Capitalism goes hand in hand with Racism and Sexism

[Spiritual Minded]

I'm collecting material for an essay. If you got some links or something, hook me up... peace

[canikickit]

this strikes me as complete bullshit.
what makes you think this. post up a few of your own thoughts on the subject.

[anti machine]

"As long as capitalism exists so will the problem of racism"-martin Luther king, jr.

Dont think this is the exact wording, but definitely a good one for an essay.

[Pinko]

Capitalism loves nothing more than cheap labour. An oppressed minority that cannot get other jobs can have its wage level dictated by the corporations.
Following alleged equality for blacks in the US, labour was farmed out the the lowest bidder. Hence the Sweatshop of the developing world was popularised.
People living in a capitalist societey that endorse products made in such a fashion are complicit in institutionalised racism. The work is farmed out to a captive labour force that are often killed or beaten for trying to gain some rights.
As for sexism. capitalism is a conservative beast that only likes change that brings inceased profit. It is built on the back of an old-boys network, these people are responsible for the difficulties women have in breaking into these positions of responsibility. You don't see that in a communist country.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Pinko on 12:59 am on Aug. 30, 2002
Capitalism loves nothing more than cheap labour. An oppressed minority that cannot get other jobs can have its wage level dictated by the corporations.
Following alleged equality for blacks in the US, labour was farmed out the the lowest bidder. Hence the Sweatshop of the developing world was popularised.
People living in a capitalist societey that endorse products made in such a fashion are complicit in institutionalised racism. The work is farmed out to a captive labour force that are often killed or beaten for trying to gain some rights.
As for sexism. capitalism is a conservative beast that only likes change that brings inceased profit. It is built on the back of an old-boys network, these people are responsible for the difficulties women have in breaking into these positions of responsibility. You don't see that in a communist country.

The US was the birthplace of the womens lib movement! The US is known for its strong women, and progressive stance on womens rights!

Much, much more so than Europe!

This is complete BS!!!!

[Spiritual Minded]

The US was also the birthplace of The Civil Rights Movement. What point did you proove? lol! As for my own thoughts; to have those on top you need those at the bottom. Women and 'colored people' are systematically being discriminated against in the capitalist world. I've read the Marxist perspectives in the book "Sociology Themes and Perspectives the 4th Edition by Haralambos and Holborn" and I know there is plenty with evidence, so I appreciate the feedback.

[Anonymous]

Yeah...you commies are so innocent.

[Spiritual Minded]

I'm not a communist. I sympathize with a lot of what Marx said, yes, but in some very important aspects my philosophy differ from communsim.

[Pinko]

"The US was the birthplace of the womens lib movement! The US is known for its strong women, and progressive stance on womens rights!
"

Jesus, you are so up your own arse.
In the UK, a key text for the feminist movement (A Vindication of the Rights of Woman by Mary wollstonecraft) was written in 1792. Before that was Mary Astell (1666–1731), who campaigned for women's rights and set forth some proposals for a women's college. She died without seeing her dreams realised.

In the US the movement was started by Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucretia Coffin Mott, Susan B Anthony and others, in a women's convention at Seneca Falls (1848). Although before that (around 1776) there was a failed campaign by Abigail Adams and Mercy Otis Warren to include women's emancipation in the US constitution.
Argentina was quite the world leader in women's rights, in 1926 women won the first batch in a series of rights (including contracts without their husband's concent and child custody for widdows). This women's rights movement went hand in hand with the socialist movement (in fact Che Guvara's mother was a key player in the movement).

So get your facts right before you open your mouth.

[reagan lives]

I'll tell you who has their heads up their asses...

Pinko
"Capitalism loves nothing more than cheap labour."
Close, but no cigar. Cheap and expensive don't matter to capitalists (note that I've changed the form of the noun to make more sense, since an economic system can't exactly "love" anything in the first place). Cheap and expensive imply some sort of standard that doesn't exist. Capitalists are interested only in EFFICIENT and INEFFICIENT. In the free market, money flows constantly towards efficiency. Those who make economic decisions based on anything other than this will lose. An employer who decides who to hire based on any other fact besides which candidate will produce the most for the wage he's offering has made a very poor capitalist decision. There's nothing more color blind than the dollar bill. So, actually my friends, racism and sexism are strongly discouraged in capitalism, which might explain the success of the Civil Rights and Women's Lib movements in America. Does anyone want to discuss race relations in the former Soviet Union?

Spiritual Minded
"As for my own thoughts; to have those on top you need those at the bottom. Women and 'colored people' are systematically being discriminated against in the capitalist world. I've read the Marxist perspectives in the book 'Sociology Themes and Perspectives the 4th Edition by Haralambos and Holborn' and I know there is plenty with evidence"
Well, I'd sure be interested to hear some of that evidence, or at least some actual justification for your ideas here. I mean, the argument you're presenting in this paragraph goes like this:
1. To have those on "top" you must have those on "bottom."
2. Women and minorities are "systematically" discriminated against.
3. Some Marxists bashed America in my Sociology text book.

Could you fill in the blanks a little bit for me here? Why does statement #1 necessitate racism or sexism? Could you elaborate a little bit on #2 (mind you, your rather poor choice of the word "systematically" now requires you to show that the discrimination is both organized and located on a systemic level, aka the government)? I'm sure that this shouldn't be too hard, since the Marxists in your schoolbook provide ample support for their arguments, I'm sure. All I know is that if this is the best you can do, your essay should be a fantastic disaster. If your thesis is something along the lines of "Black people in America make less money on average than white people in America, therefore racism goes hand in hand with capitalism," you're pretty much setting yourself up for failure.

[Pinko]

[regan lives]
"Capitalists are interested only in EFFICIENT and INEFFICIENT"
The most monetarily efficient form of labour is slave labour. Minimal costs, high returns. Which is what sweatshop labour ammounts to, it is one small step awat from slave labour.

EOC report into the wage gap between sexes: http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/news/8_aug_ful...te_pay_gap1.asp (http://www.eoc.org.uk/cseng/news/8_aug_full_findings_of_research_into_graduate_pay_ gap1.asp)

I will come back and add more when I have the time to do so.

[Spiritual Minded]

If your thesis is something along the lines of "Black people in America make less money on average than white people in America, therefore racism goes hand in hand with capitalism," you're pretty much setting yourself up for failure.
No, not along those lines, lol. I didn't come up here to debate this issue, I just wanted people to recommend me some more material. I don't have that time to do that right now, but when I've written this essay I might consider posting it here. ;-)

[reagan lives]

"The most monetarily efficient form of labour is slave labour. Minimal costs, high returns. Which is what sweatshop labour ammounts to, it is one small step awat from slave labour."

That's why we have laws against such practices. Basically, my friend, there are two ways for a laborer to raise his efficiency. He can either do the same work for less money, or more work for the same amount of money. Think about it...when was the last time you or anyone you know of went into a job interview and said "you should hire me because I'll work for $2 per hour less than you're offering." The so-called "race to the bottom" simply doesn't happen in practice. The capitalist will pay the wage to the person who will be the most productive, and if he makes the hiring decision based on anything else (i.e. race or sex), then he's less efficient than he could be, and his business will suffer accordingly.

As for wage gaps, I'm not claiming that race and gender relations in this country are perfect. But they're a lot better than they were 50 years ago. I wouldn't say that they're the best in the world, not because I know of a country where they're better, but rather because it's a stupid kind of thing to say about any country, because you're comparing race and gender relations across cultures. But that's neither here nor there. A wage gap between men and women doesn't prove anything about sexism going "hand in hand" with capitalism.

[Xvall]

The US was the birthplace of the womens lib movement!

LMAO! The USSR (Evil Empire, right?) had womens rights long before the United States did; so did most other 'evil socialist countries'. Even now, in America, many males see women as nothing more that housewives.

[Xvall]

Yeah...you commies are so innocent.

Are you generalizing again? You think communists should be responsible for things that people who claimed they were communists did? So then should we start yelling at German people for the holocaust? Maybe we should presecute the Spaniards for colonizing America, right? As far as I'm concerned, I AM innocent. I haven't killed anyone; and I'm sure anyone you claimed I am 'affiliated with' that killed someone died before I was even born.

[Pinko]

[regan lives]
"That's why we have laws against such practices..."

That is why the labour is farmed out to countries that don't have such laws.

As for your other points, they are fair. Some of my previous statements were ill considered.
Sexism is (at present) inherent to the capitalist system because the capitalist system was formed in a sexist age. Capitalism is a conservative creation, the status-quo is maintianed unless there is more money to be made by change.
Women are less productive than male workers (in the eyes of the capitalist) because they want time off to have children (many of them, not all). Men (in the UK at least) are entitled to far less paternity leave than women are allowed maternity leave. Men are also less likely to take the full alotment of leave. Therefore men will be the prefered employee.
Women on maternity leave are entitled to payed leave (in the UK at least), so an employer has to pay a non-productive worker as well as their temporary replacment.
By your own argument this is true.
"The capitalist will pay the wage to the person who will be the most productive..."
If a woman admits to wanting to start a family, then her job application is at risk. This is institutionalised sexism.

At the moment in the UK, women were entitled to retire five years before a man of equivilant age (state pension starts at 60 for women and 65 for men). Therefore a man will be better value for money than a woman, because you will get five years more labour from them, if it is a job whereby the onset of old age is unlikely to affect poductivity.
Again this leads to institutionalised sexism.
I don't know about retirement ages in the US, but the UK is a valid target of discussion as it is a capitalist nation.

Ageism is a problem in capitalist nations. In the UK the unemployment figures for the over 50 are dispropotionately high. This is because no self respecting capitalist will hire someone in that age bracket. They are considered to be past their pime and they will need replacing in 10 or 15 years, when they retire. It is inefficient, there is better value for money to be found in a younger employee.
Institutionalised ageism.

Racism is harder to prove or disprove, so without any evidence or logical arguement to back up any comment I may make, I will keep quiet on the subject.

So, using your own arguements, I have logically proved that sexism and ageism go hand in hand with capitalism.
I am not saying that they cannot be erradicated, but left with free reign, the capitalist culture (with no restraining legislation) will be sexist and ageist.


(Edited by Pinko at 9:27 pm on Aug. 30, 2002)

[Spiritual Minded]

Good lookin out...^

[Smoking Frog II]

Okay,
As dark cappie kindy pointed out "Yeah...you commies are so innocent. " how would you like to remember that the US is so goddam perfect that before Martin Luther King Jr. came to liberate things, the US were lynching their own people. Yeah Yeah, a rascist country is the best for everyone, doncha agree*?

* I was being SARCASTIC

Also, if us commies are so innocent and communism is so crap for growth of society [etc.], then tell me why at the start of the 20th century Russia was a poor economic country, and yet, at the start of the cold war the Soviet Union was first to get a man in space???

Oh yeah! what a crap society [man, i wanna get this published!]

How do I get promoted from Guerillero?

-------------------------------
Gaffa tape is the secret of thre universe
[and not too expensive!]

You tell the basta'ds out there, Drake Dracoli

[Nateddi]

The Bolshevik Revolution brought russia to be the first country to give complete gender equality in the political system.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Nateddi on 11:00 pm on Sep. 3, 2002
The Bolshevik Revolution brought russia to be the first country to give complete gender equality in the political system.

True, this isn't commie propaganda, I read this in a history textbook.

[Guest]

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