Ethnocentricity without predjudice? - Is it possible, youse?

[Sasafrás]

While listening to the hip-hop artist Common yesterday and after hearing him say the word 'afrocentricity' for the tenth time, I began to think, Is it possible for an individual to have ethnic pride without actually detesting other ethnic backgrounds? From Dictionary.com, I learned that ethnocentricism can be defined as a) Belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group, and B) Overriding concern with race, so, without thinking about the belief in superiority and just looking at it as a paramount concern or as an great amount of pride in one's own ethnicity, do you think that someone has the right to say that he/she is "black and proud" or persistently discuss "white pride" or "brown pride"? Do you think that such an individual can really say that he is not so centered on his own race that he sees people who belong to other ethnic groups as inferior or at least cannot have concern for other racial groups? Do you think ethnic pride without hatred & discrimination can exist? We've seen in the past how ethnocentricity and racial pride have caused violence and hate to be dispensed upon people of a certain other background, but do you think this is always and will always be the case? What are your thoughts?

I'm just wondering.

I hope this hasn’t already been addressed here before.

[Mazdak]

The answer is no.

somewhere they have a black pride parade, (or "african american day parade" (stupid PC bastards))

I am sure if we have a white pride parade, not many would be too happy about it.

Or a gay pride parade followed by a straight pride parade.


The answer is no, being proud of your ethnicity is just another form of nationalist like divider.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 11:57 pm on Sep. 5, 2002
The answer is no.

somewhere they have a black pride parade, (or "african american day parade" (stupid PC bastards))

I am sure if we have a white pride parade, not many would be too happy about it.

Or a gay pride parade followed by a straight pride parade.


The answer is no, being proud of your ethnicity is just another form of nationalist like divider.


There is a white pride parade....its called every other day in america where ethnicities aren't aknowledged. :)



Black People were opressed in this country

Gays are still opressed in this country.

How many Straight WASPS being lynched or dragged behind a truck.

When all minority groups have gained total equality then there will be no more need for the parades

[Anonymous]

I'm playing the smallest violin in the world....... :sad:

[Mazdak]

Lardlad, i should have known you'd post something ridiculous. Minorities are oppressed? Maybe mexicans and a few others, but i think minorities haveway too many special privileges.
Forexample. You brought up your 40 acres and a mule BS. Were you ever a slave? Then why do you deserve it? And i never owned a slave. Hell, my family didnt even live here when slaves were around. So why the hell should my family work its ass off to provide you with something you never earned?

[Anonymous]

I'm proud of my ancestry. Do you have a problem with that?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:16 am on Sep. 6, 2002
Lardlad, i should have known you'd post something ridiculous. Minorities are oppressed? Maybe mexicans and a few others, but i think minorities haveway too many special privileges.
Forexample. You brought up your 40 acres and a mule BS. Were you ever a slave? Then why do you deserve it? And i never owned a slave. Hell, my family didnt even live here when slaves were around. So why the hell should my family work its ass off to provide you with something you never earned?

ok mazdak you must be an incredible dumbass....All I said I wanted was a congressional apology.

I just said that the government never gave the slaves what they promised.

Get your shit straight.

Mazdak when anyone can't get fair treatment they are opressed.

I'm sorry mazdak but I don't want to be like you, in any way shape or form.

I'm not giving up my ethnic history to suite your needs.

I don't want to be you, I don't want to be a clone of you.

I'm proud of my heratige thats that.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:18 am on Sep. 6, 2002
I'm proud of my ancestry. Do you have a problem with that?


obviously mazdak does...because he wants us all to be like him, isn't that great?

[Mazdak]

No. But i would rather humans think in the sense of Homo sapien then of black and white. Obviously Lardlad hasnt figured that out yet.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:24 am on Sep. 6, 2002
No. But i would rather humans think in the sense of Homo sapien then of black and white. Obviously Lardlad hasnt figured that out yet.

Mazdak me and you share no culture

unless you are Puerto Rican or Black

we share no cultural history.

No ethnic history.

My ancestor's sruggles are different from your ancestors struggles

the only way that I am in anyway connected to you is

1) Che Lives

2) we are both humans

3) we are both teenagers

4) we are both leftists

other than that we have no connection what so ever.

Why should I forget my backround? Why should you not accept yours?


Is it right for some rich guy with no struggles to say he is the same as a person who grew up and crippling poverty?

No it isnt because they aren't the same.

THat doesn't mean one is better than the other,

but they aren't the same they are different people with different lives.

Saying they are the same trivializes what that poor person went through

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 12:32 am on Sep. 6, 2002)

[Sasafrás]

Hmmm...

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Mazdak on 6:57 pm on Sep. 5, 2002
I am sure if we have a white pride parade, not many would be too happy about it.White isn't an ethnicity, dumbass.

Don't Irish people have parades every other day? I've been to three of them, and was not offended. I have no problem with that. And if the Italians or the Dutchmen or the Frenchmen (or whoever) want to have a parade, that's okay by me.

"Hispanic" is considered a race, but you're more likely to hear about the Puerto Rican Day Parade than a Hispanic Day Parade. (Is there even such thing as a Hispanic Day Parade?) Black is often considered an ethnicity because most black people are the descendents of slaves and those black people lost their ethnic identity when they were taken to America. But first-generation Somalians, Nigerians, Ethiopians, Jamaicans etc. all have their own identity.

To get back to the question at hand, I think there's nothing wrong with being proud of your culture as long as you're not fooling yourself. For example, there's nothing wrong with being proud that my father and semi-adopted daughter both have the same skin color as the man who invented peanut butter. It's when you hear things like, "We black people invented rock and roll and the peanut" that you should watch out.

Every culture on the planet has contributed something. If you say that your ethnicity is good, but you avoid getting arrogant and saying that your ethnicity is perfect, that's fine by me.

Lindsay

[canikickit]

Well


From La Rainbeaux

Do you think ethnic pride without hatred & discrimination can exist?

No. Not because of the pride in ones own culture/ethnicity. But because there will always be idiots like Mazdak. Who generalise their hatred (i.e. towards all religious and prostitutes) and contradict themselves. i.e.


i would rather humans think in the sense of Homo sapien then of black and white
Why can't you think of people as homosapiens rather than religious vs. atheist? You are very hypocritical.

LardLad

Mazdak me and you share no culture
You are both American. Speaking from the point of view of not being American I can say that Americans share many similar traits. It is only natural, the same way Irish people do.
However Lardlad you are intelligent. Mazdak, look at my signature, and go backhere (http://www.seaworld.com).

Everything that Lindsay said was great. Except I don't have parades everyday or every other day.

Can someone explain what is the problem with my ikoncode here?


(Edited by canikickit at 6:09 am on Sep. 6, 2002)


(Edited by canikickit at 6:23 am on Sep. 6, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

There is no American culture...there is American Pop culture but I am not so caught up in that.

American culture is a mix of thousands of several cultures.

Ethnic Cultures

Religious Cultures

Musica Cultures

alot of which I don't belong to

[new democracy]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 12:29 am on Sep. 6, 2002

Mazdak me and you share no culture

unless you are Puerto Rican or Black

we share no cultural history.

No ethnic history.

My ancestor's sruggles are different from your ancestors struggles

the only way that I am in anyway connected to you is

1) Che Lives

2) we are both humans

3) we are both teenagers

4) we are both leftists

other than that we have no connection what so ever.

Why should I forget my backround? Why should you not accept yours?


Is it right for some rich guy with no struggles to say he is the same as a person who grew up and crippling poverty?

No it isnt because they aren't the same.

THat doesn't mean one is better than the other,

but they aren't the same they are different people with different lives.

Saying they are the same trivializes what that poor person went through

Lardlad95, that's disgusting. nationalism means: a black(or whatever nationality the person is) worker have more with the black elite rather than the white, hispano, asian workers. i am disgust by the concept of "fuck of you crackers!!!! we have nothing to do with you!!!!" or "it's a struggle of the poor black against rich whity". you shouldn't be ashamed that you are black, but you shouldn't be proud of it. what is the point of being proud of it? it is just a skin color. does it make you a superman? if it does, i can become one too in the same way michael jekson turn white. but maybe it mean shit because it is not authentic. deep inside i will still a cracker. nationalism is completely ridicules. when i look in your posts it's look like you care only about blacks. "they slaughter kurds in turkey, who cares? one of the sides is black?". the quote that i about to show you is taken from my thread "concentration camps in the u.s!? ". note how Lardlad95 change the topic.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from vox on 12:26 am on Aug. 29, 2002
Yes, it's true. I believe they were called internment camps. It was a great capital seizure, too, for the Japanese-Americans had their property taken by the gov't. Clinton signed a reparations bill so the survivors and their families could get some money back.

vox
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




and black people cant get repirations? what the hell
redrevolutionary(i think that was him) said here once something like this:"everyone that is proud of their nationality make me sick".
one time my mother watch the news and their was a report about the the jews in argentina in the years of the military junta. they talked about how their rights were crushed. my mom said "our government(in israel) should have try to help the jews instead of selling weapons to argentina". i said "our government shouldn't care about the rights of jews more than the rights of other minorities. i don't believe in the concept of the "rights of your nationality are more important than the rights of other nationalities". i care about the rights of all minorities, i care about the rights of jews, but not more than rights of others nationalities."
that's all. i have the feeling that allot of people are going to get mad post. so you know what? screw you. i don't care if you mad.

[Lardlad95]

I'm proud of my history. Is that wrong? Is black history your history? No it isn't. Is chinese history my history? No so how cna I be proud of something that isn't mine, it makes more sense to be proud of my own history.

Second I do care about other cultures I'm just particularly proud of my own.

On this forum I have stated that I don't like discrimination no matter who it is directed to.

My friend dan was talking about middle eastern people and I defended them.

Am I middle eastern? No I'm not yet I still thought it wrong that he talked about them.

Second I only said that thing about black people getting repirations because the US gave another minority group repirations but not us.

If I only liked black people then wouldn't I say that they didn't deserve repirations and only black people do.

No I didn't say that. I was wondering why the US wasn't being fair about it.

New Democracy you seem to think that because I take pride in my race that that is all I care about.

Black people in America were stripped of our culture or our heratige.

Now that we finally want to get it back you don't want us to, whats wrong with you?

Why can't you take pride in your race?

That doesn't mean I think other races are inferior, but I still can take pride in my race

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from new democracy on 12:05 am on Sep. 7, 2002
i said "our government shouldn't care about the rights of jews more than the rights of other minorities. i don't believe in the concept of the "rights of your nationality are more important than the rights of other nationalities". i care about the rights of all minorities, i care about the rights of jews, but not more than rights of others nationalities."
that's all. i have the feeling that allot of people are going to get mad post. so you know what? screw you. i don't care if you mad.


When have I ever said that blacks were more important than other minorities?

When please tell me, because I think black people in America deserve an apology for slavery I suddenly only like black people?

You know very little if anything about my stance on minorities.

Because I don't share an ethnic backround with you doesn't mean I think you deserve less than me.

Remember I'm a socialist I believe in equality

[new democracy]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 12:18 am on Sep. 7, 2002

Second I do care about other cultures I'm just particularly proud of my own.

why when i say something like that everyone will yell "boo!!!!!"? and what is the point of being proud in the color of your skin? and why extecly do you say you have almost nothing in common with white people?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from new democracy on 12:28 am on Sep. 7, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 12:18 am on Sep. 7, 2002

Second I do care about other cultures I'm just particularly proud of my own.

why when i say something like that everyone will yell "boo!!!!!"? and what is the point of being proud in the color of your skin? and why extecly do you say you have almost nothing in common with white people?

notice I said I'm proud of my culture not skin color.

When I said I have nothing in common with white people I meant culture with.

Do you know why because the white race has many cultures. Irish, Scottish, British, etc.

None of whic I belong to

the black race has many cultures, Nigerian, South African, African American.

Of which only one i belong to.

However I was using black in place of African American cuz it doesn't really fit.

So lets just say Black American.

I didn't mean race I meant culture

[Sasafrás]

Funny, new democracy, I had a conversation similar to this one with a Jewish girl over the summer. I'll say it to you the same way I said it to her. Like Lardlad was saying, I may have more of a concern with my own ethnic background, since it belongs to me and I can easily identify with it, but that doesn't prevent me from having concern for others. I'm black and I live in America, so I identify with the problems black people in America more than any other. It's very hard for me to really understand what other people go through because, even though it's on the news, I don't see it face-to-face and I can't easily relate to it. I've seen black people be denied opportunities, be called "niggers," and experience other horrific things, especially since I live in the South. Also, it's hard because in this web community, there are only about three or four active people who can be considered black, Lardlad & I being two of them. I don't do it too often, but Lardlad, I think, wants to try to make people aware of the difficulties that our people have to face, primarily because he understands it more than anything else. As a black person, I do not really know what the Kurds, Palestinians, and other suffering people in other parts of the world deal with on a daily basis; however, I do feel a sense of connection to them as a person of color in the US and, I want to know what they go through so that I can understand. You know what I mean, new democracy?

[new democracy]

if you said culture it is o.k. about kurds: they are oppressed by turkish, iraqi and irani armies, not allowed to use their language, i saw that their are some kurds on this forum so you can ask them.

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from new democracy on 6:56 pm on Sep. 6, 2002
i saw that their are some kurds on this forum so you can ask them. And I think that is the purpose of this forum: to give people the opportunity to teach others about the pain & atrocities suffered by themselves and their respective people. That's what Lardlad is doing. Everyone has the opportunity to do so, they should take advantage.

Yes, and I'm not glad that my skin is brown, but I'm glad that I have a rich heritage and that my people have a history full of bravery and hard work. That's what I'm proud of.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from new democracy on 12:56 am on Sep. 7, 2002
if you said culture it is o.k. about kurds: they are oppressed by turkish, iraqi and irani armies, not allowed to use their language, i saw that their are some kurds on this forum so you can ask them.


yeah I heard something about the Kurds but I never got that much info

[canikickit]

There is no American culture...there is American Pop culture but I am not so caught up in that.

American culture is a mix of thousands of several cultures.
Ethnic Cultures
Religious Cultures
Musica Cultures
alot of which I don't belong to

Bullshit man, this "mix of cultures" is a culture in itself.
Wether you get caught up in a culture or not doesn't matter, you are both exposed to the same advertisments, TV stations, films, fads, etc., etc.
Of course you don't belong to all cultures but I don't belong to all the Irish cultures either.
I can notice similarities between myself and some of the other Irish lads like Pas and Born of Zapastas Guns. It is true that America is far more diverse than Ireland due to its size, I can still see similarities between you and American Kid, simply because you are both American. Perhaps it is more difficult to see this from the inside, but it is there.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from canikickit on 2:04 am on Sep. 7, 2002

There is no American culture...there is American Pop culture but I am not so caught up in that.

American culture is a mix of thousands of several cultures.
Ethnic Cultures
Religious Cultures
Musica Cultures
alot of which I don't belong to

Bullshit man, this "mix of cultures" is a culture in itself.
Wether you get caught up in a culture or not doesn't matter, you are both exposed to the same advertisments, TV stations, films, fads, etc., etc.
Of course you don't belong to all cultures but I don't belong to all the Irish cultures either.
I can notice similarities between myself and some of the other Irish lads like Pas and Born of Zapastas Guns. It is true that America is far more diverse than Ireland due to its size, I can still see similarities between you and American Kid, simply because you are both American. Perhaps it is more difficult to see this from the inside, but it is there.


There is no American culture me and Glamgirl don't share the same culture.

She's into malls and glittery glamory superficial shit

I'm into theology, philosophy, quantum physics, politics, economis...

I'm a socialist...she's glamgirl

how is that the same culture...though that may not be all she is into thats what I've gotten from what she has said

[DestinDisaster]

First and foremost, the thing that irrates me the most is the issue of race. we are all human, why must we let skin color be a dividing factor? I feel that everyone has the right to be proud of their own skin color and culture. Embrace it, love it, it's yours. I don't like it when I ask people their nationality, who are obviously white, and they say "I'm just white". Be proud, your white, you have culture too. I'm proud of my culture, I'm black and Irish. I don't know my father, so I don't know much about my Irish side, but I still embrace it. About the Black pride, or Puerto Rican, or Irish, or Gay pride parades it's a day of celebrating cultural heritage. Thats all it is. It's not saying, "look my race is better than yours", it's just saying "I'm proud of what my culture has been through, overcame and accomplished." America has it's day of celebrating it's heritage, Independance day.

p.s
If anyone is Irish and would take a few minutes out of their day to teach me about it, i would appreciate it. Just send me a note. Thanks

[canikickit]

There is no American culture me and Glamgirl don't share the same culture.

She's into malls and glittery glamory superficial shit

Your logic is.....illogical.

So, seeing as there is an Irish culture, that means I am into the same things as an Irish girl aged sixteen, purely because I'm Irish?

Culture doesn't completely define everything you are.

Anyway this is just bullshit. Like I said Mazdak is an idiot and you're not. I'm just not going to let anyone claim there is no American culture.


the "mix of cultures" is a culture in itself.

There are certain things Americans say. Let's take "my bad" for example, this is part of American culture.
This is just one example of how Americans can share similar traits due to growing up under the same TV stations, music charts and so forth.

I know you are not into the "popular" music in America Lardlad, but it still effects you. In the sense that you reject it.

Like you say glamgirl is into "malls". No Irish person would ever say someone is into malls, it wouldn't make sense, this is a part of american culture. Just because you reject certain aspects of your culture does not mean they are not a part of your culture.


(Edited by canikickit at 3:05 am on Sep. 7, 2002)

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from DestinDisaster on 8:48 pm on Sep. 6, 2002
p.s
If anyone is Irish and would take a few minutes out of their day to teach me about it, i would appreciate it. Just send me a note. Thanks
You must talk to Pastradamus... :)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from canikickit on 3:03 am on Sep. 7, 2002

There is no American culture me and Glamgirl don't share the same culture.

She's into malls and glittery glamory superficial shit

Your logic is.....illogical.

So, seeing as there is an Irish culture, that means I am into the same things as an Irish girl aged sixteen, purely because I'm Irish?

Culture doesn't completely define everything you are.

Anyway this is just bullshit. Like I said Mazdak is an idiot and you're not. I'm just not going to let anyone claim there is no American culture.


the "mix of cultures" is a culture in itself.

There are certain things Americans say. Let's take "my bad" for example, this is part of American culture.
This is just one example of how Americans can share similar traits due to growing up under the same TV stations, music charts and so forth.

I know you are not into the "popular" music in America Lardlad, but it still effects you. In the sense that you reject it.

Like you say glamgirl is into "malls". No Irish person would ever say someone is into malls, it wouldn't make sense, this is a part of american culture. Just because you reject certain aspects of your culture does not mean they are not a part of your culture.


(Edited by canikickit at 3:05 am on Sep. 7, 2002)


fine sure what ever there is an american culture.

Actually no there isn't because I can have more in common with what I like from someone from Ireland than someone from America....in fact my friend Dan Kennedy from Ireland is more like me than some people from America.

[canikickit]

Come on man. I've got more in common with you than Adolf Hitler.
Does that mean there is no Irish culture or German culture?
A person's culture is more than what they are.
I know you are nothing like Mazdak. He actually makes you look smart. nah I'm just kidding around.
Actually I just read in one post that you're only 14.
That's great, you're a genius for a 14 year old.
Keep up the good work.

[Lardlad95]

I guess you are right