Belarus and Alexander Lukashenko

[3A CCCP]

During the course of the last week or so we have witnessed a few list members attack a book review on Belarus and President Lukashenko - WITHOUT READING THE BOOK!

The same people denounced my Soviet Belarus yahoo discussion/news forum as a “propaganda site” - WITHOUT EVER HAVING VISITED THE GROUP!

In addition, my threads on topics unrelated to contemporary Belarus have been getting off-topic, anti-Belarus posts by this bunch in an obvious attempt at harassment and provocation by disrupting the discussion on the aforementioned threads.

Due to the above, I am opening this thread dedicated to discussing Belarus, President Lukashenko, and the Byelorussian government and policies.

I have no problem discussing any issue regarding Belarus as long as the person posting formulates his position in his own words. Posting links to a “laundry list” of news articles from the bourgeois western press and then asking something like, “OK, how do you respond to this?” is a typical tactic of a provocateur and will not cut it.

If someone wants me to take my time going looking through decade old archives in order to answer these quotes (more likely misquotes and skewed reports in most cases), then they should put their time into the written formulation of the issue they are concerned about.
3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[3A CCCP]

A Western Leftist's View of Belarus

October 11, 2007
A Model Social State (http://gowans.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/a-model-social-state/)
Filed under: Belarus (http://wordpress.com/tag/belarus/) — gowans @ 10:34 pm
By Stephen Gowans

As he stepped off his plane at the Minsk airport two summers ago to begin a two-day visit to Belarus, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez pointed to a connection between his country and that of his host, President Alexander Lukashenko. “Belarus,” he declared, “is a model of a social state, which we are also building.” (1) That Chavez’s model state exists in an infrequently remarked upon corner of Europe may be a surprise to most admirers of the Bolivarian Revolution.

Called Europe’s last dictator by Condoleezza Rice and a “brother in arms” by Chavez (2), Lukashenko oversees over a “socially-oriented market economy” in which 80 percent of the enterprises are state-owned and collective farms still feed the country.

He has “presided over a continual increase in real wages for several years…cut the (value added tax), brought down inflation, halved the number of people in poverty”…and created “the fairest distribution of incomes of any country in the region.” (3)

He has done “what the conventional wisdom in the West says is not possible: maintaining a state run economy with one of the strongest growth rates in Europe, generating increases in wages and pensions, boosting productivity and minimizing the disparities in wealth that have destabilized so many of the former Soviet republics in their transition to market economies.” (4)

What may be equally surprising to Chavez admirers is that Lukashenko has done all this by “steadily turn(ing) Belarus into a miniature version of the Soviet Union, with a state-run economy.” (5)

The only deputy of the Belarusian Soviet Socialist Republic to vote against the dissolution of the USSR in 1991, Lukashenko talks fondly of the Soviet Union — “my country,” he called it in 2005 before the UN General Assembly. (6) Statues of Lenin and busts of Stalin — some newly erected — can still be found in Belarus.

This hardly sits well with state officials in the West who accuse Lukashenko of stealing elections and smothering democracy – the usual charge leveled against leaders who haven’t signed on to the project of fattening the bottom lines of Western corporations and investment banks at the expense of their own people. Lukashenko wins elections by landslides because he is widely popular, and he’s widely popular because he puts the interests of Belarus’ people first.

So Washington and London fund subversion projects under the guise of promoting democracy, funneling millions of dollars to youth groups, anti-Lukashenko media and opposition parties to bring down the government. The New York Times remarked that in the last presidential election the US and British-backed opposition “seemed not to be running an election campaign, as much as they (were) trying to organize an uprising.” (7)

The opposition failed miserably, both at the polls and in the streets.

Check out Stewart Parker’s new book, The Last Soviet Republic: Alexander Lukashenko’s Belarus (http://www.belarussolidaritycampaign.co.uk/ (http://www.belarussolidaritycampaign.co.uk/)) as well as “Belarus struggles to defend workers’ interests” in the latest issue of Proletarian http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=proletarian&subName=display&art=338 (http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=proletarian&subName=display&art=338).
Both go a long way to setting the record straight on the hold-out Soviet republic Chavez calls a model of a social state.
1. New York Times, July 24, 2006
2. Financial Times, August 2, 2007.
3. Times Online, March 10, 2006.
4. Los Angeles Times, March 19, 2006.
5. New York Times, January 1, 2006.
6. Lukashenko address to the 60th Session of the General Assembly of the United Nations, September 15, 2005.
7. New York Times, January 1, 2006.

[3A CCCP]

Belarus - Truly the Last Soviet Republic!

Most people in the West are not aware that prior to the Great October in 1917 Byelorussia had no strong nationalistic sentiment such as could be found in other areas of the former Russian Empire. If you asked a Byelorussian of that time period who he/she was the typical answer would be, “Мы русские, но говорим по-простому. / We are Russian, but speak simply.”

The Byelorussian national identity was forged during the 1920s through the 1930s and its completion was realized during the Great Patriotic War with the Partisan Resistance as its greatest achievement and sacrifice.

The Byelorussian national identity is the only truly Soviet national identity of all the 15 (16 up until 1956) union republics. The Byelorussian people were, and for the most part remain, Soviet people. Attempts since 1992 to introduce a mythical Byelorussian “nationalism” from some imagined past era are bogus and pathetic.

After the counter-revolution in the Soviet Union in 1991 I remember conversations around the table with my uncle on the kolkhoz in Slootsk and my cousins in Minsk. Of the many people I spoke with I don’t recall anyone who supported the dissolution of the USSR or supported Shushkevich’s pro-western government.

From 1992 to 1994 the Byelorussian puppet regime began to dismantle the Socialist system and introduce privatization. Along with the economic system they targeted all Soviet symbolism. Monuments came down, the flag of the Byelorussian SSR was replaced with a “Lithuanian” flag that didn’t have any meaning for anyone. The Byelorussian Soviet Coat of Arms was replaced with a ridiculous “knight” waving a sword around. Soviet history books were beginning to be switched for bourgeois western versions of history.

By 1994 the bourgeois puppet government of the West felt secure enough to hold actual presidential elections to legitimatize their claim to power. To their shock and to the consternation of their Western masters, the government was voted out by a landslide. Backed by the Communist Party of Belarus and their arm in the countryside, the Agrarian Party, Alexander Gregoriyevich Lukashenko won by a landslide vote.

Due to the conflicted composition of the Byelorussian Parliament, President Lukashenko was not able to immediately halt the changes made by the bourgeois government. However, privatization was soon halted and strictly regulated. Heavy industry and industries related to national security remained or reverted to State ownership and control. Most farms remained collective (75% today).

Soviet symbolism was restored including the State Flag and Coat of Arms and today they are evident everywhere. (I take umbrage with those who believe that Soviet symbolism is irrelevant. Symbolism is important to any people, but especially so to the psyche of the Eastern Slavs.)

Regardless of what leftists in the West think they know about President Lukashenko, the Byelorussian people know him better. In March of 2006 Alexander Gregoriyevich was elected for his third five year term by 83% of the Byelorussian people.

The Byelorussian government’s program of “The State for the People” is not a Communist program but, while mixed, it is more Socialist than anything else. And, the State policy is by no means “imperialist” as has been suggested on this list.

While it may not meet the “standards” of the “arm chair” Communist philosophers in the West, the Byelorussian social model works, it cares for the Byelorussian workers and farmers, and the Byelorussian people support it by a vast majority.

The Communist Party of Belarus voted last year to continue support for the government and President Lukashenko. Pragmatism does not mean selling out the working class. It means doing the best one can for the workers and farmers given the circumstances. It means surviving in order to keep up the fight against globalism and NATO.

LONG LIVE BELARUS - THE LAST SOVIET REPUBLIC!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[3A CCCP]

Comrades!

After 24 hours I would have expected the "inquisitors" to have taken advantage of my creation of this thread. Apparently, they prefer to employ harrassment and provocation.

In any case, let's get the ball rolling for them! Before I realized what they were doing I answered the following question from Sam_b:

Originally Posted by Sam_b http://img.revleft.com/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1137532#post1137532)
quote by President Lukashenko:
The history of Germany is a copy of the history of Belarus. Germany was raised from the ruins thanks to firm authority, and not everything connected with that well known figure, Adolf Hitler, was bad. German order evolved over the centuries and under Hitler it attained its peak.
Originally Posted by Sam_b
Praytell, how can a quote stating that "under Hitler it (Germany) attained its peak" be taken out of context?

My response was:
Unfortunately, the media organization that you quote (BBC) and other western news media such as Reuters, the Associated Press, etc. never seem to cite their sources and have a history of distorting anything that President Lukashenko says.

The BBC's report of the alleged "praising of Hitler" by President Lukashenko in a 1995 interview to the German newspaper "Handelsblatt" is a perfect example of this practice. The actual interview was on the subject of the Byelorussian economy, and contained absolutely NO reference at all to Hitler.

The German correspondent who carried out the interview, Dr. Markus Zeiner, told the British Helsinki Human Right Group (BHHRG), "a tape of the interview had been quoted out of context and with the sequence of comments altered by the Russian media." (The BHHRG reported on this in their article "Belarus-Pariah or Victim?", 1997.)

Dr. Zeiner wrote to the Russian media publication and broadcasters who had used these "quotes" to inform them of their non-factual base, but never received a reply. The source of this spread of mis-information is attributed to an interview with the Russsian NTV network in order to divert attention away from a non-existent comment in the Handelsblatt, to erroneous Russian reporting.

President Lukashenko himself was shocked when told how he was quoted. In a later interview with another German newspaper, "Der Spiegel," the President said, "If I really had said that I would have been driven out of my post the next day!"

The western bourgeois media, owned and controlled by the rich, has been conducting a campaign of misquotes, ommissions, and outright lies against President Lukashenko since the U.S. and E.U. realized that they were not going to be allowed to step in, buy out the country, and turn the Byelorussian people into their shoeshine boys and lackies. At the time of this "Hitler" quote the gangster Yeltsin regime was pissed off at President Lukashenko and the Russian media was also out to get him along with the West.

This is not just a "misquote," but a conscious and deliberate alteration of an interview tape with the intent to discredit and embarass President Lukashenko!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Dimentio]

Well, I guess that Venezuela simply is considered more sexy.

Lukashenko is a semi-dictator at least - maybe a popular and benevolent dictator, but nevertheless a semi-dictator. Chàvez has up until now acted as a democrat.

Given that, I still think the Byelorussian economic model is worth investigating, to see why high productivity is possible while maintaining what in reality is a command economy.

For example, how have Belarus managed to avoid shortages?

Here's a fun article by the way.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/ECAEXT/BELARUSEXTN/0,,contentMDK:20726090~pagePK:141137~piPK:141127~t heSitePK:328431,00.html

First, the World Bank affirms that Belarus has a strong economy, then they lambast them for not following the same failed policies as the rest of CIS.

[Hyacinth]

This is not just a "misquote," but a conscious and deliberate alteration of an interview tape with the intent to discredit and embarass President Lukashenko!
This doesn’t surprise me in the least. I have, sometimes painfully, learned over the years that the Western media, despite claims to the contrary, is far from objective.

One thing is clear, though, we should be very sceptical of claims of authoritarianism against the Belorussian regime coming from the Western press. Most of the left don’t take similar claims regarding Venezuela seriously, or at least without doubt, we should grant the same privilege to Belarus.

[3A CCCP]

[quote=Serpent;1146222] Lukashenko is a semi-dictator at least - maybe a popular and benevolent dictator, but nevertheless a semi-dictator. Chàvez has up until now acted as a democrat.

Comrade:

How do you define "semi-dictator?" Either Alexander Grigoriyevich is a dictator or he is not! If you consider him a dictator I would like to know based on what grounds?

- President Lukashenko was elected by landslide votes in three presidential elections. In the last one 90% of the electorate participated and gave him 83% of the vote. A dictator usually doesn't bother with elections.

- Contrary to popular belief President Lukashenko doesn't just run around barking orders and getting whatever he wants. Legislation has to go through an approval procedure. When he wanted to reinstate the Soviet Flag and Coat of Arms he put it to the people to decide in the form of a referendum (which was approved by around 75% of the voters). The President likes referendums because they involve the direct participation of the Byelorussian people. Dictators usually don't bother with referendums or care about legislative approval.

- President Chavez doesn't consider him a dictator and was quite impressed with Belarus on his two visits there. Since then Belarus and Venezuela have become close allies with tight economic and growing military cooperation.

- The Western press calls him a dictator because he told the West to go "shove it" 14 years ago when they tried to buy him off and turn Belarus into another colony in Eastern Europe.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Marsella]

Personally, I'm down with a bullet to Lukashenko's head.

Bye bye Mr President! :lol:

[3A CCCP]

Personally, I'm down with a bullet to Lukashenko's head.

Bye bye Mr President! :lol:

Why do you feel that way? What has President Lukashenko done to deserve a bullet in the head?

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Marsella]

Personally, its the moustache.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Lukashenko_NAM_meeting.jpg

It reminds me of a former unnamed fuck up.

[3A CCCP]

Personally, its the moustache.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Lukashenko_NAM_meeting.jpg

It reminds me of a former unnamed fuck up.

We are trying to have a serious thread that can answer list members questions about Belarus and correct misconceptions created by the Western bourgeois press. If you don't have anything concrete to offer or a legitimate question to ask, I would request that you refrain from wasting space with ludicrous posts.

Thanks!

3A CCCP
Mikhail

[apathy maybe]

Actually the point about the moustache is a good one. It looks ugly. Not to mention he's bald, which isn't attractive on him at all.

So yeah, over all, his lack of attractiveness, along with the general police state thing he's got running, means he does deserve a bullet to the head.


- President Lukashenko was elected by landslide votes in three presidential elections. In the last one 90% of the electorate participated and gave him 83% of the vote. A dictator usually doesn't bother with elections.
You know that the Burmese government just got "92.4 per cent voted yes to the changes on a turnout of 99 per cent of voters"1 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/15/2246227.htm)?

Saddam Hussain regularly used to get over 90% approval ratings too.

I suspect MR Lukashenko has been thinking about what his hero, Mr Stalin, said a lot, it isn't who votes that counts, but who counts the votes.

Think on that a moment.

[#FF0000]

Their representative body is made up mostly of people who are not aligned with any political party, but with various worker and other groups. That's nice to see. The GDP's also been rising.

But, still. International observers renounced the 2004 election for being undemocratic when only pro-Lukashenko candidates won, while opposition politicians were disqualified over technicalities. There's also the, ah, questionable human rights record.

Other than that, I don't know much about Belarus. What's your response to these criticisms, Mikhail?

[3A CCCP]

Their representative body is made up mostly of people who are not aligned with any political party, but with various worker and other groups. That's nice to see. The GDP's also been rising.

But, still. International observers renounced the 2004 election for being undemocratic when only pro-Lukashenko candidates won, while opposition politicians were disqualified over technicalities. There's also the, ah, questionable human rights record.

Other than that, I don't know much about Belarus. What's your response to these criticisms, Mikhail?

Comrade:

These are excellent questions that I was hoping someone would bring up. I have to go to work now, but this evening I will try to answer them in depth.

Until I can get back to your post, it would be helpful if you can pinpoint some specific human rights questions that you would like answered. This is a broad category and let's try to cover it with specific questions and answers in order to bring a more clear picture to the list membership.

Thanks!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[3A CCCP]

Actually the point about the moustache is a good one. It looks ugly. Not to mention he's bald, which isn't attractive on him at all.

So yeah, over all, his lack of attractiveness, along with the general police state thing he's got running, means he does deserve a bullet to the head.


You know that the Burmese government just got "92.4 per cent voted yes to the changes on a turnout of 99 per cent of voters"1 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/15/2246227.htm)?

Saddam Hussain regularly used to get over 90% approval ratings too.

I suspect MR Lukashenko has been thinking about what his hero, Mr Stalin, said a lot, it isn't who votes that counts, but who counts the votes.

Think on that a moment.

Dear Sir:

We can get back to you this evening, also.

3A CCCP
Mikhail

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Hmm, I used to be generally ambivalent towards Belarus, but now I am leaning more towards support.

Of course Belarus is not perfect, but neither is Venezuela. And Lukashenko's regime may not be democratic, but I see no reason to believe that it is any less in accordance with the people's will than your average Western liberal "democracy."

[YSR]

Belarusia is a terrifying dictatorship run by one man.

My friend is a refugee, as well as an anti-capitalist, and tells me horror stories all the time.

Put Lukashenko up against the wall with the other reactionaries, as far as I'm concerned.

[#FF0000]

Here are some alleged human rights violations:

- Harassment of non-government organizations, such as the United Union of Poles, a group representing the ethnic Poles of Belarus

- Rather blatant antisemitism, with incidents such as the recent digging up of historical Jewish graves in order to build a sports stadium.

- Lukashenko also praised Hitler in an interview, stating:
The history of Germany is a copy of the history of Belarus. Germany was raised from the ruins thanks to firm authority, and not everything connected with that well known figure, Adolf Hitler, was bad. German order evolved over the centuries and under Hitler it attained its peak.

Even worse, one of Lukashenko's personal aides, Eduard Skobelev, has published a number of antisemetic books and articles, and is a rampant antisemite, advocating the use of guns to solve "the Jewish problem" in 1990, while he held the title of "Honored Figure Of Culture" in Belarus.

- There have been accusations of Lukashenko using Neo-Nazi thugs to intimidate the opposition during general elections.

- Rampant censorship. The Belarus government must approve all literature coming into the country.

- Almost non-existent press freedoms.

- The Belarus regularly detains political prisoners, including two activists and a journalist who were detained in 2005 and had not been heard from since.

Hardly sounds like a worker's paradise. I'm interested in hearing how this can all be explained away.

[Zurdito]

Of course Belarus is not perfect, but neither is Venezuela. And Lukashenko's regime may not be democratic, but I see no reason to believe that it is any less in accordance with the people's will than your average Western liberal "democracy."

so due to Belarus' govrnment being no less democratic than a liberal democracy, you decided to support it?

[Sam_b]

After 24 hours I would have expected the "inquisitors" to have taken advantage of my creation of this thread. Apparently, they prefer to employ harrassment and provocation.

I apologise for not spending every waking minute on the internet. And i'm loving this 'harassment' thing, when all you've done is slander people with questions about the nature of the Belarussian state as 'trots' follonig a 'political agenda'. An agenda! On an internet forum! WHOAH!

Fair enough, for the second time you've provided an answer to the Hitler quote. However, for about a week now you've ignored my other questions. So i'll post them again, even though I fail to see why you've not been able to answer them in the original post:




I regard [Yugoslav leader Slobodan] Milosevic as a legally elected president... He was elected by his people. It is a friendly state. And if Milosevic needs help and support, we will always give him this support. But I don't think that it will go that far. The West has declared many people criminal, all those who disagreed with it were declared criminals by democracy. So were we.


What do you make of this?

http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp...D=4&FileID=300 (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp?LanguageID=1&FileCategory=4&ZoneID=4&FileID=300) - And will you respond to the allegations made that the government was responsible for intimidation which led to the cancelling of the Pride event?

Thanks.

[3A CCCP]

http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp...D=4&FileID=300 (http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp...D=4&FileID=300) - And will you respond to the allegations made that the government was responsible for intimidation which led to the cancelling of the Pride event? Thanks.


MY REPLY:
The western media never mentions the fact that it was President Lukashenko who de-criminalized homosexuality in 1994, NOT the unelected, bourgeois, western puppet government that preceeded him. Shortly after his election in 1994 he took action on this issue.

I believe that one also should make a differentiation between State policy and the millenium old attitudes of the people. While Byelorussians are not mean spirited, their attitude toward homosexuality is typical of Eastern Slavic people in general.

In 2007 the International Gay and Lesbian Youth Group chose to hold its quarterly board meeting in Minsk, Belarus. Their report is enlightening, as they went to Belarus believing in the myth of an oppressive police state and came away saying their “fears were needless.”

This report highlights the overwhelming misinformation campaign being waged against the reality of the cultural and political situation in Belarus. Typically, as with international election observers this independent body has had its opinion of Belarus completely reversed by a first hand visit. Here are some excerpts from the report:

September 2007: International Gay Lesbian Youth Group Report on Belarus.

“We were prepared for grey streets, gloomy post-Soviet squares, cheerless people, little welfare and a regime being somehow visible at every corner of every street. But the Minsk we saw had nothing of that at all. The contrast seemed big. Prosperity, welfare, happy looking people walking on wide avenues surrounded by stylish classical buildings”.

“Whereas Lonely Planet writes about a public governmental repression of LGBT people, Belarusian activists talk about their country as being one of the most tolerant in post-Soviet space and a slow but nevertheless sensible change in regards to LGBT acceptance and visibility. There is no active repression of LGBT groups, the government even has opened dialogue with community representatives in the framework of an HIV/Aids project”.

Regarding your specific question, the government would not refuse to issue a permit to assemble based on sexual orientation. My understanding is that the application was not submitted in a timely manner and this was the reason for the refusal.

On the one hand, a western agitator would say that this is just an excuse not to allow the march.

On the other hand, perhaps the application was deliberately submitted late so it would be refused and an incident would ensue after the rejection.

Given the incredible amount of interference by the United States in the internal affairs of Belarus, the later scenario is highly plausible.

If one was sitting in the American embassy in Minsk concocting plans to cause public disorder and induce a “color coup,” the exploitation of homosexuals to ignite even minor public strife and embarrass the Byelorussian government might be an appealing option.

People who are unaware of the persistent and pervasive U.S. interference in Belarus will most likely reject this possibility. But, for the most part, these are the same people who seem so willing to accept every slanderous statement against Belarus in the bourgeois press.


3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Sam_b]

Thanks for your reply.

[3A CCCP]

I suspect MR Lukashenko has been thinking about what his hero, Mr Stalin, said a lot, it isn't who votes that counts, but who counts the votes. Think on that a moment.

MY REPLY:
The Byelorussian bourgeois western puppet regime counted the votes in 1994 when they finally decided to hold a presidential election to legitimatize their seizure of power after the counter-revolution in the Soviet Union!!!

Unfortunately for them Alexander Lukashenko received so many votes that miscounting the ballots wasn't even a viable option (70% turnout/76% to Alexander Grigoriyevich!).

The following two presidential elections respectively saw an 80% voter turnout/78% to President Lukashenko and 90% voter turnout/83% to President Lukashenko.

The U.S. and most of its E.U. allies denounced those two elections as rigged. These accusations strike me as rather strange when you consider that prior to each election the Western media conceded that President Lukashenko was immensely popular. Then, after he won both times they started ranting about the vote being rigged!

While election observers from the U.S. and most E.U. nations denounced the March 2006 presidential election as unfair and not valid, most observers deemed it within international, democratic norms.

Among others, observers from the following countries praised the election as fair and democratic: Belgium, Netherlands, Turkey, West Indies, Russia, Moldova, Kyrgystan, China, etc. The CPRF and other Communist Parties also praised the fairness of the elections.

Interestingly, the President of the International Christian Bridge Association, Michael Morgulis (USA) said, "The presidential election in Belarus is carried out in compliance with the international standards."

The veracity of the vote count was confirmed in the streets after the elections. The numbers that the opposition could muster for their post-election anti-Lukashenko demonstrations were pathetic.

The U.S. was counting on tens of thousands to take to the streets and create another "color coup." The Sunday night after the polls closed they got around 7,000-8,000 demonstrators into the street. By Tuesday the number had dwindled to a couple of thousand. By the end of the week the hundred or so agitators that remained were removed from October Square as a public nuisance (which they were!).

The lack of support for the "opposition" in Belarus is not surprising. There is no "grass roots" people's opposition to the government and President Lukashenko. The "Byelorussian opposition is a bogus, artificially created movement funded and directed by the U.S. embassy in Minsk.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[3A CCCP]

[quote=Rorschach;1146865]Here are some alleged human rights violations:
- Lukashenko also praised Hitler in an interview, stating:
Quote:
The history of Germany is a copy of the history of Belarus. Germany was raised from the ruins thanks to firm authority, and not everything connected with that well known figure, Adolf Hitler, was bad. German order evolved over the centuries and under Hitler it attained its peak.

MY REPLY:
This is addressed in depth in post #4 of this thread. This is not just a "misquote," but a conscious and deliberate alteration of an interview tape with the intent to discredit and embarass President Lukashenko!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[3A CCCP]

[quote=Rorschach;1146865]Here are some alleged human rights violations:
- Harassment of non-government organizations, such as the United Union of Poles, a group representing the ethnic Poles of Belarus

MY REPLY:
NGOs have been a blatant Western tool for attempting to undermine the former Soviet Republics. They have been exploited with great success by the United States in fomenting the "Orange coup" in Ukraine and the "Rose coup" in Georgia.

This is not lost on the Byelorussian government and President Lukashenko. NGOs were tolerated, but many subversive ones have been given their walking papers.

The Union of Poles is an organization of Byelorussian citizens that are of ethnic Polish origin. They have been involved in more than a few questionable incidents, the latest of which you can read about in the "Lenta" report of April 14, 2008 below. The Polish government, egged on by the United States, has been using the Union of Poles as a means to create incidents with Belarus over the past two years or so.

Given the Polish government's membership in NATO and its complicity in the proposed U.S. missile shield, I am more concerned over what possible subversive activities this group may be up to than their rights being "violated."

Lenta.ru, News, April 14, 2008, 2:16 am
BYELORUSSIAN BORDER GUARDS ARREST EIGHT POLES

The Border Service of Byelorussia detained eight citizens of Poland
for the violating the regulation of being in a border zone
advises RIA Novosti.

According to information of the press service of the Border
Committee of the Republic, along with the Poles two citizens of
Byelorussia were also arrested - the head of the Union of Poles in
Belarus, Angelica Boris, and a correspondent of the
newspaper "Polish Store." The name of the latter was not announced.

All of them were in Voronovskom region of Grodno Oblast in the
framework of a cultural program, not having permission for entry
into a Border Zone. "We are not against contact between people,
especially when having cultural ties. But, it is necessary to
respect and obey the law of any state," observed the Border
Committee.

According to the words of a source of the agency, at the present
time the head of the "Union of Poles in Belarus" and the
correspondent of "Polish Store" are awaiting administrative
sentence. The question of sanctions in regard to the eight Polish
citizens has still not been decided.

Lenta.ru: Новости:
14.04.2008, понедельник, 02:16:16

Белорусские пограничники задержали восьмерых поляков

Пограничная служба Белоруссии задержала восьмерых граждан Польши за нарушение режима пребывания в приграничной зоне, сообщает РИА Новости.

По информации пресс-службы пограничного комитета республики, вместе с поляками были задержаны двое граждан Белоруссии - глава Союза поляков в Белоруссии Анжелика Борис и корреспондент газеты "Польский магазин". Имя последнего не сообщается.

Все они находились в Вороновском районе Гродненской области в рамках культурной программы, не имея разрешения на нахождение в пограничной зоне. "Мы не против контактов людей, тем более налаживания культурных связей. Но закон любого государства нужно уважать и выполнять", - отметили в погранкомитете.

По словам собеседника агентства, в настоящее время глава Союза
поляков в Белоруссии и корреспондент "Польского магазина" ожидают
административного приговора. Вопрос о санкциях в отношении восьми
граждан Польши пока не решен.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[3A CCCP]

[quote=Rorschach;1146865]Here are some alleged human rights violations:
- Rather blatant antisemitism, with incidents such as the recent digging up of historical Jewish graves in order to build a sports stadium.

MY REPLY:
This sounds like a local governmental screw up and not part of any planned campaign of anti-Semitism. However, I would agree that this is not only scandalous, but absurd. I'd like to check into it further.

- Even worse, one of Lukashenko's personal aides, Eduard Skobelev, has published a number of antisemetic books and articles, and is a rampant antisemite, advocating the use of guns to solve "the Jewish problem" in 1990, while he held the title of "Honored Figure Of Culture" in Belarus.

MY REPLY:
I am not familiar with Skobelev, but any personal anti-Semetic beliefs he may have are not the beliefs of President Lukashenko, nor do they reflect on government policy.

- There have been accusations of Lukashenko using Neo-Nazi thugs to intimidate the opposition during general elections.

MY REPLY:
First of all, as you said, these are accusations. Secondly, who is making the accusations? The Byelorussian "opposition," the U.S., the O.S.C.E.?

MY VIEWS REGARDING ANTI-SEMITISM AND BELARUS
Unfortunately, anti-Semitism is widespread in Eastern Europe today, however it is notably rare in Belarus. Since the counter-revolution in the Soviet Union in 1991 skinheads and neo-Nazi fascists have propagated across Eastern Europe, including Belarus. The difference in Belarus is that the State actively fights these groups.

At the 60th meeting of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights Belarus and the Russian Federation tabled a joint resolution intended to draw international attention to the dangers of the resurgence and spread of neo-Nazism, neo-fascism, and aggressive nationalism. It was adopted by a majority vote, but opposed by the United States, the European Union nations, and Japan!!! What conclusions did the neo-Nazis and other such scum draw from this???

The 2001 report of the Stephen Roth Institute at the University of Tel Aviv noted that "anti-Semitism in Belarus has declined since Lukashenko was elected president." While it did make the usual references to President Lukashenko being a "dictator," it did state that "President Lukashenko was supportive of the Jewish community."

In 2006 the independent newspaper "Nasha Niva" ("Our Wheatfield") was shut down for repeatedly publishing anti-Semitic articles despite a number of warnings from the government. So, what happened? There was an international outcry that Belarus was stifling the independent media!!!

Belarus is damned by the West no matter what it does!

I share your concern regarding anti-Semitism. But, I will honestly tell you that Byelorussians in general are not anti-Semitic and have lived side by side with ethnic Jews for a few hundred years. I remember my grandfather (an ethnic Byelorussian) could speak Yiddish despite being a "goy."

I know this is a little off topic, but all this carried over to my neighborhood in East New York Brooklyn. We Byelorussians lived side by side with ethnic Jews from Eastern Europe (most from Byelorussia and Poland). They went to synagogue on Pennsylvania Avenue on Saturday, and we went to the Russian Orthodox Church on Glenmore Avenue on Sunday. But, we went to school together, played ball together, and got along fine.

Byelorussians are not mean spirited, nor are they bigots. You will find rotten apples in any group, but they are the exception among Byelorussians, not the rule!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Kwisatz Haderach]

so due to Belarus' govrnment being no less democratic than a liberal democracy, you decided to support it?
In its struggles against imperialistic liberal democratic regimes, yes.

[Cheung Mo]

Accusing Belarus of sending fascist thugs and paramilitaries after the opposition isn't even logical: Historically, it has been conservatives, liberals, and social democrats that use fascists to massacre workers.

[3A CCCP]

Sam_b wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukashenko
I regard [Yugoslav leader Slobodan] Milosevic as a legally elected president... He was elected by his people. It is a friendly state. And if Milosevic needs help and support, we will always give him this support. But I don't think that it will go that far. The West has declared many people criminal, all those who disagreed with it were declared criminals by democracy. So were we.

What do you make of this?

MY REPLY:
I am not trying to give you short shrift, but I've been working 10 hours shifts all week and have to go in tomorrow for a 16 hour overtime marathon! So, I'm just going to keep this quick and to the point.

As for supporting Milosovic, my understanding is that President Lukashenko saw this as a United States imperialist foray into traditionally 'Eastern' territory. The next U.S. military target could well have been Belarus given Washington's out and out hatred for Alexander Grigoriyevich and his resistance to U.S. corporations and big business.

It ought to be noted that Milosovic wanted Serbia to be an 'observer state' to the Belarus-Russia Union.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[irredeemable bastard]

Yeah allright, give some of his measures a critical welcome but don't bust a semen ball over it.

[joe_the_red]

Well, I must admit, that I had already had a positive opinion of Belarus and President Lukashenko, because I never believe the western media claims, but I will also admit that it was not based on factual information presented to me either. Now that I have actually read these accounts, I have information. I do subscribe to the SovietBelarus group, and I feel that there are good news articles posted which I get in my email. By the way, I am still interested in those DVDs on the Soviet Union in WW2. I can't remember which post exactly we were talking about it... but I am willing to pay the shipping costs. It might have to wait a couple of weeks, because I'm moving on May 31st, and it will likely be a little more expensive shipping (which I'm still willing to pay) because I'm going to Canada. But anyways, this is a great topic of discussion, and Belarus is on my list of nations I'm considering for immigration. I want to find a good spot that I can work from doing social work and projects to aid impoverished areas of the world. So far my options are Ireland, Belarus, Finland, Cuba, Argentina... not all from a standpoint of "which is most communist" but from a standpoint of culture. Anyways, getting back to the thread topic. Can you tell me a few topics on some modern policy... (1) How easy is it to get a visa to visit Belarus? (2) What are the requirements it would take for a foreigner to study at a university in Belarus? (3) What are requirements for immigration? (4) Are there news sources that can be subscribed over the internet based from Belarus? (5) What are President Lukashenko's comments/critiques of other figures of Marxism... such as Marx, Engels, Lenin, Castro, Che?........ These are just some peices of information I'm curious about. You don't have to consider them priority (especially with a work schedule like the one you described, I understand having long shifts). And if others have more important questions, you can address those first. Thanks for all the previous information, comrade. -Joe

[Sam_b]

They have been exploited with great success by the United States in fomenting the "Orange coup" in Ukraine and the "Rose coup" in Georgia.


The 'Orange Revolution' in Ukraine was not a coup in the slightest - the army and police sided with Yanukovych. However I will note and agree that there were shady goings on with funding by the US State Department etc.

[3A CCCP]

The 'Orange Revolution' in Ukraine was not a coup in the slightest - the army and police sided with Yanukovych. However I will note and agree that there were shady goings on with funding by the US State Department etc.

I should have used the word "revolution" since "coup" has a military/police connotation. I stand corrected!

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Dimentio]

Seems like Alexander Lukashenko now has been officially redeemed here. ^^

[3A CCCP]

Well, I must admit, that I had already had a positive opinion of Belarus and President Lukashenko, because I never believe the western media claims, but I will also admit that it was not based on factual information presented to me either. Now that I have actually read these accounts, I have information. I do subscribe to the SovietBelarus group, and I feel that there are good news articles posted which I get in my email. By the way, I am still interested in those DVDs on the Soviet Union in WW2. I can't remember which post exactly we were talking about it... but I am willing to pay the shipping costs. It might have to wait a couple of weeks, because I'm moving on May 31st, and it will likely be a little more expensive shipping (which I'm still willing to pay) because I'm going to Canada. But anyways, this is a great topic of discussion, and Belarus is on my list of nations I'm considering for immigration. I want to find a good spot that I can work from doing social work and projects to aid impoverished areas of the world. So far my options are Ireland, Belarus, Finland, Cuba, Argentina... not all from a standpoint of "which is most communist" but from a standpoint of culture. Anyways, getting back to the thread topic. Can you tell me a few topics on some modern policy... (1) How easy is it to get a visa to visit Belarus? (2) What are the requirements it would take for a foreigner to study at a university in Belarus? (3) What are requirements for immigration? (4) Are there news sources that can be subscribed over the internet based from Belarus? (5) What are President Lukashenko's comments/critiques of other figures of Marxism... such as Marx, Engels, Lenin, Castro, Che?........ These are just some peices of information I'm curious about. You don't have to consider them priority (especially with a work schedule like the one you described, I understand having long shifts). And if others have more important questions, you can address those first. Thanks for all the previous information, comrade. -Joe

1. I'm still trying to get someone with software to make some copies of "The Unknown War." Let me know when you are settled in and I will get you a set one way or the other. I think I have a third set and will send that to you if I can't get copies made. I have to dig around in the DVD box! (Shipping 7 DVDs will only cost a couple of bucks, even to Canada. That's not a big deal.)

2. A visitor's visa to Belarus should be no problem to obtain, especially if you are going to be applying from Canada. Since Washington shut down the Byelorussian Embassy and the U.S. Embassy in Minsk closed its doors last week you would have had problems applying from here.

3. Immigration status is easy to obtain for citizens of former Soviet Republics. I don't know how they view immigration from "belligerent" countries such as the U.S.
They had alot of trouble with subversive U.S. Evangelical Christians going to live there in the 1990s as did all the former Soviet Republics. The U.S. used the bible thumping fanatics as a fifth column in an attempt to infiltrate and divide society in the dissolved Soviet Union. It didn't really work. I remember the Russians used to call it the "Protestant Show." But, it left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Now, with the U.S. sanctions and other aggressive anti-Belarus actions who knows what Belarus is really thinking when it comes to accepting foreigners from here and other nations with similar attitudes?

4. In short, Communist history and the history of the Soviet Union and CPSU are taught in a positive light in the schools and respected in public. Statues of comrades Lenin, Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, and others are evident. Castro is a Belarus ally along with Chavez.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail