a question to the cappis

[new democracy]

wouldn't you prefer a classless society than capitalism? i know you think that this kind of society can't work, but if you could create one and it was sure work, would you create that kind of society?




(Edited by new democracy at 9:38 pm on Sep. 4, 2002)

[truthaddict11]

of course not it gives them the pleasure to oppress people

[queen of diamonds]

If it was guaranteed to work, then yes.

But human nature is such that it wouldn't, and some people just naturally have more class than others. I think that should be the basis of our classes, not money or a respectable name.

And when all men (and women) truly are equal, then a classless society will be a good idea, but until then, it should not and can not exist.

[marxistdisciple]

On the contrary, people can never be truly equal, until we create a society that does not inherantly divide them.

[Turnoviseous]

Quote: from queen of diamonds on 11:07 pm on Sep. 4, 2002
And when all men (and women) truly are equal, then a classless society will be a good idea, but until then, it should not and can not exist.


You get it all wrong. People can not be totally equal until there is classless society. So a good idea it is now, when people are not equal. When people will be equal, this idea will have no such significance.

It is like saying "I would like to have one apple, but I won´t wish to have one until I have one!".

(Edited by Turnoviseous at 3:26 am on Sep. 5, 2002)

[Anonymous]

Quote: from new democracy on 8:26 pm on Sep. 4, 2002
wouldn't you prefer a classless society than capitalism? i know you think that this kind of society can't work, but if you could create one and it was sure work, would you create that kind of society?




(Edited by new democracy at 9:38 pm on Sep. 4, 2002)


no.

[suffianr]

But Dark Capitalist, why not?

[American Kid]

Well if you could create a cancer that wouldn't kill anybody, wouldn't you all want it?

Wouldn't you???

(ND, a classless society is an impossiblity. As there will always, always be a cool kid's table)

fin

-AK

[American Kid]

And Marxistdisciple, but you MUST inherently devide them, into to inherently bring them together.

You see, you're going into the present environment and altering it, thereby dividing it.

It's all very annoyingly Hegelistic, isn't it?

[canikickit]

And what would this cancer do?
hmmm.....AK, I wish to buy your cancer.

[Anonymous]

I belive people should be allowed to advance their economic status in society regardless of the will of others.


Why should I have to share?

[Capitalist Imperial]

"Classless society"

What will bethe motivation for progress, invention, innovation?

Who will be in charge of distributing the resources?

Will the ruling party be truly equal to the proletariat?

Doctors and janitors live exactly the same, though one commits much more of his time, skills, emotion, and energy to benefitting society?

Do we all get to chose how we live our lives?? Oh, ok, I want to be a jet fighter pilot, or no, maybe a movie star, or a doctor. I'm sure everyone else won't mind being a ditch digger or toilet cleaner.

I get to make that choice, right?

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 3:53 am on Sep. 5, 2002)

[American Kid]

Exactly. The most laughable and pathetically rediculous apsects of far-left ideaology: Classless society.

A dream. An impossible dream. A dangerous dream, at that.

For who's going to bring us all down to the "same level"? Who's going to be the lucky individual who comes to my house and tells my dad that he can't own the house he built himself with his own hands, on the land his father worked so hard to buy?

Answer: the same guy who my dad is going to beat the shit out of.

Amazing. They're the same guy.

Correlation?????

And an even more intriguing question: who's going to decide where this quote unquote status quo will be? Who's going to play God?

This brand of idealism is profoundly counter-productive as it leads to: nothing. It's implausible.

-AK

(I'm going to watch Howard Stern on E!, I'll be back)

[canikickit]

AK,CI, DK...

Great points, lads.

[American Kid]

Thank you. My cancer is available, but we shall have to negotiate.

-AK

[Anonymous]

Suffering must be shared equally among the massess.

(assholes)

[canikickit]

can't...negotiate....must....overcome....c-c-capit..alist...leanings.....materialism....ack!

okay 20 euros, final offer.

(assholes)

What's that the latest trend?

[Anonymous]

If they own my house, my land, my car, my job, and my food supply, well then I guess that means they own me too.

Is that all I am to you people? Just a fucking cog in the machine! Just a brick in the foundation of your grand socialist utopian society?!?

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 9:39 am on Sep. 5, 2002)

[Pinko]

"What will bethe motivation for progress, invention, innovation?"

The advancement of society and the betterment of the people.
The USSR was the first country into space, they lead the world in eye surgery. Cuba (a so-called second world country) has a better dental health system than most western countries (of the so-called first world).

"Who will be in charge of distributing the resources?"

Those that produce them.

"Will the ruling party be truly equal to the proletariat?"

Ideally, yes. Do democracies always do what the voters want? No.
There should be a system where the representatives of communities implement the will of those communities (which is informed and for the social good) and can be removed by those communities at the drop of a hat. In a way, communism is best expressed as a democracy, with full public accountibility and transparency, where the voter base is well informed and educated.

"Doctors and janitors live exactly the same, though one commits much more of his time, skills, emotion, and energy to benefitting society?"

Why should a janitor not care as much about his work than a doctor? In my view of communism, the cleaning and basic mainainance tasks would be carried out by the people that work in that environment, with everyone taking two weeks out of the year to do community service (eg: street cleaning and rubish collecting).

"Do we all get to chose how we live our lives?? Oh, ok, I want to be a jet fighter pilot, or no, maybe a movie star, or a doctor. I'm sure everyone else won't mind being a ditch digger or toilet cleaner.

I get to make that choice, right?"

As long as you are the best able to fill your position. Your current selfish aims are incompatible with the socially educated masses of ideal communism. As I have said before, communism (Marxist) has never been properly implemented in the world. Don't damn that which has never had a proper chance.

[Anonymous]

Quote: from canikickit on 9:36 am on Sep. 5, 2002
can't...negotiate....must....overcome....c-c-capit..alist...leanings.....materialism....ack!


Hmmm.....The force is strong in this one.

[American Kid]

Worry not......break him, we will.

EUROS???? Was is this fuckin' amateur hour shit???

Fuckin' Euros.....uh, no- WAMPUM!
Euros.....

[canikickit]

off fuck, you will.

Mock the Euro if you will (http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_eco&lng=1&option=6,eco)
There's not really much to mock (http://www.xe.com/ucc/)

[American Kid]

I don't give a fuck about Euros. But from one I've heard from my friends in Europe, it wasn't exactly the best idea to come out of the continent.

*wink, wink Lithuania, wink, wink*

(they can only get Euros if they cut their balls off and close their only huge power plant)
-AK

[Pinko]

Don't mock the Euro, it is as strong as the US$.

[American Kid]

I'm not mocking it

[Capitalist Imperial]

I am mocking the euro, it is not nearly as strong as the dollar. The "exchange value is close to equal", but that is not the same as being "as strong".

[Capitalist Imperial]

[quote]Quote: from Pinko on 4:42 am on Sep. 5, 2002
"What will bethe motivation for progress, invention, innovation?"

"The advancement of society and the betterment of the people.
The USSR was the first country into space, they lead the world in eye surgery. Cuba (a so-called second world country) has a better dental health system than most western countries (of the so-called first world)."

Yeah, the USSR was in spacce 1st. But at what price? Too bad their peolpe stood in line 4 hours for bread.

The US surpassed soon russia in the space program, getting to the moon 1st, and inventing what is still the only re-usable spaceship, and is the world leader in space technology. And, my friend, you are just about out of examples of russian innovation. Pinko, this one is not worth arguing. You and I both know that the USA by far is the most innovative, inventive, and revolutionary culture of the past 150 years, and surpasses the old soviet union by light years in terms of inventions that changed the world. That is the direct result of the capitalist system, as it encourages individual thinking and motivates those to acheive.

""Who will be in charge of distributing the resources?"

Those that produce them."

So everyone that produces widgets distributes them to the world? The banana growers send out the bananas? The washing machine makers send those out to everyone? Efficient!

""Will the ruling party be truly equal to the proletariat?"

Ideally, yes. Do democracies always do what the voters want? No."

Actually, the majority is usually served adequately. In a democratic republic, voters put in representatives,which pass legislation in the interests of their constituency. It is not perfect, nothing is, but much more of a representative, flexible, dynamic state than what commies suggest.

"There should be a system where the representatives of communities implement the will of those communities (which is informed and for the social good) and can be removed by those communities at the drop of a hat. In a way, communism is best expressed as a democracy, with full public accountibility and transparency, where the voter base is well informed and educated."

Too bad it never evolves into that. Power corrupts. Before you know it, vetopower would be taken from the communities.

""Doctors and janitors live exactly the same, though one commits much more of his time, skills, emotion, and energy to benefitting society?""

"Why should a janitor not care as much about his work than a doctor?"

Do I really need to answer this? He (the janitor) should care about his work, but you must understand that the 2 tasks are defined by significantly different demands and crucialness, right? In one, human lives hand in the balance. In the other, trash hangs on the shop floor.

"In my view of communism, the cleaning and basic mainainance tasks would be carried out by the people that work in that environment, with everyone taking two weeks out of the year to do community service (eg: street cleaning and rubish collecting)."

Again, your economic efficiencies astound me. Is this kind of like a reverse vacation?

""Do we all get to chose how we live our lives?? Oh, ok, I want to be a jet fighter pilot, or no, maybe a movie star, or a doctor. I'm sure everyone else won't mind being a ditch digger or toilet cleaner.

I get to make that choice, right?"

As long as you are the best able to fill your position. Your current selfish aims are incompatible with the socially educated masses of ideal communism."

Let me guess,you will implement a "board of career planners" to decide who is good at what, with aptitude tests, iq tests, and the like? Will we assign artists and musicians? Good ones take a lifetime to become great, and that necessitates a carrer doing it. I guess if I am not "good enough: to be an economic analyst, I will be forced to dig ditches for the rest of my life.

I can't wait.

"As I have said before, communism (Marxist) has never been properly implemented in the world. Don't damn that which has never had a proper chance."

China (emerging capitalism)

Cuba (third world nation,but great dentistry!)

USSR: failed

North Korea: in famine

East Germany: failed

Wher, there are 5 attempts, all marxist in originalimplementation, but they always seem to evolve into that good ol' fashioned dictatorship that we all know and love.