Revlefters and NEFAC

[nvm]

I see many revlefter anarchists from the United states and stuff and I was wondering , is anyone of you a member of NEFAC?
I have met NEFAC people here in Montreal and NEFAC is one of the few Anarchist organizations that I respect a lot.
anyways what are your views on NEFAC?

[AGITprop]

I agree. Not to insult any of you anarchists, but other than NEFAC, the anarchist movement in Montreal is...crap.

NEFAC are very active I look forward to working with them more in the future, though they kinda looked upset when we joined their ranks during the last demo with our Soviet flag :)

Anyway, something else I've noticed is that here in Montreal, there are a lot of 'lifestylists' amongst those who consider themselves anarchists. Basically people who completely alienate themselves from society by sitting around in tattered clothing covered in spikes with huge mohawks to tell society 'fuck off'. I'd like to know what Anarchists here feel about these lifestylists. And also what other anarchists feel about lumpenproletariat, as many of these 'anarchists' are of that social caste.

I like anarcho-communists and platformists, well at least the ones I've met so far. They are probably some of our best allies, even more so than some of the other communists here, especially other Trotskyist organizations that are full of faded out academics who just write.

BTW For those of you who don't know, NEFAC is the North Eastern Federation of Anarchist Communists.

[welshboy]

I'm an anarcho-communist and spent a fair part of my youth wearing scruffy clothes and telling society to fuck off whilst having a daft haircut.
Great days so they were.
A thriving alternative scene that can feed into a decent political milieu is a positive thing in my opinion, well so long as you can counter the occasional dick head who thinks that anarchy is all about getting drunk and smashing windows.
It's also quite amusing seeing the confusion on peopples faces when they see a group of anarchists that contains regular looking folks and people who identify themselves as part of a sub-culture.
As far as Lumpen proles go I'm pretty sure that I fall into that category and it does influence my politics as I have great amounts to gain from a revolution.
btw are you using Marx/Trotsky's original definition or the modern usage i.e. welfare recipiants and the homeless?

[Die Neue Zeit]

Welfare recipients aren't lumpenproles. Most are workers looking for jobs. Some still "cheat" by deriving their income from welfare and aren't bothering to look for work; they're lumpen (lumpenproles, lumpenbourgeoisie, and lumpen).

[Forward Union]

I agree. Not to insult any of you anarchists, but other than NEFAC, the anarchist movement in Montreal is...crap.

Don't you mean in the world? :p

My view on NEFAC is that they are one of the best explicitly anarchist organisations in the world. Along with the OCL in Chile, the OAE in Greece, AKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AKI&action=edit&redlink=1) in Turkey, OSL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSL) in Argentina, the Federazione dei Comunisti Anarchici (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federazione_dei_Comunisti_Anarchici) (FdCA) in Italy, the Coletivo pró Organização Anarquista em Goiás in Brazil, Grupo Qhispikay Llaqta in Peru, ACL in Mexico and the ZACF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabalaza_Anarchist_Communist_Federation) in South Africa.

And VOCAL (Oaxacan Voices Constructing Autonomy and Freedom)

We have also set an organisation up in England called Liberty and Solidarity which I feel shares alot of political analysis and practical outlook with these organisations.

[Devrim]

We have also set an organisation up in England called Liberty and Solidarity which I feel shares alot of political analysis and practical outlook with these organisations.

It will be just like the AWG all over again. What was it old Hegel forgot to say?


...AKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AKI&action=edit&redlink=1) in Turkey

I have heard they are defunct.

Devrim

[getfiscal]

NEFAC are very active I look forward to working with them more in the future, though they kinda looked upset when we joined their ranks during the last demo with our Soviet flag :)You might find it interesting to know that one of NEFAC's major writers (Wayne Price) is an ex-Trotskyist. He writes about this in his book "The Abolition of the State." (He was supposed to be at the book fair this weekend but unfortunately did not make it.)

I personally respect NEFAC a lot, too. My only big criticism of them is that they actively campaign against voting. I think that voting for social-democratic parties is probably better than not voting, as long as you don't waste a lot of time thinking about it either way. There is a shortage of democracy, not an excess of it. It seems better to try and get people to be political in a non-reformist way, rather than trying to get them to be anti-political.

[The Feral Underclass]

We have also set an organisation up in England called Liberty and Solidarity which I feel shares alot of political analysis and practical outlook with these organisations.

Liberty and Solidarity? That's a rubbish name!

[AGITprop]

Liberty and Solidarity? That's a rubbish name!

You're such a troll.

[Forward Union]

You might find it interesting to know that one of NEFAC's major writers (Wayne Price) is an ex-Trotskyist. He writes about this in his book "The Abolition of the State." (He was supposed to be at the book fair this weekend but unfortunately did not make it.)

I personally respect NEFAC a lot, too. My only big criticism of them is that they actively campaign against voting. I think that voting for social-democratic parties is probably better than not voting, as long as you don't waste a lot of time thinking about it either way. There is a shortage of democracy, not an excess of it. It seems better to try and get people to be political in a non-reformist way, rather than trying to get them to be anti-political.

Hmm. That's certainly a fair criticism. It doesn't matter if people vote or not so there is no point in trying to alter that process. People will stop voting as a result of increased class-conciousness, which can only come about as a result of our pro-action.

It's something I hadn't considered, but I do agree 100%. I would also add that most people are very cynical of voting, if they bother atall, and it's simply the lack of alternative that holds the sham in place.

[Devrim]

My only big criticism of them is that they actively campaign against voting. I think that voting for social-democratic parties is probably better than not voting, as long as you don't waste a lot of time thinking about it either way.Hmm. That's certainly a fair criticism. It doesn't matter if people vote or not so there is no point in trying to alter that process. People will stop voting as a result of increased class-conciousness, which can only come about as a result of our pro-action.

It's something I hadn't considered, but I do agree 100%. I would also add that most people are very cynical of voting, if they bother atall, and it's simply the lack of alternative that holds the sham in place.

Platformism's next step, Vote Labour, but build a fighting 'anarchist' alternative?

Devrim

[The Feral Underclass]

You're such a troll.

And you're irrelevant.

[#FF0000]

And you're irrelevant.

And that was petty.

Back to the thread:

NEFAC's the only anarchist organization in my general area that I'm really impressed with. I've been meaning for the longest time to get some people together and get to joining.

[The Feral Underclass]

I've been meaning for the longest time to get some people together and get to joining.I'll do it tomorrow seems to be the standard attitude of most activists. Platformists don't like lazy people...

[AGITprop]

And that was petty.

Back to the thread:

NEFAC's the only anarchist organization in my general area that I'm really impressed with. I've been meaning for the longest time to get some people together and get to joining.

Sounds like a good idea if you think they are the most progressive in your area.

TAT has a point though (and he usually does when he's not being a troll). No point in putting it off. Just be sure if you join your serious about it and everything should be fine.

PS woot, post #800. :)

[Forward Union]

Platformism's next step, Vote Labour, but build a fighting 'anarchist' alternative?

Devrim

No way, vote conservative, they're more likely to win. And Im an oppertunist.

[Devrim]

No way, vote conservative, they're more likely to win. And Im an oppertunist.

You said you 100% agreed with the poster who advocated voting labour. What should we think?

To me there is an internationalist current within anarchism. It is in our opinion a revolutionary current, even though we disagree with it on many things.

If we look at a group like the UK AF, they stand in agreement with the communist left on many issues. They see that parliamentarianism has nothing to offer the working class, they see that national liberation struggles have nothing to offer the working class, and they see that there are problems in the whole idea of 'revolutionary unions'.

To that extent, I we find ourselves in solidarity with the AF. If a group like the AF were to send a delegate to Turkey, we would do our best to organise things for them. That would include of course hospitality, helping them make contacts, and organising public meetings (according to our ability i.e. in Ankara) for them.

Of course, if we organised a meeting like this for the AF ( and we would provide direct translation), we would also feel free to argue our own ideas. We would also, on behalf of our comrades in the AF, and to facilitate a good discussion, invite people like the anarchist railway workers (who are reasonably important in Turkey) etc. These are things that are possible between comrades.

To those who think that 'voting for social-democratic parties is probably better than not voting', we don't consider them comrades, and wouldn't have anything to do with them.

Devrim

[Forward Union]

You said you 100% agreed with the poster who advocated voting labour. What should we think?


Actually I said I agreed with the criticism. I meant in reference to NEFAC bothering to campaing against. In order to clarify I added

"It doesn't matter if people vote or not* so there is no point in trying to alter that process. People will stop voting as a result of increased class-conciousness, which can only come about as a result of our pro-action*"

*It cannot improve, nor deteriorate situations

*Revolutionary Pro-Action.

Hope this clarifies things.

[Hit The North]

To those who think that 'voting for social-democratic parties is probably better than not voting', we don't consider them comrades, and wouldn't have anything to do with them.

Devrim

So that's a sizable section of the working class you'll be turning your nose up at then.

[Hit The North]

People will stop voting as a result of increased class-conciousness,

Whereas in the real world it tends to be the most atomized, demoralized and least class conscious sections of the working class who don't vote.

The idea that voter apathy is a reflection of class consciousness, neglects to say which class interest is represented by that consciousness.

Next someone will be arguing that workers who refuse to join their trade union is a result of revolutionary class consciousness :rolleyes:.

[Raúl Duke]

On the East Coast NEFAC seems to be quite an interesting organization.

I wish we had something like it in Florida....SEFAC?

Although I heard that in NYC, Providence, Boston, etc there are other groups....(like the NYMAA) they sound pretty good but I wonder if they let in primitivists, etc in their ranks? (at least NEFAC doesn't...since it explicitly states "anarchist communists")

[Devrim]

So that's a sizable section of the working class you'll be turning your nose up at then.

We are discussing political organisations not individual workers.

Devrim

[Devrim]

Whereas in the real world it tends to be the most atomized, demoralized and least class conscious sections of the working class who don't vote.

I don't think that this is in any way true. It is true that that some who are 'atomized, demoralized and least class conscious' don't vote. Many class militant class conscious workers don't vote either though. You are right though that levels are voter apathy in non way directly correlate with class consciousness.


The idea that voter apathy is a reflection of class consciousness, neglects to say which class interest is represented by that consciousness.

It is the crux of the matter isn't it. I'd say that in your country both Labour and Conservative parties represent the bourgeoisie.

That's why I wouldn't vote.

Devrim

[Red October]

On the East Coast NEFAC seems to be quite an interesting organization.

I wish we had something like it in Florida....SEFAC?


I'm a little too far south for NEFAC too, and we could really use good anarchist organizations down here. Next time I'm in New York I'd like to get in touch with some NEFAC people.

[AGITprop]

I'm a little too far south for NEFAC too, and we could really use good anarchist organizations down here. Next time I'm in New York I'd like to get in touch with some NEFAC people.

Thats sounds like a good idea.

I'm really hoping to get to know more of them here on a working basis.

They seem very serious, as they have weekly branch meetings, and even organize based on democratic centralism, though they don't call it that. :)

[DancingLarry]

[quote=Devrim;1151076]You said you 100% agreed with the poster who advocated voting labour. What should we think?

The revolutionary thinks that there's no meaningful difference between voting Tory and voting Labour.