America- land of who? - Give it back to the natives you moth

[Anonymous]

Yes, first you kill their villages, kill theyr primal sorce of food, destroy theyr culter, pt them in concentration camps and call it reserves, use them in war and then leave them! now you say america is yours?

I was watching the history channel the other day, and it appear a indian (i dont remember the name of his tribe but theres a movie about them) that was used by USA Army has a code men, sing his language has code, well he said that before the war they were beaten if they used theyr lenguage, because the americans said to them that english was bether and that nobody else sed that lenguage, so they beated every child they heard sypeaking theyr lenguage, only then they used them for war! Hypocrat? or just another American Bulshit!?

[pastradamus]

English man!

[I Bow 4 Che]

Yeah...I respect what you're saying but please edit before you post...I'm not one to speak but I'm not ^ that bad

[Anonymous]

I have never edited in my life, and i aint goig to start doing it now! :P

[Borincano]

The movie was the "Horse whisperers."

[American Kid]

Take your average citizen (Americano) and ask them if they're terribly proud of what happened to the Indians and they're probably going to say "no." I'm one of them. But there is nothing we can do about it now.

To me, it's just social darwinism. We came in, we were bigger, stronger, there was more of us and we killed them (most of them) and took their land. We ate them. That's just how it happened.

I'm not a idiot. I realize this was abhorant. But I've read your profile, anarchist. You're from Portugal. Weren't many of the early expeditions funded and followed out by Portugese? What is this, just another Portugese bullshit?

Again, the point is, there's nothing we can do about it. Holding this against us is asinine and pointless. And as far as us beating those little kids for using their language, I smell paraphrasing. They probably got wrapped on the knuckles with a ruler (which is, nonetheless, bad also) (as any catholic school alumni can tell you), but I seriously doubt they were taken out and beaten Kmer Rouge style.

Many American Indians faught in the war, and were proud to have. One of the flag raisers at Iwo Jima was an Indian. Let's not put words in people's mouths, anarchist.

And can you explain your goddamn self? Anarchy? Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? Do you think that's ever going to work, or are you people just going to be relegated to shaving your heads and storming WTO gatherings being humiliated by the local cops in front of national media? Seriously. Anarchy....

-AK

[Lardlad95]

When was the last time you saw a family of Native Americans at denny's?

When was the last time you saw two non related native americans just hangin out a bar?

See man America owes alot of people alot of things.

You owe te native Americans their Land.

You owe the mexican migrant workers more money.

And you owe black people their forty acres and a mule.


Now were the fuck is my forty acres of land and a mule... I mean it God damn it I want my mule and acres

[Anonymous]

Yes portugal explored half world! but today we old lands that are ours, we don have lands that we took frim anyone!
Now you americans steal lands from who you want and dont give it back! Timor was ours, we gave them independence, Brazil was ours we gave it away! ando with Angola, Mozambique, Macau, etc..

So maby that sentence is another american bulshit!!

[Xvall]

Take your average citizen (Americano) and ask them if they're terribly proud of what happened to the Indians and they're probably going to say "no." I'm one of them. But there is nothing we can do about it now.

Good, however. I'm sure that 90% of the people I question won't feel sorry about it, just like 90% of the people I questioned said killing afghan babies was a good idea.

I'm not a idiot. I realize this was abhorant. But I've read your profile, anarchist. You're from Portugal. Weren't many of the early expeditions funded and followed out by Portugese? What is this, just another Portugese bullshit?

Just because he's from portugal doesn't mean he likes his portugeese government. Besides, if you insist that the portugeese must take responsibility for things that they have funded; the same must go for the United States, and they must take responsibility for actions carries out by the governments in Chile, El Slavador, Columbia, Guatemala, etc.

And can you explain your goddamn self? Anarchy? Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? Do you think that's ever going to work, or are you people just going to be relegated to shaving your heads and storming WTO gatherings being humiliated by the local cops in front of national media?

What's wrong with the WTO gatherings? Do you think it was 'justifies' for the police to beat an unarmed person just because they didn't like what they were protesting against. It's okay to spray tear gas in people's eyes who were just sitting there? Shave their head? I know very few anarchist who shave their head.

[Valkyrie]

The movie was called Wind Talkers. The Tribe was Navaho.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-2.htm
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-4.htm

Drake, I was just reading an article about the proposal of monetary reparations to the descendents of slaves. It looks pretty good that compensation will be made, but the man who is spearheading the action favors a trust fund, rather than individual compensation,(which has been done in the past) which would be distributed according to need.

[Anonymous]

You anarchy, its difficult to say that you dont ihabit lands taken from others because you probably do, at least taken from original settlers. European countries gave back colonies but America's land taken was mainland and so is hard to regard as a colony.

[Socialmalfunction]

damn, no matter how you look at it it's a sad thing that happend to so many races that were already here before the americans decided to spread. oh the US would owe mexico more than just migrant worker fees... from california to texas belonged to mexico. so eh, who knows?

[Sasafrás]

I can't say much about the Navajos with the US Army; however, for the most part, you can pretty much blame the English (and various other Euro people) for the land being taken away from the Native Americans way back when, ha. :) I don't really think that we today can too much be held responsible for that, but I'm black, so I definitely can't since my ancestors didn't have shit anyway. And, this 40 acres and a mule (reparations) thing. I'm sorry, but I think it is so stupid. I've never really been a slave, so why should I get anything? I know they promised it to my ancestors, but still. And, it's not literally going to be 40 acres and a mule, it'll be money. Where will this money come from? Most likely, from taxpayers. Black people pay taxes; therefore, black people will in turn be paying themselves. It's so stupid. God, it makes me so mad. Gee Whiz! Let me stop now before I just go on and on..

..La Rain..

[Valkyrie]

Right, The land issue is a mess. The point of original origin of Mexican land would still go back to the Indiginous people before the Spanish colonization, same as all North Ameican, Central American and South American land. But it's the treaties that were broken specifically in the US that is an issue with Native Americans.

[Lardlad95]

no I don't think you follow...I WANT MY FUCKIN FORTY ACRES AND MY GOD DAMN MULE, I DON'T WANT REPREMATIONS, I DON'T WANT A HALF ASSED APOLOGY, I WANT MY FUCKIN MULE, AND MY FUCKIN ACRES...NOW THE US FUCKIN OWES ME

[Anonymous]

Take your average citizen (Americano) and ask them if they're terribly proud of what happened to the Indians and they're probably going to say "no." I'm one of them. But there is nothing we can do about it now.

What? the average citizen watches >Rintintin and shit like that and think all indians are bad and hopefully the cowboys were there to burn theyr villages to the ground and keep them away from the gold mines!

[Anonymous]

In most films ive seen the Indians were the bastards who wanted to raid white people's lands and kill everyone becasue they wanted to. The cowboys were the brave ones, much cleverer and stronger than the indians who went out to combat evil.


Sound a bit dodgy to anyone else?

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:29 am on Aug. 20, 2002
no I don't think you follow...I WANT MY FUCKIN FORTY ACRES AND MY GOD DAMN MULE, I DON'T WANT REPREMATIONS, I DON'T WANT A HALF ASSED APOLOGY, I WANT MY FUCKIN MULE, AND MY FUCKIN ACRES...NOW THE US FUCKIN OWES ME


What would you do with a mule?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 9:58 pm on Aug. 19, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:29 am on Aug. 20, 2002
no I don't think you follow...I WANT MY FUCKIN FORTY ACRES AND MY GOD DAMN MULE, I DON'T WANT REPREMATIONS, I DON'T WANT A HALF ASSED APOLOGY, I WANT MY FUCKIN MULE, AND MY FUCKIN ACRES...NOW THE US FUCKIN OWES ME


What would you do with a mule?



what wouldn't I do with a mule.

I'd call him Cappie...cuz mulesare stubborn, like capitalists.

Also I'd use it to plow my forty acres...then me and him would stay up real late and watch scary movies.....then i'd get him to kick people for no good reason.

[glamgirl610]

i thought the movie was called Windtalkers, maybe i'm wrong...but yeah i feel really bad for Indians...i think that white ppl shouldnt have been mean to them and just left them alone.

[glamgirl610]

I think after the civil war didnt they give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule??

[Anonymous]

Do you know how to arrange a sentance Glamlass?

[Anonymous]

"In most films ive seen the Indians were the bastards who wanted to raid white people's lands and kill everyone becasue they wanted to. The cowboys were the brave ones, much cleverer and stronger than the indians who went out to combat evil."

Correction: In ALL films!!! lol

And plus the Sioux are the worst in the movies, and all they did was fight for theyr lands! In films you see a caravan sorrounded by indians, but you never see indian villeges leveled by the american army!

[Anonymous]

Correction: In ALL films!!! lol

No, in one the Spanish were the bastards.

[glamgirl610]

stop making fun of my writing, and answer the question, and if u cant then shut up.

[glamgirl610]

stop making fun of my writing, and answer the question, and if u cant then shut up.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from glamgirl610 on 11:25 pm on Aug. 19, 2002
I think after the civil war didnt they give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule??


your bullshitting me right?

If they did don't you think black people would be in a better position in this country today?

They promised us the forty acres and a mule but they never gave it to us.

THey lied and screwed us over

[Anonymous]

"No, in one the Spanish were the bastards. "

lol i bet that movie wasnt a blockbuster just because the spanish were the bastards!

Glamgirl: why to repeat that sentence? we heard the first time!

[Anonymous]

Oh and glamgirl, i think what Lrdlad meaned was that nobody understended what you said! well i have an excuse for my bad english, i am Portuguese, and whats your excuse?

And what did you really meanted with that sentence?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: from glamgirl610 on 11:25 pm on Aug. 19, 2002
I think after the civil war didnt they give freed slaves 40 acres and a mule??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who released a mule and slaves during the civil war? and 40 acres to who? i dont get it!

[Anonymous]

All the Spanish were fat and had big moustaches although to be honest the indians did eventually decide to shoot Americans.


Sorry Glamlass, im just being pedantic because im annoyed.

[Lardlad95]

Glamgirl.....I'm guessing you know very little about black history...or american history for that matter

[Valkyrie]

Glamgirl is correct. 40,000 slaves were given the allotted land in Florida and South Carolina as stated in Special Field Order No. 15; however 3 months later the government rescinded and seized the land by orders of President Andrew Johnson.

(Edited by Paris at 12:02 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

[Anonymous]

And where does the mule enters in all this?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Paris on 11:59 pm on Aug. 19, 2002
Glamgirl is correct. 40,000 slaves were given the allotted land in Florida and South Carolina as stated in Special Field Order No. 15; however 3 months later the government rescinded and seized the land by orders of President Andrew Johnson.

(Edited by Paris at 12:02 am on Aug. 20, 2002)


(clears throat) no shit....no offense but obviously people. So in the end we weren't given our land.

Not to mention all the Jim Crow laws that screwed us over

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from the anarchist on 12:03 am on Aug. 20, 2002
And where does the mule enters in all this?



we were also promised a mule to help plow the land

[Anonymous]

lol with a mule? try a bull its much more easy! lol

and what was the mule name?

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from the anarchist on 12:08 am on Aug. 20, 2002
lol with a mule? try a bull its much more easy! lol

and what was the mule name?


well I mean we were freed slaves at the time, to them we were barley higher than the mules themselves so why would they give us a bull?

[Anonymous]

So you can make bullfights, atract people, make shows, and give a lot money to them! hey the romans did the same with us! (Lusitans!)

[Nateddi]

Hello GlamGirl,

I would refer you to my post about President Lincoln being a white supremacist. Here it is (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=22&topic=834&start=40)

If you have any questions please post them meaningfully in this forum and we will all try to answer them as best we can.

[Valkyrie]

Right Lardlad. I am not disputing that. Once more, It is worse to give land and then take it back. There are 8,000 Mohawk, (of which I am descended of) living in 650 housing units on the Mohawk reservation in upstate New York and 1,500 Onandago also part of the Six Nations Iroquois living on 7, 300 acres. Same fight comrade. We did not get our treatied lands either for which other countries would go to war over.



(Edited by Paris at 12:28 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

[samaniego]

lard lad lay of the Chris Rock stuff. Its only funny once.

[Anonymous]

lol, i dont like Chris Rock! i much prefer Will Smith! now theres a good comediant!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from samaniego on 12:47 am on Aug. 20, 2002
lard lad lay of the Chris Rock stuff. Its only funny once.


first of all...fuck you... :)

second what chris rock stuff

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from samaniego on 12:47 am on Aug. 20, 2002
lard lad lay of the Chris Rock stuff. Its only funny once.


not to mention I'm right the US promised my people those things.

I have a fuckin right to complain.

Any fuckin time a black person complains there has to be atleast one white person who wants to bring them down.

Why is that? Why are you always tellin us to forget slavery and that shit?

Ok also go tell Jewish people to forget the holocaust.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 7:53 pm on Aug. 18, 2002
Yes, first you kill their villages, kill theyr primal sorce of food, destroy theyr culter, pt them in concentration camps and call it reserves, use them in war and then leave them! now you say america is yours?

I was watching the history channel the other day, and it appear a indian (i dont remember the name of his tribe but theres a movie about them) that was used by USA Army has a code men, sing his language has code, well he said that before the war they were beaten if they used theyr lenguage, because the americans said to them that english was bether and that nobody else sed that lenguage, so they beated every child they heard sypeaking theyr lenguage, only then they used them for war! Hypocrat? or just another American Bulshit!?



"Yes, first you kill their villages, kill theyr primal sorce of food, destroy theyr culter, pt them in concentration camps and call it reserves, use them in war and then leave them! now you say america is yours?"

uh, yeah, we do, and it is. Two words: Manifest Destiny

I was watching the history channel the other day, and it appear a indian (i dont remember the name of his tribe but theres a movie about them) that was used by USA Army has a code men, sing his language has code, well he said that before the war they were beaten if they used theyr lenguage, because the americans said to them that english was bether and that nobody else sed that lenguage, so they beated every child they heard sypeaking theyr lenguage, only then they used them for war! Hypocrat? or just another American Bulshit!?"


Not bullshit, history. It is in the past. what happened happened. Hey, human history is full of invasion and conquest, as well as laying seige to the territory of others. Europeans are guilty of it, so are middle-easterners, and africans (did anyone here know hannibal was african?) Indians did it to each other. How about the fuckin' moores?

BTW, who the fuck determines whose land is whose? Indians came from asia over the land bridge that is now the bering strait. So, yes, decendents of asia were there 1st, so they can claim the whole 2 continents? I think not. The world belongs to all of us, and mother nature dictates the strongest will get the pick of their territory.

I hereby demand immediate reparations from the moores, as my life as a european decendent was forever altered by the occupation of my land. Oh, also, Germany owes me big for killing the jews. How many other great hollywood films would there be if we had that extra 6 million to pool movie moguls from? oh, and the romans, they killed my northern european barbarian ancestors.

So, yes, I believe reparations are in order for me, too.

Fuck all of you stupid leftist idiots and your worn-out reparation bullshit.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:18 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from the anarchist on 7:53 pm on Aug. 18, 2002
Yes, first you kill their villages, kill theyr primal sorce of food, destroy theyr culter, pt them in concentration camps and call it reserves, use them in war and then leave them! now you say america is yours?

I was watching the history channel the other day, and it appear a indian (i dont remember the name of his tribe but theres a movie about them) that was used by USA Army has a code men, sing his language has code, well he said that before the war they were beaten if they used theyr lenguage, because the americans said to them that english was bether and that nobody else sed that lenguage, so they beated every child they heard sypeaking theyr lenguage, only then they used them for war! Hypocrat? or just another American Bulshit!?



"Yes, first you kill their villages, kill theyr primal sorce of food, destroy theyr culter, pt them in concentration camps and call it reserves, use them in war and then leave them! now you say america is yours?"

uh, yeah, we do, and it is. Two words: Manifest Destiny

I was watching the history channel the other day, and it appear a indian (i dont remember the name of his tribe but theres a movie about them) that was used by USA Army has a code men, sing his language has code, well he said that before the war they were beaten if they used theyr lenguage, because the americans said to them that english was bether and that nobody else sed that lenguage, so they beated every child they heard sypeaking theyr lenguage, only then they used them for war! Hypocrat? or just another American Bulshit!?"


Not bullshit, history. It is in the past. what happened happened. Hey, human history is full of invasion and conquest, as well as laying seige to the territory of others. Europeans are guilty of it, so are middle-easterners, and africans (did anyone here know hannibal was african?) Indians did it to each other. How about the fuckin' moores?

BTW, who the fuck determines whose land is whose? Indians came from asia over the land bridge that is now the bering strait. So, yes, decendents of asia were there 1st, so they can claim the whole 2 continents? I think not. The world belongs to all of us, and mother nature dictates the strongest will get the pick of their territory.

I hereby demand immediate reparations from the moores, as my life as a european decendent was forever altered by the occupation of my land. Oh, also, Germany owes me big for killing the jews. How many other great hollywood films would there be if we had that extra 6 million to pool movie moguls from? oh, and the romans, they killed my northern european barbarian ancestors.

So, yes, I believe reparations are in order for me, too.

Fuck all of you stupid leftist idiots and your worn-out reparation bullshit.

no Ci fuck you and your bullshit right wing manifest destiny asshole point of veiw.

I'm not gonna forget the past ok? This country opressed my people for fucking years, we were treated like cattle.

I'm not forgetting that, why should I? Just put the past behind me?

Open your Goddamn eyes, your precious country is racist, and kills and enslaves millions of people.

This country nearly eradicated the Native American race.

This Country, opressed my people and continues to discriminate against them.

Don't give me that repiration bullshit ok...I don't believe in this country paying me for it being evil

No amount of money can make up for what this country did.

What they did is unforgivable. you hear me unforgivable.


Fuck you CI and get back to your Klan meeting, you'd think someone who's ancestors faced genocide just like mine would understand...but no.

Just don't let the grand high wizard find out your not pure white.

[Valkyrie]

hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Paris on 2:31 am on Aug. 20, 2002
hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!

hahaaa good one. paris...the following isn't for you

Oh yeah and when you white supremiscist cops pull us over for no goddamn reason we are getting...

no how about when I get followed in a store i'm getting back at yall by...

oh wait my people don't got shit but you fuckin klans men breathin on or damn backs.

I mean ya'll just waitin for a black man to mess up so you can go, "See honey I told you all them niggers are evil"


yet CI you want me to be cool with everything?

When I know that I am getting followed by a middle aged white woman in a store and its cuz she either thinks i'm handsome or is trying to see if she remembers me from somewhere, instead of her thinking I'm gonna pull a switch blade and steal all her money, then i'll be cool.

but as long as I get followed for no damn reason...fuck this country

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 2:38 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Paris on 2:31 am on Aug. 20, 2002
hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!


LOL, you think we care about that? We could give a fuck!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:36 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from Paris on 2:31 am on Aug. 20, 2002
hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!

hahaaa good one. paris...the following isn't for you

Oh yeah and when you white supremiscist cops pull us over for no goddamn reason we are getting...

no how about when I get followed in a store i'm getting back at yall by...

oh wait my people don't got shit but you fuckin klans men breathin on or damn backs.

I mean ya'll just waitin for a black man to mess up so you can go, "See honey I told you all them niggers are evil"


yet CI you want me to be cool with everything?

"When I know that I am getting followed by a middle aged white woman in a store and its cuz she either thinks i'm handsome or is trying to see if she remembers me from somewhere, instead of her thinking I'm gonna pull a switch blade and steal all her money, then i'll be cool."

but as long as I get followed for no damn reason...fuck this country

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 2:38 am on Aug. 20, 2002)


Dude, your trippin', I never said i was racist, nor did I imply such.

I value diversity.

[Valkyrie]

Hahaha! BILLIONS are being funnelled out of your precious cappie bank accounts and onto Indian Reservations, out of circulation forever and never to be touched by your grubby hands again. HAhahahaha!

[Anonymous]

They should have assimilated a long time ago. Now we have to waste taxpayer dollars on reservations so they can "preserve their cultural identity". God forbid they would want to use modern technology and have their land developed into something remotely productive. Reservations are just a fucking waste of money and land.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:15 am on Aug. 20, 2002)


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:18 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

[Valkyrie]

Hahaha! All their money siphoned off of YOU is tax free!! Hahahahaah!

[Anonymous]

Quote: from Paris on 10:26 am on Aug. 20, 2002
Hahaha! All their money siphoned off of YOU is tax free!! Hahahahaah!

That's bullshit too. They should pay their godamned taxes like the rest of us. Hell, without taxdollars they wouldn't even have those nice little reservations.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 11:50 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

[Anonymous]

PORTUGAL HAD TERRITORYS THAT COULD COVER AT LEAST HALF OF EUROPE! lets do has the cappies say, it was history, so lets get them back! yes lets reconquer them! we killed people to have them so they are ours by right! Yes cappies you make alot sense! Fucking stupids! Right wingers of shit!

[Anonymous]

You seem a little agitated.

[Moskitto]

While I don't necessarily agree with Dark Capitalist. His ideas actually take the piss out of Nazis a lot.

Nazis often bring up long algebraic and statical formulae to calculate how "I have to work for 3 months each year just to pay all the welfare that niggers get by sitting on their asses all the time." However, by what Dark Capitalist says, is that Native Americans get lots of money ploughed into their reservations, unlike blacks who only some of them get welfare and don't actually get it simply because they're black. Also by what Dark Capitalist says, Native Americans don't pay any tax. So this makes Nazis (as we allready knew) hipocrits because they don't say anything about Native Americans. Well, they can't really, They can't really make speaches about "Send the Amerindians Home" can they? Speaking of Nazis, wouldn't a good thing to post on a Nazi forum be.

"Come back to Europe, Stop going round the world mixing with the mud races, Everyone come back to Europe, This is our ancestral homeland, this is where we belong, it is the purest land, The white race was placed here because we're the master race and it's seperated from the mud races."

He He, Nazis are illogical.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Paris on 5:26 am on Aug. 20, 2002
Hahaha! All their money siphoned off of YOU is tax free!! Hahahahaah!


Oh no. Paris, you are making me so mad. Really.

I guess we got all of north america and its resources, and eradicated their people and way of life, but the few stragglers got a few paltry casinos.

Yep, they sure got one over on us.

Stop laughing at us paris, we are so angry.

Really, we are.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 5:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
They should have assimilated a long time ago. Now we have to waste taxpayer dollars on reservations so they can "preserve their cultural identity". God forbid they would want to use modern technology and have their land developed into something remotely productive. Reservations are just a fucking waste of money and land.

(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:15 am on Aug. 20, 2002)


(Edited by Dark Capitalist at 10:18 am on Aug. 20, 2002)


you think they are using that $$$ to "preserve their cultural identity?"

they are using the $$$ for another bottle of Wild Turkey

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:36 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from Paris on 2:31 am on Aug. 20, 2002
hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!

hahaaa good one. paris...the following isn't for you

Oh yeah and when you white supremiscist cops pull us over for no goddamn reason we are getting...

no how about when I get followed in a store i'm getting back at yall by...

oh wait my people don't got shit but you fuckin klans men breathin on or damn backs.

I mean ya'll just waitin for a black man to mess up so you can go, "See honey I told you all them niggers are evil"


yet CI you want me to be cool with everything?

When I know that I am getting followed by a middle aged white woman in a store and its cuz she either thinks i'm handsome or is trying to see if she remembers me from somewhere, instead of her thinking I'm gonna pull a switch blade and steal all her money, then i'll be cool.

but as long as I get followed for no damn reason...fuck this country

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 2:38 am on Aug. 20, 2002)



Lardlad, your concerns are frivolous.

You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.

You have it much easier here than you would have in Africa.

I know not all Africans live like this, but when europeans came to Africa for the slave trade, the primitive hunter-gatherer cultures are the ones that we took.

[Moskitto]

running from lions and hippos.

Are there wasps in Africa?

[JI]

CI,

Your last post about the Africans being better off in slavery than at their native land is the most stupid comment you have ever made. You lost all my respect.

Neo-imperialism has used the excuse of improving peoples way of life for taking over land and impossing their rule.

People are better off as they are, on their on, free of any foreign rule.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:57 pm on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:36 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from Paris on 2:31 am on Aug. 20, 2002
hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!

hahaaa good one. paris...the following isn't for you

Oh yeah and when you white supremiscist cops pull us over for no goddamn reason we are getting...

no how about when I get followed in a store i'm getting back at yall by...

oh wait my people don't got shit but you fuckin klans men breathin on or damn backs.

I mean ya'll just waitin for a black man to mess up so you can go, "See honey I told you all them niggers are evil"


yet CI you want me to be cool with everything?

When I know that I am getting followed by a middle aged white woman in a store and its cuz she either thinks i'm handsome or is trying to see if she remembers me from somewhere, instead of her thinking I'm gonna pull a switch blade and steal all her money, then i'll be cool.

but as long as I get followed for no damn reason...fuck this country

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 2:38 am on Aug. 20, 2002)



Lardlad, your concerns are frivolous.

You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.

You have it much easier here than you would have in Africa.

I know not all Africans live like this, but when europeans came to Africa for the slave trade, the primitive hunter-gatherer cultures are the ones that we took.


excuse me?

Don't give me that the Europeans were so sophisticated and the Africans were savages living in trees bullshit.

What kind of civilized people enslave other people?

What about the Mandinkas or the Wolof? Those were intellectualy and philisophically advanced trubes, yet American's still took them.

Get your racist head out of your ass.

Fuck the US I never asked to be here.

Do you think I should thank them for rapping my peoples women? For stripping us of our identities? For treating us like cattle?

You go thank the Nazi's for killing six million jews.

Maybe if that white hood wasn't so damn tight over your eyes you'd see this.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:57 pm on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 2:36 am on Aug. 20, 2002

Quote: from Paris on 2:31 am on Aug. 20, 2002
hahaha! The Indians are getting their reparations as we speak -- When you stupid cappies go into their casinos and they drain you of all your precious greenbacks. hahahahaha!

hahaaa good one. paris...the following isn't for you

Oh yeah and when you white supremiscist cops pull us over for no goddamn reason we are getting...

no how about when I get followed in a store i'm getting back at yall by...

oh wait my people don't got shit but you fuckin klans men breathin on or damn backs.

I mean ya'll just waitin for a black man to mess up so you can go, "See honey I told you all them niggers are evil"


yet CI you want me to be cool with everything?

When I know that I am getting followed by a middle aged white woman in a store and its cuz she either thinks i'm handsome or is trying to see if she remembers me from somewhere, instead of her thinking I'm gonna pull a switch blade and steal all her money, then i'll be cool.

but as long as I get followed for no damn reason...fuck this country

(Edited by Lardlad95 at 2:38 am on Aug. 20, 2002)

I know not all Africans live like this, but when europeans came to Africa for the slave trade, the primitive hunter-gatherer cultures are the ones that we took.


are you saying slvaery is justified because those few tribes that were primitive were taken?

not to mention not all the tribes were primitive.

So basicaly your saying its ok to enslave people who are hunter/gathers?

So its ok if I got to south america and enslave some amazon primitive tribe....because they aren't as technologicaly advanced as me....cuz thats basicaly what you are saying.

[Anonymous]

"Lardlad, your concerns are frivolous.

You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.

You have it much easier here than you would have in Africa.

I know not all Africans live like this, but when europeans came to Africa for the slave trade, the primitive hunter-gatherer cultures are the ones that we took."






Excuse me?! were did you lose your brain?! (sorry but from some odd reason my keyboard is going berserk and i cant find some keys!)

well of all those "primitive" africans lived bether than most of the englishes and americans during the 16, 17, 18, 19 and early 20th century!
well you can compare the native africans to the australian natives! and like the english captain that discovered Australia(i dont remember his name!) said! 'Althugh primitive, they live bether than the great majority of the english people!'

I was also suprised you dindt say the usual racist stupid coment They had slaves too! because it isn true, SOME tribes had slaves, but those slaves were captured in wars and when they commited crimes, and what the europeans did was enslave all africans they saw!

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from the anarchist on 10:13 pm on Aug. 20, 2002

"Lardlad, your concerns are frivolous.

You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.

You have it much easier here than you would have in Africa.

I know not all Africans live like this, but when europeans came to Africa for the slave trade, the primitive hunter-gatherer cultures are the ones that we took."






Excuse me?! were did you lose your brain?! (sorry but from some odd reason my keyboard is going berserk and i cant find some keys!)

well of all those "primitive" africans lived bether than most of the englishes and americans during the 16, 17, 18, 19 and early 20th century!
well you can compare the native africans to the australian natives! and like the english captain that discovered Australia(i dont remember his name!) said! 'Althugh primitive, they live bether than the great majority of the english people!'

I was also suprised you dindt say the usual racist stupid coment They had slaves too! because it isn true, SOME tribes had slaves, but those slaves were captured in wars and when they commited crimes, and what the europeans did was enslave all africans they saw!



not to mention alot of slaves soon became part of their master's family and or/married into it

[Borincano]

Slavery robs people of their free will, culture, and language. It's wrong no matter whhich people you do it to.

It's sad that some people don't understand that. :(

[Valkyrie]

"I guess we got all of north america and its resources, and eradicated their people and way of life, but the few stragglers got a few paltry casinos.

Yep, they sure got one over on us."

----

Hahaha! They did get over - The Battle of Little Big Horn - HA!- General George Armstrong Custard's LAST stand!! The biggest military incompetance in US History!!!! They should call it "Not one ldiot soldier left standing, but Custard's horse." Salute to Cheif Crazy Horse!
The best part is: They are carving Crazy Horse's image into a mountain in South Dakota- And the head alone is bigger than all four of the presidents at Mt. Rushmore! Hahahahaha!





(Edited by Paris at 10:34 pm on Aug. 20, 2002)


(Edited by Paris at 10:44 pm on Aug. 20, 2002)

[Sasafrás]

That "when's the last time you saw an Indian (Native American) family at Denny's?" is a Chris Rock thing.

Capitalist Imperial, you make me sick. That comment about the hippos, etc. really displays your ignorance more than most other things you've said. Who are we to say what's savage and what isn't? People just possess different ideas and practices but that doesn't make anyone more civilized than anyone else. Sure, it may not have been all cosmo and what not, but the African peoples still had very intricate and organized cultures and practices. Though I'll admit that since I've lived in the US for almost 18 years, I really would not want to go and live in the motherland, I'm not going to disrespect it or my people just because the things I do here differ greatly from the things they do there and I still want to learn about it because it is my "savage" history. Seriously, take your narrow-minded head out of your ass and learn to appreciate (and RESPECT) people who are different than you. Nobody's "better off" being slaves for other people. What if the Africans decided to say that the Europeans (your people) were uncivilized and that they should be enslaved simply because of the differences in culture(s)? Wait, or are they too "primitive" to even be able to decide anything? You really make me sick.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from La Rainbeaux on 10:33 pm on Aug. 20, 2002
That "when's the last time you saw an Indian (Native American) family at Denny's?" is a Chris Rock thing.

Capitalist Imperial, you make me sick. That comment about the hippos, etc. really displays your ignorance more than most other things you've said. Who are we to say what's savage and what isn't? People just possess different ideas and practices but that doesn't make anyone more civilized than anyone else. Sure, it may not have been all cosmo and what not, but the African peoples still had very intricate and organized cultures and practices. Though I'll admit that since I've lived in the US for almost 18 years, I really would not want to go and live in the motherland, I'm not going to disrespect it or my people just because the things I do here differ greatly from the things they do there and I still want to learn about it because it is my "savage" history. Seriously, take your narrow-minded head out of your ass and learn to appreciate (and RESPECT) people who are different than you. Nobody's "better off" being slaves for other people. What if the Africans decided to say that the Europeans (your people) were uncivilized and that they should be enslaved simply because of the differences in culture(s)? Wait, or are they too "primitive" to even be able to decide anything? You really make me sick.


actualy it was when was the last time you saw two native americans not a family at Denny's. Yes i borrowed the concept but not the words.

and on to the rest of what you said, I appluad your statement and give the finger to CI

[Anonymous]

You give him a finger i will give him a Magnum Slug up his ass! (and i dont like Magnums !!!!!) ok ok i will give him a AK Slug up is ass! lol

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
They should have assimilated a long time ago.[hr]Why should they assimilate to the European-American way of life? Shouldn't the first Europeans have assimilated, because they were the ones coming to a new land? Dark Capitalist, you should have built yourself a teepee a long time ago.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
Now we have to waste taxpayer dollars on reservations so they can "preserve their cultural identity".[hr]The government has to be held responsible for its actions. If the government had never wronged the Native Americans it would not have an obligation to help it preserve its culture. But for hundreds of years the American government has fucked the Native Americans over again and again. It shouldn't get off scot-free. If you hurt someone else, you must be held responsible.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
God forbid they would want to use modern technology[hr]Get this: Modern technology costs money. And because Native Americans are poor (I should know, since I spent all of last week at a Native American family reunion), they can't afford modern technology. Do you think that they refuse to live with heat, air conditioning or anything like that? Of course not.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
and have their land developed into something remotely productive.[hr]Their land is some of the worst there is. Many Native Americans try to be as productive as possible, but it's not easy with such awful land.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
Reservations are just a fucking waste of money and land.[hr]Reservations are a waste of land? Native Americans will have to live somewhere, whether that somewhere says "Reservation" on the map or not. Where do you want them to go?[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:32 am on Aug. 20, 2002
They should pay their godamned taxes like the rest of us. Hell, without taxdollars they wouldn't even have those nice little reservations.[hr]Reservations are only for the poorest of the poor Native Americans (and all of them still work whenever they can, so don't give me any bullshit about responsibility because they ARE responsible). Anyone who has the chance to leave the reservations will do so as soon as possible 99% of the time.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:53 am on Aug. 20, 2002
they are using the $$$ for another bottle of Wild Turkey[hr]Alcoholism, like drug use and crime, are symptoms of poverty. For example: Now that the US economy is not as good as it was a few years ago and so many more people are unemployed, the crime rate is up. Alcoholism went up during the depression. Why not spare the Native Americans and use those strong words on your grandparents?[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:57 am on Aug. 20, 2002
You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.[hr]According to the free-market capitalist theory, competition provides the best products because the people will choose what is best. So, if your above statement is right, people would have chosen slavery over living in Africa. So why is it that so many first-generation slaves (who experienced living in both worlds) risked their lives to escape?

Your savage friend,
Lindsay

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 11:20 pm on Aug. 20, 2002
[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
They should have assimilated a long time ago.[hr]Why should they assimilate to the European-American way of life? Shouldn't the first Europeans have assimilated, because they were the ones coming to a new land? Dark Capitalist, you should have built yourself a teepee a long time ago.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
Now we have to waste taxpayer dollars on reservations so they can "preserve their cultural identity".[hr]The government has to be held responsible for its actions. If the government had never wronged the Native Americans it would not have an obligation to help it preserve its culture. But for hundreds of years the American government has fucked the Native Americans over again and again. It shouldn't get off scot-free. If you hurt someone else, you must be held responsible.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
God forbid they would want to use modern technology[hr]Get this: Modern technology costs money. And because Native Americans are poor (I should know, since I spent all of last week at a Native American family reunion), they can't afford modern technology. Do you think that they refuse to live with heat, air conditioning or anything like that? Of course not.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
and have their land developed into something remotely productive.[hr]Their land is some of the worst there is. Many Native Americans try to be as productive as possible, but it's not easy with such awful land.[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:14 am on Aug. 20, 2002
Reservations are just a fucking waste of money and land.[hr]Reservations are a waste of land? Native Americans will have to live somewhere, whether that somewhere says "Reservation" on the map or not. Where do you want them to go?[hr]Quote: from Dark Capitalist on 12:32 am on Aug. 20, 2002
They should pay their godamned taxes like the rest of us. Hell, without taxdollars they wouldn't even have those nice little reservations.[hr]Reservations are only for the poorest of the poor Native Americans (and all of them still work whenever they can, so don't give me any bullshit about responsibility because they ARE responsible). Anyone who has the chance to leave the reservations will do so as soon as possible 99% of the time.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:53 am on Aug. 20, 2002
they are using the $$$ for another bottle of Wild Turkey[hr]Alcoholism, like drug use and crime, are symptoms of poverty. For example: Now that the US economy is not as good as it was a few years ago and so many more people are unemployed, the crime rate is up. Alcoholism went up during the depression. Why not spare the Native Americans and use those strong words on your grandparents?[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:57 am on Aug. 20, 2002
You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.[hr]According to the free-market capitalist theory, competition provides the best products because the people will choose what is best. So, if your above statement is right, people would have chosen slavery over living in Africa. So why is it that so many first-generation slaves (who experienced living in both worlds) risked their lives to escape?

Your savage friend,
Lindsay

all I got to say is thats a damn good statement

[Anonymous]

Three cheers to Lindsay!!!!!!!!1

[Anonymous]

ups i mean three cheers to i will deny you!

[Xvall]

Capitalist Imperial, how can you be so arrogant? I only know of a few people who refer to African culture and lifestyle as 'spear chucking', and they are all on Stormfront. But either way, I'm so freaggin glad to see how you kind Americans warmly forced the native Africans to a 'better place'; killing 1/3 of them in the process; and then going around hanging them when they are finally set free.

[Valkyrie]

I found this interesting little piece, which would apply to all oppressed peoples everywhere.


On the Art of Stealing
Human Rights©

[Note:
The following extracts are from a speech given by Gerry Gambill at a conference on Human Rights at Tobique Reserve in New Brunswick, in August, 1958. In this speech, he warned native people about how this society goes about taking away the human rights of native people...]

Presidential Race Commission has no First Nations representatives...

The art of denying Indians their human rights has been refined to a science. The following list of commonly used techniques will be helpful in "burglar-proofing" your reserves, and your rights.

1. GAIN THE INDIANS CO-OPERATION - It is much easier to steal someone's human rights if you can do it with his OWN co-operation. So..:


2. Make him a non-person. Human rights are for people. Convince Indians their ancestors were savages, that they were pagan, that Indians were drunkards. Make them wards of the government. Make a legal distinction, as in the Indian Act, between Indians and persons. Write history books that tell half the story.

3. Convince the Indian that he should be patient, that these things take time. Tell him that we are making progress, and that progress takes time.

4. Make him believe that things are being done for his own good. Tell him you're sure that after he has experienced your laws and actions that he will realise how good they have been. Tell the Indian he has to take a little of the bad in order to enjoy the benefits you are conferring on him.

5. Get some Indian people to do the dirty work. There are always those who will act for you to the disadvantage of their own people. Just give them a little honor and praise. This is generally the function of band councils, chiefs, and advisory councils: they have little legal power, but can handle the tough decisions such as welfare, allocation of housing etc.

6. Consult the Indian, but do not act on the basis of what you hear. Tell the Indian he has a voice and go through the motions of listening. Then interpret what you have heard to suit your own needs.

7. Insist that the Indian "GOES THROUGH PROPER CHANNELS." Make the channels and the procedures so difficult that he won't bother to do anything. When he discovers what the proper channels are and becomes proficient at the procedures, change them.

8. Make the Indian believe that you are working hard for him, putting in much overtime and at a great sacrifice, and imply that he should be appreciative. This is the ultimate in skills in stealing human rights; when you obtain the thanks of your victim.

9. Allow a few individuals to "MAKE THE GRADE" and then point to them as examples. Say that the 'HARDWORKERS" AND THE "GOOD" Indians have made it, and that therefore it is a person's own fault if he doesn't succeed.

10. Appeal to the Indian's sense of fairness, and tell him that even though things are pretty bad it is not right for him to make strong protests. Keep the argument going on his form of protest and avoid talking about the real issue. refuse to deal with him while he is protesting. Take all the fire out of his efforts.

11. Encourage the Indian to take his case to court. This is very expensive, takes lots of time and energy and is very safe because laws are stacked against him. The court's ruling will defeat the Indian's cause, but makes him think he has obtained justice.

12. Make the Indian believe that things could be worse, and that instead of complaining about the loss of human rights, to be grateful for the rights we do have. In fact, convince him that to attempt to regain a right he has lost is likely to jepordize the rights that he still has.

13. Set yourself up as the protector of the Indian's human rights, and then you can choose to act only on those violations you wish to act upon. By getting successful on a few minor violations of human rights, you can point to these as examples of your devotion to his cause. The burglar who is also the doorman is the perfect combination.

14. Pretend that the reason for the loss of human rights is for some other reason that the person is an Indian. Tell him some of your best friends are Indians, and that his loss of rights is because of his housekeeping, his drinking, his clothing.

15. Make the situation more complicated than is necessary. Tell the Indian you will have to take a survey to find out how many other Indians are being discriminating against. Hire a group of professors to make a year-long research project.

16. Insist on unanimity. Let the Indian know that when all the Indians in Canada can make up their minds about just what they want as a group, then you will act. Play one group's special situation against another group's wishes.

17. Select very limited alternatives, neither of which has much merit, and then tell the Indian that indeed he has a choice. Ask, for instance, if he could or would rather have council elections in June or December, instead of asking if he wants them at all.

18. Convince the Indian that the leaders who are the most beneficial and powerful are dangerous and not to be trusted. Or simply lock them up on some charge like driving with no lights. Or refuse to listen to the real leaders and spend much time with the weak ones. Keep the people split from their leaders by sowing rumour. Attempt to get the best leaders into high paying jobs where they have to keep quiet to keep their paycheck coming in.

19. Speak of the common good. Tell the Indian that you can't consider yourselves when there is a whole nation to think of. Tell him that he can't think only of himself. For instance, in regard to hunting rights, tell him we have to think of all the hunters, or the sporting good industry.

20. Remove rights so gradually that people don't realize what has happened until it is too late. Again, in regard to hunting rights, first restrict the geographical area where hunting is permitted, then cut the season to certain times of the year, then cut the limits down gradually, then insist on licensing, and then Indians will be on the same grounds as white sportsmen.

21. Rely on some reason and logic (your reason and logic) instead of rightness and morality. Give thousands of reasons for things, but do not get trapped into arguments about what is right.

22. Hold a conference on HUMAN RIGHTS, have everyone blow off steam and tension, and go home feeling things are well in hand.

The best ones are the dead ones...
We must do the necessary thinking for them...
To shout into the Wind...

[suffianr]

Fucking Imperialists spread disease to the American continent, did you know that, you capitalist whores?

The first slave ships carrying Africans were so unsanitary and inhospitable that herpes was actually the best you could walk away with, next to the common cold.

Yellow fever, dysentry, malaria and other known diseases carried by the slaves infected the local population, who had no immunity or history of disease prior to the "assimilation", so entire communities were wiped out because some White European dickhead forgot the toilet paper.

Viral mosquitoes, rats, lice, ticks and other little nasties stowed away on board the slave ships disrupted the equillibrium of the indigeous eco-systems, resulting in the spread of disease, encroachment of habitat and eventually "social darwinism" in the animal kingdom. Your current endemic episode of the "snake-head fish" is nothing compared to the havoc you brought to the locals when your forefathers decided to call America your home.

[Capitalist Imperial]

from ji:

"CI,

Your last post about the Africans being better off in slavery than at their native land is the most stupid comment you have ever made. You lost all my respect.

Neo-imperialism has used the excuse of improving peoples way of life for taking over land and impossing their rule.

People are better off as they are, on their on, free of any foreign rule. "

I didn't say they were better of in slavery, I meant they are bettter of today. Reparations are only in order when you are worse off than your ancestors. Contemporary african americans are not. They enjoy a standard of living in the upper 10th percentile of the world, and that is a fact.


from lardlad:

"excuse me?

Don't give me that the Europeans were so sophisticated and the Africans were savages living in trees bullshit.

What kind of civilized people enslave other people?

What about the Mandinkas or the Wolof? Those were intellectualy and philisophically advanced trubes, yet American's still took them.

Get your racist head out of your ass.

Fuck the US I never asked to be here.

Do you think I should thank them for rapping my peoples women? For stripping us of our identities? For treating us like cattle?

You go thank the Nazi's for killing six million jews.

Maybe if that white hood wasn't so damn tight over your eyes you'd see this."

again, i am not racist, i value diversity, and I think that slavery was wrong. I am talking about modern times.

however, lardlad, if you really didn't want to be here, you could make an exodus back to africa

but you are not doing that

from the anarchist:

"Excuse me?! were did you lose your brain?! (sorry but from some odd reason my keyboard is going berserk and i cant find some keys!)

well of all those "primitive" africans lived bether than most of the englishes and americans during the 16, 17, 18, 19 and early 20th century!"

this is just dogmatic bullshit, anarchist, how exactly were africans "living better" than europeans?

If they were "living better", then they would not have fallen slave to another people

"well you can compare the native africans to the australian natives! and like the english captain that discovered Australia(i dont remember his name!) said! 'Althugh primitive, they live bether than the great majority of the english people!'"

that was one capitan's opinion, and you probably quoted himout of context

"I was also suprised you dindt say the usual racist stupid coment They had slaves too! because it isn true, SOME tribes had slaves, but those slaves were captured in wars and when they commited crimes, and what the europeans did was enslave all africans they saw!"

Again, I am not condoning slavery, but what you are doing is justifying one slavery over the other

from borincano:

"Slavery robs people of their free will, culture, and language. It's wrong no matter whhich people you do it to.

It's sad that some people don't understand that."

what is sad is that you people don't understand that i never supported slavery, but the idea that modern african americans are better off now than they were in africa 400+ years ago


From Paris:

"Hahaha! They did get over - The Battle of Little Big Horn - HA!- General George Armstrong Custard's LAST stand!! The biggest military incompetance in US History!!!! They should call it "Not one ldiot soldier left standing, but Custard's horse." Salute to Cheif Crazy Horse!
The best part is: They are carving Crazy Horse's image into a mountain in South Dakota- And the head alone is bigger than all four of the presidents at Mt. Rushmore! Hahahahaha!"

Wow, 1 battle in how many thousands? Paris is an idiot, he thinks he is getting under our skin with his laughter and dumb points, but he is merely making himself look pathetic, as the native americans were easily eradicated by the europeans

what is your point, paris, do you really think any american actually thinks that natives somehow got the last laugh? LOL, get serious.

from anarchist:

"You give him a finger i will give him a Magnum Slug up his ass! (and i dont like Magnums !!!!!) ok ok i will give him a AK Slug up is ass! lol"

dude, you've probably never even touched a firearm

[Anonymous]

this is just dogmatic bullshit, anarchist, how exactly were africans "living better" than europeans?

If they were "living better", then they would not have fallen slave to another people

You are even more stupid than i though you were! they were enslaved because those "superior" men had firearms, because they were highly armed and the africans werent!! the greeks were also enslaved by the romans, yet theyr lifestyle was far bether to the roman lifestyle! soo yes they were living bether!



"well you can compare the native africans to the australian natives! and like the english captain that discovered Australia(i dont remember his name!) said! 'Althugh primitive, they live bether than the great majority of the english people!'"

that was one capitan's opinion, and you probably quoted himout of context
Actualy i dint, and if you watch the History channel, one doctumentary about the australian natives you will see that i am right!

And CI the litle respect i had for you is dead, you proved to be racist and stupid i never thought you could be soo stupid, neither i though you could be that racist, here is a good site for you www.stormfront.com go talk with you comrades there!

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 10:26 am on Aug. 21, 2002
from ji:

"CI,

Your last post about the Africans being better off in slavery than at their native land is the most stupid comment you have ever made. You lost all my respect.

Neo-imperialism has used the excuse of improving peoples way of life for taking over land and impossing their rule.

People are better off as they are, on their on, free of any foreign rule. "

I didn't say they were better of in slavery, I meant they are bettter of today. Reparations are only in order when you are worse off than your ancestors. Contemporary african americans are not. They enjoy a standard of living in the upper 10th percentile of the world, and that is a fact.


from lardlad:

"excuse me?

Don't give me that the Europeans were so sophisticated and the Africans were savages living in trees bullshit.

What kind of civilized people enslave other people?

What about the Mandinkas or the Wolof? Those were intellectualy and philisophically advanced trubes, yet American's still took them.

Get your racist head out of your ass.

Fuck the US I never asked to be here.

Do you think I should thank them for rapping my peoples women? For stripping us of our identities? For treating us like cattle?

You go thank the Nazi's for killing six million jews.

Maybe if that white hood wasn't so damn tight over your eyes you'd see this."

again, i am not racist, i value diversity, and I think that slavery was wrong. I am talking about modern times.

however, lardlad, if you really didn't want to be here, you could make an exodus back to africa

but you are not doing that

from the anarchist:

"Excuse me?! were did you lose your brain?! (sorry but from some odd reason my keyboard is going berserk and i cant find some keys!)

well of all those "primitive" africans lived bether than most of the englishes and americans during the 16, 17, 18, 19 and early 20th century!"

this is just dogmatic bullshit, anarchist, how exactly were africans "living better" than europeans?

If they were "living better", then they would not have fallen slave to another people

"well you can compare the native africans to the australian natives! and like the english captain that discovered Australia(i dont remember his name!) said! 'Althugh primitive, they live bether than the great majority of the english people!'"

that was one capitan's opinion, and you probably quoted himout of context

"I was also suprised you dindt say the usual racist stupid coment They had slaves too! because it isn true, SOME tribes had slaves, but those slaves were captured in wars and when they commited crimes, and what the europeans did was enslave all africans they saw!"

Again, I am not condoning slavery, but what you are doing is justifying one slavery over the other

from borincano:

"Slavery robs people of their free will, culture, and language. It's wrong no matter whhich people you do it to.

It's sad that some people don't understand that."

what is sad is that you people don't understand that i never supported slavery, but the idea that modern african americans are better off now than they were in africa 400+ years ago


From Paris:

"Hahaha! They did get over - The Battle of Little Big Horn - HA!- General George Armstrong Custard's LAST stand!! The biggest military incompetance in US History!!!! They should call it "Not one ldiot soldier left standing, but Custard's horse." Salute to Cheif Crazy Horse!
The best part is: They are carving Crazy Horse's image into a mountain in South Dakota- And the head alone is bigger than all four of the presidents at Mt. Rushmore! Hahahahaha!"

Wow, 1 battle in how many thousands? Paris is an idiot, he thinks he is getting under our skin with his laughter and dumb points, but he is merely making himself look pathetic, as the native americans were easily eradicated by the europeans

what is your point, paris, do you really think any american actually thinks that natives somehow got the last laugh? LOL, get serious.

from anarchist:

"You give him a finger i will give him a Magnum Slug up his ass! (and i dont like Magnums !!!!!) ok ok i will give him a AK Slug up is ass! lol"

dude, you've probably never even touched a firearmWhy is it that everyone always seems to ignore me? I hated Yuri, but at least he was kind enough to argue with me when he yelled at my comrades, too.

Lindsay

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 3:26 pm on Aug. 21, 2002
from ji:

"CI,

Your last post about the Africans being better off in slavery than at their native land is the most stupid comment you have ever made. You lost all my respect.

Neo-imperialism has used the excuse of improving peoples way of life for taking over land and impossing their rule.

People are better off as they are, on their on, free of any foreign rule. "

I didn't say they were better of in slavery, I meant they are bettter of today. Reparations are only in order when you are worse off than your ancestors. Contemporary african americans are not. They enjoy a standard of living in the upper 10th percentile of the world, and that is a fact.


from lardlad:

"excuse me?

Don't give me that the Europeans were so sophisticated and the Africans were savages living in trees bullshit.

What kind of civilized people enslave other people?

What about the Mandinkas or the Wolof? Those were intellectualy and philisophically advanced trubes, yet American's still took them.

Get your racist head out of your ass.

Fuck the US I never asked to be here.

Do you think I should thank them for rapping my peoples women? For stripping us of our identities? For treating us like cattle?

You go thank the Nazi's for killing six million jews.

Maybe if that white hood wasn't so damn tight over your eyes you'd see this."

again, i am not racist, i value diversity, and I think that slavery was wrong. I am talking about modern times.

however, lardlad, if you really didn't want to be here, you could make an exodus back to africa

but you are not doing that

from the anarchist:

"Excuse me?! were did you lose your brain?! (sorry but from some odd reason my keyboard is going berserk and i cant find some keys!)

well of all those "primitive" africans lived bether than most of the englishes and americans during the 16, 17, 18, 19 and early 20th century!"

this is just dogmatic bullshit, anarchist, how exactly were africans "living better" than europeans?

If they were "living better", then they would not have fallen slave to another people

"well you can compare the native africans to the australian natives! and like the english captain that discovered Australia(i dont remember his name!) said! 'Althugh primitive, they live bether than the great majority of the english people!'"

that was one capitan's opinion, and you probably quoted himout of context

"I was also suprised you dindt say the usual racist stupid coment They had slaves too! because it isn true, SOME tribes had slaves, but those slaves were captured in wars and when they commited crimes, and what the europeans did was enslave all africans they saw!"

Again, I am not condoning slavery, but what you are doing is justifying one slavery over the other

from borincano:

"Slavery robs people of their free will, culture, and language. It's wrong no matter whhich people you do it to.

It's sad that some people don't understand that."

what is sad is that you people don't understand that i never supported slavery, but the idea that modern african americans are better off now than they were in africa 400+ years ago


From Paris:

"Hahaha! They did get over - The Battle of Little Big Horn - HA!- General George Armstrong Custard's LAST stand!! The biggest military incompetance in US History!!!! They should call it "Not one ldiot soldier left standing, but Custard's horse." Salute to Cheif Crazy Horse!
The best part is: They are carving Crazy Horse's image into a mountain in South Dakota- And the head alone is bigger than all four of the presidents at Mt. Rushmore! Hahahahaha!"

Wow, 1 battle in how many thousands? Paris is an idiot, he thinks he is getting under our skin with his laughter and dumb points, but he is merely making himself look pathetic, as the native americans were easily eradicated by the europeans

what is your point, paris, do you really think any american actually thinks that natives somehow got the last laugh? LOL, get serious.

from anarchist:

"You give him a finger i will give him a Magnum Slug up his ass! (and i dont like Magnums !!!!!) ok ok i will give him a AK Slug up is ass! lol"

dude, you've probably never even touched a firearm




Africa isn't my home

the US is, I can disagree with my homes actions but I wouldn't feel comfortable outside of my home...were ever I moved wouldn't be my home.


I have a right to live, here, and yes I have it bette than my ancestors, however the US was still wrong.

It will always be wrong and I hate it for that.

I have a right to, what this country did is evil.

But i also believe that evil can be changed which is why I believe in democratic socialism.

An attitude can change, but even a death row inmate who repents will still get the chair.

The US will never be forgiven for its actions but I believe that it can repent and try to make up for what it did.


you value diversity? Then start showing leftists some God damnr espect instead of calling us fools for our beliefs

[Valkyrie]

"Wow, 1 battle in how many thousands? Paris is an idiot, he thinks he is getting under our skin with his laughter and dumb points, but he is merely making himself look pathetic, as the native americans were easily eradicated by the europeans

what is your point, paris, do you really think any american actually thinks that natives somehow got the last laugh? LOL, get serious. "
-----

HAHAHAhAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHAHA!

[Capitalist Imperial]

A lot of liberals screaming "racist" around here!

Again, I restate, I am not racist, I value diversity. At he same time I look at reality.

Can anyone here point out an instance on this thread when I made a blatantly inappropriate racist comment?

(except the indian/Wild Turkey thing, I admit that was wrong, it was for a little comedy relief and in bad taste, I withdraw it from the record, strike it.)

go ahead, I'm waiting.

[Deamon]

Sorry for jumping in late and not reading all the replies, but the american indians weren't as huge victims as they're made out to be in the modern era. All through the colinization of the east coast indians often made unprovoked attacks on white settlers and would sell themselves as mecenaries to rival european powers, they didn't understand limited war and killed women and children and prisoners they did take, all the men would be ransomed or killed and all but a few of the women and children would be killed or made slaves. And it wasn't because they were losing land to whites, they did most of these attacks because they were paid to do it. They were as greedy as the white man. So naturally when it came to westward expansion, the whites had a predisposition to hate the indians. They were also notoriously american, they were ignorant of sacred area's, the importance bison played in the indians lives so they retaliated and indians slaughtered thousands of white settlers, the U.S army came and wiped out any tribes in there area, even peaceful ones. as an attempt to protect the white settlers that were disrespecting the indians. Neither were victims and both were instigators and in the end the indians lost. Thats how it goes. Though there were many tribes unfairly punished, eg. the cherokee on the trail of tears, or the murdoc indians on the west coast.

To each his fate.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 3:09 pm on Aug. 22, 2002
A lot of liberals screaming "racist" around here!

Again, I restate, I am not racist, I value diversity. At he same time I look at reality.

Can anyone here point out an instance on this thread when I made a blatantly inappropriate racist comment?

(except the indian/Wild Turkey thing, I admit that was wrong, it was for a little comedy relief and in bad taste, I withdraw it from the record, strike it.)

go ahead, I'm waiting.


thats right get rid of the proof :)

anyway I never meant it literaly but your right wing veiws annoy me

[I Will Deny You]

CI, I'm still waiting for a response. I know you've been here, dammit!

Lindsay

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 11:18 pm on Aug. 22, 2002
CI, I'm still waiting for a response. I know you've been here, dammit!

Lindsay

OK, Lindsay, I will respond to your good rebuttals to my points:

"Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:53 am on Aug. 20, 2002
they are using the $$$ for another bottle of Wild Turkey
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alcoholism, like drug use and crime, are symptoms of poverty. For example: Now that the US economy is not as good as it was a few years ago and so many more people are unemployed, the crime rate is up. Alcoholism went up during the depression. Why not spare the Native Americans and use those strong words on your grandparents?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is typical leftist edict, being an apologist for alcoholics.

Alcoholism is a disease, and not a symptom of poverty. Countless middle and even upper class individuals suffer from alcoholism. It is an addiction, and knows no class or ideology. Those who suffer from it are responsible to themselves and those around them to get help.

"Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:57 am on Aug. 20, 2002
You should be on your knees thanking the shit out of America that you are not still in Africa chucking spears at gazelles and running from lions and hippos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the free-market capitalist theory, competition provides the best products because the people will choose what is best. So, if your above statement is right, people would have chosen slavery over living in Africa. So why is it that so many first-generation slaves (who experienced living in both worlds) risked their lives to escape?"

Again, as I have stated before, I am not talking about african's in africa compared to african-american slaves 150 years ago. I am talking about contemporary african americans, who live with a living standard in the top 10 percentile in the world. And, so, logically, your comment on free-market theory rings true. Modern african americans, last time I checked, are not making an exodus back to their "homeland", because they understand that life in the US is better.





(Edited by Capitalist Imperial at 4:36 am on Aug. 23, 2002)

[Brian]

>>>You are even more stupid than i though you were! they were enslaved because those "superior" men had firearms, because they were highly armed and the africans werent!! the greeks were also enslaved by the romans, yet theyr lifestyle was far bether to the roman lifestyle! soo yes they were living bether!

Sorry but Africans were not "Living Better" then Europeans.

Since when has killing eacher and living mud hunts and having a bone throu your nose better living then living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history?

Africans were inferior to European culture and life style.

(Edited by Brian at 4:11 pm on Oct. 7, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Brian on 10:09 pm on Oct. 7, 2002
>>>You are even more stupid than i though you were! they were enslaved because those "superior" men had firearms, because they were highly armed and the africans werent!! the greeks were also enslaved by the romans, yet theyr lifestyle was far bether to the roman lifestyle! soo yes they were living bether!

Sorry but Africans were not "Living Better" then Europeans.

Since when has killing eacher and living mud hunts and having a bone throu your nose better living then living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history?

Africans were inferior to European culture and life style.

(Edited by Brian at 4:11 pm on Oct. 7, 2002)



my god your are a dumb ass fuck

Bone's through their noses? You've been watching to many old racist cartoons and black face movies.

The majority of the Gambia was Muslim they learned Arabic, they learned Islamic history.


Not to mention they had art, ever seen african sculpturs?

Of course not your to busy praising the fuckin Aryan Nation.

Killing Each Other? What the fuck do you think the Europeans did?

So War means sitting down and talking?

Europeans killed each other all the damn time.

"living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history? "

It's not that they weren't educated it was that they weren't educated in European history jack ass.

How could they have been? They weren't European.

Islamic society had great mathmeticians and doctors all of which spread when they went to different lands, Ie the Gambia.

You act like africans were in trees throwing dung at people and grunting while making cave paintings.

Just because they weren't like those asshole Europeans that doesn't amke them Neanderthals.

You dumbass Aryan nation White Hood wearing cross burning jackass

[canikickit]

From Capitalist Imperial Bullshit Artist

"Yes, first you kill their villages, kill theyr primal sorce of food, destroy theyr culter, pt them in concentration camps and call it reserves, use them in war and then leave them! now you say america is yours?"

uh, yeah, we do, and it is. Two words: Manifest Destiny

What a piece of shit you are, Capitalist Imperial. What an asshole.

What an antiquated hunk of junk. That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. You sir, are a bigot.

[Guest]

Quote: from American Kid on 4:10 am on Aug. 19, 2002

To me, it's just social darwinism. We came in, we were bigger, stronger, there was more of us and we killed them (most of them) and took their land. We ate them. That's just how it happened.

I'm not a idiot. I realize this was abhorant. But I've read your profile, anarchist. You're from Portugal. Weren't many of the early expeditions funded and followed out by Portugese? What is this, just another Portugese bullshit?

-AK


American kid brought up two good points there... one i agree with, and one i don't....

The fact is, when it came to whites and the natives of any land that was colonized or raped, the first units of labour are always the indigenous peoples.... this happened in the caribbean, latin america, north america, where the local "indian" population was simply worked to death... another large part of their populations decline was disease... europeans introduced small pox, measles and so on, to the indians who died in massive numbers... it was a systematic destruction of a race, plain and simple.... the europeans were not bigger, faster, stronger.. they had the advantage of technology, but has anyone ever heard of real buffalo soldiers???? bob marley was talking about a real event... often you will hear a african brother living in north america say that he has indian in his family...
this is true, the europeans tried to breed the perfect soldier, the ferocity and courage of the indians, with the strength of the african.... the europeans werent stronger, they were just more efficant at killing people to satisfy thier bloodlust...

I agree with you on the second point, portugal was horrible when it came to imperialist actions... angola, brazil and so on were stripped by the portugese fleets... but you can't point that all at him, I am black, but i am not a slave or have been a slave... time washes responsibilty from those who encountered and benefitted from slavery, but the lessons must never be forgotten... you are american, but i do not hate you individually for making my ancestors in the caribbean cut sugarcane, but i may dislike you as a collective group that represents imperialist tendencies... no disrespect AK....

one

[ovrproofmentalz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

sorry that last post was from me, i didn't log in.... just curious, but what do you guys think about reparations to the blacks in america to make up for slavery???

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from ovrproofmentalz on 2:20 am on Oct. 8, 2002
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

sorry that last post was from me, i didn't log in.... just curious, but what do you guys think about reparations to the blacks in america to make up for slavery???


As i've said before I would be fine with an apology from the Government

however I think it would be nice if the Government finally gave the decendants of slaves what it promised said slaves

but an apology from Congress would be fine with me

[Brian]

Quote: from Lardlad95



my god your are a dumb ass fuck

Bone's through their noses? You've been watching to many old racist cartoons and black face movies.

The majority of the Gambia was Muslim they learned Arabic, they learned Islamic history.


Not to mention they had art, ever seen african sculpturs?

Of course not your to busy praising the fuckin Aryan Nation.

Killing Each Other? What the fuck do you think the Europeans did?

So War means sitting down and talking?

Europeans killed each other all the damn time.

"living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history? "

It's not that they weren't educated it was that they weren't educated in European history jack ass.

How could they have been? They weren't European.

Islamic society had great mathmeticians and doctors all of which spread when they went to different lands, Ie the Gambia.

You act like africans were in trees throwing dung at people and grunting while making cave paintings.

Just because they weren't like those asshole Europeans that doesn't amke them Neanderthals.

You dumbass Aryan nation White Hood wearing cross burning jackass

http://images.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/games/_photos/monkey-brains.jpg

(Edited by Brian at 7:47 am on Oct. 8, 2002)

[Smoking Frog II]

I'm doing the american west in history at school, And i have to do a presentation
'were the plains indians savage'
It's gonna finish: The plains indians may have been savage, but is it savage to pollute the world by capitalism? or that sorta thing...

[Goldfinger]

Exuse me Brian, but you're an idiot, and should be banned. Not for being an idiot, but for being a
dumbass Aryan nation White Hood wearing cross burning jackass.

[ovrproofmentalz]

that man brian is on some racial hieracrchy tip.... he doesnt know his history.... i didnt notice his comment before, but i didnt want it to come to this, but oh well......
he believe's whites were superior, who were the first doctors or mathmaticians?
look at the ancient worshipings of imhotep, the father of medicine... in greece & rome he was worshiped as a black african....
What about your great european culture that was held down by the Black Muslim Moors for several centuries???
Your English, latin, greek and germanic languages all came from the veda sanscript.... a tounge spoken by non white peoples....
the white christian god came from a place where white skin was hard to come by.... there weren't many if any white skinned, brown haired, blue eyed people in the middle east 2000 years ago.... the vision of christ is painted as white to make white people feel holier, and non whites as inferior....
makin maifest destiny to rule over non whites due to racial superiority deemed from their made up religion...

you want more examples of your Superior culture/race???

[Brian]

Quote: from ovrproofmentalz on 9:02 pm on Oct. 8, 2002
that man brian is on some racial hieracrchy tip.... he doesnt know his history.... i didnt notice his comment before, but i didnt want it to come to this, but oh well......
he believe's whites were superior, who were the first doctors or mathmaticians?
look at the ancient worshipings of imhotep, the father of medicine... in greece & rome he was worshiped as a black african....
What about your great european culture that was held down by the Black Muslim Moors for several centuries???
Your English, latin, greek and germanic languages all came from the veda sanscript.... a tounge spoken by non white peoples....
the white christian god came from a place where white skin was hard to come by.... there weren't many if any white skinned, brown haired, blue eyed people in the middle east 2000 years ago.... the vision of christ is painted as white to make white people feel holier, and non whites as inferior....
makin maifest destiny to rule over non whites due to racial superiority deemed from their made up religion...

you want more examples of your Superior culture/race???


LOL- Keep dreaming monkey!

I don't believe a sentence of your poorly spelled bullshit.Maybe if you had a link!

Also its a known fact whites have invented 90% of the things the world uses today.

(Edited by Brian at 3:26 pm on Oct. 8, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Brian on 1:40 pm on Oct. 8, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95



my god your are a dumb ass fuck

Bone's through their noses? You've been watching to many old racist cartoons and black face movies.

The majority of the Gambia was Muslim they learned Arabic, they learned Islamic history.


Not to mention they had art, ever seen african sculpturs?

Of course not your to busy praising the fuckin Aryan Nation.

Killing Each Other? What the fuck do you think the Europeans did?

So War means sitting down and talking?

Europeans killed each other all the damn time.

"living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history? "

It's not that they weren't educated it was that they weren't educated in European history jack ass.

How could they have been? They weren't European.

Islamic society had great mathmeticians and doctors all of which spread when they went to different lands, Ie the Gambia.

You act like africans were in trees throwing dung at people and grunting while making cave paintings.

Just because they weren't like those asshole Europeans that doesn't amke them Neanderthals.

You dumbass Aryan nation White Hood wearing cross burning jackass

http://images.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/review/games/_photos/monkey-brains.jpg


LOL- Keep dreaming monkey!

I don't believe a sentence of your poorly spelled bullshit.Maybe if you had a link!

Also its a known fact whites have invented 90% of the things the world uses today
(Edited by Brian at 7:47 am on Oct. 8, 2002)




Yet for some resoon brain has chosen to go around an actual disscussion and result to calling me and my fellow Black brethren monkies

I commend you Brian for being an Aryan asshole you are an insult to the race that bore you

I am not nore have I ever been a monkey in fact I don't plan on being a monkey any time soon


When Saddam drops chemical weapons don't use a gas mask...invented by a black man

and run red lights, street lights...black man also

[Lardlad95]

by the way Brian wheres the link proving I'm a monkey and the one proving white people invented everything

you discredit that other guy for the same reason

[ovrproofmentalz]

don't stress the over agressive whiteman... the revolution is gonna come soon... and sadly i don't have links to that information you wanted, cause im afraid they came from books not the net... information does come from them too.....

[Brian]

What books? Name these books!

[ovrproofmentalz]

The Origin of Language: Tracing the Evolution of the Mother Tongue
by Merritt Ruhlen

The Moors: The Islamic West 7Th-15th Centuries Ad (Men-At-Arms, 348)
by David, Ph.D. Nicolle

Turks, Moors, and Englishmen in the Age of Discovery
by Nabil Matar

Imhotep: The Egyptian God of Medicine
by Jamieson B., M.A.,

They Came Before Columbus by Ivan. Van Sertima

The Golden Age of the Moor (Journal of African Civilizations, Vol 11, Fall 1991) by Ivan Van Sertima

The Future of an Illusion
by Sigmund Freud

The Hidden Face of God: Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth
by Gerald L. Schroeder

those are the ones that i know of personally... im sure you can find a lot more...

[Guest]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 11:00 pm on Oct. 7, 2002

Quote: from Brian on 10:09 pm on Oct. 7, 2002
>>>You are even more stupid than i though you were! they were enslaved because those "superior" men had firearms, because they were highly armed and the africans werent!! the greeks were also enslaved by the romans, yet theyr lifestyle was far bether to the roman lifestyle! soo yes they were living bether!

Sorry but Africans were not "Living Better" then Europeans.

Since when has killing eacher and living mud hunts and having a bone throu your nose better living then living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history?

Africans were inferior to European culture and life style.

(Edited by Brian at 4:11 pm on Oct. 7, 2002)



my god your are a dumb ass fuck

Bone's through their noses? You've been watching to many old racist cartoons and black face movies.

The majority of the Gambia was Muslim they learned Arabic, they learned Islamic history.


Not to mention they had art, ever seen african sculpturs?

Of course not your to busy praising the fuckin Aryan Nation.

Killing Each Other? What the fuck do you think the Europeans did?

So War means sitting down and talking?

Europeans killed each other all the damn time.

"living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history? "

It's not that they weren't educated it was that they weren't educated in European history jack ass.

How could they have been? They weren't European.

Islamic society had great mathmeticians and doctors all of which spread when they went to different lands, Ie the Gambia.

You act like africans were in trees throwing dung at people and grunting while making cave paintings.

Just because they weren't like those asshole Europeans that doesn't amke them Neanderthals.

You dumbass Aryan nation White Hood wearing cross burning jackass


Oh wow gambia is some big nigger success story ain't it? Whose stereotyping now, you seem to assume that NO african tribes had bones in noses, and that anyone who thinks the africans were primative and had a less culture (which is true) are automatically KKK members.

The only succesful african kingdoms were those that USED arabic cultures, (excepting ethiopia). They have no culture of their own and still don't, what can an african teacher say in school, only what was recorded, africans didn't record their history, the europeans did, of course it has been biased towards being pro-african, but that is understandable considering everyone is nationalist indirectly these days.

Basically, you're the one stereotyping, and hell we all got a little of that, but you're just make it more apparent than anyone else right now.

[better off with]

Wow. Send in the clowns. Or wait, the "guest" has it taken care of.

Facts are:
1) Africa was significantly less technologically advanced than the Europeans.

2) The Africans did most of the heavy lifting for slavery all by themselves (i.e. the most powerful and most violent tribes rounded up the neighbors)

3) Slavery was still a terrible crime committed by people who should have been more societally advanced than they were since they had voices or reason tracing back to the previous millenia who had said as much.

[better off with]

As far as the native Americans, their situation was really one of rampant racism against a technologically underdeveloped people. The evils perpetrated against the Native Americans were done by whites *regardless* of their political inclinations.

We won't ever know how the advance of civilization would have gone without the racism that we imported from Europe, but what is certain is that their civilization was *not* as advanced at satisfying the wants of men, and it was bound to be replaced. The Native Americans fought each other to get at the goods that the Europeans brought. They were every bit as ignorant, greedy, and foolish as the Europeans, they were just not as powerful. The real tragedy was not the loss of the Native culture, but the loss of the Native *people*! The countless millions that died of disease, and the tens of thousands that died in war were an unspeakable tragedy. If only we could prosecute those who handed out disease ridden blankets, or who sought to kill the Natives because of irrational hatred. We can't. They are dead, and reasonable men loathe the fact that they escaped mostly unpunished. The only crimes against the Natives that can be redressed are the crimes of robbing them of their dignity by pretending they were not conquered, and having them living in welfare-state reservations, dying of alcoholism and hopelessness, while telling them that we love their culture. The European culture that destroyed them (that of the 13th-17th centuries) has passed, and by the same note they must move beyond pining for their stone aged culture.

Phew. That was long winded. Now I get into my asbestos pajamas.

[yourfriend]

Why do Native Americans need reserved land? Where's the reserved land for blacks and hispanics? Why dont they get a job like the rest of us, and quit complaining about how people are always taking "their land". They rely on government payments and already purchased land to build their house on. Do we? No, of course not.

[Guest]

i think you forget that all u.s land was once native american land, while hispanics and blacks are immigrants, just like whites, and were never in danger of being extinct unlike indians.

While I'll never feel obligated to apologise for my ancestors, or ready to give up my home for an indian, the reservation land was part of larger areas of land that WAS given to them. I believe in social darwinism but I also believe in honesty, indians that didn't keep their word either, I don't feel sorry for (eg. the seminoles) and feel they shouldn't even have a reservation, but indians who tried as hard as they could to fit in and were honest (cherokees) should really be given a formal apology and the land that they were given previous to the trail of tears.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 2:15 am on Oct. 10, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 11:00 pm on Oct. 7, 2002

Quote: from Brian on 10:09 pm on Oct. 7, 2002
>>>You are even more stupid than i though you were! they were enslaved because those "superior" men had firearms, because they were highly armed and the africans werent!! the greeks were also enslaved by the romans, yet theyr lifestyle was far bether to the roman lifestyle! soo yes they were living bether!

Sorry but Africans were not "Living Better" then Europeans.

Since when has killing eacher and living mud hunts and having a bone throu your nose better living then living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history?

Africans were inferior to European culture and life style.

(Edited by Brian at 4:11 pm on Oct. 7, 2002)



my god your are a dumb ass fuck

Bone's through their noses? You've been watching to many old racist cartoons and black face movies.

The majority of the Gambia was Muslim they learned Arabic, they learned Islamic history.


Not to mention they had art, ever seen african sculpturs?

Of course not your to busy praising the fuckin Aryan Nation.

Killing Each Other? What the fuck do you think the Europeans did?

So War means sitting down and talking?

Europeans killed each other all the damn time.

"living in a real house and having police and being educated and having a histroy of great art and history? "

It's not that they weren't educated it was that they weren't educated in European history jack ass.

How could they have been? They weren't European.

Islamic society had great mathmeticians and doctors all of which spread when they went to different lands, Ie the Gambia.

You act like africans were in trees throwing dung at people and grunting while making cave paintings.

Just because they weren't like those asshole Europeans that doesn't amke them Neanderthals.

You dumbass Aryan nation White Hood wearing cross burning jackass


Oh wow gambia is some big nigger success story ain't it? Whose stereotyping now, you seem to assume that NO african tribes had bones in noses, and that anyone who thinks the africans were primative and had a less culture (which is true) are automatically KKK members.

The only succesful african kingdoms were those that USED arabic cultures, (excepting ethiopia). They have no culture of their own and still don't, what can an african teacher say in school, only what was recorded, africans didn't record their history, the europeans did, of course it has been biased towards being pro-african, but that is understandable considering everyone is nationalist indirectly these days.

Basically, you're the one stereotyping, and hell we all got a little of that, but you're just make it more apparent than anyone else right now.


you idiot every tribe had a culture if you have a culture you can't have a less one. You can have a different one but not a less one.

Second stereotyping is saying that everyone of a particular group has the same qualities.

Did every african have bones through their noses? I'm waiting for an answer..oh wait you couldn't say that was true cuz it isn't.


They didn't use Arabic culture, it was mixed with arabic culture.

THe religion was the main thing that was Arabic.

Your problem is you think your race is superior to mine. Yet you can't prove that.

All your acomplishing is provng your ignorance. Your pulling out stereotypes like bones through their noses and shit like that.

You call tehm primitive because they didn't have the technology that the Europeans had. Atleast they didn't almost wipe out an entire race and enslave 80 million of another. The Europeans that did that were savages.

The concept of primitive is a state of mind.

Is it technology, or ideology?

Get this through your head your race isn't superior to any other. No race is superior, technology doesn't equal superiority

by the way you saying that they had bones through their noses is sterotyping because you said they which didn't distinguish the people that did.

They applies to all of them. I never said that some of them didn't.

I was talking about Brian saying that "they" had bones through their noses.

Thats not sterotyping.

[Guest]

Wow, it seems when you get angry you have trouble thinking or replying correctly. Maybe the africans just were not as inventive as the europeans, is that better word? Sure they have the potential to be, we're all homo sapians but while europeans had to constantly improve because of their many wars, the africans felt no need to improve (of course there were exceptions, shaka improved the african war tatics increbibly and created a much more effective spear).

I haven't said blacks were inferior and I still don't get why you focus on the bone through the nose thing.

But saying europeans were savage and what not is stupid, africans would've done the same thing, you make out like the europeans are some evil group of people out to make everyone inferior to them...
Which is true :D but its human nature to want to be better than others and africans have this trait too.

They were just weaker militarily and technologically (and culturally, I don't care what you think) than the europeans and suffered because of it, as AK said, social darwinism. (read some spencer)

Technology does equal superiority, the white race is still dominant to the black race because of the huge gap in technology back when colonialism was in its better times, and thanks to some generous efforts the black race (in africa anyway) is catching up quickly, though they have lost alot of what little culture along the way.

Don't give me some bullshit reply again about bones in noses and calling anyone racist, who says the africans weren't as succesful as the europeans, when we all know its true. btw.. 80 million people were not turned into slaves, little fact for you.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 3:17 am on Oct. 12, 2002
Wow, it seems when you get angry you have trouble thinking or replying correctly. Maybe the africans just were not as inventive as the europeans, is that better word? Sure they have the potential to be, we're all homo sapians but while europeans had to constantly improve because of their many wars, the africans felt no need to improve (of course there were exceptions, shaka improved the african war tatics increbibly and created a much more effective spear).

I haven't said blacks were inferior and I still don't get why you focus on the bone through the nose thing.

But saying europeans were savage and what not is stupid, africans would've done the same thing, you make out like the europeans are some evil group of people out to make everyone inferior to them...
Which is true :D but its human nature to want to be better than others and africans have this trait too.

They were just weaker militarily and technologically (and culturally, I don't care what you think) than the europeans and suffered because of it, as AK said, social darwinism. (read some spencer)

Technology does equal superiority, the white race is still dominant to the black race because of the huge gap in technology back when colonialism was in its better times, and thanks to some generous efforts the black race (in africa anyway) is catching up quickly, though they have lost alot of what little culture along the way.

Don't give me some bullshit reply again about bones in noses and calling anyone racist, who says the africans weren't as succesful as the europeans, when we all know its true. btw.. 80 million people were not turned into slaves, little fact for you.

it's nto a fact unless you can prove it.

You can't have a superior culture.

You can be superior through technology which the Europeans were I'm not disagreeing but that is only one aspect of culture.

However that was back when people weren't connected.

Guess what teh white race isn't superior.

i'm black, my family has three computers.

Does this make me superior to some trailer trash white guy in a mobile home who has to drink well water?

Because i have better technology?

That doesn't make my race superior.

You put to much imphasis on technology.

Not to mention what the Europeans did was savage. It was horrible. THey killed, raped, and enslaved.

Thats horrible.

Because something is human nature doesn't mean that it's okay to act on it.

When your angry it's human nature to hit the person your angry at...does that mean I should go around punchng people?

You can't measure culture.

Your right they didn't have the technology that the Europeans had

they didn't have the weapons

but you ccan't have an inferior culture.

Certain aspects of culture can be...but to say that the culture as a whole is is bullshit.

Music is part of culture, art is part of culture (they did make sculpturs), religion is part of culture, sports, and stories and legends are part of culture.

You can't say that one type of music is inferior to another because it's an opinion.

You can say that a gun will kill you more effectivley than a spear.

You can say that men on horses with guns are better than men running with spears (not neccassarily there could be an upset but generally)

Medication, weapons. THose can be measuered in effectiveness

but how the hell can you measure the effectiveness of music? Or art?

It's impossible.

Culture isn't just technology.

[PaulDavidHewson]

I suppose the Egyptians, greek, romans, chinese and some other cultures around the middle east and such had nothing to do with the level of progress today?

Medieval europe was not really superior to the greek, romans, chinese scientifically speaking.
what new invention did medieval europe bring?

Didn't modern Japan bring some revulotionary discoveries?

One example, the battery was invented by the egyptians. It was later(god knows how many years later) improved upon by the west.

[Guest]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 3:32 am on Oct. 12, 2002

it's nto a fact unless you can prove it.

You can't have a superior culture.

You can be superior through technology which the Europeans were I'm not disagreeing but that is only one aspect of culture.

However that was back when people weren't connected.

Guess what teh white race isn't superior.

i'm black, my family has three computers.

Does this make me superior to some trailer trash white guy in a mobile home who has to drink well water?

Because i have better technology?

That doesn't make my race superior.

You put to much imphasis on technology.

Not to mention what the Europeans did was savage. It was horrible. THey killed, raped, and enslaved.

Thats horrible.

Because something is human nature doesn't mean that it's okay to act on it.

When your angry it's human nature to hit the person your angry at...does that mean I should go around punchng people?

You can't measure culture.

Your right they didn't have the technology that the Europeans had

they didn't have the weapons

but you ccan't have an inferior culture.

Certain aspects of culture can be...but to say that the culture as a whole is is bullshit.

Music is part of culture, art is part of culture (they did make sculpturs), religion is part of culture, sports, and stories and legends are part of culture.

You can't say that one type of music is inferior to another because it's an opinion.

You can say that a gun will kill you more effectivley than a spear.

You can say that men on horses with guns are better than men running with spears (not neccassarily there could be an upset but generally)

Medication, weapons. THose can be measuered in effectiveness

but how the hell can you measure the effectiveness of music? Or art?

It's impossible.

Culture isn't just technology.

Right... culture is how much effort is put into defining your ethnic group, technology can help this, Romans had less culture than the greeks because they had spent almost NO time developing their own culture, they just copied others, and not even very originally. Certainly there are exceptions but usually the most technologically advanced has the higher culture. Eg. An ant colony has some culture but they have almost no technology. Without certain technology they cannot expand their culture into something like human. The africans didn't have certain technologies needed to develop their culture. They didn't improve on their art over time as the europeans did (I'm not positive and I'm sure it can be tested and proven though, we can't really know for sure, the africans didn't really record their history except in arab influenced areas).

And about the example of computers and trailer trash man, yeah, you have higher culture probably, Cultural boundries for races doesn't exist anymore because of all the equality now, but back when blacks were either slaves or living in africa it could pretty much be said, whites were superior, its harder to tell now.

The europeans thought that china must be thousands of years ahead in culture when marco polo came back with goods like silk, and they were ahead, just not thousands of years. The europeans wanted to be like the chiniese, and made clocks, and traded with arabs for silks from china. Evantually by adding their own touch the imported chiniese culture became their own when they used silks in different ways and altering clocks to be more original.

The chiniese were ahead technologically and culturally. Technology goes hand in hand with culture usually. The aztecs had much higher culture than the apaches. The germanic tribes had less culture than the romans.

Sometimes it can become opinion, I think the music example was good. But we can all say that bands later in their career have improved (usually) and sound better. The africans never improved, the africans never sounded better.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 3:47 am on Oct. 12, 2002

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 3:32 am on Oct. 12, 2002

it's nto a fact unless you can prove it.

You can't have a superior culture.

You can be superior through technology which the Europeans were I'm not disagreeing but that is only one aspect of culture.

However that was back when people weren't connected.

Guess what teh white race isn't superior.

i'm black, my family has three computers.

Does this make me superior to some trailer trash white guy in a mobile home who has to drink well water?

Because i have better technology?

That doesn't make my race superior.

You put to much imphasis on technology.

Not to mention what the Europeans did was savage. It was horrible. THey killed, raped, and enslaved.

Thats horrible.

Because something is human nature doesn't mean that it's okay to act on it.

When your angry it's human nature to hit the person your angry at...does that mean I should go around punchng people?

You can't measure culture.

Your right they didn't have the technology that the Europeans had

they didn't have the weapons

but you ccan't have an inferior culture.

Certain aspects of culture can be...but to say that the culture as a whole is is bullshit.

Music is part of culture, art is part of culture (they did make sculpturs), religion is part of culture, sports, and stories and legends are part of culture.

You can't say that one type of music is inferior to another because it's an opinion.

You can say that a gun will kill you more effectivley than a spear.

You can say that men on horses with guns are better than men running with spears (not neccassarily there could be an upset but generally)

Medication, weapons. THose can be measuered in effectiveness

but how the hell can you measure the effectiveness of music? Or art?

It's impossible.

Culture isn't just technology.

Right... culture is how much effort is put into defining your ethnic group, technology can help this, Romans had less culture than the greeks because they had spent almost NO time developing their own culture, they just copied others, and not even very originally. Certainly there are exceptions but usually the most technologically advanced has the higher culture. Eg. An ant colony has some culture but they have almost no technology. Without certain technology they cannot expand their culture into something like human. The africans didn't have certain technologies needed to develop their culture. They didn't improve on their art over time as the europeans did (I'm not positive and I'm sure it can be tested and proven though, we can't really know for sure, the africans didn't really record their history except in arab influenced areas).

And about the example of computers and trailer trash man, yeah, you have higher culture probably, Cultural boundries for races doesn't exist anymore because of all the equality now, but back when blacks were either slaves or living in africa it could pretty much be said, whites were superior, its harder to tell now.

The europeans thought that china must be thousands of years ahead in culture when marco polo came back with goods like silk, and they were ahead, just not thousands of years. The europeans wanted to be like the chiniese, and made clocks, and traded with arabs for silks from china. Evantually by adding their own touch the imported chiniese culture became their own when they used silks in different ways and altering clocks to be more original.

The chiniese were ahead technologically and culturally. Technology goes hand in hand with culture usually. The aztecs had much higher culture than the apaches. The germanic tribes had less culture than the romans.

Sometimes it can become opinion, I think the music example was good. But we can all say that bands later in their career have improved (usually) and sound better. The africans never improved, the africans never sounded better.




saying that they didn't improve is once again a matter of opinion. To someone who likes tribal music they could go against what you said.

I agree that technology can improve a culture, however it's only one teh basis of technology.

THink INdia was never as technologicaly advanced as Europe however during the axial age there philosophical and theological beliefs and contemplations were equal of that of the other key areas during the axial age (middle east, medditeranian, china)

What i'm trying to say that culture can't be defined as technology cuz they aren't the same

also the only reason the Europeans were able to benefiet from the Chinese technology was because they were exposed to it.

The Europeans couldn't have done it on their own and if they did it would have been a long while later.

African tribes were isolated from the rest of the world.

Grdually Islamic culture spread though it only made it to the Gambia not south african regions and not alot of East Africa.

Only the religion and parts of the culture reached them.

Every culture is some way indirectly or directly effected by another culture

The Greeks by that of Mesopotamia

The Romans by the Greeks

evolving European culture by the romans

So in reality i wasn't the African's fault that they weren't as advanced technologicaly because developing cultures are effected by other cultures.


African tribes didn't have the benefiet of this neither did native american tribes they were isolated.

The Europeans were only advanced because of who they came in contact with

[PaulDavidHewson]

marco polo?

He is hardly considered creditable source.
It is believed that he is a fraud. He wrote his travel report when he was in jail. It is believed he copied all the information from other sources.

[Solzhenitsyn]

Lardlad,

The Europeans didn't do anything themselves? Secondly, the only thing significant that the Europeans brought back from China was gunpowder and noodles.
Silk had been produced in the eastern Mediterranean since Justianian's time. It was solely through Euro ingenuity and creativity that they harnessed gunpowder to pursue their favorite past time - war.

You're correct that the African tribes were geographically isolated by the Sahara desert.

Also, the "superiority" of the Islamic culture is a myth. Whatever special knowledge they had was bastardized from contact with the Byzantines until the sack of Constantinople in 1204. Then, they reigned supreme until the early 1500s.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Solzhenitsyn on 12:15 pm on Oct. 12, 2002
Lardlad,

The Europeans didn't do anything themselves? Secondly, the only thing significant that the Europeans brought back from China was gunpowder and noodles.
Silk had been produced in the eastern Mediterranean since Justianian's time. It was solely through Euro ingenuity and creativity that they harnessed gunpowder to pursue their favorite past time - war.

You're correct that the African tribes were geographically isolated by the Sahara desert.

Also, the "superiority" of the Islamic culture is a myth. Whatever special knowledge they had was bastardized from contact with the Byzantines until the sack of Constantinople in 1204. Then, they reigned supreme until the early 1500s.


Not what I meant I mean theat they had the benefiet of being in contact with other cultures so they picked knowledge up as well as distributed some.

I never meant they never did anytthing themselves every culture develops some things them selves other wise there would be no culture to begin with.


And your right I mean after teh Islamic empires started conquering land.

They did bring alot of influenece to Europe especially places like spain.

Also Islamic Empires lost alot of influence when the mongols started conquering.

Infact The mongols indirectly effected America if they hadn't turned back because their leader died we wouldn't be at this computer because mroe than likely Europe would be a graveyard

[Sulla the Dictator]

LOL It is not necissary to BASH one people in order to support another, you know.

I myself am a believer in racial and ethnic equality, and do not find it necissary to BASH or subtract from European accomplishments in order to express my support for said equality.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Sulla the Dictator on 1:58 am on Oct. 13, 2002
LOL It is not necissary to BASH one people in order to support another, you know.

I myself am a believer in racial and ethnic equality, and do not find it necissary to BASH or subtract from European accomplishments in order to express my support for said equality.

how is it bashing?

if I said the Europeans stole all their inventions...that would be bashing

i said they were influenced..or atleast meant it

[Solzhenitsyn]

Lardlad,

It's not neccessarily the Mongols who brought about the decline of the Muslims. The Ottoman Empire expanded too quickly for their own good and left themselves open to the Russians and Austrians. Their most populous areas were dominated by ethnic groups that hated them (Greeks, Serbs, Croats, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Egyptians and Berbers). Keeping all those groups in check drained the Sultan's treasury in a hurry. The "sick man of Europe" never did anything of importance, except decline and fuck up the Balkans with their brutality, after 1650.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Solzhenitsyn on 2:02 am on Oct. 13, 2002
Lardlad,

It's not neccessarily the Mongols who brought about the decline of the Muslims. The Ottoman Empire expanded too quickly for their own good and left themselves open to the Russians and Austrians. Their most populous areas were dominated by ethnic groups that hated them (Greeks, Serbs, Croats, Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Egyptians and Berbers). Keeping all those groups in check drained the Sultan's treasury in a hurry. The "sick man of Europe" never did anything of importance, except decline and fuck up the Balkans with their brutality, after 1650.

Ok i'll give you that but it wasn't like mongol raids did a whole lot to help it

of course resentment from the people under their control led to it's decline

but the mongols sped it up

[Guest]

The ottoman empire was strongest AFTER the mongol invasions. The mongols -helped- the turks more than hindered, by getting eastern europes attention on them rather than the seljuks.

It was a LONG time after the genghis khan died that the ottomans invaded europe and marched all the way to belgrade before being stopped, and then tried again and got a little farther before austrians with superior weapons and tactics, slaughtered them and drove them back.

And hey, while we're talking history, the ottomans also managed to hold most of the middle east, north africa, and south east europe, and it wasn't until early 20th century before they became the sick man of europe. Mongols didn't hinder islam as a whole either! Espcially since a large number of mongol warlords became moslem. The only -real- permenant effect the mongols had on the world was how they conqueored half of asia, they didn't little else, the culture in areas apart from mongolia was not mongolian, the people had no loyalty to mongolia, and its stupid to give them so much credit that they do not deserve.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 4:46 am on Oct. 13, 2002
The ottoman empire was strongest AFTER the mongol invasions. The mongols -helped- the turks more than hindered, by getting eastern europes attention on them rather than the seljuks.

It was a LONG time after the genghis khan died that the ottomans invaded europe and marched all the way to belgrade before being stopped, and then tried again and got a little farther before austrians with superior weapons and tactics, slaughtered them and drove them back.

And hey, while we're talking history, the ottomans also managed to hold most of the middle east, north africa, and south east europe, and it wasn't until early 20th century before they became the sick man of europe. Mongols didn't hinder islam as a whole either! Espcially since a large number of mongol warlords became moslem. The only -real- permenant effect the mongols had on the world was how they conqueored half of asia, they didn't little else, the culture in areas apart from mongolia was not mongolian, the people had no loyalty to mongolia, and its stupid to give them so much credit that they do not deserve.

It was more of an effect on the economy

read "What If" the book on what might have happened if Military conquests had gone differently it explains what I mean in there though it focuses more on what would ahve happened to Europe in the Mongolian section

[suffianr]

Islamic history lessons, as taught by Imams in schools in Malaysia, places great emphasis on the fact that the fall of the Ottoman Empire was caused by largely internal factors; in-fighting between the ethnic Muslims, loss of central power, weakened leadership structures and a return to Assabiyah (nationalism, tribalism and partisanship), and an institutional loss of faith.

External colonization and conquest, secularism and the intrusion of the West were inevitable, although not inconsequential. Islam could defend it's borders against imperialists, but it couldn't, at the time, defend it's internal structures from disunity and disarray...

Don't over-glorify the role of Western Orientalists and Imperialism. They didn't destroy the Ottomans. They contributed to its demise, but ultimately, the Ottomans destroyed themselves.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from suffianr on 5:43 am on Oct. 14, 2002
Islamic history lessons, as taught by Imams in schools in Malaysia, places great emphasis on the fact that the fall of the Ottoman Empire was caused by largely internal factors; in-fighting between the ethnic Muslims, loss of central power, weakened leadership structures and a return to Assabiyah (nationalism, tribalism and partisanship), and an institutional loss of faith.

External colonization and conquest, secularism and the intrusion of the West were inevitable, although not inconsequential. Islam could defend it's borders against imperialists, but it couldn't, at the time, defend it's internal structures from disunity and disarray...

Don't over-glorify the role of Western Orientalists and Imperialism. They didn't destroy the Ottomans. They contributed to its demise, but ultimately, the Ottomans destroyed themselves.


all of that plays into the dynastic cycle of empires.

No one part is more important than the other

[Guest]

damn you crazy idiot hippie....go fuck a tree or something. No matter what anyone does you will be dead before the earth goes to shit so dont worry about it. You waste your breath in pointless crap. So what if the native americans were enviromentally friendly. They were barbaric. i am party native american and do not have any hard feelings about anything it is done and over with. Same with African americans who feel whites owe them something. We dont. Slavery is gone and they should be happy. If anything they should be grateful to their ancestors for being sold to the ship captains who inturn sold them in america. THis popular tale that they were clubbed over the head and kidnapped to america is totally false. most of the slaves were slaves in africa and just got a better live in america as slaves. You can believe the crap that public schooling shovels down your throat and what makes it into popular history books but it is far from accurate.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 6:43 am on Nov. 5, 2002
damn you crazy idiot hippie....go fuck a tree or something. No matter what anyone does you will be dead before the earth goes to shit so dont worry about it. You waste your breath in pointless crap. So what if the native americans were enviromentally friendly. They were barbaric. i am party native american and do not have any hard feelings about anything it is done and over with. Same with African americans who feel whites owe them something. We dont. Slavery is gone and they should be happy. If anything they should be grateful to their ancestors for being sold to the ship captains who inturn sold them in america. THis popular tale that they were clubbed over the head and kidnapped to america is totally false. most of the slaves were slaves in africa and just got a better live in america as slaves. You can believe the crap that public schooling shovels down your throat and what makes it into popular history books but it is far from accurate.

Have you read and records written by slaves about what actually went on? Read them, please

you act as if they wanted to go or something.

You know little if anything about slavery and are basing this all on what?

Where you there? No, but there are more documents going against what you are saying than supporting it.

Second the slave system in Africa was different from the ones in america.

The slaves eventaully would gain freedom and often married into their masters family.

I wish you could be a slave for a week and see if you are singing a different tune.

I don't think white people owe me something, I just really dislike moronic people that act like slavery was fun for black people.

[Guest]

I just want to post real quick to point out that the thine stalin guest didn't post that or he would've used better grammer and his IP start with 67, so I want to tell you all before I get blame for shit again.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Guest on 1:35 am on Nov. 6, 2002
I just want to post real quick to point out that the thine stalin guest didn't post that or he would've used better grammer and his IP start with 67, so I want to tell you all before I get blame for shit again.

oh ok

never sure with guests...guess tehy are to scared to join

no offense

[captain anarchy]

america is not free and it is not run by one government. you have fcist cops, socilist polititions as well as the capitalist, you have the ones who believe in communism. i think america is confused.

[Kehoe]

captain anarchy ... your grasp of the American political situation is truly astounding ... have you ever considered writing a book? ... sarcasm should be duly noted.

[captain anarchy]

i did write a book it was not about politics though. i hate politics.

[Tkinter1]

What was your book about?

[canikickit]

Punctuation.