WHY WE SHOULD NOT SUPPORT MAOIST STRUGGLES?

[Turnoviseous]

This is the answer to maoist3 on question of supporting maoist struggles. I won´t be answering on this question anymore, this is last and I mean LAST time I am answering you on this question.

WHY WE SHOULD NOT SUPPORT MAOIST STRUGGLES? :

-Maoist struggles seem to be carried by minority, to have on start support, but not majority of people, struggles are also not carried out by participation of working class.
This kind of struggles mostly lose their support because of terrorist activities by the maoists (kindnapping,..)

-If people become disillusioned by their false policies and methods they will side with the reactionary forces.

-If capitalist crissis went so far that people are so disillusioned by capialism that they are ready to support any alternative to capitalism, struggle might be successful.

-If struggle is successful it will be soon destroyed because of following things:
1.) Maoist struggles take place only in Third world countries where countries are depended on imports.
2.) Maoist policies do not support Leninist internationalism and that won´t bring any other revolutions.
3.) Therefore Maoist policies and methods can not result in wokers´ democracy and their rule is therefore despotic rule of one man, which results in an increase of repelling of workers of other countries.
4.) Because of all these things, state will become isolated. And because there is no more successful Stalinist countries that would give them money for development (Like USSR did for Cuba), country will end in capitalist restoration (ussually it becomes fascist regime).

And all this because of their false policies and methods used by Stalinists and Maoists and their betrayal to Marxism.

(Edited by Turnoviseous at 8:40 pm on Sep. 1, 2002)

[maoist3]

maoist3 replies for MIM:

People will notice the above is a HUGE DODGE.

Go here:
http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...ic=906&start=10 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=906&start=10)

That's where the question originated. Rather than answer the question, Turno started a new thread, as part of a conscious effort to make people forget the context of discussion.

The question I asked was not which Maoist armed struggles he supports. And if you check I have now asked him THREE times. The question was if there are ANY that he supports.

But you see, in Trotskyist sect-training school, they ONLY teach Trotskyists how to criticize and invent scriptural disputes. They don't teach any record to stand on, so naturally they squirm and worm to avoid the questions about what THEY support for armed struggle.

When I come here I speak plainly of countries, times, stats and comparisons. Trotskyists can only criticize and are not able to speak plainly. Every single fact of the real world requires them to play one word game to get out of the facts. Then they play another word game to change the subject. Then they play another word game to interest people in something completely "new."

[Turnoviseous]

Maoist3, I think that I answered clear enough about how much Maoist armed struggles I support. And what I said is not ultra-Menshevism. Did I say something about class-collaboration? Did I say that people should ally with bourgeoisie, no. On the contrary, I think that revolution is absolutely needed and possible, but not in the way you are doing it. Without Leninist policies there will be no success, maoist3.



[b]And there is one big thing, Maoist3. You haven´t told us, why we should support Maoists in their struggle?

(Edited by Turnoviseous at 9:15 pm on Sep. 1, 2002)

[Cassius Clay]

How can you not support the various Maoist guerrilla wars going on in South America and South East Asia? They represent a alternative to what in most cases are just US puppet regimes. In Nepal the guerrilla's are gaining support from peasants and workers (who I beleive went on a strike a few months ago) and increasing the area under their controll.

What are you going to say to a Nepalese (spell) worker who risks his life (and that's no understatement) by going on strike? 'Oh sorry although I'm a Marxist I think you should just be happy with the repressive regime you live under now because Maoists have committed atrocities 30 years ago in that big place to the north'.

[Turnoviseous]

Quote: from Cassius Clay on 10:04 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
How can you not support the various Maoist guerrilla wars going on in South America and South East Asia? They represent a alternative to what in most cases are just US puppet regimes. In Nepal the guerrilla's are gaining support from peasants and workers (who I beleive went on a strike a few months ago) and increasing the area under their controll.

What are you going to say to a Nepalese (spell) worker who risks his life (and that's no understatement) by going on strike? 'Oh sorry although I'm a Marxist I think you should just be happy with the repressive regime you live under now because Maoists have committed atrocities 30 years ago in that big place to the north'.

Cassius Clay, as I said, these Maoists are commited to failure. (Look my first post here).

The thing to do is to establish a genuine workers´ movement, to educate masses and workers about Marxist ideas, to show them the right way and lead them to take power.

With the Maoist methods working class will receive only major blows in the fight against the bourgeoisie. I sympathize with Maoists, because they fight against capitalist oppression, but I must say that their methods are wrong and with these methods all they can do is to overthrow capitalism, but not give power to workers, nor they can uphold the regime (read my first post again).

If there was a genuinue Leninist party in these countries the movement would have a guaranteed power. Not long ago there was established a Leninist movement in Argentina:

http://www.marxist.com/revolucion_en_ameri...rica_latina.asp (http://www.marxist.com/revolucion_en_america_latina.asp)

You can read here also about Indonesia:

http://www.marxist.com/indonesia.asp

There you have something about Latin America as a whole..

http://www.marxist.com/latinamerica.asp

There is also a good article about Venezuela:

http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/venezuela_c...crossroads.html (http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/venezuela_crossroads.html)

I said that I am giving credit to Maoists for fighting against capitalism, but most of their policies are not good and anti-marxist (in organizing the struggle,..), which can be decesive.

(Edited by Turnoviseous at 11:07 pm on Sep. 1, 2002)

[Cassius Clay]

Well that's your opinion that they are committed to failure. But i disagree 100%, they afterall have both history on their side aswell as a strong moral reason for fighting. They not only fight the Nepal govt backed and armed by the US, but a reactonary Communist party backed by China who also fund the Monarchy there.

To put it simply they are the only hope for the Nepalese people. You say that you don't support their 'Methods', the Maoists in Nepal are one of the few guerrilla groups in the world whose reputation is not ruined by such things as kidnapping and atrocities (to my knowledge anyway). And remember a Revolution is no tea party.

However I assume you share my opinion on groups such as 'The Shining Path' who are nothing more than a bunch of 'Pol Pot's'.

[Turnoviseous]

Quote: from Cassius Clay on 11:56 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
Well that's your opinion that they are committed to failure. But i disagree 100%, they afterall have both history on their side aswell as a strong moral reason for fighting. They not only fight the Nepal govt backed and armed by the US, but a reactonary Communist party backed by China who also fund the Monarchy there.

To put it simply they are the only hope for the Nepalese people. You say that you don't support their 'Methods', the Maoists in Nepal are one of the few guerrilla groups in the world whose reputation is not ruined by such things as kidnapping and atrocities (to my knowledge anyway). And remember a Revolution is no tea party.

However I assume you share my opinion on groups such as 'The Shining Path' who are nothing more than a bunch of 'Pol Pot's'.

Nowadays times are different, as I said. There is no more USSR to support and give technology to these Third World countries. But that is not decesive, that is only decesive in their case, because they want to actually come to power and not give power to workers. I support them, because they contribute to overthrowing of capitalism, but I said that working masses must be present and play leading..... In maoist struggles there is no working masses (as far as I know)....
So actually they fight for overthrow of capitalism and for their power...