Most Horrific Dictatorship - Decide which one....

[Borincano]

Pick your top 5 worst dictatorships!:

Mines:

Adolph Hitler
Germany 1932-45

Pol Pot
Cambodia 1975-79

Rafael Trujillo
Dominican Republic 1930-61

Papa Doc Duvalier
Haiti 1957-71

Nicolae Ceaucescu
Romania 1974-89[b]

(Edited by Borincano at 6:18 pm on Aug. 31, 2002)

[Mazdak]

Fidel? Mao? Il Sung? Horrific dictatorship. You've got to be kidding me....

Why not George Bush or Ronald Reagan

OR ARIEL SHARONE
?!

[Borincano]

Mazdak,

I'm going to add some leaders, because I agree with you.

[Mazdak]

Pinochet? You put Castro but not Pinochet.

[Borincano]

Mazdak,

Pinochet is there. He's the 11th one on the list.

[Nateddi]

this is a tough one,

where the hell is syngman rhee? or the shah in iran?

[Borincano]

Nateddi,

I think Reza Pahlavi was a Shah of Iran.

Anyway, I'm going to change the rules of the thread, lol. Just pick you top five worst dictatorships, ok? ;)


(Edited by Borincano at 6:18 pm on Aug. 31, 2002)

[new democracy]

zaire changed its name back to congo. and the guy that overthrow muboto, kabila is a dictator much like muboto. about nicaragua, you mentioned only one of the somosa dynasty. there were three.

[Borincano]

Quote: from new democracy on 6:20 pm on Aug. 31, 2002
zaire changed its name back to congo. and the guy that overthrow muboto, kabila is a dictator much like muboto. about nicaragua, you mentioned only one of the somosa dynasty. there were three.

I already know all this. I got most of the name from thedictatorship.com. It was kind of way of shortening the list. Now look at the new rules and pick your 5.

[Mazdak]

Papa Doc. However i could think of far worse then him. Hitler could come second or first...

[new democracy]

1)MAO
china 1,949-1,976
2)the son of Papa Doc Duvalier(i don't remember his name)1,971-1,986
haiti
3)lucanshko 1,994-
byelorussia
4)mengistu(i don't remeber his full name) 1,974-1,991
ethiopia
5)Meles Zenawi 1,991-
ethiopia

[Nateddi]

LOL lukashenko is #3 for you! He is not even a dictator. He is only called a dictator by extremists on the liberal scale, because his elections are almost as fair as the american ones.

ps. learn to spell his name

[Moskitto]

My list of 5 most evil people of all time is

1. Pol Pot
2. Adolph Hitler
3. Leopold II (How can someone who killed 10million+ people be ignored by everyone)
4. Iosif Stalin
5. Lothar Von Trothar (although, not actually a dictator, just a military commander)

[Nateddi]

ok my least favorite dictators:

#1 - Mao (although I liked him at first as a revolutionary, he did very questionable things as an elder)

#2 - Mugabe (i don't need to say anything else)

#3 - Pinochet (the only dictator to lead to an overthrow of a fully democratic system)

#4 - Stalin (killed too many people)

#5 - Kim il Sung (terrible economic policies degraded his country into being one of the worst in the world )

[American Kid]

Mm, yes. Tough one.

Joe Steel first comes to mind. And yes, morbidly, he had the "stats".

But I always go with Pol Pot. He seemed to go one step beyond. The guy was attempting time travel. Disturbing.

-AK

[man in the red suit]

Idi Amin of Uraguay.

[Nateddi]

I just realised,

4/5 of my dictators were all communist dictators :o

[Son of Scargill]

I believe you mean Uganda,mitrs.


What about god? I know he's imaginary,but he has a bad dictatorial record...not enough peace on earth,too much"smite thee down,unbeliever."

[Turnoviseous]

-Mao (Enemy of working class)
-Stalin (Enemy of working class)
-Hitler (Enemy of working class)
-Mussolini (...)
-Napoleon (...)

[Red Revolution]

On Humanitarian Issues, the worst are probobly

1. Adolph Hitler (1933-1945)
2. Many leaders of Imperialist Japan (1926-1945)
3. Ioseph Stalin (1926-1953)
4. Pol Pot (1975-1979)
5. Benito Mussollini (1923-1943)

[new democracy]

didn't lenin took food from peasants that resists him? if this is true i replace the son of Papa Doc Duvalier with lenin.

[Nateddi]

... right

lenin who started the NEP would somehow find which peasants didn't like him to steal food from them. lol

[pastradamus]

1 Hitler(it would have to be)

2 Papa Doc Duvalier,haiti (evil son of a *****)

3 Rafael Trujillo,Dominican Republic (brainwashed a nation)

4 Idi amin,uganda (africas hitler)

5 pol pot,cambodia (mass collection of victims skulls,plain sick)

6 Oliver Cromwell,England (not a dictator,but murdered half of Ireland)

7 Josef Stalin,USSR (murderer of the poor,working class & liberty)

8 Jean Claude 'Baby Doc' Duvalier,haiti (gettin worse than his ol' man)

9 Agusto Pinochet,chile( destroyed a promising nation)

10 Kim Il Sung,korean peoples republic (threw his country into the dark ages)

& thats my list.

[Mazdak]

Oliver cromwell? Not a dictator?!!!

ND- i do believe Papa Doc's son was called "baby doc."

Pol pot, i would say if it were not for his actual vision. If he hadn't taken such a racist turn, he would have been amongst the best communist leaders but he was narrowminded and even more paranoid than the 1953 Stalin.

[pastradamus]

technically he wasnt,but he had as much power as the god damn king.

[new democracy]

Quote: from Nateddi on 2:27 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
... right

lenin who started the NEP would somehow find which peasants didn't like him to steal food from them. lol

i saw it in my history book.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from pastradamus on 8:53 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
technically he wasnt,but he had as much power as the god damn king.


Cromwell was the lesser of two evils. He overthrew a monarchy remember...

If we are to exclude monarchs and leaders whose rise to power was at least partially democratic:

#1 Pol Pot (Cambodia)
#2 Mao Tse-Fung (China)
#3 Idi Amin (Uganda)
#4 Joseph Stalin (USSR)
#5 Kim Il Sung (North Korea)
#6 Saddam Hussein (Iraq)
#7 General Abache (Nigeria)
#8 Fulgencio Batista (Cuba)
#9 Nicolas Ceausescu (Romania)
#10 Augusto Pinochet (Chile)

That list omits Hitler, Mussolini, Mugabe and Daniel Malan amongst others as they were at least partially democratic.


(Edited by guerrillaradio at 12:48 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)

[Xvall]

i saw it in my history book.

LOL. I hope you don't believe EVERYTHING in your History Book, especially if you live in the United States. If your History Book told you that the Vietnam War was a good thing, would you believe it? Oh.. Wait..

[Moskitto]

Slobodan Milosevic shouldn't be on that list, he was way more democratic than Hitler, He was criticized by the press in his own country, he won elections by a realistic margin, and he gave up the election he did lose quicker than Al Gore, he was only a dictator in the same way as Richard Nixon was.

[new democracy]

drake, i am from israel.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Mazdak on 11:53 pm on Aug. 31, 2002
Fidel? Mao? Il Sung? Horrific dictatorship. You've got to be kidding me....

Why not George Bush or Ronald Reagan

OR ARIEL SHARONE
?!


Because those are not dictatorships, genius.

[Capitalist Imperial]

1) Stalin

2) Hitler

3) Pol Pot

4) Moa Se Tung

5) Napoleon

Honorable Mention: Palpatine

[Ymir]

Lenin didn't take food from "peasants". The peasants your history book mentions were most likely the Kulaks, a group of resistant land owners.

[Nateddi]

@ND
israel = america's client state

lenin = leader of a party (bolsheviks) that was made up overwhelmingly by atheist non-zionist jews. Atheist non-zionist jews have been involved with communism very tightly in the first half of the 20th century. its obvious that a fascist american client state made up of religious zionist jews will be very unfavorable of communism.

@mazdak

you've got to be fucking kidding me. you cannot compare death-squad dictators that have killed millions (save castro, thousands) with leaders elected through fair elections. You can make a point on reagan's destructive imperialist foreign policy, but the rest is bunk.

(Edited by Nateddi at 12:15 am on Sep. 2, 2002)

[new democracy]

i know that why do you telling me that?

[Stormin Norman]

Yeah Nateddi, don't you realize that New democracy is classified by many as the self hating jew. He represents the most liberal elements of the Israeli state. Like many of the liberals in America, everything his country does is seen by him as being an atrocity. If I was one of his countrymen, I would demand that he immigrate to Canada, where his sort of nonsense will be accepted with open arms.

[maoist3]

The top five dictatorships of all time are all U.$. imperialist dictatorships of the globe.

1) The U.$. Republocrat dictatorship in Third World land (1945- )

2) The U.$. Republocrat dictatorship in global pollution (1945- )

3) The U.$. Republocrat dictatorship against Third World trade unions (1945- )

4) The U.$. Republocrat dictatorship in Third World health-care (1945-)

5) The U.$. dictatorship at home, where it imprisons more people per capita than any other country since Stalin during war time.

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/freecoun.html

1) An eight digit figure of people die EVERY YEAR because of the brutality of U.$. imperialist support to semi-feudal landlord regimes around the world which starve peasants and export food to North America and Western Europe.

2) Millions die each year thanks to Amerikkkan advertising for cigarettes and sanctions against countries that refuse to import them. Amerikkkans also stand against treaties against global warming or any other sensible regulation--thus killing millions more through water and air pollution.

3) U.$. military aid goes to tin-pot dictators ranging from Rhee to Pinochet in order to crush trade unions that might actually be able to win a struggle for the essentials of life. This holds back life in the cities, yes, killing people who cannot make it because of the backward work conditions Amerikkkans enforce globally.

4) U.$. sanctions go on countries such as Bangladesh if they do not import all Amerikkkan drugs instead of focussing health care money and education on the drugs that will help the public most.

5) Despite calling themselves a "free country" and winning the support of the big mouths on this bb who uphold u.$. imperialism relative to Stalin and Mao, the United $tates actually has more prisoners both total and per capita than any country in the world.

For the many who listed Stalin and Mao as top dictatorships, try to explain how people voluntarily and consensually die before their times by the millions EACH YEAR you idealist defenders of imperialism! Get over your petty-bourgeois fears of being shot after going to Stalinist prison for shooting off your ignorant mouths! More than 100 times more people have died from Amerikkkan force.

(If you don't know how to read a mortality table or understand a life expectancy, you are talking out your ass!)

[Mazdak]

Nateddi- now you know why i asked if you were a creationist? You claim to be authoritarian yet you seem to criticize Castro and other authoritarian leaders? Ha!

[Nateddi]

>>Nateddi- now you know why i asked if you were a creationist?

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...ic=360&start=60 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=13&topic=360&start=60)

I believe I have a well thought out hypothesis on why you believed so in the link above. What exactly does this have to do with Mr. Castro? Enlighten me.


>>You claim to be authoritarian

Based on the results of two separate political tests, I am noticeably more authoritarian than you are. Check the link above.


>>yet you seem to criticize Castro and other authoritarian leaders? Ha!

I have never criticized Castro on this forum, if you disagree, search and try and quote me when I have. Yes, I have shown reprehension to the leaders that killed millions. So have the supporters of those leaders. Kryuchkov supports Stalin for his great achievements, not condoning him for mass murder.

I simply find it hypocritical that someone compares death-squad dictators that killed millions (mao, stalin, etc) to democratically elected presidents of nations that have ideologies you do not support. I do not support capitalism. I am a vehement opponent of Reagan, Bush, and the fascist Ariel Sharone. However, I try to keep my analysis of critical world leaders as objective as possible. This is why I condemn Stalin’s and Mao’s atrocities despite the fact they had similar views for a society as of myself. I am authoritarian in the aspect of my support of a one-party political system that does not impose liberal position on social values.

[Lefty]

sing it, nateddi!
sock it to those stupid people
*backs off slowly while being pelted by garbage*

[Lefty]

yeah, nateddi! sock it to those stupid bastards! rah rah rah

*backs out as he is pelted with garbage*

[boadicea88]

#1 Ariel Sharon
#2 Batista
#3 GW Bush
#4 Nixon
#5 Reagan

Mazdak is right, CI; Reagan, Bush and Sharon are worse dictators than the ones you mentioned.

[Nateddi]

>>Mazdak is right, CI; Reagan, Bush and Sharon are worse dictators than the ones you mentioned.

Care to back that up with some objective analysis. As i have said, i vehemently oppose such leaders; however they are uncomparable to those that kill millions. All this does is make the left seem very hypocritical.

[boadicea88]

Quote: from Nateddi on 9:16 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
>>Mazdak is right, CI; Reagan, Bush and Sharon are worse dictators than the ones you mentioned.

Care to back that up with some objective analysis.

Ok, ok, I admit, that was biased, I personally hate those 3 people. But I do think that if not worse dictators, or even on the same level, they are/were pretty damn bad. Sharon I think is almost as bad as Hitler, simply due to his unrelenting massacre of the Palestinian people. And Bush&Co have started several wars without the consent of Congress and/or the people. Reagan I had no authority to comment on, as I truly don't know the first thing about him.
My apologies to CI and everyone else who found fault with what I posted.

[Anonymous]

1. Mao
2. Stalin
3. Hitler
4. Pol Pot
5. Mugabe

[Moskitto]

Why does no one mention Leopold II? He was way more brutal than Milosevic, Castro, Sharon and Co. And he certainly killed more than Pol Pot and there is a chance he could have killed more than Stalin or Hitler making him second biggest mass murderer of all time (After Mao).

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Moskitto on 11:24 pm on Sep. 1, 2002
Slobodan Milosevic shouldn't be on that list, he was way more democratic than Hitler, He was criticized by the press in his own country, he won elections by a realistic margin, and he gave up the election he did lose quicker than Al Gore, he was only a dictator in the same way as Richard Nixon was.


OK fair enough...I've edited it accordingly.

The ten worst democratic leaders:

#1 Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1933-45)
#2 George W Bush (USA, 2000 - )
#3 Daniel Malan (South Africa, 1952-7)
#4 Ariel Sharon (Israel, 2000 - )
#5 Benito Mussolini (Italy, 1922-43)
#6 Slobodan Milosevic (Serbia, 1991-2000)
#7 Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1978 - )
#8 Harry Truman (USA, 1945-50)
#9 Ronald Reagan (USA, 1982-8)
#10 Margaret Thatcher (UK, 1979-90)

(Edited by guerrillaradio at 1:03 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)

[pastradamus]

Quote: from guerrillaradio on 10:23 pm on Sep. 1, 2002

Cromwell was the lesser of two evils. He overthrew a monarchy remember...

If we are to exclude monarchs and leaders whose rise to power was at least partially democratic:

#1 Pol Pot (Cambodia)
#2 Mao Tse-Fung (China)
#3 Idi Amin (Uganda)
#4 Joseph Stalin (USSR)
#5 Kim Il Sung (North Korea)
#6 Saddam Hussein (Iraq)
#7 General Abache (Nigeria)
#8 Fulgencio Batista (Cuba)
#9 Nicolas Ceausescu (Romania)
#10 Augusto Pinochet (Chile)

That list omits Hitler, Mussolini, Mugabe and Daniel Malan amongst others as they were at least partially democratic.


(Edited by guerrillaradio at 12:48 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)


You obviously havent a clue about what that fuckface did to my country.

Even if he did overthrow the monarchy,he was still a cruel enough fucker at that.


ps,the whole mussolini thing,Im not talking bout u GR ,but sum people had the guy in their top 5,Mussoilini was only harsh in his treatment of communists really.
I dont think u can put him on the levels of mao,stalin,hitler,pol pot, or the Idi amin's of the world.

[Nateddi]

heil pinochet :biggrin:

http://www.smev.de/flags/images/06-150.jpg

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from boadicea88 on 5:13 am on Sep. 2, 2002
#1 Ariel Sharon
#2 Batista
#3 GW Bush
#4 Nixon
#5 Reagan

Mazdak is right, CI; Reagan, Bush and Sharon are worse dictators than the ones you mentioned.


Wow, another scholar.

By definition the people you mentioned were not dictators. Perhaps you and Mazdak should have studied harder in Poli-Sci 101.

Come back when you undestand at least the fundamentals of government ideology.

Besides, comparing these men to people like stalin and pol pot, who directly killed millions brutally, is a show of ignorance at best.

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 11:06 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)

[new democracy]

why ariel sharon is a dictator: he is baning arab knesset(israeli parliament) members(to find out more go to ( http://www.azmibishara.info/petition.html ), he is killing innocent palestinians, capitalism is undemocratic and it is a elite dictatorship(note: dictatorship doesn't have to kill people everyday or limit freedom of speech to be a dictatorship, it is just have to be undemocratic), and he created a law that says that could be cities or villages only for jews which mean he is created apartheid.

(Edited by new democracy at 11:21 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)

[Capitalist Imperial]

From Maoist 3...



1)" An eight digit figure of people die EVERY YEAR because of the brutality of U.$. imperialist support to semi-feudal landlord regimes around the world which starve peasants and export food to North America and Western Europe."

That is the responsibility of local leadership, don't try to find a scapegoat in the US, we are merely a customer, and can't be held responsible for local policy toward regional constituencies worldwide.

2) "Millions die each year thanks to Amerikkkan advertising for cigarettes"

yes, those advertisements are fatally dangerous, nasty papercuts

"and sanctions against countries that refuse to import them."

again,it is the US's fault that people die because their source nation can't import tobacco? that is merica's fault? Is individual responsibility a concept lost on communists? oh, what am I saying? of course it is, That is one of your fundamental rules, to disregard responsibility

"Amerikkkans also stand against treaties against global warming or any other sensible regulation--thus killing millions more through water and air pollution."

America stands against those treaties because they disproportianally charge developing nations for environmental clean-up initiatives while said nations do not contribute a comensurate level of pollution that they are being charged for.

3) "U.$. military aid goes to tin-pot dictators ranging from Rhee to Pinochet in order to crush trade unions that might
actually be able to win a struggle for the essentials of life. This holds back life in the cities, yes, killing people who cannot make it because of the backward work conditions Amerikkkans enforce globally."

America is not in the business of commercial extortion. We improve local economies in which we do business. Unlike china or the soviet union, forced labor is not our policy. US Commerce abroad is a voluntary venture for all those involved.
You are perpetrating propoganda.

"4) U.$. sanctions go on countries such as Bangladesh if they do not import all Amerikkkan drugs instead of focussing health care money and education on the drugs that will help the public most."

The US does not impose sanctions simply because a given nation does not buy all of its product. Where do you get this B.S.?

5) "Despite calling themselves a "free country" and winning the support of the big mouths on this bb who uphold u.$. imperialism relative to Stalin and Mao, the United $tates actually has more prisoners both total and per capita than any country in the world."

Unfortuately, one of the detriments of capitalism and free democracy are conditions conducivee for people to committ crime for economic gain.

However, US prisoners are punished for infringing upon other's rights, and being a danger to society, not mere political dissidence. An extensive prison system used to contain dangerous criminals is no comparison to the slaughter of millions with opposing political views and call it "progress".

"For the many who listed Stalin and Mao as top dictatorships, try to explain how people voluntarily and consensually die before their times by the millions EACH YEAR you idealist defenders of imperialism! Get over your petty-bourgeois fears of being shot after going to Stalinist prison for shooting off your ignorant mouths! More than 100 times more people have died from Amerikkkan force."

Where did you learn math, at the mao se tung re-education center?

Your dogmatic claims hold little water. Stop using distorted US history statistics (if you can call them that) to draw attention away from the atrocity that has been communism in practice. The practice that in fact holds the world-record for direct, unjustified homicide.

You are a liar.

(If you don't know how to read a mortality table or understand a life expectancy, you are talking out your ass!)


(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 11:46 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)

[boadicea88]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 3:03 pm on Sep. 2, 2002

Quote: from boadicea88 on 5:13 am on Sep. 2, 2002
#1 Ariel Sharon
#2 Batista
#3 GW Bush
#4 Nixon
#5 Reagan

Mazdak is right, CI; Reagan, Bush and Sharon are worse dictators than the ones you mentioned.


Wow, another scholar.

By definition the people you mentioned were not dictators. Perhaps you and Mazdak should have studied harder in Poli-Sci 101.

Come back when you undestand at least the fundamentals of government ideology.

Besides, comparing these men to people like stalin and pol pot, who directly killed millions brutally, is a show of ignorance at best.

(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 11:06 pm on Sep. 2, 2002)


Stalin did not kill 'millions brutally', he got gundreds of thousands. That's nowhere near millions.

Neither Mazdak nor I have taken college courses yet (I don't think he has), but I am enrolled for this fall. Nor am I allowed to take poli-sci till next term.

[Capitalist Imperial]

OK, I was being fasiscious.

I know that you understand the difference between dictatorships and democracy, and that you were just making a point about what you commies call "imperialism".

However,I maintain my position that your comparison is innacurate and unfair. And it is generally accepted and documented that stalin and pol pot killed at least 10 million combined (not including conventional war deaths).

[boadicea88]

Oh- combined. i see. However I also already admitted that my comparison was inaccurate.

[kidicarus20]

Capitalist Imperial is a fucking dumb ass. Theres a big difference between murder and let die through a political system. For instance, millions of farmers died in the soviet union due to the incompetence of stalin and his farming policies as well as the economic system of the soviet union (see a video called "stalin" for an interesting yet short explanation of his farming policies that were so destructive, highly biased, but not stupid), however the soviet union made changes over time. Hitler directly killed about 6 million jews, they were targeted, and destroyed by the government. If there were two people on the island and one of them decided to take the small amount of food on the island and keep it for himself he is not directly killing the other one, merely being selfish, which is what capitalists tell us people are supposed to do. Stalin rounded up and wrongly executed about 900,000 people, hitler killed thousands more,
and reagan directly targeted and took out nicaragua for political purposes. Nicaragua went to the World Court, which condemned the US for international terrorism and violation of treaties.

Reagan was a political fascist, just like pinochet, and fascists are dictators.

I think it's an interesting question, but sort of bland.
Stalin wasn't responsible for the fall of the soviet union, if a stalin had been in power in the 70's and 80's it would still be standing today.
And when Hitler first came into power he wasn't all that bad, wasn't all that good and a racist but had some good policies. What's interesting about Hitler is he was one of the only politicans on the right who could motivate people and get them cheering in masses. Most republicans can't speak worth a damn.
Look at ronald reagan "if you've seen one redwood, you've seen them all "and he'd talk about made up welfare queens and shit, and bu$h speaks in tautologies "i know what i believe, and I believe, what I believe, is right" and stumbles all over the place, he can barely speak English.






(Edited by kidicarus20 at 3:20 am on Sep. 3, 2002)

[Moskitto]

I think Stalin and Pol Pot killed way more than 10 million combined, I'd say 20 million for Stalin, 2 million for Pol Pot.

Rummel thinks Leopold killed 2 million but the real figure is over 10 million, but there's suggestions that he killed 25 million.