Has Cuba under Castro ever used torture?

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Is there any solid evidence that Cuba uses/has used torture?

[BIG BROTHER]

Well, as far as I know they are testimonies about torture in Cuba. I don't know if that's considered "strong evidence", though.

I personally think it would be naive to think it hasn't. At its best Cuba at least has probably done torture to counter-revolutionary.

[gla22]

I'm sure it has,but probably on a lesser extent than the U.S.

[Marc Gossett]

Because of the regime's repressive role, it would be unwise to ignore all of the allegations by the deranged Miami exile community. Of course it is cynical of the United States Government to denounce any such brutalities as it certainly has enough guilt in this area alone- and on Cuban soil alone! Cuba is a subject which deserves special care, with attention given to the consequences of isolation and Stalinism for a very deformed worker's state which is currently in transition to state capitalism or U.S. statehood.

[Andres Marcos]

Cuba is a subject which deserves special care, with attention given to the consequences of isolation and Stalinism for a very deformed worker's state which is currently in transition to state capitalism or U.S. statehood.

Jeeesus, what is it with Trots and calling any state they dont like "Stalinist". Raven was right, ARML use "Trotskyite" too liberally, but I can say the same about Trots using "Stalinist" FOR ALL LEADERS from Tito to Gorbachev(yes...seriously the Militant calls Gorby and Tito Stalinists). Cuba is Castroite or Khruschev-Brezhnevite, not "Stalinist".

As for the topic, I come from the Show Me State, if no one can prove torture existed in cuba, then the burden of proof is on the accuser.

[razboz]

seems pretty naive to think they havent. most states throughout the world use torutre of one sort or another including, but not limited to, most countries in the european union, most arab countries, most of africa, most of asia and the americas including cuba. torture is one of the most used tools employed by state organs of control like counter-isurgency groups, the police and intelligence services. the simple coercitive nature of torture lends itself well to the purposes of the governemnt to control "criminals" and members of society that fail to conform to the order that the state requires, as well as to infrom the state organs of control of the activites of associates.

cuba under castro remains a state and requires that its citizens remain confined by the rules of the state, written and unwritten. as such one can easily assume that some of the allegations of torutre directed at cuba (and there are many) are probably partially true. either way finding "evidence" of torture is difficult at best because there could be any number of reasons why somone might accuse a government of torutre (falsely) and very strong incentives for such a government to deny such accusations. "proof" usually only comes when the government responsible for torture is overthrown and "evidence" begins to surface. i use quotation marks because even then, the vested interest of all parties involved is so powerful it is difficult to deermine the truth, for a given value of "truth".

[bobroberts]

There are many claims of torture from ex-prisoners in the exile community.

In general, human rights organizations have a problem with the generally horrible prison conditions, with accusations of violent reprisals against prisoners who complain of abuse or beatdowns by the guards. They also have a problem with their refusal to allow organizations like themselves to monitor the prison conditions. I haven't seen them cite any actual accounts, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are out there.

[Magdalen]

I don't think the reactionary members of the Cuban exile community can be relied upon for reliable testimony.

It's not impossible that some acts of torture have taken place since the Revolution, but these acts have certainly been few and far between compared to imperialist countries, and none of them have been blessed by senior members of the Cuban government.

Of course, the vast majority of torture committed in Cuba takes place at one location, the illegal US base at Guantanamo Bay.

[Wiesty]

I'm not exactly sure about post revolution Cuba, but I'm pretty sure that during the revolution torture and execution went on at La Cabana. (some people will totally deny this because of course..."communists don't torture", but whatever, its revolution)

[Raoul]

Do summary executions constitute torture? If so Cuba has indeed used torture. With the limited media coverage in the country it is very difficult to know if Cuba is waterboarding, pulling fingernail out with pliers, electrocuting genetailia or using fine Cuban cigars to burn the arms and legs of dissidents. Who knows? With the firewall that the Bush adminstration has put up it is very hard to establish what is really occuring there. I only know that there has long been a very extensive network of neighbors listening in on private phone conversations of Cuban citizens calling to relatives in the US. The most current changes are encouraging. Additional changes in the current US administration could only mean positive opportunities for the common Cuban citizen.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No. Torture has never been used by the Cuban Revolution. In fact, torture has been explicitly rejected going all the way back to the struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains.

The 26 July Movement was renowned in Cuba for treating medically and then releasing all prisoners it took from the forces of repression during the war. This was in stark contrast to the tactics of the butcher Batista, whose henchmen were notable for such acts as digging prisoners eyeballs out with spoons while they were still alive.

The policy continues up until today. Remember that the mercenaries captured at the Bay of Pigs were returned to their masters in the U.S. in exchange for medicine.

There are no credible reports of anyone ever being tortured in revolutionary Cuba.

[Wiesty]

This was in stark contrast to the tactics of the butcher Batista, whose henchmen were notable for such acts as digging prisoners eyeballs out with spoons while they were still alive.


Citation please? Not that i dont believe you, it just sounds a little leftist distorted, as may cubans being tortured during the revolution sound a little right wing distorted.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There's info on that all over. Fidel: A Critical Portrait talks about it if I recall correctly. Melba Hernandez has talked about her brother being tortured and murdered in front of her a few times. Any account of Batista's reaction to the account on Moncada usually mentions the brutal torture that was carried out against captured members of the group. Do some research.

[Charliesoo]

No, I do not believe it has.

As a fellow comrade pointed out, the July 26th movement was notorious for their compassion. The only executions were of traitors, deserters (same thing - basically), and spies. Many captured soldiers were set free after their weapons were confiscated.

[Wiesty]

As well as the execution of numerous Batista regime workers that failed to flee. Was only about 50-100 i believe, but nonetheless, cant go ignored.

[Magdalen]

In 1957, after suppressing the 5th September uprising in Cienfuegos, Batista bombed the city to the ground and had many of the rebels buried alive. (I was told this by a Cuban I met while in Cienfuegos. However, I'm sure I've read it elsewhere, if anyone could help me remember where I've read it I would be very appreciative)

I don't think anyone could accuse the Revolutionary Government of committing such brutal atrocities.

[Spartacist]

It would not only be naive to say the Cubans haven't used torture it would be stupid. Of course they have. You ask the question as if torture was, in and of itself bad. Torture in the service of The Revolution is not only good but necessary.

[ellipsis]

The testimonies of Cuban exiles cited in right wing hack Humberto Fontava seem pretty unlikely given the author's position. Their reasons for speaking out are pretty dubious.

[Sir Comradical]

Look up Huber Matos...

[Strummerism]

The United States would like you to believe that Cuba do indeed practice torture. Just don't mention extraordinary rendition to any American politician

[Sir Comradical]

The United States would like you to believe that Cuba do indeed practice torture. Just don't mention extraordinary rendition to any American politician

We'd be nieve to think that torture doesn't occur in Cuba, just look up 'Huber Matos' who claims that he was tortured in prison. His only crime was disagreeing with aspects of the revolution, plus Raul and Che didn't like him so it was also a personal vendetta. Let's be objective observers who are critical of all forms of power even the ones that lean towards the left. Don't get me wrong, i greatly admire the cuban revolution.

Having said that, it's important to tackle the big cases first and so the US has no right to criticize other states for locking up political dissidents and practicing torture.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Sorry, Huber Matos is not a reliable source.

The fact is that torture is not practiced by the Cuban Revolution as a matter of principle, and this has been the case since it first began.

".. I have always said you have to have a policy towards the populace and a policy towards your adversary. If you don't, you don't win. You can't kill innocent people, and you have to fight against the enemy's forces in combat. There's no other way to justify violence. That is my conception of war... When an enemy comes to respect and even admire their adversary, you've won a psychological victory. They admire you because you've managed to defeat them, because you've hit them hard yet at the same time respected them, because you haven't humiliated them, you haven't insulted them, and especially because you haven't murdered them. And the moment came when we clearly had the upper hand in that respect. Our enemy respected us. Because they knew how wars were usually waged and how merciless the victors usually were with the conquered army... And there was no torture. Because what we were clear about, in the struggle against that [Batista] regime, was that it tortured people and murdered people. I once said to those who accused us of violating human rights, 'I defy you to find a single case of extra-judiciary execution; I defy you to find a single case of torture... [That's been our policy] Since the beginning of the revolution, and even before; since we began the struggle at Moncada, or later, when landed in 1956. I remember that once, in the struggle against the bandidos, in the sixties, one of our commanders started to use certain methods of intimidation -- he threw prisoners into the pool, put some on board helicopters -- not really intending to throw them out, but certainly to intimidate them. I got wind of that and I went to Escambray immediately, where this had taken place. He got a severe, severe dressing-down. He never [used physical torture], but it was a kind of psychological torture -- whatever the case, it was unacceptable. In addition, a police or intelligence agency that tortures doesn't really make headway, it doesn't develop the methods that ours developed -- especially methods of infiltration, to seek out the truth... Infiltration functioned very well, but physical violence never did -- we simply never used it." - Fidel Castro, My Life, 2006.

[Sir Comradical]

Sorry, Huber Matos is not a reliable source.

The fact is that torture is not practiced by the Cuban Revolution as a matter of principle, and this has been the case since it first began.

".. I have always said you have to have a policy towards the populace and a policy towards your adversary. If you don't, you don't win. You can't kill innocent people, and you have to fight against the enemy's forces in combat. There's no other way to justify violence. That is my conception of war... When an enemy comes to respect and even admire their adversary, you've won a psychological victory. They admire you because you've managed to defeat them, because you've hit them hard yet at the same time respected them, because you haven't humiliated them, you haven't insulted them, and especially because you haven't murdered them. And the moment came when we clearly had the upper hand in that respect. Our enemy respected us. Because they knew how wars were usually waged and how merciless the victors usually were with the conquered army... And there was no torture. Because what we were clear about, in the struggle against that [Batista] regime, was that it tortured people and murdered people. I once said to those who accused us of violating human rights, 'I defy you to find a single case of extra-judiciary execution; I defy you to find a single case of torture... [That's been our policy] Since the beginning of the revolution, and even before; since we began the struggle at Moncada, or later, when landed in 1956. I remember that once, in the struggle against the bandidos, in the sixties, one of our commanders started to use certain methods of intimidation -- he threw prisoners into the pool, put some on board helicopters -- not really intending to throw them out, but certainly to intimidate them. I got wind of that and I went to Escambray immediately, where this had taken place. He got a severe, severe dressing-down. He never [used physical torture], but it was a kind of psychological torture -- whatever the case, it was unacceptable. In addition, a police or intelligence agency that tortures doesn't really make headway, it doesn't develop the methods that ours developed -- especially methods of infiltration, to seek out the truth... Infiltration functioned very well, but physical violence never did -- we simply never used it." - Fidel Castro, My Life, 2006.

Why is Huber Matos NOT a reliable source if he himself said that he was tortured? As revolutionary as the Cuban revolution was, we cannot just dismiss Matos' statements.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

For the same reason the rest of the gusanos in Miami aren't. Matos, along with people like Manuel Artime (who later lead the mercenary invasion at the Bay of Pigs), tried to organize counterrevolution with the help of the CIA. Matos is a guy who publicly supports Luis Posada, "the Osama bin Laden of Latin America," who -- among his various terrorist exploits -- organized the bombing of the Air Cubana flight that left 73 people dead.

[Sir Comradical]

For the same reason the rest of the gusanos in Miami aren't. Matos, along with people like Manuel Artime (who later lead the mercenary invasion at the Bay of Pigs), tried to organize counterrevolution with the help of the CIA. Matos is a guy who publicly supports Luis Posada, "the Osama bin Laden of Latin America," who -- among his various terrorist exploits -- organized the bombing of the Air Cubana flight that left 73 people dead.

So are you saying that his claims are false, he may be lying?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

He's an avowed enemy of the Revolution and a known collaborator with the CIA and anti-Cuban terrorists. Why would you believe a thing he says about Cuba or its Revolution?

[manic expression]

So are you saying that his claims are false, he may be lying?

Yeah, that's what I would say. He's a classic example of a reactionary hack with an axe to grind.

[Sir Comradical]

He's an avowed enemy of the Revolution and a known collaborator with the CIA and anti-Cuban terrorists. Why would you believe a thing he says about Cuba or its Revolution?


Yeah, that's what I would say. He's a classic example of a reactionary hack with an axe to grind.

Ok fair enough. I believe you two.

[garytaylor605]

There is an entire room dedicated to the torture devices used in Cuba, upstairs at the Military museum in Havanna. It is quite gruesome, especially for males. I saw this in 1998 and again in 1999.
There's plenty of proof of torture, that the gov. is proud to display.

[TC]

There is no serious evidence or even allegations from serious sources of torture in Cuba and you know that given its anti-american stance, if there was *anything* to go on the bourgeois media would make everyone well aware of it and trump it up beyond all proportion.

I do not think its naive to assume there is little or no torture in Cuba and at least no policy of systematic torture the way the Americans and Israelis have policies from the top on torturing people.

Rather I think its illogical to assume that just because a lot of states (America, Israel, Egypt, Saudis, Singapore, etc) torture people the Cubans must do it as well.


Cuba does not have a police state the way the UK and Israel and many other western countries do. The population is as well armed as the police, there aren't cctv cameras everywhere, and people are not detained without charge indefinitely the way they are in America and the UK: in Cuba people don't just disappear without due process.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There is an entire room dedicated to the torture devices used in Cuba, upstairs at the Military museum in Havanna. It is quite gruesome, especially for males. I saw this in 1998 and again in 1999.
There's plenty of proof of torture, that the gov. is proud to display.

Bullshit.

There's a display of the torture devices used by Batista's henchmen. There's no display of torture devices used by the Revolution, since it has never used any.

As TC says, no one who is even remotely serious have even suggested that there's torture being carried out by the Revolution.

[manic expression]

There is an entire room dedicated to the torture devices used in Cuba, upstairs at the Military museum in Havanna. It is quite gruesome, especially for males. I saw this in 1998 and again in 1999.
There's plenty of proof of torture, that the gov. is proud to display.

Yeah, totally, when I was in the German History Museum in Berlin, I saw tons of different Nazi uniforms...I can't believe the German military still wears that stuff. :rolleyes:

[RaiseYourVoice]

Yeah, totally, when I was in the German History Museum in Berlin, I saw tons of different Nazi uniforms...I can't believe the German military still wears that stuff. :rolleyes:
Bad example! Our army took over many symbols, are still celebrating the "tradition of the German army" and began with strong personal connections to the Wehrmacht.

[manic expression]

Bad example! Our army took over many symbols, are still celebrating the "tradition of the German army" and began with strong personal connections to the Wehrmacht.

My point was that they no longer use the uniforms seen in Nuremburg. Yes, I am well aware of how "denazification" was a joke in West Germany (many Gestapo agents were re-hired into the West German police force), but the point is that Nazi imagery mostly went out the window. Hell, we both know how right-wing the state is in Bavaria, but we also both know that it's no longer fascist, just the tool of the CSU.

Could I use another example? Yeah, sure, but it wasn't all that bad.

[Sir Comradical]

Bullshit.

There's a display of the torture devices used by Batista's henchmen. There's no display of torture devices used by the Revolution, since it has never used any.

As TC says, no one who is even remotely serious have even suggested that there's torture being carried out by the Revolution.

Yeh, i was just about to say the same thing (regarding batista)

[Led Zeppelin]

For the same reason the rest of the gusanos in Miami aren't. Matos, along with people like Manuel Artime (who later lead the mercenary invasion at the Bay of Pigs), tried to organize counterrevolution with the help of the CIA. Matos is a guy who publicly supports Luis Posada, "the Osama bin Laden of Latin America," who -- among his various terrorist exploits -- organized the bombing of the Air Cubana flight that left 73 people dead.

I wish he was tortured.

[Joe Hill's Ghost]

Did he use torture? Well he jailed gay people...for being gay, so torture is certainly possible.