Maoist3, the Cowardly Fascist - I'm sick of the totalitarian

[Michael De Panama]

After spending a few weeks away from posting anything really important, I've been observing the rise and popularity of the board's newest closet-fascist. The way he defends his views is quite unique when compared to all our old faves, like Yuri, "lenin", Thine Stalin, and the others.

Rather than defend his own rediculous beliefs, Maoist3 chooses to focus more on attacking the beliefs of the Trotskyites and Mensheviks. The reason I've really stayed out of all of this is that I myself am neither a Trotsyite nor a Menshevik. Whenever confronted with a difficult situation in which he has to defend his beliefs, he avoids it at all costs. Quite similar to the capitalists, isn't it?

So I'd like to play this game a little differently, Maoist fuck. I'm a Democratic Marxist. Had you have been here a few months ago, I would have ripped you apart with the rest of the authoritarians in my rage. Now that I'm back to my fighting spirit, I'd like you to try and defend your rediculous fascist beliefs.

Specifically, I'm going to bring back the same argument I gave the Stalinists. That being that YOU ARE NOT A COMMUNIST. No authoritarian system is communist. Communism is the theory of proletarian unity in a completely class-free society. You are probably less a communist than any of the Stalinists, because you are a Maoist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you probably don't even recognize the proletariat as significant to the survival of a communist nation. After all, Mao certainly didn't. Instead of rallying up the proletariat in a fight to overthrow capitalism, Mao was rallying up the petty bourgeoisie in a fight to overthrow fuedalism.

I've asked the other authoritarians this, the Stalinists. I've asked them what exactly is it about fascism that they disagree with so much that they deny that they are fascist. After much of a stir up, the answer I got was that the difference between them and the fascists was that they were proletarian, and the fascists are bourgeois.

This can not be said about Maoism, since Maoism is also bourgeois. An authoritarian bourgeois system of permanent class division.

So let me ask you, Maoist, what do you see that seperates you from the fascists?

What do you see that qualifies you to be considered "communist"?

I want you to give me an explanation for all of this. I already expect you to try and dodge the question in the oh-so familiar rightwinger style. But don't think I'm going to let you do this, you worthless little shit.

[Turnoviseous]

Yes, I agree with you, but we all know what kind answer you will get.

Mao´s and Stalin´s societies were the most progressive ones. :)

He will add to that that Marx said that the possition of ´wimmin´ is decisive.

He is such an ironic guy. You don´t know if you should laugh or cry.

(Edited by Turnoviseous at 2:22 am on Sep. 2, 2002)

[Nateddi]

depanama:

click link in signature :)

register :)

[Pinko]

Could you not have used one of the many other Maoist3 hate threads for this?

[Anonymous]

I must say it brings me great pleasure in seeing the Opposition so divided. Don't you people realize your all the same? You just use different means to achieve the same bloodsoaked ends.

vile.

[Cassius Clay]

Because I believe in the theory of total abolition of all private property. And why all the hatred towards Maoist 3? He has not insulted anyone to my knowledge, yet you all call him a fascist. This is a disscussion board if I'm not mistaken and the whole point is to debate, yet it seems that whoever may disagree with you is just a fascist.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Cassius Clay on 10:51 am on Sep. 2, 2002
And why all the hatred towards Maoist 3? He has not insulted anyone to my knowledge, yet you all call him a fascist. This is a disscussion board if I'm not mistaken and the whole point is to debate, yet it seems that whoever may disagree with you is just a fascist.

This is a discussion forum therefore anyone is accountable to anyone. Maoist is a fascist, therefore we call him one. :)

[Michael De Panama]

It looks like Maoist3 is doing exactly as I predicted and totally avoiding this thread at all costs in his unsurprisingly cowardly manner. This, Pinko, is why I started a new thread. I'm not going to let the little fascist ignore me without a fight.

Cassius Clay, what are you getting at? This is a discussion forum, and Maoist3 is a fascist. I clearly explained to you why he is a fascist. It is not simply that I disagree with him. It's that he fits the description of a fascist more than he fits the description of a communist.

[suffianr]

DC, the Opposition is not divided, it is diverse. Please stop looking for flaws and weaknesses. Infighting has nothing to do with the fact that capitalists are still the enemy, for want of a better expression. :)

[Marxman]

Dark Capitalist, Maoist 3 is a stalinist, so don't insult us by saying that we are bound to destroy ourselves. We communists are the most peaceful, although you only see through a perspective of stalinist purges and stalinist policy, which havenothing to do with communism. I suggest you throw yourself out or just be a spectator and you might learn something because I see that you haven't got a clue of the real situation. Stalinists and cappies are the same if you ask me, both suppressive for the people and both totalitarian in the end. Maoist3 is a typical illitrate stalinist, who believes is his MIM, which is a total error and shouldn't be on internet as it embarrasses communism and it slanders it again and again. I saw their programme and it's a total contradiction, I almost laughed my ass off when I saw what they consider Marxism is.

[Mazdak]

Maoist3 is the most controlled person on this board. He always answers everything and is very thoroughly. The fact the he doesnt resort to childish insults in his arguments(like the rest of us) is what has everyone upset. I am surprised he hasn't posted yet about this. I defend him!!

[Michael De Panama]

Like I said, with any difficult situation Maoist3 has ever been put in, he does a better job than the capitalists at just dodging the situation entirely.

Where are you hiding, Maoist?

[vox]

Michael,

Good luck! See, if maoist3 does respond to this, nothing you write will matter because he'll simply say you're not a socialist and you sympathize with the capitalists.

Notice that none of the authoritarians seemed to have anything to say in response to my post on this page (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=2022&start=10).

They are a pathetic lot: authoritarians with no authority! Hee!

vox

[Michael De Panama]

Yeah. I saw that, Vox. Check it out:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...ic=307&start=50 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=13&topic=307&start=50)

That's the most I got out of the guy. I don't mean to act a little elitist here, but I'd expect more out of someone who spends so much of his efforts posting propaganda for his organization. I mean, I'd expect at least a little bit of that effort be used to defend his organization and his beliefs.

I hope he can come up with a response for me.

[vox]

"That's the most I got out of the guy. I don't mean to act a little elitist here, but I'd expect more out of someone who spends so much of his efforts posting propaganda for his organization."

Damn, that's pretty bad. And I don't think you're being an elitist at all. People who spout barbaric fascism and call it socialism should be able to defend their obscene rhetoric. It's not being elitist to disagree with a system that sets up an unaccountable privileged class "in the name of the people" but doesn't allow the people a voice.

I think that's just being a socialist.

vox

[Turnoviseous]

Maoist3 is the guy who missed the Communist Manifesto. Maoist3, I suggest that you read it in order to understand ABC of Marxism.

[CheGuevara]

Maoist3 and the MIM are a little loopy. However, you're almost as loopy, talking about creating a massive worker's movement and peacefully removing the capitalist system. Haha, good one.

By the way, is he supposed to spend all day on this forum, waiting to respond to your accusations?

(Edited by CheGuevara at 11:54 pm on Sep. 3, 2002)

[Xvall]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 8:04 am on Sep. 2, 2002
I must say it brings me great pleasure in seeing the Opposition so divided. Don't you people realize your all the same? You just use different means to achieve the same bloodsoaked ends.

vile.


Does ignorance run in your ideology? Seriously. How many people here without the word STALIN, MAO, or some other refrence to a wacked out dictatorship here actually support death? If we wanted bloodshed we would be cheering on George Bush and supporting an invasion on Iraq.

[CheGuevara]

Well, unlike my friend Drake, I'd love nothing more than to paint the walls red with capitalist blood.

[Nateddi]

ditto cheg

[vox]

Drake asks: "How many people here without the word STALIN, MAO, or some other refrence to a wacked out dictatorship here actually support death?"

SN does:

"I am addicted to slaughtering communists, and god help you if I ever was given a 50 Caliber and tasked with such a job."

(Source (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=912&start=10))

vox

[Mazdak]

Welcome back to the board then CheGueverra, you seem to be a little less soft then the ultra libertarians that overran this board.

[new democracy]

this is page THREE and no response from maoist3.

[vox]

Cheg wrote: "I'd love nothing more than to paint the walls red with capitalist blood."

Nateddi then agreed with that.

I have to wonder about people like this, for this has nothing to do with the liberation of humanity from the bonds of capitalism but only with glorifying murder, and make no mistake, they're talking about murder. This wasn't presented as any sort of last resort option regarding a specific situation. Rather, it was offered as a cheer, a dream, a fantasy vision.

So I want to ask you folks: why so eager to murder?

vox

[CheGuevara]

Capitalism is murder. If you want to call killing capitalists murder, fine. I'll sink to the level of capitalistm in order to get rid of it. I make no pretensions about being a morally upright human being.

[vox]

Cheg,

I never had the illusion that you were a moral person, but that's not the issue.

Why are you so very eager to kill?

vox

[El Che]

Honestly depanama I dont know where you find the patience to put up with authoritarians of the worst sort, but I do, ocasionaly, enjoy following the beatings you give them. A word of caution though, some of these guys might be mentaly unbalanced so I wouldn`t go telling people where I live if I where you.

vox: what CheG wants is revenge, its easier to gun down the opposition than it is to just stand up for your beliefs. Its also more matcho. As for the ability of CheG., and the ones like him, to actualy solve the problem (i.e bring about socialism, which is no easy task) I have serious doubts. Not that cruel people can`t be intelligent, they can. But cruel people make for bad socialists.

[Xvall]

Don't get me wrong CheG. I would like to see George Bush dead just as much as you would. I'm simply discrediting Dark Capitalist's stupid beliefs that all communists have some sort of innate desire to kill everyone.

[peaccenicked]

Vox is right killing capitalists is not the name of the game, the goal is a classless society. Not exterminating people but classes. Communists hate violence but are
unlikely not to promote self defence, self defence is not about brute thirst for blood, it is about doing what is required to defend ourselves if we are attacked. Marx undestood this, even more libertarian Maoists have understood this. Maoist 3 is just a brain washed monster, who has not an elementary understanding of human decency never mind communism.
Revenge is a childish sickness. All this defence of brutality and lashing out at a so called called ultra libertarians is basically moronic and a disgrace to the name of socialism. I wonder what people are doing here indulging in blood lust when the main ideological enemy of anti imperialism is blood lust. The stalinists are as sick as the war mongers.
I dont want pussy foot about with phoney 'unity', these
morons are a sheer embarassment to our cause.

[vox]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. I was beginning to wonder about this place.

I think that El Che and Peacenicked are right: it's about revenge and bloodlust. Didn't Marx say something about capitalism oppressing the capitalist as well as the proletariat, for in the place of human relationships we are, through the economic system, bound instead by a cash nexus?

vox

[Mazdak]

Oh boy, this nplace is going to hell. The capitalists are more than willing to kill us, and they have the means with which to do so. You are a dreamer. If revolution with no violence was possible, i would support it, but it isnt. They enemy needs to be destroyed completely. The fact that you wouldn't even let the leaders of the capitalist sheep is apalling.

[Marxman]

Interesting. Still no response from the MIM unscrupulous Maoist3. His tendeny can be seen on this MIM site and I must tell you, it's totally childish and laughable. Like I said, it only does damage to the communist movement as it defends the goddamn acts of MAO and others like him. And what vexes me the most is that they claim they are true Marxists/Lenists! They are true stalinists and I can smell their tendency from a mile away. Saying that you're a marxist and then you claim that the peasantry must make the revolution is like saying that you're a cappie who wishes to liberate the proletariat. No damn stalinists like that are going to fool me or other true marxists who wish to liberate the suppressed people and make a genuine socialist revolution.

[CheGuevara]

Oh, those poor, oppressed capitalists. Boo fucking hoo. Give me a break, Vox, you bleeding heart liberal piece of trash. No, I don't want to kill every capitalist. But a few bloody deaths of the particularly big or brutal capitalists could server as a good morale booster, and also serve to advance our fundraising ends.

[Nateddi]

Vox / CheG


"Capitalists" by my knowledge implyed corporate and government heads, not people supportive of the capitalist ideology. I am not for thought policing, but I am for swift and needed justice.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:18 pm on Sep. 5, 2002
Oh boy, this nplace is going to hell. The capitalists are more than willing to kill us, and they have the means with which to do so. You are a dreamer. If revolution with no violence was possible, i would support it, but it isnt. They enemy needs to be destroyed completely. The fact that you wouldn't even let the leaders of the capitalist sheep is apalling.


Please expalin, WHO a capitalist in your simplistic world is. The times of the big bad cigar smoking factory owner are history. Do you want to kill every stock holder? Or manager? Most managers are technically part of the working class. Mazdak, the capitalists don't want to kill you, they want is to buy you!

[CheGuevara]

I don't draw the line at corporate heads. I'd whack some smaller level cappies(i.e. small factory owners) if they were particularly exploitative and it could serve the revolution. And some managers too, even if they're not at the top of the individual business food chain. But no, I didn't mean believers in the capitalist ideology. Although it wouldn't hurt to kill off some prominent capitalist mouthpieces as well.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 10:07 pm on Sep. 5, 2002)

[vox]

"But a few bloody deaths of the particularly big or brutal capitalists could server as a good morale booster, and also serve to advance our fundraising ends."

And some folks think that Bush wants to attack Iraq, at least in part, for reasons of domestic politics. It seems that you approve of such methods.

"Oh, those poor, oppressed capitalists."

Socialism demands the liberation of ALL people from the chains of capitalist social relations, not just the people you may personally like. If you don't understand that, then I have to wonder what, exactly, it is you support other than revenge.

vox

[Anonymous]

Corporate armies

[peaccenicked]

This thread is outrageous. Mazdak is a desparate fool hanging on to the last gasps of Stalinism. Call me (I am Sparticus)white liberal trash. Cheg is not much better. Sanity is fucking beyond your reaches.

Why dont you idiots try to talk to somebody and stop wasting our time here? At least the capitalist supporters
are wankers without pretension. They honestly wank.
You cowards use 'communism' to mask your narcistic
irrational violence towards your self and our class.

[CheGuevara]

Aaaaaaaaaa, must stop cutting myself. Must stop self-mutilation. Must stop!

What the fuck are you talking about, ancient bleeding heart liberal piece of crap #2?! If you're going to take weak whacks at us, fine, but what the hell is the crap in that last sentence. And no, Peacenik, you may not cut and paste something for your response.

[peaccenicked]

Go and fuck yourself you empty headed bastard.
The reason why you will never get anywhere is because you have never listened to another human being in your life.
You are here to defend murder.
You are criminally insane and getting off on it.


(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:24 am on Sep. 6, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

Uh oh, Peacenicked panicked and didn't cut and paste. Look what happened!

[peaccenicked]

You could not find any words.


I will use every weapon to expose your idiocy.

(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:32 am on Sep. 6, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

Ok, you keep on playing with your buddy Charles Grandison Finney/Vox.

[RedRevolutionary87]

"Oh, those poor, oppressed capitalists."

Socialism demands the liberation of ALL people from the chains of capitalist social relations, not just the people you may personally like. If you don't understand that, then I have to wonder what, exactly, it is you support other than revenge.

vox


actualy socialist is justice for the working class, the proleteriat, its jusitice for the economic majority. the factory owner, the employer is not constricted by capitalism, hes got what he needs, socialism just means less money for him, so there is no way for socialism to make him hapier. socialism is not a humanitarian church funded movement to feed people, it is simply to bring about whats best to the proleteriat.

[peaccenicked]

Comrade. I dont know where you get your information from. Certainly not DAS CAPITAL. All Marx asks for is society to be run on a sound economic basis. If that excludes humanitarianism it includes private property. Marx explains this overtly.
Do you want me to ''cut and paste'' the references again.
The interests of the proletariat are to end class society, all Marx says is that the working class can act as a universal class until it abolishes classes.
Killing people to do this proves private property not its abolition.
THIS IS ABC COMMUNISM. Something Stalinists know nothing about.

[vox]

"actualy socialist is justice for the working class, the proleteriat, its jusitice for the economic majority."

This is true as far as it goes, but I don't think you go quite far enough. It is, in the final analysis, justice for everyone, for socialism demands a classless society. The proletariat will no longer exist in a socialist society. The proletariat was created by capitalist social relations.


"the factory owner, the employer is not constricted by capitalism, hes got what he needs, socialism just means less money for him, so there is no way for socialism to make him hapier."

Wait, are you denying the anti-human nature of capitalism? Do you argue that it is only economic success that makes a person happy. I certainly hope not, and I think Marx would agree with me. One of the very worst aspects of capitalism is that, due to its reliance upon consumerism, it creates a consumer culture that expects material goods to bring happiness and wants to exclude anything else.

As Marx and Engels wrote: "[The bourgeoisie] has resolved personal worth into exchange value, and in place of the numberless indefeasible chartered freedoms, has set up that single, unconscionable freedom — Free Trade."

Marx fully believed in the free development of people, something that is not possible in a capitalist society, even for the capitalists themselves.

"socialism is not a humanitarian church funded movement to feed people, it is simply to bring about whats best to the proleteriat."

You're right, it's not a church funded movement, but it is a humantarian movement in that it places the relationships of people above the relationships of production. One might even go so far as to say that socialism is a humanism.

vox

(Edited by vox at 11:35 pm on Sep. 5, 2002)

[Valkyrie]

Absolutely!!! Production was created for the needs of the people, not the opposite way around. Marxism is intrinsically humanitarian.

[peaccenicked]

The problem linguistically is that "totalitarianism'' and ''humanitarianism'' where not in the currency of the words used by Marx or Engels or any of the early socialists including the utopians. We are left to see Marx through a modern prism, but only an idiot or someone who wants to imprison thought for any reason whatsoever, can deny the spirit of freedom and its universalism in his works.
What is appaling is that those who criticise the blackening of these thinkers, and the reduction of their truths and insights, the real status of those who championed Liberty are still held to account by fake apologists for mass murder. We need murder like we need capitalists,
that is not at all. Every bone in an early socialist body despised Wars and State killing. Revoluionaries knew
that "capitalism was dripping in blood from head to foot''. They had no intentions to add to it. Stalinism should teach us that the pioneers were right to the core and no supposed or real social gain can be sustained on the blood of those that fell foul to the new fledgling system rightly or wrongly. Especially when it was mostly wrongly and nothing to do with real self defence.

Our blood is universal, there is no glory in anybodies death.

[El Che]

Its good to see this issues discussed because I always knew they where there. Its clear that in Che-lives, as in life, there is a profound devision between the Marxist left. Each side looks at the other not only as being wrong but also as actualy being an obstacle for Socialism. There is no way around this, one can not call for unity with these people, that would clearly be a mistake. Just goes to show you that your political enemies are not all right of the border.

[Valkyrie]

Yeah, One really has to read the entire collective body of Marx's writings to understand the scope of what he proposed and moreover the pragmatism of why he proposed it; he certainly didn't just dream it up as a tentative hypothesis for people to pick out which parts are specifically accomodating to them. And with that, he has GOT to be the most taken-out of context and slanderized thinker of the 20th century.

If one is not reading anything pre German Ideology, they are missing the whole humanistic concept of man being alienated from himself by his own labor and that being beyond any kind of Economic class struggle as a whole. The class struggle always is retained, however when class is broken down to it's most sub-atomic part - the individual is the symbiotic process of the whole structure. Not one should be servile to the system of capitalism.

I would suggest further reading past the Communist Manifesto and Das Kaptal to the earlier works of the 1844 and Paris Manuscripts.

www.Marxist.org

[Valkyrie]

Actually....

www.marx.org/archive/marx/works/index.htm

[Michael De Panama]

Shit man. I leave for a little while and all these pages pop up. We're on page 6 now and still no response from Maoist3.

What I'm going to do is if the little fascist pops up anywhere else, I'll immediately order him to this thread. He probably won't respond, but I still feel obligated to throw a fit about it to him. You know?

[new democracy]

de panama, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maoism/ . if maoist3 run away there, you will have plenty like him.

[Marxman]

Maoist3, still no response. Not even a defensive posture? Most typical for stalinists. But we genuine communists must behave ourselves and control our hatred to cappies, otherwise we are no better than Bush who kills 100s of civilians for breakfast. Like I said, the first step is to read, read and reas marxist books. I can give you an advice. When I started reading marxist books, my eyes opened more than ever and questions became answered one by one. For a starter, I suggest a book called "Russia:from revolution to counter-revolution" by Ted Grant. This topic is meant for Maois3, I know but it's still a sound advice for books anytime. It is true that fascists are stalinists and Maoist3 more than once proved that he is the one.