why do you like it!?

[new democracy]

question to the cappis: what do you like so much about capitalism!? it is the injustice? it is the inequality? the wars? the hunger? the poverty? the oppression of minorities? the unemployment? the lack of democracy? the oppression of women? answer me: WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU LIKE ABOUT CAPITALISM!?

[Anonymous]

freedom.

[new democracy]

what freedom?

[Anonymous]

Freedom to accumulate wealth. Own property. And to do as I damn well please with my hard earned money.

[new democracy]

if capitalism is so great why does the workers are against it? and dont say workers are against communism too, because communism dont reflects the aspirations and goals of the working class. here is what workers think of capitalism(malte, i know it is consider spamming, but this is a great argument against capitalism):

A COAL MINER'S CALL FOR REVOLUTION

By Vic Roberts



Vic Roberts is a retired coal miner in Taylorville, IL.

Thomas Jefferson said, "When a long train of abuse and usurpations reveal a settled design to subject them to absolute rule, it is not only the people's right but also their duty to throw off such government and provide new guards for their future security."

Indeed, the Washington politicians have subjected us laboring class people, small business operators and family farmers to a long train of abuse and misuse and it is our duty to make a revolution because it is the right thing to do, for the good of our country and for us who have built this great Nation with our very souls and being and our blood, sweat and toil.

We must have a revolution. A revolution that will bring a guaranteed annual wage for labor from justly-divided industrial profits. A revolution against those politicians who prefer the exploiters to the exploited, the profiteers to the laborers, the New World Order masters to the sovereign citizens of the United States of America. The wrong is great—the remedy must be equally great.

Let us put those politicians on notice today that we are not ignorant to their single purpose: protecting privileged finance and unrestricted monopoly. We demand that the big profits of the multinational corporations and Wall Street bankers be equitably shared with all this nation's citizens, through the process of fair taxation.

We must have a revolution where the kings and queens of finance and the legal jokers of politics are discarded. A revolution against wealthy manufacturers who force the laboring class people into the bondage of economic slavery; where we are forced to compete against each other in an industrial warfare of slave against slave; where our children and grandchildren are sentenced to live lives of economic servitude in order to satisfy the New World Order money-changers' lust for power and global domination. We are victims of class legislation, of legislation designed to protect the interests of the rich, legislation which sneers at the poor and at human rights and social justice.

We revolutionists do not come as aggressors. Our revolution is about the defense of our homes, our families, and posterity.

Friends—Do not fear that a tyrant will rise from among the people, but do fear the tyrannical encroachments of the New World Order's organized wealth. Bankers are not producers of wealth. Bankers are human leeches who live off the artistry, the labor and the scientific development of others. They are in business with their prerogative of manufacturing money through an act of a corrupt, legally bought and paid for Congress, and through the grace of a printing press and fountain pen. The banker's business is to get that which they did not create. We are in the grip of a small group of human parasites who do not produce wealth but who live lavishly upon the labor of others. Their control of money enables them in days of prosperity to grow fat upon interest, and in days of depression to grow even fatter upon the legal confiscation of the homes, businesses and farms of less fortunate citizens.

Indeed, there must be a revolution which teaches those who own and control wealth that labor owes no rights to capital, unless capital performs its duty toward labor. A revolution which creates an economic system where workers are not forced into total poverty because there is no work at a profit for their employer. A revolution that will justly distribute the profits which have been gained through the use of mechanical and electronic devices.

Yes, one day, there must be a revolution which understands that it is impossible for us to presume that there is such a thing as a just wage or purchasing power in this Nation when most profits are siphoned into the hands of a few. There must be a revolution that will enable the laborer to maintain and educate his family according to the standards of American decency. A revolution that pays homage to the fact that labor is something human, something sacred; that labor requires the service of one's very soul and being to give life and activities to one's skill and toil.

America has the God-given resources to create enough real wealth to end poverty, hunger and homelessness in this great Nation and create undreamed of prosperity for all. But this prosperity cannot be forthcoming until we destroy the immoral mania of borrowing the Wall Street bankers' money with interest.

We citizens can prate about our physical liberty and talk about our political liberty, but it is all inconsequential unless there is, as set forth in the Declaration of Independence, the right to life, to liberty and to the pursuit of happiness which is denied a multitude of our citizens by the absence of our sovereign right of circulating the goods of our fields and our factories because money is controlled by a few. The multinational industrialists, the Wall Street bankers and the global financiers, the apostles of the New World Order Gods of the Global Economy, they are the true subversive movement in America today. Yet we who challenge their kingly rights are called rebels and inciters of revolution.

Let us regain the patriotic American dream instead of leaguing with those who wish to make proletarians of us all. If social justice is called radicalism; if patriotism is referred to as bigoted isolation, I gladly accept those charges with the same philosophic attitude in which our patriotic forebears were called rebels and revolutionists.

The humblest citizen in all the land, when clad in the armor of a righteous cause, is stronger than all the hosts of error; indeed, where is the profit if one gains the world and loses one's soul? I would rather be called a rebel and a crackpot for social justice than be a high-paid hired "yes man" for the Wall Street bankers. We citizens must strike the first and telling blow for national economic freedom and financial independence by driving the apostles of the New World Order out of the temple of their golden calf—the Federal Reserve system.

I invite you to join with me in dedicating a portion of our lives to the task of bringing about political revolution. In the words of a great lady, Mother Jones: Let us pray for the dead but fight like hell for the living.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally published in New Democracy Newsletter, January-February 2001.

[new democracy]

this is what the worker want!!!! a revolution that will overthrow capitalism!!!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:15 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Freedom to accumulate wealth. Own property. And to do as I damn well please with my hard earned money.



What about those who don't work hard but make more money....even more than you?

[Supermodel]

Quote: from new democracy on 9:09 am on Aug. 25, 2002
question to the cappis: what do you like so much about capitalism!? it is the injustice? it is the inequality? the wars? the hunger? the poverty? the oppression of minorities? the unemployment? the lack of democracy? the oppression of women? answer me: WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU LIKE ABOUT CAPITALISM!?


Sorry, but all of those unfortunate societal flaws existed under every socialist regime as well. The differences are more philosophical and moralistic.

[Capitalist Imperial]

ND, that does not represent the opinion of every american worker.

The vast majority of amrerican workers are relatively happy. They have a standard of living in the upper 10th percentile of the world.

Lardlad,, who in the hell are you to make a value judgement as to what kind of work is harder than another?

Have you ever had to start your own business?

Have you ever been responsible for $1 billion in assets?

How do you know what is and id not "hard work"?

What I love about capitalism:

Freedom

Opportunity

Just reward

[new democracy]

by new democracy most of the workers want a more equal and democratic society. the only way to achieve one is by revolution.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:53 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
ND, that does not represent the opinion of every american worker.

The vast majority of amrerican workers are relatively happy. They have a standard of living in the upper 10th percentile of the world.

Lardlad,, who in the hell are you to make a value judgement as to what kind of work is harder than another?

Have you ever had to start your own business?

Have you ever been responsible for $1 billion in assets?

How do you know what is and id not "hard work"?

What I love about capitalism:

Freedom

Opportunity

Just reward


then who is to say that a laborer doesn't work just as hard as a ceo

So if we can't measure how hard a person works

then how do we not know that all people work equally hard

and are deserving of equal pay?

Thanks for allowing me to pull that out.

Who the hell said I was just talking about laborers anyway?

You make it sound like I want laborers to be paid more than ceo's

however you fail to realize I want all people to be paid equally

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:53 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
ND, that does not represent the opinion of every american worker.

The vast majority of amrerican workers are relatively happy. They have a standard of living in the upper 10th percentile of the world.

Lardlad,, who in the hell are you to make a value judgement as to what kind of work is harder than another?

Have you ever had to start your own business?

Have you ever been responsible for $1 billion in assets?

How do you know what is and id not "hard work"?

What I love about capitalism:

Freedom

Opportunity

Just reward


I keep reading your statement and you just don't know how well that plays into socialist beliefs.

I mean who is anyone to judge what work is harder than another?

and according to capitalists you are paid for what you earn.

So if we all work as hard as someone else then shouldn't we all earn the same amount?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from new democracy on 5:58 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
by new democracy most of the workers want a more equal and democratic society. the only way to achieve one is by revolution.

Look, ND, I have a reality check for you.

This board does not represent the sentiments of the vast majority of americans. Americans love this country. Nobody wants a revolution here.

To have a revolution, you need a substantial proportion of the population, usually a majority faction, that desires fundamental change.

You do not have that in the USA.

This board represents an insignificant population of miguided individuals, mostly rich kids looking for an identity.

Americans don't want a revolution. Americans are just fine with the way things are. We live good, we live free, and are happy with it.

Sorry to disappoint you, my friend.

[Xvall]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:15 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Freedom to accumulate wealth. Own property. And to do as I damn well please with my hard earned money.


LOL. He enjoys accumulating small pieces of green paper!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 6:20 pm on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:15 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Freedom to accumulate wealth. Own property. And to do as I damn well please with my hard earned money.





LOL. He enjoys accumulating small pieces of green paper!


dont mock

I mean we all have vices....I for instance can't read enough....I'd kill for more books.....



that and incense and vapor rub...you got any incense and vapor rub...I really need some come on you know I'm good for it

[new democracy]

ci, are you a worker? because if you not, you can say that workers dont want change.

[Xvall]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 6:25 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
[quote]

that and incense and vapor rub...you got any incense and vapor rub...I really need some come on you know I'm good for it


No; I'm laughing because unlike thing things you listed, and the things that you want; money is completely useless. He prides himself on obtaining it, but in reality, it is nothing more than used, colorful paper. It can't actually feed you, or protect you. The only reason it does, is because the government says it is valuable, which it is not; because it is paper.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from new democracy on 6:26 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
ci, are you a worker? because if you not, you can say that workers dont want change.


it doesn't matter if i'm a worker or not. I am an american, and i know plenty of regular american workers, and they live good, and do not want change of the magnitude you suggest

[Lardlad95]

good point

and it is just paper, its somewhat of an abstract concept.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:38 pm on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from new democracy on 6:26 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
ci, are you a worker? because if you not, you can say that workers dont want change.


it doesn't matter if i'm a worker or not. I am an american, and i know plenty of regular american workers, and they live good, and do not want change of the magnitude you suggest


could you please answer my statement

[new democracy]

he fact that most of the workers dont belive in communism dont mean they dont want a change.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from new democracy on 7:30 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
he fact that most of the workers dont belive in communism dont mean they dont want a change.

I agree lots of people are ill informed about leftist ideology

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 11:20 pm on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:15 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Freedom to accumulate wealth. Own property. And to do as I damn well please with my hard earned money.


LOL. He enjoys accumulating small pieces of green paper!


The accumulation of wealth does not necessarily mean the accumulation of large sums of money.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:54 pm on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 11:20 pm on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:15 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Freedom to accumulate wealth. Own property. And to do as I damn well please with my hard earned money.


LOL. He enjoys accumulating small pieces of green paper!


The accumulation of wealth does not necessarily mean the accumulation of large sums of money.


so then you meant emotional or spiritual wealth?

Because the wealth you were speaking of seemed to speak about money.

So what exactley did you mean?

[Anonymous]

Gold, silver, precious stones, artifacts, land, stuff like that.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:53 am on Aug. 26, 2002
Gold, silver, precious stones, artifacts, land, stuff like that.


so basicaly you like, green paper, rocks, metal, and dirt?

[Anonymous]

If you anhielated money, then religion, the only problems you would get were racism and pure human evil, that evil is today directd only to money, so people dont really kill because they are evil, they kill for money, and when someone kills just for pleasure he is a serial killer!
So does Money offer proctetion? or it only disguises Human Thirst for blood?

[Anonymous]

Valuable rocks, metal, and dirt.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 1:11 am on Aug. 26, 2002
Valuable rocks, metal, and dirt.

hahaha

no seriosuly though its just rocks, its not gonna help you when you are dead.

So wanting excess amounts doensn't make sense

[Anonymous]

they are only valueble becasue people say they are valueble!

[Anonymous]

You could sell or trade those materials, make money off them, and improve your standard of living.

[Exploited Class]

I know what I love about the capitalist system. The continual stress and no guarantees. Man that has to be the best part, oh and along with the constant struggle. I love working 40 hours a week to make somebody else rich. I love worrying about unemployment, I love that the high unemployment rate makes me do the work of 3 people in order to keep my job. I truly dig on that whole increased worker productivity. Also always working to put money away for my retirment, so I can take care of myself when I am worthless to this society and have nothing left to contribute. I like the fact that there is this belief that if I work super hard, go into debt for an over priced college, get good grades, I too can buy into a vapid exsitence of just buying things, but better things. Then I can afford decent health care in case my employer doesn't give my any. I then can buy an overpriced home and pay for it for like 30 years, and since I will buy it the price will stay over priced and others who did not invest all that energy and debt into college and all this other greatness can not afford a home.

I see only pluses in this system.

[Anonymous]

...make money...

make money- the cappies favorite words!

[Anonymous]

Making money is fun! :biggrin:

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 1:27 am on Aug. 26, 2002
You could sell or trade those materials, make money off them, and improve your standard of living.



of course they wont improve your standard of living when you are dead....because you standard of living will be at zero...cuz your not living

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 6:57 am on Aug. 26, 2002

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 1:27 am on Aug. 26, 2002
You could sell or trade those materials, make money off them, and improve your standard of living.



of course they wont improve your standard of living when you are dead....because you standard of living will be at zero...cuz your not living

I know.

[Guest]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 6:47 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
[quote]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:38 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
[quote]
could you please answer my statement


OK< Lardlad, my point is that no one person can decide what is and what is not hard. Physical labor, while challenging in its own right, does not take much thought. Crafts and mental work take much more practice and special ability. Almost any able-bodied person I know can work on an assembly line. Not everyone can successfully analyze credit, or manage 1 billion in assests, or perform accounting. The market itself decides what someone is worth, based upon how many people are doing it. How many people are doing it is for the most part based on its difficulty or challenge in doing it right.

Therefore, if less people are available to perform a certain task, then it is worth more to the market to compensate an individual for the task accordingly.

Anyone can drive a nail after some remedial instruction. Can anyone be a financial planner without extensive training and experience? No.

[Lardlad95]

With training anyone can do anything.

So really the fact that you can do something doesn't mean someone else can't.because someone needs more training does not mean they work harder.

The point is not about who is needed, its about who works the hardest

[Guest]

Quote: from exploitedclass on 1:33 am on Aug. 26, 2002
I know what I love about the capitalist system. The continual stress and no guarantees. Man that has to be the best part, oh and along with the constant struggle. I love working 40 hours a week to make somebody else rich. I love worrying about unemployment, I love that the high unemployment rate makes me do the work of 3 people in order to keep my job. I truly dig on that whole increased worker productivity. Also always working to put money away for my retirment, so I can take care of myself when I am worthless to this society and have nothing left to contribute. I like the fact that there is this belief that if I work super hard, go into debt for an over priced college, get good grades, I too can buy into a vapid exsitence of just buying things, but better things. Then I can afford decent health care in case my employer doesn't give my any. I then can buy an overpriced home and pay for it for like 30 years, and since I will buy it the price will stay over priced and others who did not invest all that energy and debt into college and all this other greatness can not afford a home.

I see only pluses in this system.


"I know what I love about the capitalist system. The continual stress and no guarantees."

Oh, you want a guarantee in life? I have a bridge to sell you.

"Man that has to be the best part, oh and along with the constant struggle. I love working 40 hours a week to make somebody else rich."

Well, then start your own business. oh, I forgot, its probably everyone elses fault you can't do that, right?

"I love worrying about unemployment, I love that the high unemployment rate makes me do the work of 3 people in order to keep my job."

So, from what I've read so far, the law states that this is the only job you are allowed to have, and you are not empowered to change anything. You must, then, not live in the United States

" I truly dig on that whole increased worker productivity. Also always working to put money away for my retirment, so I can take care of myself when I am worthless to this society and have nothing left to contribute."

Yeah, actually saving money, what a sham.

"I like the fact that there is this belief that if I work super hard, go into debt for an over priced college, get good grades, I too can buy into a vapid exsitence of just buying things, but better things."

Is that what makes you happy? If not, don't follow the mold. Oh, I forgot, none of this is yur responsibility.

"Then I can afford decent health care in case my employer doesn't give my any. I then can buy an overpriced home and pay for it for like 30 years, and since I will buy it the price will stay over priced and others who did not invest all that energy and debt into college and all this other greatness can not afford a home."

I'm glad to know that you are the be all-end all of what is an over-priced home and who can afford them.
Oh, you forgot to mention the small fact that the value increase in your home goes into your pocket.

"I see only pluses in this system."

Feel free to leave, I'll hold the door open for you.

However, I'll bet dollatrs to donts that your complaints will continue, while your actions will remain stagnant. Typical of a sap who has a sorry lot in life, but would rather complain about it than take charge and change his own destiny.

[Lardlad95]

your destiny isn't always in you hands. Alot of time it is.

But in some instances its very unlikely that your gonna be able to change anything.

Not saying he has this problem I just wanted to say so

[Capitalist Imperial]

GODDAMNED IT!

Those last 2 guest posts were me


Lardlad, the labor market dictates what has value, period. It is bbased on the value of the task in question.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:21 am on Aug. 26, 2002
GODDAMNED IT!

Those last 2 guest posts were me


Lardlad, the labor market dictates what has value, period. It is bbased on the value of the task in question.

I knew it was you.

But the market makes no sense....if we can't prove that anyone works harder than anyone else, then how can one person's job be worth more than anothers?

That is why capitalism makes no sense

[vox]

Why do so many people leave the free, democratic, capitalist paradise of Mexico? That's a question I've had for a while. Stable government? Check. Capitalism? Check. Overwhelming poverty? Check. Hmmm.

Rather than relate ONE experience ONE person might have at ONE job, the issue is about the inequality that is mandated in a capitalist system. I've said it before and I'll say it now: Not everyone can be on top in a capitlaist economy. The capitalist knows this, of course. They pay people a lot of money, however, to persuade us to believe that everyone can make it big in the USA. That's simply not true. If everyone suddenly got a college degree, then we'd have maids with college degrees cleaning the houses of the elite.

But then, capitalists and their sympathizers have an odd idea of what a successful society looks like. In the USA, the great bastion of capitalism and the richest nation in the world, nearly one in five children lives in poverty (and that's using the official and terribly outdated method of determining poverty). To the bourgeoisie, this is considered a great success.

That kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it?

vox

[Lardlad95]

exactley the American Dream? Suburban house, dad with a good job, 2-3 kids, dog, cat, two cars. Thats some damn bullshit.

If we all live the American Dream who the fuck's gonna live in the city.

Who's gonna do the small work?

We can't be successful workin as a god damn janitor, not as sucessful as those damn people up in the offices.

Then you got people trying to tell us there is hope for everyone in this country....one word.

BULLSHIT.

WHen we can all achieve the AMerican dream while people are sitll doing a laboring job then call me...cuz guess what thats called socialism.

i'm out, peace

[Anonymous]

Not everyone can be successful and noone is equal. It's reality folks. Deal with it or shut the fuck up.

[American Kid]

The Kid concurs with his friend the Dark Capitalist:

Freedom

[Capitalist Imperial]

CI concurrs as well, life is tough

do your best

don't expect shit to be handed to you

only the strong survive

that has been the way of life since life existed

the way it should be

[Exploited Class]

CI concurrs as well, life is tough

Life is only tough and a stuggle because that is the way we have shaped society to be, what a lot of us have grown acustomed to. In essence Life is not tough, eating, breathing, human interaction, shelter,the fundamentals to life is not tough. Our societal structure and our desire to suceed, and the general concencus of what the definetion of sucess is set by society, that is what makes this particular life tough.

do your best

Do one's best is a hallow statement with no definable outcome.

don't expect shit to be handed to you

Who expect's shit to be handed to them? I know I don't want a free TV, or a free car or even a free meal. I do believe that a society is judge by the services it provides to itself for everyone. Free education, free higher education, free healthcare, free public transportation. They are only free because you don't pay immediatly to use, but they are no more free than the roads we use to drive on, because it is a need of society. As a society becomes more complex, so does the general needs of that society.


only the strong survive

That worked well back about 3000 years ago when everybody was fighting animals and other humans off for food, when the earth was rampant with bacteria and viruses that we had yet to become immune to.

that has been the way of life since life existed

That would be the way of life for animals, if you want to include you intelligence to the level of an animal then perhaps you do indeed need to drop out of this society and join the society of a pack animal. The only people pleased with the idea of the strong survive are the strong.

the way it should be

Well then, we need to kill off anybody above the age of 65 when they no longer can provide us with work. The mentally retarted should be killed since they are not strong enough to support themselves, and if you get sick, well then you should not get medical help, if you are not strong enough to get well or get out of a coma then you should die and not burden us as a society any longer. If you truly believe that the strongest survive then you have to believe in the removal of the weakest.

[vox]

Ah, the three stooges that represent the intellectual capacity of the right-wing (DC, AK and CI) have spoken. What's their message? In a nutshell, it's that this is the best we can ever possibly hope to do and, in fact, it's morally correct that people suffer.

DC writes that we should "deal with it or shut the fuck up," and his pals give a chorus of approval. Of course, no other options are presented, for the narrow and shallow minds of the right-wing can't grasp anything other possibilities.

CI adds that "only the strong survive," regurgitating a favorite cliche of discredited Social Darwinism in which the victim is blamed, which makes the oppressor feel quite good for he no longer has to take responsibility for his role. However, it's funny that no one ever defines what "strong" means, nor even what "survive" means in this context. Is economic success an indication, possibly the only indication, of strength? If so, then Bill Clinton is "stronger" than, I would suggest, anyone on this board. And liberal businessman George Soros must be, too, as well as Jane Fonda and Barbara Striesand.

CI goes on to make two logical fallacies: argumentum ad antiquitatem and the appeal to nature, saying that it's always been like this and that it's natural. I recommend reading Hume on the "is-ought gap," which says that simply because something is doesn't mean that it ought to be.

vox

[Anonymous]

CI concurrs as well, life is tough

do your best

don't expect shit to be handed to you

only the strong survive

that has been the way of life since life existed

the way it should be


HE HE this is the prove that cappies are primitive, they still use the primitive law of "survival of the strongest!"
lol

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from vox on 2:40 am on Aug. 26, 2002
Why do so many people leave the free, democratic, capitalist paradise of Mexico? That's a question I've had for a while. Stable government? Check. Capitalism? Check. Overwhelming poverty? Check. Hmmm.


Rather than relate ONE experience ONE person might have at ONE job, the issue is about the inequality that is mandated in a capitalist system. I've said it before and I'll say it now: Not everyone can be on top in a capitlaist economy. The capitalist knows this, of course. They pay people a lot of money, however, to persuade us to believe that everyone can make it big in the USA. That's simply not true. If everyone suddenly got a college degree, then we'd have maids with college degrees cleaning the houses of the elite.

But then, capitalists and their sympathizers have an odd idea of what a successful society looks like. In the USA, the great bastion of capitalism and the richest nation in the world, nearly one in five children lives in poverty (and that's using the official and terribly outdated method of determining poverty). To the bourgeoisie, this is considered a great success.

That kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it?

vox


The same exact thing could be said about Cuba. The difference is, people leave mexico for purely economic reasons. People leave cuba for economic and ideological reasons.

Again, of course not everyone can be on top, howerver, what leftists suggest is that everyone settles for mediocrity, and even worse, we take away the incentive for innovation and progress, hindering humanity as a whole.


BTW. vox's claim that 1/5 of US citizens live in poverty in incorrect, it is closer to 1/10.

www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty.html

of course,the US does have socialized welfare to help this situation

Lets see, individual responsibility, risk, effort/reward, or accepted mediocrity for the masses?

I choose the former

[Capitalist Imperial]

By the way, US poverty levels are trending down:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/poverty...00/pov00hi.html (http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/poverty00/pov00hi.html)

[vox]

CI fails to note that I talked specifically about children in poverty, but we should be used to right-wingers changing what has been written to suit their own agenda.

It's true that the poverty rate fell overall during the economic expansion, and this should surprise no one. However, poverty is now trending upward, which should also surprise no one. When the economy slows down, those who are barely getting by get hurt the most. While 2000 was a marginal year, I don't think that even the most diehard right-wing ideologue would say that the economy in 2001-2002 was good.

Even at its lowest rate of 16.2%, that's still over sixteen children out of every hundred that live in poverty. Acceptable? The bourgeoisie says yes. I say no.

BTW, does it strike anyone else as odd that CI uses a non-capitalist country to justify the failures of a capitalist country?

vox

[Capitalist Imperial]

I'm not using a non-capitalist country to justify mexico's position, which is actually favorable among developing nations.

My point was that Vox seemed to be drawing a correlation between Mexico's capitalist ideology and its economic status with an all-or-nothing deduction, a simple correlation that is hardly comprehensive or analytical, and I can do the exact same thing in my arguement against communism.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 5:34 am on Aug. 26, 2002
Not everyone can be successful and noone is equal. It's reality folks. Deal with it or shut the fuck up.



No sir.....you shut the fuck up.

The only reason we can't all be sucessful is because cappies liek you don't want it that way.

You don't want equality. You hate it, you despise it. You wanna pick one group of people and mash them, into the ground and spit on them. You wanna make sure they are never allowed to get up and try.

CiI I never said people should get hand outs, you know this, you know I despise welfare. You knkwo I believe everyone should work.

What baffels the hell out of me is why you hate equality?

Is there a particular group of people you dislike or something?

Is it Catholics?

muslims?

Blacks?

Jews?

Buddhists?

Old people?

People with brown eyes?

Blue eyes?

Black hair?

Brown Hair?

Dark Skin?

Light Skin?

Poor?

Rich?

Men?

Women?




Do you feel any of these people don't deserve to be considered equal with you?

Since you obviously hate equality and feel you are better than someone why don't you just enslave them? Or toture them...or better yet opress tehm

Because they aren't the same as you, they aren't equal to you...they are sub-human in comparison to you?

Cuz obviously they don't deserve equality right?

One of those types of people isn't equal to you, so if they do the same job as you, you should be paid more right?

If they aren't equal they should get less than you even if they do the same as you or more right?

[Anonymous]

"Equal" in the eyes of the law? Yes. "Equal" in the egalitarian multiculturalist sense? No.

I never said I was superior to anyone. And I never said that people should be enslaved.

Your putting words in my mouth.


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 3:14 am on Aug. 27, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 10:14 pm on Aug. 26, 2002
"Equal" in the eyes of the law? Yes. "Equal" in the egalitarian multiculturalist sense? No.

I never said I was superior to anyone. And I never said that people should be enslaved.

Your putting words in my mouth.


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 3:14 am on Aug. 27, 2002)


As human beings we are all equal that is my sole point.

Not to mention that since work can't bemeasured equal pay is also in order

[Guest]

You know new democracy, if your replies weren't so generically socialist you'd win an arguement better, don't just say 'workers like communism! capitalism sucks! Its evil!' Explain WHY.