I'm so annoyed with the religous right - wing bastards

[Lardlad95]

You ever woke up angry only to meet someone who just annoys you even more?

Well there is this girl in my class named stephenie, being the South we all know one thing she is overyl religous.

Now we all know that I believe in God, but I also don't rule out any possibilities.

Every day in my history class she pulls out God, Mr. Bihler says something about early Hominids, here comes Stephanie carrying God, we talk about what we are gonna disscuss in class, here comes Jesus.

I love the Lord, but I really don't think God is vain enough to here his name being said at Antioch High every four minutes...its fuckin annoying.

I mean its not so much the God but any time teh teacher talks about Neanderthals or Cro Magnons shes like "lies, lies, lies"

I believe in God, but I also have an open mind. I'm not about to rule out anything.

But these fuckin religous bastards get on my nerves.

Every damn second God is brought up, she wants religion go to a damn private school.

All these Bible Belt people are closed minded and it pisses me the fuck off.

do you have anyone that pisses you off exceedingly...not on Che-lives though

[pastradamus]

Its good to see a leftist with faith here.Im just like u man.

People like that are just idiots,they should be ignored.
its fine believing in a religion just as long as ur not a fanatic,fanatics of anything from religion to leftism or capitalism are evil fuckers.

[Mazdak]

No. It isnt. religion should be banned completely. It is a despicable practice that proves how primitive humans really are.

[Nateddi]

mazdak, you are an idiot

banning religion was one of the things i disgree on with the bolsheviks the most. it is completely pointless. an atheist state is just as theocratic as an islamic fundementalist state.

[Marxist1848]

Religion isnt natural. These religious books were written by men along time ago to teach a lesson. All throughout history people have been dyeing over a METAPHORE. That's all it is - is a myth. Organized religion was a GOVERNMENT CREATED object that was used to control the masses (created by theifs and beieved by fool) with greater punishment than the gov. could ever administer - ENERNITY IN HELL. It is a government tool to control people. Now it is a useless tool believed by the gullable and ignorant. and Nateddi-how?. Athiesm in NOT a religion. It is a lack of beeif or faith (i should know..i am one). When people call it a religion it means that they obviously have no idea what they are talking about. BAnning religion would be the best thing the WORLD would ever do!

[Lardlad95]

Yeah religion isn't anything primitive, I mean people still eat meat like early humans did, people still drink alcohol like early humans. So why is religion wrong?

Its not exactley doing anything specificaly to harm you so let it be, its when people become fanatics that it is wrong

[Mazdak]

No. It creates unity. With religion, you have disunity. Just like the two/multi party syste and nationalism. and it is ignorance to the max, holding back civilization.

[Nateddi]

because atheism is a personal belief, just like christianity and islam is. you cannot force te belief onto people that do not wish to accept it. some believe in god and do not want to live in a society in which it is illegal to have their faith. it is the same as if america would become a christian theocracy, making atheism illegal, how would all you atheists feel than?

btw, i am agnostic leaning atheist. i agree with the marxist view on religion. i disagree that the state has a right to control our spiritual believes.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 2:19 am on Aug. 24, 2002
Religion isnt natural. These religious books were written by men along time ago to teach a lesson. All throughout history people have been dyeing over a METAPHORE. That's all it is - is a myth. Organized religion was a GOVERNMENT CREATED object that was used to control the masses (created by theifs and beieved by fool) with greater punishment than the gov. could ever administer - ENERNITY IN HELL. It is a government tool to control people. Now it is a useless tool believed by the gullable and ignorant. and Nateddi-how?. Athiesm in NOT a religion. It is a lack of beeif or faith (i should know..i am one). When people call it a religion it means that they obviously have no idea what they are talking about. BAnning religion would be the best thing the WORLD would ever do!


Listen if I want to believe that you are a little green lizard that is capable of typing I can believe that.

If I want to believe that water is really poison and that oil is a healthy nutritious drink I can believe that.

People can believe what they want, religion isn't wrong its how people use it that is wrong.

Now saying that it is only believed by the ignorant and guilable is bigotry.

You have no proof of these peoples intellegence level.

Besides what proof do you have that I'm not right?

[pastradamus]

Yup theres always a pair of wankers who wanna fuck up society. fucking authoritatian Stalinist fuckfaces
Its not religion that should be destroyed,its people looking for a cheap excuse for violence like ye.

ye guys have no idea how to run an equal society,all stalinists do it scare people by bullying & harrassing people & their human rights.

[Mazdak]

I think the state does have that right. And you can force people to be atheist. It is simple. Copnversion of adults would be more difficult, but anyone under 12 would immediatly be separated form their parents(if their parents were religious) and given an education(including anti religous education). Therefore, you will have no children to worry about and if their parents dont convert, oh well! They are the last religious generation.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:22 am on Aug. 24, 2002
No. It creates unity. With religion, you have disunity. Just like the two/multi party syste and nationalism. and it is ignorance to the max, holding back civilization.


how the hell is it holding you back in any way? you don't even believe in God.

Ignorance to the "max" is bigotry and prejudice, discriminating against someone for their beliefs and/or race/ethnicity.

You are being a bigot, that is ignorance.

There is a difference between me being annoyed with a girl for disrupting the class and you wanting to throw me in a jail because I don't believe that the Universe started spontaniously.

[canikickit]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:00 am on Aug. 24, 2002
religion should be banned completely.

what sort of an idiot are you?
what happened to freedom?
do you not think people should be allowed to live their lives the way they want?

[vox]

"I think the state does have that right."

Spoken like a true facist--the state's rights take precedence over the rights of people.

Are you sure you're not a Republican?

vox

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:26 am on Aug. 24, 2002
I think the state does have that right. And you can force people to be atheist. It is simple. Copnversion of adults would be more difficult, but anyone under 12 would immediatly be separated form their parents(if their parents were religious) and given an education(including anti religous education). Therefore, you will have no children to worry about and if their parents dont convert, oh well! They are the last religious generation.



What the hell? No seriously what is wrong with you?

Ok fine, if the US forced people to be Christian and seperated you from your loved ones to force religion on you would you like it?

Thats the problem stalinism seems good from the aggressors side.


IF it happened to you you wouldn't like it

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from vox on 2:32 am on Aug. 24, 2002
"I think the state does have that right."

Spoken like a true facist--the state's rights take precedence over the rights of people.

Are you sure you're not a Republican?

vox


I'm pretty sure he is...except he wants to be a dictator


question if you weren't the dictator would Stalinism seem so good?

[vox]

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Mazdak seems to be embracing the kind of methodological individualism that Marx rejected.

vox

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from vox on 2:50 am on Aug. 24, 2002
Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Mazdak seems to be embracing the kind of methodological individualism that Marx rejected.

vox

I'm guessing he's like fuck marx, stalin is my god :) hey he does believe in god

[pastradamus]

When u ration liberty,u ration support.
Its spasticated to destroy religion,i dont think anybody can call themselves libertarian without accepting religion.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from pastradamus on 2:57 am on Aug. 24, 2002
When u ration liberty,u ration support.
Its spasticated to destroy religion,i dont think anybody can call themselves libertarian without accepting religion.


exactley you don't have to believe but accept other's opinions

[Mazdak]

Did i say anything about liberty. I never said i will become dictator you idiots. I said if it WERE UP TO ME. Who said anythign about freedom. I have stated before i am not prodemocracy. i am AUTHORITARIAN. Religion belongs, not in the home but in the past. I dont call myself liberatarian. I call myself leftist.

I dont accept RELIGIOUS opinions.

Euthanasia could be legal if it werent for stupid religion.

Did all of you suddenly have amnesia?

[canikickit]

Euthanasia is legal in the Netherlands and Belguim, however religion is not illegal. Nor is there any reason why it should be. How can you seemingly be pro-choice (about euthanasia) and.....ah, fuck it....what's the point? I'm going to sell out....and its all LardLad's fault!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:47 am on Aug. 24, 2002
Did i say anything about liberty. I never said i will become dictator you idiots. I said if it WERE UP TO ME. Who said anythign about freedom. I have stated before i am not prodemocracy. i am AUTHORITARIAN. Religion belongs, not in the home but in the past. I dont call myself liberatarian. I call myself leftist.

I dont accept RELIGIOUS opinions.

Euthanasia could be legal if it werent for stupid religion.

Did all of you suddenly have amnesia?


but say the US did become stalinists but you weren't in teh governemt.

If they made decisions that you didn't like what would you do?

It only looks good from the governments point of veiw.


And why do you want to make Euthenasia legal?

[pastradamus]

I never said u were trying to be libertarian mazdak,im saying it to our fellow comrades.But authorian is far worse.

Ur Putting urself b4 other peoples views,a destruction of liberty is a destruction of people freedom.
a question...
If you dont like freedom,then why are u on the internet? why are u talking against the US govt?
why are u talking against religion?

All you are for is greed.
U are greedier than a 1,000 cappis

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from canikickit on 3:52 am on Aug. 24, 2002
Euthanasia is legal in the Netherlands and Belguim, however religion is not illegal. Nor is there any reason why it should be. How can you seemingly be pro-choice (about euthanasia) and.....ah, fuck it....what's the point? I'm going to sell out....and its all LardLad's fault!


we all make mistakes I tried to fix it but I guess that wont work...I'm sorry everyone.

Even Che made mistakes

[canikickit]

LardLad, I'm only messing.
but I'm going to sell out to the highest bidder still.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from canikickit on 3:59 am on Aug. 24, 2002
LardLad, I'm only messing.
but I'm going to sell out to the highest bidder still.

oh but I'm still sorry

[Marxist1848]

Holy crap.
Everybody just shut the hell up. thiis is getting rediculous.
Religion is bullshit. It is pointless and a waste of time. Now shut up.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 4:04 am on Aug. 24, 2002
Holy crap.
Everybody just shut the hell up. thiis is getting rediculous.
Religion is bullshit. It is pointless and a waste of time. Now shut up.

do you ever back up your statements or do you just expect people to agree with you for no damn reason.

[canikickit]

Religion can bring a positive spin into somebody's life. Even if it is for false reasons it still can help make somebody happy. What about the missions, they do good work?

[American Kid]

Mazdak, being in favor of "seperating" children from their parents because their parents believe in God is maybe the most awful thing I've ever heard here. It reminds me of that scene in "Schindler's List" when Liam Neeson has to step in-between the death-camp guard who's trying to take away the little jewish kids from their parents. Have you seen that movie? If not, maybe you should; because, YOU'RE that guy trying to drag the kids off- and that makes you a villain, brah.

Really, it's disgusting. How can you function in your daily life in any kind of decent way with these buried, deep-seeded feelings of disdain and resentment for your fellow man? I mean, I'm not an angel, but I don't condone "forcing" anybody to believe anything, as you say is possible, and should be done. Hell, I'll tell vox I hate his guts, but I don't want the gestapo knocking down his door, nor would I order them to if I was in power. I might put him under a little "unnecessary" surveillance and have the light company fuck with his meter every now and then, but I wouldn't do what you're suggesting. And you're wrong, you can't make anyone believe anything they don't want to. It doesn't matter how young they are. Eventually they'd find God, in some way. People always manage.

And Lad, I expect more from you!!!! Making the assumption that because she's from the south, "of course" she's a Jesus-freak. Come now, my fine Lad, let's not generalize peeps.

What about our friend La Rainbeaux? She's from the south, and she isn't too religioso as far the Kid can tell. :)

Anyway,

Peace, I'm the fuck out of here
-AK

[canikickit]

Mazdak has gone insane.

[Lardlad95]

I know about Shayla we live in the same state.

I know it was a generalization but with this and my previece expereince in the south this is a very conservative christian area

[American Kid]

Absolved.

-Rev. Kid

[deadpool 52]

When will the right learn that religion is to the mind as the atlantic ocean is to the globe?

(Edited by deadpool 52 at 9:54 am on Aug. 24, 2002)

[Raztro]

I agree with Nateddi.

[Sasafrás]

Correct, I'm from Tennessee and I'm not very religious, but I understand where Lardlad is coming from. I've been here for almost 13 years and one thing that I've noticed is that most people down here, whether black or white, are religious. I respect that. I've seen religion and it's capabilities. I've seen the good things people do because of religion (though, the Southern Hospitality would be enough to encourage them to do them anyway). But, I do not want it thrown in my face. Because of my status and location, it is typically assumed that I'm a religious person by my Southern counterparts. I try to understand and I try not to say anything but just nod my head, listen, and then proceed to make an excuse as to why I need to walk away. It's not often you find a freethinker down South, but we do exist. I do believe that it is not ANYONE'S right to tell people that they cannot practice religion. Simply. I may not like religion or religious people, and I may prefer that they stay the 'hell' away from me, but I would feel very hurt if the government suddenly said, "You cannot practice religion! The state religion is atheism!" I think it is our, for lack of a better word, "God-given" (You know what I mean, and PS: I'm agnostic) right to be able to practice the religion we want or believe what we choose. For that reason, I also believe that religious people should keep their damn tracts, books, newsletters, and verses off of my porch and out of my face. I respect the religious, and I expect them to respect me too.

(Edited by La Rainbeaux at 10:51 am on Aug. 24, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from La Rainbeaux on 4:16 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
Correct, I'm from Tennessee and I'm not very religious, but I understand where Lardlad is coming from. I've been here for almost 13 years and one thing that I've noticed is that most people down here, whether black or white, are religious. I respect that. I've seen religion and it's capabilities. I've seen the good things people do because of religion (though, the Southern Hospitality would be enough to encourage them to do them anyway). But, I do not want it thrown in my face. Because of my status and location, it is typically assumed that I'm a religious person by my Southern counterparts. I try to understand and I try not to say anything but just nod my head, listen, and then proceed to make an excuse as to why I need to walk away. It's not often you find a freethinker down South, but we do exist. I do believe that it is not ANYONE'S right to tell people that they cannot practice religion. Simply. I may not like religion or religious people, and I may prefer that they stay the 'hell' away from me, but I would feel very hurt if the government suddenly said, "You cannot practice religion! The state religion is atheism!" I think it is our, for lack of a better word, "God-given" (You know what I mean, and PS: I'm agnostic) right to be able to practice the religion we want or believe what we choose. For that reason, I also believe that religious people should keep their damn tracts, books, newsletters, and verses off of my porch and out of my face. I respect the religious, and I expect them to respect me too.

(Edited by La Rainbeaux at 10:51 am on Aug. 24, 2002)



intellegent and open minded, thats you my girl....not in that sense..but you know what I mean.

Basicaly I think religion belongs outside of school and people need to realize this.

[pastradamus]

Those fucking guys that come to my fucking door!
The jehovahs arent that bad,cuz they know when ur not intrested.

But those mormons! grrrrrrrr!

mormon:"hi youngster,my name is peter & im from the church of jesus christ"

"the church of jesus christ",talk about dolling sumthing up!

Im gonna go up to peters door one day & say
"hi,im pastradamus.Im from the roman caothlic & aspostilic church"

now thats dolling sumthing up!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from pastradamus on 7:17 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
Those fucking guys that come to my fucking door!
The jehovahs arent that bad,cuz they know when ur not intrested.

But those mormons! grrrrrrrr!

mormon:"hi youngster,my name is peter & im from the church of jesus christ"

"the church of jesus christ",talk about dolling sumthing up!

Im gonna go up to peters door one day & say
"hi,im pastradamus.Im from the roman caothlic & aspostilic church"

now thats dolling sumthing up!


yeah the wittnesses can be cool I knew some Jehova's wittneses

But some people just wont take no for an answer.

Back when I was a real serious catholic my friend kept trying to put it down and I'm like I don't like your fuckin church I don't wanna join your version of Christianity but he just wouldn't shut up.


but now that I think all organized religion has corrupted God's word i don't have to deal with the ullshit

[canikickit]

if you tell them you give blood then they'll go away. cos' its against their beliefs.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from canikickit on 7:58 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
if you tell them you give blood then they'll go away. cos' its against their beliefs.

um....yeah

[Moskitto]

We got Mormons round the other week.

My dad made them go away pretty quick, the guy goes "Hey we're Mormons, what are you?"
and my dad goes "We're Baptists and Quakers" (we're also Anglican as well)
Mormon - "Oh, that's cool, Do you know anyone else who would be interested in hearing our message?"
Dad - "Well, we're all more or less the same round here"
The Mormon grinned.

But Jehovas Witnesses gave up on us. They ignore us, all they do is use us to train new Jehovas Witnesses because my dad is soooo good at argueing Theology. He made them run out of ideas by basically saying it doesn't matter.

My mum is a teacher and she used to teach a Jehovas Witness, aparantly everytime she used to get leaflets in exercise books and also she wasn't allowed to watch TV because it was against her religion or do any English work on Macbeth (which didn't help since that was the coursework assignment. Very strange.

[Lardlad95]

yeah very weird

good idea of them sending new members to your father to break them in....

actually thats very smart, makes them have to try harder

[Marxist1848]

I cant believe you people are still discussing this.
RELGION IS CRAP.
Now staop arguing the FACT. This is pathetic.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 1:01 am on Aug. 25, 2002
I cant believe you people are still discussing this.
RELGION IS CRAP.
Now staop arguing the FACT. This is pathetic.

opinions must be argued, other wise why would we believe anything?

If we didn't argue opinions i wouldn't even know what socialsim is

[Mazdak]

Religion makes you "feel good." So do drugs. And for some sickos, i am sure murder makes themfeel good. I never said i wanted to be part of any government, but i would support a leader who made these changes.

Religion has to go. It does hold back humanity. It is that simple. Like nationalism it divides us. I dont care what you call me, a bigot, a madman, i stick to what i say 100%.

And there is a difference between enlightening children and separating them just to murder them. I want to enlighten them. Free them from abusive parents. Although at first, this change might seem oppressive and i wouldnt lie, it would be. However it would be for the benefit of humanity.

Religion is not for the benefit of the people, it, as marx himself believed, is lies taught by cheats and believed by fools.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:08 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Religion makes you "feel good." So do drugs. And for some sickos, i am sure murder makes themfeel good. I never said i wanted to be part of any government, but i would support a leader who made these changes.

Religion has to go. It does hold back humanity. It is that simple. Like nationalism it divides us. I dont care what you call me, a bigot, a madman, i stick to what i say 100%.

And there is a difference between enlightening children and separating them just to murder them. I want to enlighten them. Free them from abusive parents. Although at first, this change might seem oppressive and i wouldnt lie, it would be. However it would be for the benefit of humanity.

Religion is not for the benefit of the people, it, as marx himself believed, is lies taught by cheats and believed by fools.





I'm pretty sure if you were lying in a ditch dying youm wouldn't object to a priest helping you would you?

Also religous parents aren't abusive, some amy be but some atheist parents might be also

[Mazdak]

Religious parents are abusive. They introduce religion to their children. That is abuse.

[boadicea88]

I didn't read the whole thread coz I didn't have time, but I've got some things to add. I also have faith, I'm a Hindu, and while I agree that religion isn't natural, I don't think it should be banned. I think that it is like a security blanket, so people think they're safe (which can be bad), it gives them something to believe in, and lets them think that when they die, they have somewhere to go. That, I believe, lets them (at least me) be more courageous, allowing them to ''stand up and fight like a man.'' Wouldn't life be kind of a waste of time and space if when you died, you were dead and didn't even go anywhere?? I believe in re-incarnation, which to me is much more logical.
But I will say that sometimes, if a child is taught, for example, Catholicism [spelling?], and then they find out that "it's all a lie!", that can traumatize them and cause them to take new looks at their lives, which is not a bad thing but it can be very difficult and painful. If their entire life has been built around a religion, and they decide that their whole life is a lie... this happened to a close friend of mine recently, causing her to commit suicide. So, that's my two cents' worth. Forgive me if a lot of that didn't make much sense, I'm sick as a dog right now, so I'm not thinking or writing very clearly.

[boadicea88]

P.S. Yeah, I wake up angry all the time, and each and every time I see the person who really annoys me. Very annoying, I'm a lonely coyote and I like it that way... I'd like it better if I were completely alone all the time... 'cept for some friends... oops, I mean access to a computer...

[Mazdak]

Ah. The first time we didnt agree.

Why have a security blanket if it means losing all common sense? Being atheist doesnt mean believing in nothing, it is believing everything. (i dont know whose quote i just messed up, but it makes sense)

People have to be told it is all a lie. The fact that your friend committed suicide is proof how religion/religious parents are abusive. by making a child a slave to your religion when his/her mind is weak, it is a crime.

[Mazdak]

Religion is what the ancients used to describe what they couldnt describe at the time. Now we have science, which replaces religion. However, the fact that some, as a matter of fact, most continue to go throught the path of delusion(aka faith) and ignorance over logic, technology, and intelligence sickens me. I hope that people in the future will laugh at all the fundamentalist bastards when they see how foolish they are... trading away their whole lives for some non existant deity just to die and find nothing waiting on the other side.

[boadicea88]

I noticed also that this was the first time we didn't agree on something, and it may be the only time.

You have a definate point and the quote does make sense. I need to do more research (big surprise there), because a lot of my opinions are influenced by my mom's. I agree with you on this particular point, just not on the point that religion should be banned, or that it is evil. I also agree that organised religion (the Church, etc) is one big fat lie. But to each his own...

I borrow stuff from Hinduism, Islam, and Jainism, and the religion I invented (whose name I keep changing coz I forget it), Azhnazg'avat'e.

[boadicea88]

Quote: from Mazdak on 6:32 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
I hope that people in the future will laugh at all the fundamentalist bastards when they see how foolish they are... trading away their whole lives for some non existant deity just to die and find nothing waiting on the other side.


LOL, but how do you know that the particular deity is non-existant? I don't think anyone will know until someone truly dies and comes back and tells all.

[Mazdak]

Jainism is a religion which i have no problem with. At the moment.

How do i know? Because the only reason people believe in an afterlife is to console them. People are still to primitive to understand death. when you die, you are non-existant. it is just like before you were born.

[boadicea88]

I see your point, but I don't agree. All arguments about religion are ultimately opinion arguments.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:20 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Religious parents are abusive. They introduce religion to their children. That is abuse.


as opposed to you kidnapping children and brainwashing them to agree with you?

ANd I'm betting if they still don't agree you will eitehr kill them or beat them...odd your option sounds alot worse.

Not to mention alot of atheists grew up in religous families so if people didn't want to believe they didnt have to

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:51 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Jainism is a religion which i have no problem with. At the moment.

How do i know? Because the only reason people believe in an afterlife is to console them. People are still to primitive to understand death. when you die, you are non-existant. it is just like before you were born.


so mAzdak how many times have you died?

I say this because you act as if you know.

WHy don't you kill your self come back to life and tell me who was right

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:32 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Religion is what the ancients used to describe what they couldnt describe at the time. Now we have science, which replaces religion. However, the fact that some, as a matter of fact, most continue to go throught the path of delusion(aka faith) and ignorance over logic, technology, and intelligence sickens me. I hope that people in the future will laugh at all the fundamentalist bastards when they see how foolish they are... trading away their whole lives for some non existant deity just to die and find nothing waiting on the other side.


first of all if there was nothing else on the other side why would we find that out, we would be dead.

Second who said Science and Religion always are opposed?

Alot of science does go hand in hand with religion


for example their is a religious explanation for early humans (cro magnon, astropythicus, neaderthals, etc.)

Not many people who believe in God know this but there is an explanation.

And i have explained it on other threads but no one listens

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Mazdak on 6:28 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
Being atheist doesnt mean believing in nothing, it is believing everything. (i dont know whose quote i just messed up, but it makes sense)



atheism, in the strict definition sense is "without belief." the prefix "a" meaning without, and "theism" meaning belief.

i am an atheist, but to FORCE my belief on somebody else is absolutley wrong! now, i am open to a theological discussion at almost anytime, but i dont think that you can do what you are speaking of mazdak. that fact of the matter is that, as lardlad says, you will never know for sure until you die. who knows, if their is a god, maybe he/she/it is fucking with all of us by making all of these religions and the evolution theories just to see what we all do. my point being you can not know for sure. and if you attempt to supress an idea as strong as religion is, then it will become an underground idea and will spread without the governments knowing.

Marxist1848:
i must agree with lardlad once again in asking if you ever come with something to back up your opinion? just a thought, but that would greatly strengthen your argument which is extraordinarily weak as it stands right now.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 10:03 pm on Aug. 24, 2002)

[mujer revolucionaria]

Quote: from Mazdak on 8:26 pm on Aug. 24, 2002
I think the state does have that right. And you can force people to be atheist. It is simple. Copnversion of adults would be more difficult, but anyone under 12 would immediatly be separated form their parents(if their parents were religious) and given an education(including anti religous education). Therefore, you will have no children to worry about and if their parents dont convert, oh well! They are the last religious generation.


You cant be serious??!!

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 9:19 am on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:32 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Religion is what the ancients used to describe what they couldnt describe at the time. Now we have science, which replaces religion. However, the fact that some, as a matter of fact, most continue to go throught the path of delusion(aka faith) and ignorance over logic, technology, and intelligence sickens me. I hope that people in the future will laugh at all the fundamentalist bastards when they see how foolish they are... trading away their whole lives for some non existant deity just to die and find nothing waiting on the other side.


first of all if there was nothing else on the other side why would we find that out, we would be dead.

Second who said Science and Religion always are opposed?

Alot of science does go hand in hand with religion


for example their is a religious explanation for early humans (cro magnon, astropythicus, neaderthals, etc.)

Not many people who believe in God know this but there is an explanation.

And i have explained it on other threads but no one listens



First off, so called "creation science" is not real science. "Creation scientists" are nothing but a bunch of religious fundamentalist trying to justify their incredibly flawed and destructive beliefs with pseudo-scientific nonesense. It's truly sad that there are those that cannot except reality because of their own heavily ingrained beliefs, or more simply because of their fear.

You can visit these websites for a comprehensive debunking of creationists myths and fallacies:

The Bone Pit (http://www.atheists.org/bone.pit/index.html)

Greene's Creationism Truth Filter (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/)

The talk Origins Archive (http://www.talkorigins.org/)

I've said it before and i'll say it again; Religion has to be one of mankinds worst inventions.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 11:34 am on Aug. 25, 2002)

[vodun]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:51 am on Aug. 25, 2002
when you die, you are non-existant. it is just like before you were born.
Been there?

[Moskitto]

Not all scientific theists believe in creation and try and justify it by bending science. Darwin for example did not believe in Creation yet was a Christian.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 6:31 am on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 9:19 am on Aug. 25, 2002

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:32 am on Aug. 25, 2002
Religion is what the ancients used to describe what they couldnt describe at the time. Now we have science, which replaces religion. However, the fact that some, as a matter of fact, most continue to go throught the path of delusion(aka faith) and ignorance over logic, technology, and intelligence sickens me. I hope that people in the future will laugh at all the fundamentalist bastards when they see how foolish they are... trading away their whole lives for some non existant deity just to die and find nothing waiting on the other side.


first of all if there was nothing else on the other side why would we find that out, we would be dead.

Second who said Science and Religion always are opposed?

Alot of science does go hand in hand with religion


for example their is a religious explanation for early humans (cro magnon, astropythicus, neaderthals, etc.)

Not many people who believe in God know this but there is an explanation.

And i have explained it on other threads but no one listens



First off, so called "creation science" is not real science. "Creation scientists" are nothing but a bunch of religious fundamentalist trying to justify their incredibly flawed and destructive beliefs with pseudo-scientific nonesense. It's truly sad that there are those that cannot except reality because of their own heavily ingrained beliefs, or more simply because of their fear.

You can visit these websites for a comprehensive debunking of creationists myths and fallacies:

The Bone Pit (http://www.atheists.org/bone.pit/index.html)

Greene's Creationism Truth Filter (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/)

The talk Origins Archive (http://www.talkorigins.org/)

I've said it before and i'll say it again; Religion has to be one of mankinds worst inventions.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 11:34 am on Aug. 25, 2002)


First of all dumbass I was saying there was an explanantion for early hominids. I never said anything about creation.

Second heavily ingrained beliefs? For the first ten years of my life I had never set foot in a church.

Second fear? What the hell do I have to be afraid of? If your right then who cares you can't gloat to me cuz I'll be dead and it wont matter.

But if I'm rigt I go to heaven.

For me its win win.

Not to mention again you know about as much as death as Mazdak and I

So like I told him, die, come back, then tell me who was right...

[Mazdak]

I am serious...

Religion IS opposed to religion.
Ok... so you cant disprove religion, but can you disprove the existance of fire breathing dragons? No. It is that simple. At least Fire breathing dragons dont cause the problems religion does.

Kidnapping them? No. I am simply, educating them, before religion becomes ingrained into their system.
Religion is a capitalist/facist tool to oppress the masses. The people are so busy praying that they have no time to think about why they are in the situation they are in. Without religion, you can have a much more open mind.

http://members.aol.com/nogodhere/index.html

Go there. Any stupid Fundies should.

[Moskitto]

Religion is not opposed to science, Science is study of how things happen, Religion is study of why things happen, learn to understand the difference.

"If we do not cling onto selfishness, greed or riches, then, I believe, we are getting closer to god" - Daniel Ortega

explain how the fuck religion is capitalist. And it's your ideas that are fascist, not religion.

And yeah, taking kids away from their parents is kidnapping. That's what they did in Cambodia with "re-education camps."

(Edited by Moskitto at 7:50 pm on Aug. 25, 2002)

[pastradamus]

You'll have to excuse my friend mazdak,he's a not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer ;)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 6:48 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
I am serious...

Religion IS opposed to religion.
Ok... so you cant disprove religion, but can you disprove the existance of fire breathing dragons? No. It is that simple. At least Fire breathing dragons dont cause the problems religion does.

Kidnapping them? No. I am simply, educating them, before religion becomes ingrained into their system.
Religion is a capitalist/facist tool to oppress the masses. The people are so busy praying that they have no time to think about why they are in the situation they are in. Without religion, you can have a much more open mind.

http://members.aol.com/nogodhere/index.html

Go there. Any stupid Fundies should.



um you are probably one of the more closed minded individuals here so I doubt your belief of anti religion=open mind.

Second I grew up in a family that believes in GOd, yet my family is open minded both me and my father disagree alot with current organized religion.

Not to mention I'm not a strict christian

i believe in chrislamism (christianity, islam, buddhism)

not a saved religion but all three make sense.

Religion is only ingrained into you if your parents do that to you.

Atheism is only ingrained into you if someone kidnaps you and brainwashes a system known as "Mazdak deprogrammin"

Religion does help people through hard times.

When my family was dirt poor our church helped us out alot

and get this it was a catholic church, one of the more opressive types of religion.

SO i wouldn't badmouth people that help people.

[Moskitto]

A saved religion?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Moskitto on 10:05 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
A saved religion?

sorry my brother turned off my screen to see if I could type with out seeing, one of my few mistakes.

What I meant not a set religion but still...

[Moskitto]

oh, I see. I'm a sort of Christian/Hindu/Taoist myself.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Moskitto on 11:34 pm on Aug. 25, 2002
oh, I see. I'm a sort of Christian/Hindu/Taoist myself.

you mockin me?

[Mazdak]

Religion IS capitalist. It involves an elite class(priest/clergy). I dont care if you call it closemindedness, however, you are(lardlad) one of the few who, once introduced to religion actually got away from it(sort of). To be religous is to be close minded.

and if it resembles what happened in cambodia, than so be it. I could care less. It is a way to end religion.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to burn in the eternal flames of the blackest Hell! :biggrin:

At least thats what some fundy at skool told me.

[andresG]

I thank God that I don't believe in God.

[Anonymous]

A-men!

[boadicea88]

Hey, Mazdak, what kind of religion are you talking about? Do you think I'm closed-minded? I know you don't know me very well...
I've been called 'heathen' by fundys. Also told that I'll burn in hell.

[Lardlad95]

It doesnt make sense why you feel all religion is evil.

I agree the catholic church has a hiearchy.

but for most intellegent people religion is only as opressive as you let it be.

I do believe that the Catholic church needs to reevaluate it's self.

[Moskitto]

Art. 2. In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national,
ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(B) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Art. 3. The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;
(B) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
© Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.

Mazdak=Genocidal

(Edited by Moskitto at 10:56 pm on Aug. 26, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Well we all knew mazdak wanted to kill astronomical numbers of people....thats not news thats fact

[Mazdak]

Numbers dont matter. A million useless people arent worth one useful one. And religious people arent useful. Boadicea88, i have no reason to make assumptions about anyone who is not all that religious. The groups which i would like to "persecute"(it pleases lardlad and his cronnies if i say that) are only the fundamentalist at first. Open minded people, i can be more diplomatic with.

[boadicea88]

OK, cool.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:24 am on Aug. 27, 2002
Numbers dont matter. A million useless people arent worth one useful one. And religious people arent useful. Boadicea88, i have no reason to make assumptions about anyone who is not all that religious. The groups which i would like to "persecute"(it pleases lardlad and his cronnies if i say that) are only the fundamentalist at first. Open minded people, i can be more diplomatic with.


not helpful? Religous people have helped me out when I couldn't afford clean clothes and was living in a fuckin delapidated trailer picking ticks off my dog and my self.

Because you believe in God that doesn't mean you are clsoed minded.

And teh opposite is true also.

You don't believe in God yet you seem to be very closed minded

[Mazdak]

Closed minded about what? How important are my musical tastes to history? Does it matter to us what Lenin listened too? If he listened to rep(which i know wasnt around) i wouldnt lose any respect for him.

They help you sure. But after donating huge sums to them. This is the thing. Religious charities seem peaceful and good. But they are not. THEY ARE RELIGIOUS.

Who cares, do you know why it was religious people who helped you clean your dog. because there are SOO many. I will personally help you clean your dog in the future(i like ticks anyway) if it takes this excuse away from you.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:57 am on Aug. 27, 2002
Closed minded about what? How important are my musical tastes to history? Does it matter to us what Lenin listened too? If he listened to rep(which i know wasnt around) i wouldnt lose any respect for him.

They help you sure. But after donating huge sums to them. This is the thing. Religious charities seem peaceful and good. But they are not. THEY ARE RELIGIOUS.

Who cares, do you know why it was religious people who helped you clean your dog. because there are SOO many. I will personally help you clean your dog in the future(i like ticks anyway) if it takes this excuse away from you.

You are closed minded about religion, very closed minded.

Also I have found that you have a tendancy to stereotype things and refuse to accept that your generalizations don't apply to everyone.

You seem to feel that your own beliefs are right and that those of others are wrong, with out any possiblity.

Instead of taking them as opinion you take them as fact.

And if you went to school they tell you what the difference between fact and opinion

I suggest you find a dictionary and look the two up

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:57 am on Aug. 27, 2002
Closed minded about what? How important are my musical tastes to history? Does it matter to us what Lenin listened too? If he listened to rep(which i know wasnt around) i wouldnt lose any respect for him.

They help you sure. But after donating huge sums to them. This is the thing. Religious charities seem peaceful and good. But they are not. THEY ARE RELIGIOUS.

Who cares, do you know why it was religious people who helped you clean your dog. because there are SOO many. I will personally help you clean your dog in the future(i like ticks anyway) if it takes this excuse away from you.


also they didn't help me clean the dog I meant at the time when i ahd to pick off ticks form the dog and myself.

[Mazdak]

Being atheist is understanding religions. I have probably more religious matter in my house then you lardlad. I have read much on the bible and read many quotes from it. I have looked at other religions as well. Your arguments make no sense. They are the same thing regurgitated over and over. I could start an atheist charity doing the same thing, and we would be able to give more money to those in need because we wouldnt need money to buy pedaphile priests expensive lawyers.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:10 am on Aug. 27, 2002
Being atheist is understanding religions. I have probably more religious matter in my house then you lardlad. I have read much on the bible and read many quotes from it. I have looked at other religions as well. Your arguments make no sense. They are the same thing regurgitated over and over. I could start an atheist charity doing the same thing, and we would be able to give more money to those in need because we wouldnt need money to buy pedaphile priests expensive lawyers.

If my arguements are regurgitated over and over then how can they make no sense? Obviously to discover they are regurgitated you must know what they mean.

Anyway what you speak of has nothing to do with religion its self.

the matter of is religion helpful or not is a totally irrelevant matter.

Because at its base religion isn't about public works, its about worship.

HTe fact that they do help people is an added bonus.

Not to mention the pedophile priest thing isn't funny. I've known priests that aren't pedophiles.

Not to mention I'm sure you an find a pedophile in almost all occupations.


Atheist Charity? WHat do you think governments do publick works for. THey aren't religious.

And I also know religions. Atheism isn't understanding religion.

There are atheist who know couldn't know less about religion.

Atheism is a belief in no religion.

It isn't a search for knowledge. What the hell are you talking about

[Anonymous]

Atheism is a lack of belief in anything.

[andresG]

Mazdak:
Lets say I don't believe in any organized church but I believe in a higher power who I pray to, would you persecute me?
How am I harming you by praying to whoever I believe in?

By the way, you don't have the right to persecute anyone for their religious beliefs. That is their decision. You will never turn the whole world atheist. You can not cantrol what people think in their own minds, and why would you want to?

[Lardlad95]

andres is right no matter how hard you try you will never really control people's minds

though it makes no sense why you would want to

[Moskitto]

They help you sure. But after donating huge sums to them. This is the thing. Religious charities seem peaceful and good. But they are not. THEY ARE RELIGIOUS.

You're logic is actually worse than Capitalist's. You're argueing that organizations are de facto bad because they are religious ignoring anything else they do in a similar way that Capitalist was argueing that Traidcraft was de facto not fair trade because the oranges were grown in Cuba despite the fact that if this allegation were true Traidcraft would be nailed by trading standards.

Oh and Mazdak, I seriously daubt you have more religious material in your house than I do. Anyway, In Cambodia they killed people who had books and that's the type of country you support.

and if it resembles what happened in cambodia, than so be it. I could care less. It is a way to end religion.

[Mazdak]

I am not trying to control peoples minds, i am trying to stop religion from controlling peoples LIVES. Throughout history, religion has been holding us back, and now that we have substantial evidence against most religions, there are still ignorant fools who actually believe in, as George Carlin said, "the invisible man, lving up in the clouds."

[Moskitto]

"Substantial Evidence against most religions"

YOU are the one who is ignorant, despite what your wet dream Cambodia hell state might have believed, No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God.

[Capitalist Fighter]

Quote: from Moskitto on 4:20 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
"Substantial Evidence against most religions"

YOU are the one who is ignorant, despite what your wet dream Cambodia hell state might have believed, No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God.

amen to that

[Mazdak]

So what? cant disprove? I cant? well, as i said before, you cant disprove the existance of fire breathing dragons. But you can get close enough. Religion is made up by people. science isnt. It is based on research, not some drunkard deciding to make up a fun story.

[Marxist1848]

"Not to mention the pedophile priest thing isn't funny. I've known priests that aren't pedophiles. "

Well ive known dogs that dont bark.
And ive know birds that dont fly.
And ive also known fish that dont swim.

But many dogs/birds/fish barl/fly/swim. thats a fact.
I know the media over exxagertaed this. But that is good. it just shows that priests are NORMAL people idolisized by the religious public. PATHETIC.

The church has made priests and officials out as being these completely flawless people. Im happy this hole ordeal was inflated because it is a wakeup call to the public (the many stupid and ignorant) that just as anyone can be a peadophile...priests are as normal as you and i. just with some wacked out radical group who worships an invisible man in the sky and follows a list of 10 things he does not want you to do calling him "special".

[Marxist1848]

"athiesm is a belief in no religion"
no
athiesm is lack of belief or faith in a higher being (god,allah,buddha...whatever) and lack of acceptance.
LACK OR NO BELIFE AT ALL.
athiesm has nothing to do with what you believe but with what you DONT believe. it is not a religion!

[Marxist1848]

"No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God. "
and you cannot prove it either.
oh and yes i know...
"well you cxant see the wind ...but its there!"
fuck you people who say that. you are making excuses for your stupidity.
I cant prove that aliens dont exist or that unicorns dont exist. I am going to start a religion bases on a giant mystical creature who has breathe that breathes acid and kills nazi's. he is 90 ft tall and has a purple beard. his name is lisa and he is married to a dog...which is the queen of my religion. PROVE MY RELIGION WRONG!!!!!
ah you cant. again showing that your little pathetic faith is as bullshit witted as my giant man named lisa!!!

[abstractmentality]

whether or not the faith you have is true is irrelevant to the discussion with Mazdak. the point is that you should not be allowed to force your personal beliefs onto another in the form mazdak is refering to. believe me, i dont have faith either, i am an atheist, but to force my belief onto another with the methods mazdak is speaking of is just flat out wrong!

[Mazdak]

Yes, but my opinion, it isnt just an opinion, in this case it is true. It needs to be pushed on people. Humanity will progress rapidly without religions confrontation.

[Moskitto]

"No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God. "
and you cannot prove it either.

That would be why I said you cannot prove or disprove the existance of God.

[Mazdak]

Ok. Can you prove the existance of elves and green goblins. Whats to say there is no tooth fairy? Nothing. But i dont see you complaining about them. They are in the same line as God and the holy spirit and all this nonsense. But at least they dont cause wars and division.

[Moskitto]

Gee, I actually become worried when the only person who actually read my post was Capitalist Fighter, Let me Post it again, putting in Bold everything I said of any relevence.

YOU are the one who is ignorant, despite what your wet dream Cambodia hell state might have believed, No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God.

Capitalist Fighter you are quite possibly the truest person who has posted.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Mazdak on 11:14 am on Aug. 27, 2002
I am not trying to control peoples minds, i am trying to stop religion from controlling peoples LIVES. Throughout history, religion has been holding us back, and now that we have substantial evidence against most religions, there are still ignorant fools who actually believe in, as George Carlin said, "the invisible man, lving up in the clouds."How the fuck does religion control people's lives? My life barely changed at all when I stopped believing in a higher power. My friends who are atheists are hardly different from my friends who are born-again Christians. Religion's mind-control properties are just a myth.

Lindsay

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 5:56 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
"No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God. "
and you cannot prove it either.
oh and yes i know...
"well you cxant see the wind ...but its there!"
fuck you people who say that. you are making excuses for your stupidity.
I cant prove that aliens dont exist or that unicorns dont exist. I am going to start a religion bases on a giant mystical creature who has breathe that breathes acid and kills nazi's. he is 90 ft tall and has a purple beard. his name is lisa and he is married to a dog...which is the queen of my religion. PROVE MY RELIGION WRONG!!!!!
ah you cant. again showing that your little pathetic faith is as bullshit witted as my giant man named lisa!!!


And you athiests make the excuse that because you can't see God he doesn't exist.

Or that because you have no tangible evidence that he does.

You have no evidence proving your case either.

Also the point is you can't prove that there is no giant.

So why bother, your not gonna convince anyone.

Because neither side has evidence

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 8:45 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
Ok. Can you prove the existance of elves and green goblins. Whats to say there is no tooth fairy? Nothing. But i dont see you complaining about them. They are in the same line as God and the holy spirit and all this nonsense. But at least they dont cause wars and division.



So God actualy started the wars? Did he shoot the first gun? did he hurl the first grenade?


No people cause wars.


All you are doing is blaming things on God that people caused.

Stop using human's mistakes to prove your point.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 8:45 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
Ok. Can you prove the existance of elves and green goblins. Whats to say there is no tooth fairy? Nothing. But i dont see you complaining about them. They are in the same line as God and the holy spirit and all this nonsense. But at least they dont cause wars and division.


do you realize how dumb that sounds?

in my opinion it isnt opinion....then what the hell is it? A metaphor...a similie....no opinion fits i'll go with opinion

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 5:56 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
"No One has been able to prove or disprove the existance of God. "
and you cannot prove it either.
oh and yes i know...
"well you cxant see the wind ...but its there!"
fuck you people who say that. you are making excuses for your stupidity.
I cant prove that aliens dont exist or that unicorns dont exist. I am going to start a religion bases on a giant mystical creature who has breathe that breathes acid and kills nazi's. he is 90 ft tall and has a purple beard. his name is lisa and he is married to a dog...which is the queen of my religion. PROVE MY RELIGION WRONG!!!!!
ah you cant. again showing that your little pathetic faith is as bullshit witted as my giant man named lisa!!!


Faith in God and believing in God are two different things.

Believing means you just awknowledge his existence

Faith means you believe he will provide for you in life or death.

Faith kept me from commiting suicide so i wouldn't count it out.

And faith came through for me in the end.

he arguement shouldn't be wethere religion is crap or not.

Thats irrelevant because I don't want to convince you and you WONT convince me.

What we should be argueing is wether or not the governemtn should be able to force you to believe something

[Moskitto]

well, of course Mazdak, you have to admit that if God doesn't exist then God cannot be responsible for those wars as he does not exist, therefore people are responsible for those wars and you cannot blame those wars on God, therefore religion is not the problem.

[Mazdak]

You people.... are so... pathetic. I can't believe this. You resort to trying top find a double meaning to what i said. Did god kill no, but killin in the name of God is constant. So religion started wars. Many come to mind. I am tired of repeating myself.

[Moskitto]

Organized religion killed. Therefore theoretically you have absolutely no problems with people believing in god, only organized religion.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:24 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
You people.... are so... pathetic. I can't believe this. You resort to trying top find a double meaning to what i said. Did god kill no, but killin in the name of God is constant. So religion started wars. Many come to mind. I am tired of repeating myself.


Billy is an atheist...Billy kills Johnny


Timmy is an atheist, timmy is responsible for Johnny's death.

Does that seem right?

No it doesn't and it makes no sense.

People who start wars in the name of God aren't doing it in the name of God they are using that as an excuse for their own selfishness

BEcause someone who believes in God does something doesn't mean everyone who believes in God is at fault or supporting that person

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 10:29 pm on Aug. 27, 2002)

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:03 pm on Aug. 27, 2002

he arguement shouldn't be wethere religion is crap or not.

Thats irrelevant because I don't want to convince you and you WONT convince me.

What we should be argueing is wether or not the governemtn should be able to force you to believe something


exactly my thoughts! the debate on whether or not religion or the belief in any type of higher being is irrelevant, and we should focus on the government regulations of religion or beliefs. can we try to stick to that, as i have mentioned before in this thread.

[Lardlad95]

I agree since no one can ever prove either arguement there is no point in trying convincing each other

[Mazdak]

Overload... too much. I am tired of these stupid arguments. I give up. this is getting me no where.. all i do is repeat myself over and over and over.......

too many threads.....

Fuck it. Just know that you have not won.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:59 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
Overload... too much. I am tired of these stupid arguments. I give up. this is getting me no where.. all i do is repeat myself over and over and over.......

too many threads.....

Fuck it. Just know that you have not won.

I know that, but neither have you.

Like I said I never planned to convinve you. Cuz I knew I couldn't, just like you couldn't convince me.

[Anonymous]

If it cannot be proven with logical reasoning that God exists....well then he doesn't exist.

Why do some people believe there has to be a concious power behind the universe? There is no evidence.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 11:34 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
If it cannot be proven with logical reasoning that God exists....well then he doesn't exist.

Why do some people believe there has to be a concious power behind the universe? There is no evidence.

because there is also no proof that he doesn't.

[Nateddi]

"the burden of proof rests on he who asserts the positive"

do you support the concept of innocent until proven guilty?

[Anonymous]

The proof that there is no God comes from the fact that you can't prove his existence.

[RedCeltic]

I've notice, as many threads tend to do... that the topic has shifted from the Religious right to Religon in general.

Most here seem to agree that religion and politics shouldn't be mixed. However, one has to wonder, how could they not be mixed when Christian fundementalist values are so intrenched into many southerners minds.

I just saw something about a university in ...North Carolina I think... where the professors assigned a book for students to read during the Summer. The book was desgined to teach students about Muslims and the religion of Islam, without... actually teaching Islam.

A faculty member was on C-Span reading all kinds of angery e-mails he recieved telling him he's going to hell, or they should be teaching about Jesus not Mohomad, etc..

Apperently it's not the study of religion these people have a problem with...but rather which religion is being studied. I just can't see how people can fight for prayer in schools and Christian Religious instruction in schools, yet.. at the same time be against academic study of religion in schools!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 11:54 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
The proof that there is no God comes from the fact that you can't prove his existence.


the proof that God does exist is the fact that you can't prove that he does.

And the affirmative thing is bullshit because both sides can be looked on as affirmative

God exists: people who agree are affirmitve

God Does Not exist: people who agree are affirmative

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from RedCeltic on 11:59 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
I've notice, as many threads tend to do... that the topic has shifted from the Religious right to Religon in general.

Most here seem to agree that religion and politics shouldn't be mixed. However, one has to wonder, how could they not be mixed when Christian fundementalist values are so intrenched into many southerners minds.

I just saw something about a university in ...North Carolina I think... where the professors assigned a book for students to read during the Summer. The book was desgined to teach students about Muslims and the religion of Islam, without... actually teaching Islam.

A faculty member was on C-Span reading all kinds of angery e-mails he recieved telling him he's going to hell, or they should be teaching about Jesus not Mohomad, etc..

Apperently it's not the study of religion these people have a problem with...but rather which religion is being studied. I just can't see how people can fight for prayer in schools and Christian Religious instruction in schools, yet.. at the same time be against academic study of religion in schools!


which was my point in the first place.

the religious right is almost as closed minded as mazdak :)

anyway at its base Christians and Muslims worship the same God


of course CHristians mistook Jesus and believed he was the son of God when in fact St. paul made this up.


The muslims are right

[Marxist1848]

"If it cannot be proven with logical reasoning that God exists....well then he doesn't exist.

Why do some people believe there has to be a concious power behind the universe? There is no evidence. "


THANK YOU DARK CAPITALIST!!!!!!!!!
!!!APPLAUSE!!!
finally a person with some sense and lack of inanity.
you are a compitent person
unlike many others on this site.

"because there is also no proof that he doesn't. "
STOP IT.
you are argueing like a bunch of little schol children!
"i know you are but what am i" "i know you are but what am i"
SHUT UP.
Your argument is an argument equal to proving your little mystical dieties exist and its pathetic.
another thing. If you can argue the above...why do you choose your religion other than an oppsing religion? they all say "because there is also no proof that he doesn't. " about there specific god.What is so different other than the set of rules to guide (guide my ass...DICTATE!) your life?

Please explain

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 1:18 am on Aug. 28, 2002
"If it cannot be proven with logical reasoning that God exists....well then he doesn't exist.

Why do some people believe there has to be a concious power behind the universe? There is no evidence. "


THANK YOU DARK CAPITALIST!!!!!!!!!
!!!APPLAUSE!!!
finally a person with some sense and lack of inanity.
you are a compitent person
unlike many others on this site.

"because there is also no proof that he doesn't. "
STOP IT.
you are argueing like a bunch of little schol children!
"i know you are but what am i" "i know you are but what am i"
SHUT UP.
Your argument is an argument equal to proving your little mystical dieties exist and its pathetic.
another thing. If you can argue the above...why do you choose your religion other than an oppsing religion? they all say "because there is also no proof that he doesn't. " about there specific god.What is so different other than the set of rules to guide (guide my ass...DICTATE!) your life?

Please explain


becuase a religious faith is personal belief, what is true for you is true for you.

Personally I don't believe in Hinduishm.

My concept of God makes sense to me, and thats good enough for me.

Your belief (or lack there of) is good enough for you.

I can't make a decision that doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention alot of religions that I don't believe in apply to to its own particular people.

Christinaity, Islam, and Buddihsm are more universal.

I don't have to be middle eastern to follow the quran.

Hinduishm however talks about caste systems and othe such things that applied alot to Indian life.

Religion doesn't dictate my life. Don't take the lord's name in vain? I say God Damn it all the time.

Atheism isn't right for me so why should I believe in its "message"?

I can't prove to you that God exists any God(s) what so ever.

but you also can't prove that little green elves don't live under the ground in manhattan.

You can only follow what makes sense to you, nothing more.

Now in the following I'm being totally honest.

Marxist: Get this through your head, you aren't right about this. I'm not right about this.

Neither of us is right, so far that we know of. Your personal beliefs cannot be proven thus far, meaning you aren't right.

My beliefs cannot be proven thus far, meaning I'm not right.

All we have is speculation and opinion.

Neither of which is fact.

However you aren't openminded enough to realize that you aren't right about everything.

No you assume you are right about everything because you are yourself. Because they are your beliefs.

"If you cannot prove through logical reasoning that God exists...well then he doesn't exist"

If that is what you guys call proof you aren't making a good case.

Once again, I'm not argueing my personal beliefs.

I'm saying that both sides can't be proven.

but if you want logic....

the only way that the Universe at its core begining is of cause and efect would be an oscilatting universe.

IE. Big Bang, expand, expand, expand, Contract, contract, coontract, Big Crunch, Big Bang, expand, expand, expand, contract, contract, contract, Big Crunch, Big Bang.

However ask most physicists and they will tell you the theory of a contracting or oscialting universe isn't very likely.

The universe doesn't and will not have enough matter to contract on its self.

And even if it did the weight of the universe is infinetly spread out.

The weight isn't held in a center location. It expands from the outside even further.

Now if it spread from the center out then the cause and effect of the universe would be complete.

However since their is no possible way for the universe to contract then it can't oscillate.

Then the big bang had to be caused by some other force. The matter had to be created some other way.

The matter cannot be infinite, because there is no other possibility for how the matter came into existence.

Explosions don't happen for no reason at all. And the only possibility I can come up with is that deep with in the matter a reaction occured when one type of matter came in contact with another.

But that only suggest how the explosion occurd but there is no explation of how the matter came into being.

Not to mention how can matter so tiny or large (depend on what stage of the universe you look at) exist within its self?

It has to reside insome thing. THen you must ask your self what does this matter that the Universe resides in, where does it reside.

There always must be something, and to suggest that it resides with in its self is a concept that promotes GOd.

No matter which way you turn the concepts have some concept that is similar to that of God.

God: exists within himself

God: is infinite, has no begining or no end.

Isn't that really the concept of infinity? People assume infinity just means that the numbers continue on forever.

But that isn't just it. Numbers continue on forever negativley also.

No begining or no end= God.

THe highest number you can think of there is also a negative equivilant.

However numbers are a concept, they can continue on forever and ever forwards and backwards.

Matter however can't. Matter does not just exist for the sake of existing it is cause and effect.

Only some that needs no cause and effect GOd, another concept can create something that needs cause and effect.

Before the concepts of numbers was created it was still infinite.

Before we knew the Earth revolved around the sun, the earth still revolved around the sun didn't it?

So how can an infinite concept like God be so farfetched?

Did we need to believe in him for him to exist if he truly is infinite?

And did we need to create numbers for them to be infinite?

Matter is only partially infinite. It needs a starting point. Shown in the diagram.
God(A concept)
Has no Starting point, or needs of one.
<------------------------------------------------------------------->
Numbers(A concept)
Continues on in either direction forever.
<------------------------------------------------------------------->

Universe(Matter)
While the universe expands in all directions that is only because it is three dimensional. It still has a center which does not expand, the center is the same as it was when the universe was small. Since it is matter it cannot continue infinetly in all forms. Matter cannot contract and expand at the same time.
o---------------------------------------->


To be infinite you must be able to expand and contract at the same time, endless.

Matter can not Expand and contract at the same time its impossible.

The universe cannot exist within its self then.

The universe isn't infinite, it was created at its core begining.


There fore Unless matter can exist and not exist at the same time it is not infinite.

To those who say that matter just always was, you are getting into the same concept as God.

Saying God always was, matter always was.

Either way at the begining you will find something infinite. And as I have explained it can't be matter.

If matter were to exist and not exist at the same time there were to be some other plane of existence for the opposite of matter to exist in.

A concept that can seem as far fetched as God.

Matter must be created, it does not exist for the sake of existing, it is not completely infinite, it does not exist and not exist a the same time.

The universe had to be created.

There we go marxist, some logic.

[andresG]

Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?

P.S.
You didn't answer how my belief of a higher being would harm you.

[abstractmentality]

Mazdak, lardlad, and I have all basically said we will give the debate on the existence of a supreme being because it is really getting nowhere, can the rest of you (marxists1848, dark capitalist) please leave it alone! it isnt getting anywhere, and, to be blunt, im getting tired of it. like i have said twice, we should not be trying to prove/disprove the existence of a god, but rather whether or not the government should be allowed to "regulate" it.

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from andresG on 6:38 pm on Aug. 27, 2002
Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?


thank you for pointing this out. i think that to be oh so true.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 2:40 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak, lardlad, and I have all basically said we will give the debate on the existence of a supreme being because it is really getting nowhere, can the rest of you (marxists1848, dark capitalist) please leave it alone! it isnt getting anywhere, and, to be blunt, im getting tired of it. like i have said twice, we should not be trying to prove/disprove the existence of a god, but rather whether or not the government should be allowed to "regulate" it.


yeah i wanna discuss that to but first I want Marxist to reply to the logic I was required to post

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 6:46 pm on Aug. 27, 2002

Quote: from abstractmentality on 2:40 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak, lardlad, and I have all basically said we will give the debate on the existence of a supreme being because it is really getting nowhere, can the rest of you (marxists1848, dark capitalist) please leave it alone! it isnt getting anywhere, and, to be blunt, im getting tired of it. like i have said twice, we should not be trying to prove/disprove the existence of a god, but rather whether or not the government should be allowed to "regulate" it.


yeah i wanna discuss that to but first I want Marxist to reply to the logic I was required to post

ok lardlad, you put up some good stuff, so i dont mind you waiting on marxists reply, although i dont think he will have much to say.

[Mazdak]

Quote: from andresG on 2:38 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?


They wont if they arent alive to believe it. And like i said, you reeducate the children and try to convert the parents. It would be far more simple then thought.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:59 am on Aug. 28, 2002

Quote: from andresG on 2:38 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?


They wont if they arent alive to believe it. And like i said, you reeducate the children and try to convert the parents. It would be far more simple then thought.

So so so opressive

[Mazdak]

Yes, but it is not pointless oppression, it is beneficial to ALL people. When people dont have religion, it is easier to see others as equals.

[Lardlad95]

I think you are taking the Catholic heiarchy more serious than catholics do.

In the eyes of GOd we are all equal so if someone feels that they are superior to someone it is on them not God.

becuase that person has misinturpreted god

[Mazdak]

ARe we all equal? so priests have to pay taxes? What country to you live in?

[andresG]

Mazdak:
You want to kill people who believe in a God?

Don't you know that many revolutionaries have been very strong believers of a God.
Why do you feel that you must control peoples spiritual thoughts?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:19 am on Aug. 28, 2002
ARe we all equal? so priests have to pay taxes? What country to you live in?


that would be a valid arguement if I agreed with it.

That has nothing to do with teh church it has to do with teh government

[canikickit]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:08 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Yes, but it is not pointless oppression, it is beneficial to ALL people. When people dont have religion, it is easier to see others as equals.


It is not beneficial to the people who are being killed.
I must say I agree that religion is bullshit but the idea that it should be "banned" is just insane. That is what the plantation owners tried to do, that is what the English tried to do and I hate those fuckers. The pricks.


(when I say the English and the Plantation owners...they didn't try and ban religion but they tried to ban certain Religions, to suit their own needs).
(I don't hate English people, just the ones that decided to try and run my country).


if you go to your dictionary, one of the meanings of "religion" is:

a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

I think, in the face of this, Mazdak you must withdraw all your comments saying Religion should be abolished......ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.....but I still see where you're coming from because its only one meaning of the word, but you must take that into account.

oh look, here is another meaning:
scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS

[Mazdak]

Well executing Hitler or Tojo isnt beneficial to them either is it?

[canikickit]

Congratulations Mazdak, you have won the prize for the stupidest reponse I have ever, ever seen on any site in the history of information superhighways.....of course their excecutions were not benificial to them...did you only manage to read eleven words of my post? You completely missed the point. I don't know why I'm surprised, I already knew you were an idiot....oh well.

[Moskitto]

We all know Mazdak was secretly supporting the Contras in the Nicaraguan civil war. He couldn't let the evil Daniel Ortega hold power so he wanted the Contras to get rid of him.

Go kiss Reagan's ass you traitor.

[canikickit]

When was Hitler excecuted anyway?

[Anonymous]

Quote: from canikickit on 12:05 am on Aug. 29, 2002
When was Hitler excecuted anyway?

He comitted suicide.

[Mazdak]

I know that he committed suicide but you make it sound like i want to help the people that i am "supposedly" going to execute. Why am i on the pedestal? Lets make up a dictator name and he will have all the qualities i want in a leader. Lets name him.... jim jones.
He has decided to ban all religon. You can keep some of your idiotic spiritual beliefs but try to spread them and then you get thrown in labor camp. That is my stance on the issue. However, Organized religion still should be banned.

I am not withdrawing my views, I believe them 100%. Here is another view of mine: The world, although should continue to have diverse languages, one universal language should be known.


I never thought i would actaully to some extent have a capitalist supporter...

[Sasafrás]

I think that we should kill people who think that we should kill people who believe in a Higher Power. :) Smashing idea, yes?

[Mazdak]

Yeah!.... wait a minute.... No!!!
You will be put on jim jones's list of people to execute when he comes to power.

[Moskitto]

I don't listen to Contras. They're stupid, therefore Mazdak is stupid as he is a Contra.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 9:48 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
Yeah!.... wait a minute.... No!!!
You will be put on jim jones's list of people to execute when he comes to power.


Note to self: Shut up Mazdak

Note to self: after Jim Jones assumes control grow very close to him and eventually take power and destroy the dictatorship and create Democratic Socialist society

Note To self: ....ask Shayla to marry me....should she refuse....kill her along with Jim Jones.

[andresG]

Mazdak is a supporter of the Contras?
Where did this come from?

[Anonymous]

Who's Jim Jones?

[Moskitto]

Mazdak is a supporter of the Contras because he sees any religion as the most evil thing which must be destroyed, therefore he opposes the Sandinistas as their leader (Daniel Ortega) is an Evangelical Christian.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 10:22 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
Who's Jim Jones?



A fictional dictator Mazdak made up...its basicaly Mazdak's human god.....sorta like a pahroah.

To mazdak he is perfect in every way because he would killl his own mother if she een disagreed about one thing with him....even if she disagreed about what color tie he should wear

[Sasafrás]

Who was that guy who went down to Guyana with all his religious fanatics and they committed suicide? What was his name?

[vox]

Jim Jones, of purple koolaid fame, was the leader of the People's Temple who created Jonestown in Guyana. Mass suicide/murder (depending on which stories you listen to) ensued. NPR has a great show about him in its archives, which you con listen to with RealAudio. It's about an hour and a half long, as I recall, and well worth it.

vox

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from vox on 4:54 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
Jim Jones, of purple koolaid fame, was the leader of the People's Temple who created Jonestown in Guyana. Mass suicide/murder (depending on which stories you listen to) ensued. NPR has a great show about him in its archives, which you con listen to with RealAudio. It's about an hour and a half long, as I recall, and well worth it.

voxGracias, vox.

[Moskitto]

Cults are sort of funny, listening to the mad cults people invent to try and control people.

[boadicea88]

I suppose I don't follow Hinduism exactly, I should say I follow the teachings of Sri Krishna and the Bhagavad Gita. I disagree vehemently with their notions of caste etc, the way they they treat the wimmin, and by now the way they treat the cows they used to have so much reverence for :angry:
Mazdak, read chapter 2 of the Bhagavad Gita, the Stephen Mitchell translation, ISBN 0-609-60550-X.
That, in my opinion, is a good way of using religion to better yourself in preparation for war. Tell me what you think, or if you're gonne read it.

[vox]

bodicea,

And what of ahimsa? Nothing about that?

vox

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Mazdak on 7:59 am on Aug. 28, 2002

Quote: from andresG on 2:38 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?


They wont if they arent alive to believe it. And like i said, you reeducate the children and try to convert the parents. It would be far more simple then thought.


Go shove your head in a deep frier so I can watch the bubbled incrusted skin fall off your face.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:32 am on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from Mazdak on 7:59 am on Aug. 28, 2002

Quote: from andresG on 2:38 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?


They wont if they arent alive to believe it. And like i said, you reeducate the children and try to convert the parents. It would be far more simple then thought.


Go shove your head in a deep frier so I can watch the bubbled incrusted skin fall off your face.

oh my god.....

Lardlad: for once I actually agree with you Dark Capitalist

Dark Capitlist: yeah I know, I'm scared also Lardlad

[Anonymous]

To me, that was always one of the worst types of pain a human being could endure.

[Marxist1848]

"Cults are sort of funny, listening to the mad cults people invent to try and control people."

And religion is different in ...what way?
Ask yourself how the concept of religion started. First higher beings were created by TRIBES and small groups of people praying to the animals that they hunted. they were greatful that the animals gave themselves. Then the idea was taken to the next level. they no longer worshipped the animals but a bunch of gods who were higher than the animals. Polytheism was born. Everything had a god and when something weas needed the god was praised. then this, after tame, became more and more radical-consisting of 5 or more prayers daily and human and animals sacrifices. Some people hated the fact that there were many gods (reason unknown) so they found that worshiping ONE god would save alot of time and effort. Some people then started claiming that they were directly contacted or communicated to from "god". these people were called prophets. These communications led to the most genocides,murders,inhumanities against the masses, and oppression of anything else in HISTORY (read the bible if you doubt me). then the government created standard or organized religion (moses being one of them) Then we had these people elected as priests who would be incharge of telling the governments what people were aloud to do by "god'. Then the government used this theory of a higher being to control people and threaten them with punishment higher than any other authority could administer - eternity in hell. But when moses came down with these rules from this mountain. he was dishing out a list of rules for "his" people to follow because i think he wanted some order in his society. He saw the isrealites were being uinfairly treated so he used the scapegoat of god to scare the pharoe. And when that didnt work he took andvantage of the natural coincidences (frogs, plague(actaully anthrax created by algea) flies, red water, etc.

And when jesus had his followers? THAT WAS THE EQUIVILENT OF A CURRENT DAY CULT!!
Jesus proclaimed he was some holy son of god and he had a bunch of "disciples" who followeed him around mindlessly. I know many cults ae bad with sacrifice, murder, drugs, and suicide, but even the peaceful ones are mocked. If jesus is worshipped why isnt the guy who claimed he was going to go on that comet. The onyl reason cults are abolished today is because we are afraid of change.

[vox]

"Jesus proclaimed he was some holy son of god and he had a bunch of "disciples" who followeed him around mindlessly."

Hmmm, there's some question as to whether the historical Jesus ever presented himself as the only son of God. Chances are he didn't. Also, what do you mean by "mindlessly?" Jesus chastised the apostles for having too little faith, as I recall. You want mindless obedience, go see Mazdak.

vox

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Marxist1848 on 1:34 am on Aug. 29, 2002
"Cults are sort of funny, listening to the mad cults people invent to try and control people."

And religion is different in ...what way?
Ask yourself how the concept of religion started. First higher beings were created by TRIBES and small groups of people praying to the animals that they hunted. they were greatful that the animals gave themselves. Then the idea was taken to the next level. they no longer worshipped the animals but a bunch of gods who were higher than the animals. Polytheism was born. Everything had a god and when something weas needed the god was praised. then this, after tame, became more and more radical-consisting of 5 or more prayers daily and human and animals sacrifices. Some people hated the fact that there were many gods (reason unknown) so they found that worshiping ONE god would save alot of time and effort. Some people then started claiming that they were directly contacted or communicated to from "god". these people were called prophets. These communications led to the most genocides,murders,inhumanities against the masses, and oppression of anything else in HISTORY (read the bible if you doubt me). then the government created standard or organized religion (moses being one of them) Then we had these people elected as priests who would be incharge of telling the governments what people were aloud to do by "god'. Then the government used this theory of a higher being to control people and threaten them with punishment higher than any other authority could administer - eternity in hell. But when moses came down with these rules from this mountain. he was dishing out a list of rules for "his" people to follow because i think he wanted some order in his society. He saw the isrealites were being uinfairly treated so he used the scapegoat of god to scare the pharoe. And when that didnt work he took andvantage of the natural coincidences (frogs, plague(actaully anthrax created by algea) flies, red water, etc.

And when jesus had his followers? THAT WAS THE EQUIVILENT OF A CURRENT DAY CULT!!
Jesus proclaimed he was some holy son of god and he had a bunch of "disciples" who followeed him around mindlessly. I know many cults ae bad with sacrifice, murder, drugs, and suicide, but even the peaceful ones are mocked. If jesus is worshipped why isnt the guy who claimed he was going to go on that comet. The onyl reason cults are abolished today is because we are afraid of change.



actualy it was St. Pual who claimed Jesus was the son of God.

Stop taking the Bible as a myth and research it as a historical document

[I Bow 4 Che]

God ha...I believe in no supreme being (I'll spare you all my mongoose theory) If there is a god, He is my worst enemy for creating me, that is the biggest sin I tell you...but there are people who "he" (or the idea of him) helps. I feel many people turn to god when they need "something" to believe in, to stand on...these people are the ones I envy, how you could believe in something so absurd, I have no idea, but it sounds so beautiful. I respect their beliefs just as I do my own. However (lol yes there it is!) I do feel that religon has been taken too seriously and should STAY just as a beleif or inspirartion not else...wafer!

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:32 am on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from Mazdak on 7:59 am on Aug. 28, 2002

Quote: from andresG on 2:38 am on Aug. 28, 2002
Mazdak:
Don't you know that if you were to take away religion from people, they would believe in it even more strongly?


They wont if they arent alive to believe it. And like i said, you reeducate the children and try to convert the parents. It would be far more simple then thought.


Go shove your head in a deep frier so I can watch the bubbled incrusted skin fall off your face.


That's from my Film "101 Ways to Die".

Way 1
Flash Frying
Guy: "Cooking oil's nice"
*spark lands on oil
BOOOOOM
*guy disintigrates

Well, it's funny if you're sadistic towards pixels.

[boadicea88]

Quote: from vox on 3:54 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
bodicea,

And what of ahimsa? Nothing about that?

vox


Ahimsa is Buddhist. I have incorporated a bit of it into my beliefs, which is why I'm a vegitarian.

[Spiritual Minded]

Why is religion primitive? What's your definition of religion?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 8:19 am on Aug. 29, 2002
God ha...I believe in no supreme being (I'll spare you all my mongoose theory) If there is a god, He is my worst enemy for creating me, that is the biggest sin I tell you...but there are people who "he" (or the idea of him) helps. I feel many people turn to god when they need "something" to believe in, to stand on...these people are the ones I envy, how you could believe in something so absurd, I have no idea, but it sounds so beautiful. I respect their beliefs just as I do my own. However (lol yes there it is!) I do feel that religon has been taken too seriously and should STAY just as a beleif or inspirartion not else...wafer!



If more atheist could be like you...we would have a better world and more respect for people.

And if more religous people could be less fundamentalist we would have a better world

[Moskitto]

In my experience, Fundamentalist Christians are less annoying than Fanatical Atheists. Fundamentalist Christians merely believe you haven't experienced "The true word of our lord" if you disagree with them, Fanatical Atheists, on the other hand, believe they are de-facto more intelligent because they do not believe in God therefore as they are more intelligent than theists then god does not exist, truely a falacy.

[Mazdak]

I am going to first post saying that no, Mr. Jim Jones that i made up was a random name made up on the spot. I needed a quick, easy to spell name. Jim Jones will stay.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Moskitto on 10:34 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
In my experience, Fundamentalist Christians are less annoying than Fanatical Atheists. Fundamentalist Christians merely believe you haven't experienced "The true word of our lord" if you disagree with them, Fanatical Atheists, on the other hand, believe they are de-facto more intelligent because they do not believe in God therefore as they are more intelligent than theists then god does not exist, truely a falacy.

i agree with that

[Mazdak]

Atheists are more intelligent. They use reason, not delusion(aka faith) to decide for them.

I can say one thing, that my grandfather always threw the Jehovah's witnesses and people looking to get you into religion out the door. It's your hell, why dont you go burn in it?

Boadicea88- where can i find this? i will read it if i can find it.

Lardlad and Dark Capitalist, since you are obviously going not stop with these useless debates of (well you cant see the wind) style argument. Sticking my head in a frier.

Jime Jones will remember this when he is in power. Then lardlad and DK will both have fun with a fryer. (j/k).

[I Bow 4 Che]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 10:09 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 8:19 am on Aug. 29, 2002
God ha...I believe in no supreme being (I'll spare you all my mongoose theory) If there is a god, He is my worst enemy for creating me, that is the biggest sin I tell you...but there are people who "he" (or the idea of him) helps. I feel many people turn to god when they need "something" to believe in, to stand on...these people are the ones I envy, how you could believe in something so absurd, I have no idea, but it sounds so beautiful. I respect their beliefs just as I do my own. However (lol yes there it is!) I do feel that religon has been taken too seriously and should STAY just as a beleif or inspirartion not else...wafer!



If more atheist could be like you...we would have a better world and more respect for people.

And if more religous people could be less fundamentalist we would have a better world


why thank you dear, and if more religous people could be more like you, I'm sure I wouldn't have such a fucking problem with it :)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:53 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
Atheists are more intelligent. They use reason, not delusion(aka faith) to decide for them.

I can say one thing, that my grandfather always threw the Jehovah's witnesses and people looking to get you into religion out the door. It's your hell, why dont you go burn in it?

Boadicea88- where can i find this? i will read it if i can find it.

Lardlad and Dark Capitalist, since you are obviously going not stop with these useless debates of (well you cant see the wind) style argument. Sticking my head in a frier.

Jime Jones will remember this when he is in power. Then lardlad and DK will both have fun with a fryer. (j/k).


Mazdak you preach your anti religion just as much as some people preach religion so don't act so holier than thou

second I have given logic for the basis of my belief but no one wants to argue that.

They just want to argue.

But my beef on that subject is With Marxist not you......

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 10:56 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 10:09 pm on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 8:19 am on Aug. 29, 2002
God ha...I believe in no supreme being (I'll spare you all my mongoose theory) If there is a god, He is my worst enemy for creating me, that is the biggest sin I tell you...but there are people who "he" (or the idea of him) helps. I feel many people turn to god when they need "something" to believe in, to stand on...these people are the ones I envy, how you could believe in something so absurd, I have no idea, but it sounds so beautiful. I respect their beliefs just as I do my own. However (lol yes there it is!) I do feel that religon has been taken too seriously and should STAY just as a beleif or inspirartion not else...wafer!



If more atheist could be like you...we would have a better world and more respect for people.

And if more religous people could be less fundamentalist we would have a better world


why thank you dear, and if more religous people could be more like you, I'm sure I wouldn't have such a fucking problem with it :)


Thanx IB4C

[Moskitto]

Mazdak, Do you have a PhD? Nope. Does Prof Russell Standard? Yes. what Religion is Prof Russell Standard? A Christian. What religion are you? Atheist. Therefore you are wrong.

[Moskitto]

Mazdak, If you Atheists are so much more intelligent, then how come none of you seem to have the slightest clue as to what Armenian Predestination is?

[Pinko]

At the very least, religion provides a model for society, it sets down ground rules and gives an incentive to obey those rules.
Religion also fills a space within us. It gives us somewhere to turn when we are alone in the dark. Being an atheist, I sometimes envy those with religion, their lives have a saftey net, they are happy because of it.
Religious types are often pilloried for trying to convert the non-believer, but they are just trying to share the completeness and warmth they feel. Atheists often try to persuade the believer of the error of their ways, they try to strip away that completeness and warmth. Who is the mean one there?
The problems occur when religion blinds us to the obvious, or the suffering of others. Where dogma creeps in, problems occur. Science is becoming dogmatic and people are strating to suffer because mainstream accademics are starting to pour derision and scorn onto new and inovative ideas.

Anyway, seeing as this thread is about people that annoy you...

Hypocrites piss me off so much it hurts. When ever I see a politician lie, whenever I hear people espouting what I know to be falsehoods and lies, whenever I see a company representative giving the company speil that is so obviously a dliberate attempt to mislead the masses, my blood pressure starts to rise. The so-called Western Word is in the fucked up state it is in because of lies and misinformation. The masses think that their governments and education system tell the truth and they go along with it all. They become complicit in crimes due to their ignorance.
That gets my goat going, so to speak.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Pinko on 12:15 am on Aug. 30, 2002
At the very least, religion provides a model for society, it sets down ground rules and gives an incentive to obey those rules.
Religion also fills a space within us. It gives us somewhere to turn when we are alone in the dark. Being an atheist, I sometimes envy those with religion, their lives have a saftey net, they are happy because of it.
Religious types are often pilloried for trying to convert the non-believer, but they are just trying to share the completeness and warmth they feel. Atheists often try to persuade the believer of the error of their ways, they try to strip away that completeness and warmth. Who is the mean one there?
The problems occur when religion blinds us to the obvious, or the suffering of others. Where dogma creeps in, problems occur. Science is becoming dogmatic and people are strating to suffer because mainstream accademics are starting to pour derision and scorn onto new and inovative ideas.

Anyway, seeing as this thread is about people that annoy you...

Hypocrites piss me off so much it hurts. When ever I see a politician lie, whenever I hear people espouting what I know to be falsehoods and lies, whenever I see a company representative giving the company speil that is so obviously a dliberate attempt to mislead the masses, my blood pressure starts to rise. The so-called Western Word is in the fucked up state it is in because of lies and misinformation. The masses think that their governments and education system tell the truth and they go along with it all. They become complicit in crimes due to their ignorance.
That gets my goat going, so to speak.

you seem to be a very intlegent person...good statement

[boadicea88]

Quote: from boadicea88 on 11:44 am on Aug. 29, 2002

Quote: from vox on 3:54 pm on Aug. 28, 2002
bodicea,

And what of ahimsa? Nothing about that?

vox


Ahimsa is Buddhist. I have incorporated a bit of it into my beliefs, which is why I'm a vegitarian.


I forgot to add- read chapter 2 of the Gita. It tells about stuff like that.

[Mazdak]

Hey Moskitto, just becaue we are more intelligent (at least in one respect) than the religious folk, doesnt make us super brain powre nerds. I may know a thing or two about history, but i am not the alll knowing great one (aka jim jones :) )

[Anonymous]

Why are you a stalinist?

[Mazdak]

I have explained this several times. My reason for being stalinist doesnt change overnight.


Why are you a capitalist?

[canikickit]

I think its time to kill this thread, its too long.

Its just the same as the "Atheism" thread.

[Mazdak]

I think you have nothing relevant to say. Go away.

[Guest]

Quote: from Moskitto on 11:32 pm on Aug. 29, 2002
Mazdak, If you Atheists are so much more intelligent, then how come none of you seem to have the slightest clue as to what Armenian Predestination is?


i have an idea of what it is, but that would be thanx to you moskitto. this is abstractmentality, i dont feel like signing in (im on a road trip, and am in a frat house at UCBerkeley right now). i wouldnt go so far as calling atheist or theist as being more intelligent. whether or not the belief, or lack thereof, is true, it doesnt matter. a mutual respect should be given, and then perhaps these huge threads would form as they do now.

[canikickit]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:35 am on Aug. 30, 2002
I think you have nothing relevant to say. Go away.


I don't think your oblique bullshit about "Jim Jones" is relevant, nor is asking why someone is a capitalist, I don't think you show much intelligence.

Like Pinko pointed out this post is/was about things that annoy people, not your prejudiced, jaundiced view of religion....but then that does annoy me, so.....

[boadicea88]

The above post wasn't exactly relevant...

[Moskitto]

Armenian Predestination is sensible because it is a rational solution to a theoretical problem.

[Mazdak]

canikick it. You are such a little dickhead it is unbelievable? I asked him why he was a cappie because he asked me why i was a stalinist. I have said it so many times already. So i decided not to bother typing it again.

[Guest]

Quote: from Moskitto on 11:09 am on Aug. 30, 2002
Armenian Predestination is sensible because it is a rational solution to a theoretical problem.


AM here again. im not saying that it is a bad idea if it came off that way, i was just trying to say that calling an atheist or a theist more intelligent isnt really relevnt to this tread (not sure who started that, but i think it was mazdak) and that i dont think you can make a valid claim either way.

[Moskitto]

I said that I find Fanatical Atheists more annoying than Fundamentalist Christians because Fanatical Atheists believe they are de-facto more intelligent because they do not believe in god, Mazdak merely confirmed this view.

[Mazdak]

Not more intelligent. More open to new ideas and logic.

[Lardlad95]

Mazdak how can you say atheist are more intellegent?

Give me some statistics.

Also how can you be so sure that you guys are open minded?

You are obviously not open minded enough to see that not all religion is bad

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 2:04 am on Aug. 31, 2002)

[Mazdak]

WE are open minded enough not to be anti abortion and anti death penalty and even anti science in some ways. Alot of stupid fundamentalists(like bush) are trying to turn the USA intoa theocracy. And unlike a productive atheist "theocracy(i will use nateddi's term, since it seems to make him happy that i do)", all the christian theocracy would produce would be a darkage. And Yes, religion helped keep Europe united during the darkages by-

Repressing new ideas, persecuting anyone with common sense or logic.
Sure they helped bnring it out of the darkages, NO ONE ELSE could read!!!

[Nateddi]

You are against the death penalty? what kind of stalinist are you :cheesy:

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:08 am on Aug. 31, 2002
WE are open minded enough not to be anti abortion and anti death penalty and even anti science in some ways. Alot of stupid fundamentalists(like bush) are trying to turn the USA intoa theocracy. And unlike a productive atheist "theocracy(i will use nateddi's term, since it seems to make him happy that i do)", all the christian theocracy would produce would be a darkage. And Yes, religion helped keep Europe united during the darkages by-

Repressing new ideas, persecuting anyone with common sense or logic.
Sure they helped bnring it out of the darkages, NO ONE ELSE could read!!!

mazdak have I ever said that science explained nothing?

You know I'm an open minded religious person.

If something is true I'm gonna admit it.


And you are right alot of fundamentalists are turning the US into a theocracy.

However i and many people like me aren't.

I'm not anti abortion, I think its morally wrong but it is a person's choice not mine.

I'm not anti science there alot of things science is good for.

However the Egyptians were one of the best scientists for their times and they had religion.

They were great astronomers mathmaticians and architecs.

So religion isn't always not anti science.

I am anti death penalty but you should be also since an Eye for an eye is in the bible.

But then again mazdak you wanna kill people for stupid shit.


The only reason monotheism is more widely accepted is because that unlike monotheistic religions it applies universaly.

Polythiesm often applied only to the group that spawned it.

Look at ancient egyptian religion, it often involved, the nile, the desert, egyptian animals.

Ancient greek/Roman religion: applied alot to greek physical land marks, mount olympus (an actual mountain), greek city states, greek daily life.

Hinduism: includes ganges river, indian civilization.

Monotheism does not reffer only to the culture that it is associated with.

It mainly involves a universal message. While it does involve the area that it's synonymous with it does not just apply to them.

Which is why anyone can be Jewish, anyone can be Christian, anyone can be muslim, anyone can be Buddhist (not monotheism or polytheism but it applies to all)

Not to say you can't be hindu but it wouldn't make as much sense.

And mazfak your the last person who should be talking about persecution.

You'd steal my children from me and brainwash them and imprison me if I didn't conform.

Under your laws I would be pesecuted for my beliefs

[Mazdak]

steal your children. What ever happened to private property Lardlad? Children arent your slaves lardlad.

I, or rather, jim jones, am not taking them away, Jim jones is saving them from the drug religion.

Jim jones wouldn't kill people who refused to convert. He would simply let them all continue worshipping, and they would eventaully die out.

[Nateddi]

>>Children arent your slaves lardlad.......... ..
.... Jim jones is saving them from the drug religion.


It seems more logical that children should belong to their parents, not to strangers.

[deadpool 52]

1. The "unmoved mover" argument. We know that there is motion in the world; whatever is in motion is moved by another thing; this other thing also much be moved by something; to avoid an infinite regression, we must posit a "first mover," which is God.

2. The "nothing is caused by itself" argument. For example, a table is brought into being by a carpenter, who is caused by his parents. Again, we cannot go on to infinity, so there must be a first cause, which is God.

3. The Cosmological argument. All physical things - even mountains, boulders, and rivers - come into being and go out of existence, no matter how long they last. Therefore, because time is infinite, there must be sometime at which none of these things existed. But if there were nothing at that point in time, how could there be anything at least one necessary thing that is eternal, which is God.

4. Objects in the world have differing degrees of qualities such as goodness. But speaking of more or less goodness makes sense only by comparison with what is the maximum goodness, which is God.

5. The teleological argument (argument from design). Things in the world move towards goals, just as the arrow does not move toward its goal except by the archer's directing it. Thus, there must be an intelligent designer who directs all things to their goals, and this is God.

God's existence is a necessary presupposition of there being any moral judgment that are objective, that go beyond mere relativistic moral preferences; such judgments require standards external to any human mind - that is, they presume God's mind.

[canikickit]

deadpool, these are all good arguments

except this, which is bullshit(to me):

4. Objects in the world have differing degrees of qualities such as goodness. But speaking of more or less goodness makes sense only by comparison with what is the maximum goodness, which is God.

but I don't really give a fuck either way, I don't think its very important. Also there is a difference between believing in a higher being and believing in religion.

ha! Mazdak, we know you don't believe in religion but what about a higher being? (you might have answered this before, but humour me)

yes, humour me!

[deadpool 52]

The ontological argument and the moral argument. The former, made famous by St. Anselm in the eleventh century and defended in another from by Rene Descartes, holds that it would be logically contradictory to deny God's existence. St. Anselm began by defining God as "that than which nothing greater can be conceived." If God existed only in the mind, He then would not be the greatest conceivable being, for we could imagine another being that is greater because it would exist both in the mind and in reality, and that being would then be God. Therefore, to imagine God as existing only in the mind but not in reality leads to a logical contradiction; this proves the existence of God both in the mind and in reality.

"The Problem of Evil."
This argument claims that the following three statements cannot all be true: (a) evil exists; (B) God is omnipotent; and &copy; God is all-loving. The argument is as follows:

*If God can prevent evil, but does not, then he is not all-loving.
*If God intends to prevent evil, but cannot, then He is not omnipotent.
*If God both intends to prevent evil and is capable of doing so, then how can evil exist?

The existence of an all-knowing God is incompatible with the fact of free will that humans do make choices. If God is omniscient, He must know beforehand exactly what a person will do in a given situation. In that case, a person is not in fact free to do the alternative to what God knows he or she will do, and free will must be an illusion. To take this one step further, if one chooses to commit a sin, how can it then be said that one sinned freely?

Hume also criticized the argument from design. In particular, he emphasized that there is no legitimate way we can infer the properties of God as the creator of the world from the qualities of His creation. For instance, Hume questioned how we can be sure that the world was not created by a team; or that this is not one of many attempts at creations, the first few having been botched; or, on the other hand, that our world is not a poor first attempt [b]"of an infant deity who afterwards abandoned it, ashamed of him lame performance."

[Moskitto]

The existence of an all-knowing God is incompatible with the fact of free will that humans do make choices. If God is omniscient, He must know beforehand exactly what a person will do in a given situation. In that case, a person is not in fact free to do the alternative to what God knows he or she will do, and free will must be an illusion. To take this one step further, if one chooses to commit a sin, how can it then be said that one sinned freely?

Armenian Predestination awnsers that. Onmiscient means that he can know. However because he is also Omnipotent he has the ability to choose not to know, therefore giving us free will again.

[Guest]

this is abstractmentality again.

dead pool: i think that just because we do not know what started "motion" in your case, doesnt necessitate a god being there. it simply means that we do not know what started it.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 3:48 am on Aug. 31, 2002
steal your children. What ever happened to private property Lardlad? Children arent your slaves lardlad.

I, or rather, jim jones, am not taking them away, Jim jones is saving them from the drug religion.

Jim jones wouldn't kill people who refused to convert. He would simply let them all continue worshipping, and they would eventaully die out.


Do you ever get tired of being a dumbass?

The thing is though I'm not against private property.

If you wanna waste the money you earned (which will be equal pay in my plan) on land go right the fuck ahead.

Also do my parents have the right to take you from your parents?

[Mazdak]

oh boy. First of all canikickit, the very idea of "an invisible man living in the clouds" is appalling and disgusting to me. I would NEVER believe in it.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 11:55 pm on Aug. 31, 2002
oh boy. First of all canikickit, the very idea of "an invisible man living in the clouds" is appalling and disgusting to me. I would NEVER believe in it.

great use of a cliche

anyway you seem to only disagree with it because of the stereotypes and lack of tangible belief (of course it depends on your perception of tangible)

However the cloud belief seems to be played out.

God and Heaven are more of metaphysical concepts.

I guess deep thought is beyond you, seeing as how you fail to try and consider and ponder all sides

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 5:05 pm on Aug. 31, 2002
this is abstractmentality again.

dead pool: i think that just because we do not know what started "motion" in your case, doesnt necessitate a god being there. it simply means that we do not know what started it.


People who use God as an explanation for lack of one don't really believe.

Its more of a cop out.

As opposed to people who actually believe.

[I Bow 4 Che]

Well believing in god and believing there IS a god...are different. That's all I have left to say. One can believe in the morals and ideas that a "supposed" god made, but not actually believe there is one. Maybe, that didn't make sense. Give me a couple minutes I will explain it better.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 1:17 am on Sep. 1, 2002
Well believing in god and believing there IS a god...are different. That's all I have left to say. One can believe in the morals and ideas that a "supposed" god made, but not actually believe there is one. Maybe, that didn't make sense. Give me a couple minutes I will explain it better.




actually what you said was the same thing.

I think you mean having morals that are religous based doesn't mean you need to believe in God

which I agree with

but I personally believe in God

[I Bow 4 Che]

Well you just said what I said LL...because believeing in the morals that are written by a "supposed" god, is beleiving in morals that are religon based, the reason i said "supposed" was because they don't really believe that god wrote/made them

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 1:23 am on Sep. 1, 2002
Well you just said what I said LL...because believeing in the morals that are written by a "supposed" god, is beleiving in morals that are religon based, the reason i said "supposed" was because they don't really believe that god wrote/made them

Not all religions worship a God but alot have the same morals.

Most constitute respect for other humans.

So a person who is religous doesn't have to worship or believe a God wrote the morals either.

I said religous based not God based

[I Bow 4 Che]

touche

[deadpool 52]

All in all such an argument is like pointing to the moon.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone ever read Dante's Inferno? Or for that matter any other part of the divine comedy (purgatorio or paradiso)?

[I Bow 4 Che]

^Yes I have read it...pretty uh..."interesting" for lack of a better word