracy-language-t77979/index.html)):

http://www.revleft.com/vb/kpd-spd-and-t74112/index.html
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1142124&postcount=30

[BTW, I'm no classical Social-Democrat, either, but I just wanted to point this detail out.]