Draft

[gla22]

For the U.S citizens on this board what do you think a draft would do to our cause?

[cenv]

Obviously it would help plant the seeds for unrest... but the seeds are already there to some extent; capitalism has created so many problems. Draft or no draft, the left has a lot of issues to sort out before revolution is plausible.

[mykittyhasaboner]

the government would have to close off all borders for one, you have any idea how many people would flee?

[gla22]

I think we'd see a movement larger than the 60's, big enough to be the catalyst for revolution.

[Dros]

For the U.S citizens on this board what do you think a draft would do to our cause?

We'd probably get some support. There would be a lot of really intense struggle over that.

[mykittyhasaboner]

I think we'd see a movement larger than the 60's, big enough to be the catalyst for revolution.
perhaps, thats a good possibility. the problem is, i dont think the US needs a draft. they do a damn good job at brainwashing their citizens into joining the military. but if they did, id bet that they would drastically restrict liberties(more than they already have) in order to make sure that nobody flees the country.

[Ultra-Violence]

BRING THE DRAFT BACK! DAMIT!

i follow chomsky on this issue ever since they took away the draft our military has becom a mercenary army only the really desperate and lost people join em or crazy whackos and thats how we got in iraq also the draft makes it a "peoples" army and i think we all know that if we still had the draft we wouldnt be in iraq right now or it wouldve of been twice as hard to get thier!

[gla22]

Look I might sound crazy but this country needs to go right before it can go left. Things need to get bad before any real change will occur. Thats what i hate about the U.S system, It isn't bad enough to destroy itself and we can get a good system, and it is not moving towards anti-capitalism so it will never become good. Catch-22 if I ever saw one.

[EscapeFromSF]

BRING THE DRAFT BACK! DAMIT!

i follow chomsky on this issue ever since they took away the draft our military has becom a mercenary army only the really desperate and lost people join em or crazy whackos and thats how we got in iraq also the draft makes it a "peoples" army and i think we all know that if we still had the draft we wouldnt be in iraq right now or it wouldve of been twice as hard to get thier!

I think the draft failed to prevent the Vietnam War. As the war dragged on, it was certainly a catalyst for the anti-war movement, but it failed to prevent the war.

If I recall correctly, Chomsky argues that the draft--equally applied--means that people of all socioeconomic classes would be subject. Even with college exemptions, the draft added an urgency to a movement that crossed class lines. When they went to an "all-volunteer" army, that removed the coercion from all but the lowest classes, the people who have few other prospects.

The elite are well aware of all this; they will never reinstitute a draft for a phony emergency.

[EscapeFromSF]

Look I might sound crazy but this country needs to go right before it can go left. Things need to get bad before any real change will occur. Thats what i hate about the U.S system, It isn't bad enough to destroy itself and we can get a good system, and it is not moving towards anti-capitalism so it will never become good. Catch-22 if I ever saw one.

I hate to tell you this, but you do sound crazy.

This country has been going right pretty much since Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Things are already bad, and there's a decent chance they'll get significantly worse within the next two years. Jobs for the working class that actually paid a decent wage have all been exported. Middle class wages have been largely stagnant by official statistics (and Harper's recently published an article that unmasks those). Fuel prices are skyrocketing, there are food shortages around the world (in addition to the usual starvation that we change the channel on), and food riots. There were reports of people hoarding rice in this country. And every "progressive" that has ever been in power has simply done the minimum they thought they could get away with to avert a revolution (see Howard Zinn, A People's History of the United States).

[gla22]

^^^^^
yeah I read zin in history class.
I can't agree with your statement that the U.S has been great since FDR. I don't see it that way. Empire building, U.S imperialism, constant covert and overt warring. But I see your point on things getting worse. A draft though would completely change the revolutionary situation in this country.

[Ultra-Violence]

I think the draft failed to prevent the Vietnam War. As the war dragged on, it was certainly a catalyst for the anti-war movement, but it failed to prevent the war.
^^^^^
True but imagine we still had the draft today do you think people would of so quickly jumped on the war band-waggon? of course we would never know but i would hope so

[gla22]

Today i think people would be quicker to react after the Vietnam experience.

[abrupt]

I am not a US citizen, but I do not see a draft happening.

They went into Iraq with less troops for many purposes and they loved the consequences. One being so mercenaries that are not army affiliated and are hired guns for the American companies like Blackwater can thrive. Those merc's are basically above the law as there is no law there, and they can get away with anything.

Also they wanted to create chaos, and then say 'we have no troops to stop it'.
The US disembanded the Iraqi army aswell, now there is hundreds of thousands of people no longer with work and know where all the weapons caches are, and they are ungaurded.

The US likes how it is going in Iraq, they don't want more troops really.

[Peacekeeper]

BRING THE DRAFT BACK! DAMIT!

i follow chomsky on this issue ever since they took away the draft our military has becom a mercenary army only the really desperate and lost people join em or crazy whackos and thats how we got in iraq also the draft makes it a "peoples" army and i think we all know that if we still had the draft we wouldnt be in iraq right now or it wouldve of been twice as hard to get thier!
Man's got a point.

[piet11111]

iraq is not meant to be won ever.

the americans want it to remain like this for as long as they can by adjusting the amount of troops there to make sure that the insurgents never get too weak.

this way they excuse their occupation and the money they make with their "rebuilding" and "protection" rackets.
war means profit and people dying is advertisement for why their services are necessary.

[gla22]

you might be right. People are making a killing on the Iraq war. Pun not intended but it works.

[Spasiba]

There won't be a draft, if there was though, the war would end because of unrest here.


iraq is not meant to be won ever.

the americans want it to remain like this for as long as they can by adjusting the amount of troops there to make sure that the insurgents never get too weak.

this way they excuse their occupation and the money they make with their "rebuilding" and "protection" rackets.
war means profit and people dying is advertisement for why their services are necessary.


IDK, I mean, who is making all the money right now, you see how much money is being spent every day, and its huge, but is anyone even really profiting anymore?

[3A CCCP]

For the U.S citizens on this board what do you think a draft would do to our cause?

They may be scum, but they're not stupid in Washington! If there was a draft there never would have been an invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, or Yugoslavia.

No draft = No real internal resistance to American imperialism.

Reinstatement of the draft = Immediate nationwide mass demonstrations

Americans are so apathetic that as long as Washington doesn't make them go into the military they will allow the imperialists to do whatever they like.

Communists in America lost their big chance in the 1960s and 1970s. With mass racial unrest combined with mass demonstrations against U.S. imperialism in Vietnam they could have had a shot at toppling the capitalist system. Unfortunately, the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements were single-cause crusades and not combined under the worker's banner. Both causes were led by social democrats who were trying to work within the system.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[ellipsis]

It would certainly give the VT secession movement some more support. If people had to choose between joining the resistance and going to fight a war they don't believe in, what do you think they would choose. As long as there is a viable, supportive mass social movement, draft dodging and resisting looks pretty good considering the alternative.

[piet11111]

There won't be a draft, if there was though, the war would end because of unrest here.




IDK, I mean, who is making all the money right now, you see how much money is being spent every day, and its huge, but is anyone even really profiting anymore?

the united states are bleeding money yes but the corporations are making money like never before.

the iraq occupation is one big sponsorship of american business at the expense of the iraqi and american people.

the only more direct way of giving taxpayers money to business would be by just giving it away.