76% in Spain, 87% in Germany, 80% in in China, 78% in US: what do they have in common

[cyu]

Quote from http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/may2008/ineq-m20.shtml

"The FT/Harris poll found overwhelming majorities throughout Europe expressing the view that the social chasm between the financial elite and the rest of the population has grown too large. In Spain, for example, 76 percent said that social inequality had grown too great, while in Germany the figure was 87 percent.

In China, which has become the low-wage manufacturing center of the world, subjecting millions of workers to exploitation while producing a new class of billionaires and multi-millionaires, 80 percent said that inequality in income was too great.

In the United States, the most socially unequal of the advanced capitalist countries, those who believe the gap has grown too wide are 78 percent."

[La Comédie Noire]

Substantial majorities of those responding in all eight countries where the poll was conducted expressed the belief that the social chasm will only grow wider over the next five years, while by equally large margins they expressed their support for raising taxes on the wealthy and lowering them on the poor.


They should've taken a poll on whether or not they believed reforms could solve the problem. I'm interested to see how many people still hold on to the old order.

[mykittyhasaboner]

^^good idea

In the United States, the most socially unequal of the advanced capitalist countries, those who believe the gap has grown too wide are 78 percent."
really? i would have never guessed. i would have doubted that the amount of consumerised, brainwashed citizens there are in america, would have even realized that there is such a thing as social inequality in the US.

[BIG BROTHER]

well, this explains why many people have hope for the "change" that Obama say's he's going to bring.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The all to prevalent "looking down our nose" at the "unwashed masses" on this board reeks of liberalism and needs to be eliminated.

Communists understand that people's ideas and outlooks are developed by their life and surroundings. We don't attack our fellow workers for possessing a false consciousness which was instilled into them by the capitalist parasites. Instead, we struggle against that, to help our fellow workers develop the class consciousness which exists within all of them to some extent or another.

[Holden Caulfield]

The all to prevalent "looking down our nose" at the "unwashed masses" on this board reeks of liberalism and needs to be eliminated.


i dont think anybody was, i think the comrades were expressing the view, which i also hold, that the american public are class conscious in such large percentages as mentioned.

i was certainly shocked by the figures and would express the same opinions as has been already and i am one of the 'unwashed masses'/plebs/working class so it isnt looking down our noses at all its a shock but a good one,

realisation of the problems and the realisation that Obama dont have no answers could push the population of America to the left which would be super

[Raúl Duke]

i would have doubted that the amount of consumerised, brainwashed citizens there are in america, would have even realized that there is such a thing as social inequality in the US.

It doesn't really suprise me... (especially in PR, where people know that things are "fucked up" yet the middle class, both those that work and the petit-bourgeoisie, falls for the reformist trap while the working class seems to be demoralized.)

The deal here is that people do little about it (in the framework of the status quo) or believe that voting for a xyz candidate would make everything better.

They just aren't sure/ready/know of/etc of the revolutionary alternatives.

This:


They should've taken a poll on whether or not they believed reforms could solve the problem. I'm interested to see how many people still hold on to the old order.

Would have been more interesting.

[Spasiba]

This is very interesting, I had no idea Americans would have responded that well. Well how many and where were these people polled?

And another question, how do we go about increasing class consciousness?



realisation of the problems and the realisation that Obama dont have no answers could push the population of America to the left which would be super


I'm voting for him (assuming he gets the ticket). 1 because I'm young and excuse myself for being naive, 2 because if wins, by the end of his presidency, assuming he isn't God and nothing has changed I can say, "see, this man promised change, and what has happened? Electing these guys wont change a thing! Ever!" of course people may just think the republicans can do it, or if he's shot people will say 'oh, if only he were still here" and so the system perpetuates further... but yeah, I'll do what I can with him as an example of reform not working.

[Module]

well, this explains why many people have hope for the "change" that Obama say's he's going to bring.

In regards to what Comrade Floyd has said, I think that it's the rejection of this 'old order', (at least subconsciously?) that makes Obama's quasi-religious rhetoric - "Change we can believe in" so effective.
An inclusive pronoun gives the feeling of encompassing change for people who feel forgotten as a community, or as a people.

Maybe people are growing a little sick of 'America' as an exclusive title, where they realise the glory isn't extending past the state itself.

[cyu]

As far as voting goes, here's what I wrote yesterday to a young anarchist deciding whether she wanted to vote or not at http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylv=3?qid=20080518211847AA9Kk75

I vote - but don't put all my hopes in the current election process, because it's dominated by money and wealthy donors. The main reason I vote is not to support a candidate, but to prevent a worse candidate from getting into office.

The candidate that is less friendly to your political ideals is more likely to try to suppress it. So if you want your movement to succeed, you'd want as few of these people in power as possible.

The main work has to happen outside the election campaign process. It happens in direct actions, organization of unions, spreading of ideas - the goal of voting (at least within the current system) is just to have a candidate that won't stand in your way as much as the other guy.

[La Comédie Noire]

And another question, how do we go about increasing class consciousness?



I'm voting for him (assuming he gets the ticket). 1 because I'm young and excuse myself for being naive, 2 because if wins, by the end of his presidency, assuming he isn't God and nothing has changed I can say, "see, this man promised change, and what has happened? Electing these guys wont change a thing! Ever!" of course people may just think the republicans can do it, or if he's shot people will say 'oh, if only he were still here" and so the system perpetuates further... but yeah, I'll do what I can with him as an example of reform not working.

Answered your own question mon frere.

We should be discrediting Bourgeoise politics anyway we can. If Obama were to win and all his promises turned out to be nothing, which they will, it would show the American Public all politicians are assholes who adhere to one plan, even assholes with a good image.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

"see, this man promised change, and what has happened? Electing these guys wont change a thing! Ever!"

You could say that, with more authority I may add, if you didn't vote at all. Voting in the U.S. is like masturbating.. the only difference being that you actually get fucked in the former (no matter who wins).

Communists look at class forces. Both of the parties in the U.S. are capitalist parties. They represent the interests of the bosses, which seek to keep us as their slaves. The Democrats are no better than the Republicans, and never have been. Democrats oversaw the gutting of welfare, the invasion of Viet Nam, the bombing of Yugoslavia, etc., etc., etc. Any gains workers have made in the U.S. were born out of their struggles. Everything workers ever got we wrestled from the hands of the bourgeoisie by force. It wasn't given to us by one set of capitalist politicians that just happened to be 'not as bad' as another.

Our job is to point out that voting is nothing more than choosing which agent of the bosses is going to rule over us, and that we need real change; not to support liberal lesser-evilism


i dont think anybody was

"consumerised, brainwashed citizens there are in america" ? What is that?

Anyway, I don't know why there's so much suprise. Inequality is more extreme in the U.S. than any other imperialist country. You think those of us on the bottom don't realize that.. even though many currently resign themselves to thinking "that's just the way things are"?


And another question, how do we go about increasing class consciousness?

Organize, educate, and organize some more.

[Holden Caulfield]

they think that Obama has the answers seems like they are under false impressions to me,

[Colonello Buendia]

one must wonder as to the number of really class conscious people there are in these countries. the only way to use this ill feeling is to show that the least evil candidate is still a neo-liberal twat (not only Obama, but most politicians) it is crucial that we as radical leftists get to these people and help them to dispell any notion that Obama can bring change.