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new democracy
16th August 2002, 00:54
do you know what happen beetwin 1,978-1,984 in gutamela? the army start kiling indians!!! and you know what kind of guns did he have? the american m-16!!!! when the genocide start carter stop giving them wepons but it was to late!!! dont you cappis think that the u.$ has some(or allot) responsability? james, i apologise your avatar is sooooo right!!! well here is an article about it from the revoultionary worker:

Guatemala: Bones Tell Story of U.S.-Backed Massacres
Revolutionary Worker #912, June 22, 1997

In many places in Guatemala, archaeologists and anthropologists are digging up the earth and uncovering the past. But these scientists are not looking for artifacts from the Mayan communities of many centuries ago. They are digging up bones that tell of the horrors that the people of Guatemala suffered over the past several decades. The excavations are unearthing secret graves containing the remains of the victims of mass murders carried out by Guatemala's U.S.-backed military and death squads.

One such excavation site is at the village of San Martin Jilotepeque in central Guatemala, where many people "disappeared" in the 1980s after being stopped at a military checkpoint. According to recent news reports, 35 skeletons have already been discovered from a well that the scientists are excavating. Freddy Peccerelli, an official of the Guatemalan Foundation for Forensic Anthropology which is overseeing the digging, said: "Local people tell us this well could be as much as 100 feet deep, and our team hasn't dug down even a quarter of that distance. So we are not going to know for certain how many bodies are in there until we get to the bottom."

The bones are brought to a makeshift morgue so that people can try to identify the remains of relatives missing since they were taken away by the military or simply disappeared many years ago. The Miami Herald reported on the scene at the morgue on a recent day, when about a dozen women had come to search for the remains of their husbands: "Rifling through the plastic bags containing fractured skulls and tattered clothing, the women cried when they recognized the shirt or sandals worn by their husbands on the day they disappeared."

Another digging site is at the village of Agua Fría about 100 miles northwest of Guatemala City. Last February, forensic scientists uncovered the bones of 167 Quiche Indian men, women and children there. These were all that remained of the population of an entire village wiped out by the Guatemalan army. According to those who saw the massacre, the government troops attacked the village, killed the people and set fire to the bodies in a mass grave. One scientist said, "From a forensic point of view it will be very difficult to identify the victims because the army burnt the bodies."

Agua Fría was one of more than 400 Indian villages completely destroyed by the government's armed forces during the early 1980s.

At Rio Negro, in central Guatemala, the remains of more than 100 children and 80 women were found. In the Petén jungle in north Guatemala, scientists have dug up skeletons with unmistakable signs of torture--their hands and feet were tied behind their backs with rope, which also wound tightly around their necks.

The scientists say that whenever they start digging at a particular location, the local people approach them and point out several other mass graves nearby that need to be excavated. Fernando Moscoso Moller, the director of the Foundation for Forensic Anthropology, said, "People have estimated that there are 400 of these clandestine cemeteries spread all over the country, but that is absurd. There are many, many more than that, the result of a systematic policy of extermination."

More than 150,000 people have been killed by Guatemala's military and death squads in the past four decades. The skeletons now being dug up give stark testimony to the long and gruesome record of U.S.-backed murders in Guatemala.

U.S. Coups and Death Squads
U.S. imperialist presence in Guatemala dates back to 1906 when the United Fruit Company grabbed 170,000 acres of the best farmland. By the 1930s, United Fruit Company was the biggest landowner in Guatemala. The Guatemalan government gave United Fruit all kinds of concessions--such as tax exemptions and guarantees of low wages--that allowed the company to make enormous profits.

In 1954 a bourgeois nationalist government headed by Jacobo Arbenz began carrying out some reforms, including taking over some of the unused land held by United Fruit and distributing it to peasants. The U.S. immediately engineered a coup to overthrow Arbenz and replace him with Colonel Carlos Castillos Armas, who was trained at the U.S. Command and General Staff School in Fort Leavenworth. The CIA coup began a wave of reactionary violence--thousands of people were arrested and many tortured, and large tracts of land were given back to United Fruit and other big landowners.

After the coup, anti-government guerrillas began operating in the mountains. The Pentagon set up a counterinsurgency base, and the Green Berets trained Guatemalan officers. By the late 1960s as many as 1,000 U.S. Special Forces were taking part in a massive counterinsurgency. The Guatemalan military carried out "search and destroy" missions, rounding up villagers and sending them to concentration camps. These and other tactics were borrowed directly from the war that the U.S. was carrying out at the same time against liberation forces in Vietnam.

The notorious White Hand and other death squads made their appearance around this time. The U.S. had a clear hand in this development. Colonel Webber, the head of the U.S. military mission in Guatemala, said that he had urged the Guatemalan military to adopt "the technique of counter-terror." The death squads were a key part of this "counter-terror." Agents working out of the U.S. embassy advised and trained a Guatemalan army unit known as G-2--which carried out torture and assassinations and dumped bodies in secret graves.

Colonel Carlos Arana Osorio, the man hand-picked by the U.S. to head the vicious counterinsurgency in the late 1960s, became known as the "Butcher of Zacapa." In 1970 he became the president of Guatemala. Arana said, "If it is necessary to turn the country into a cemetery in order to pacify it, I will not hesitate to do so."

In 1982 the "born-again" Christian fascist General Ríos Montt came into power. He was the military chief of staff during the Arana regime and was personally responsible for the massacres of many villages. Ríos Montt announced on TV that he was ordered by "my god" to head up the new military junta. His real "god" was in Washington, D.C. The Reagan administration told Ríos Montt that it was looking forward to a "friendly and fruitful" relationship.

With this blessing, the Guatemalan military and death squads embarked on a new frenzy of mass murder in the countryside. Ríos Montt carried out a U.S.-directed "pacification" strategy known as "beans and rifles." One component was the distribution of food to those who collaborated with the military. A Guatemalan military officer explained, "If you are with us, we'll feed you. If not, we'll kill you." The other component was the conscripting of peasants into "civil defense patrols"--which served as village snitches and shields for the government troops in battles with guerrillas.

Still Seeking Justice
In December 1996 the Guatemalan government and the Guatemalan National Revolutionary Unity (URNG) signed an agreement to stop the war. The URNG was formed in 1980 from a merger of several armed groups. The peace agreement is being promoted in some quarters as a "new beginning" in Guatemala. But the agreement will not bring a fundamental change in the power relations in Guatemala. It does not change the situation where a small class of exploiters and oppressors, backed by U.S. imperialism, controls the politics and economics of society--and where nine out of ten peasant families have too little land to grow enough food to survive on.

Nor does the agreement bring full justice to the many victims of the brutal U.S.-backed criminals. Under the agreement, a "truth commission" is supposed to look into human rights abuses committed during the civil war. But the commission has no power to take any action--or even to name individual government and military officials responsible for the crimes.

The uncovering of the mass graves is a huge task--but the scientists and others carrying out the excavations are getting little funding from the government and must scramble for funds. Freddy Peccerelli from the Foundation for Forensic Anthropology said, "At the rate things are going, we have enough work to keep us busy for the next 100 years. There is no way of telling when this is ever going to end."

In San Andrés Sajcabajá, 38-year-old María Chach Ujer is one of the villagers watching anxiously as bones are dug up. She last saw her husband in 1982 when he and five others were taken away by members of a civil defense patrol. She said bitterly, "It's not fair that my children have had to go hungry and grow up without their father and that I have had to leave them and go to the coast to work in the harvest to make the money to keep us alive.

"We have suffered, while the men who killed him laugh in my face when we pass on the street, and sit in their fine houses with their wives and children, enjoying their soup and drinking their milk."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This article is posted in English and Spanish on Revolutionary Worker Online
http://rwor.org
Write: Box 3486, Merchandise Mart, Chicago, IL 60654
Phone: 773-227-4066 Fax: 773-227-4497
(The RW Online does not currently communicate via email.)

Guest
17th August 2002, 05:46
The AK 47 was Russian made and under Russia's period under COMMUNISM!!!! It was and is used widly in terrorist attacks for its cheap price and becuase it is readly availible. Don't you think Russia has some(or allot) responsability? You know you right though, whenever something goes wrong lets just throw it onto the USA becuase we love to kill and massacre.

"U.S. Coups and Death Squads"
I LOVE these terms!!!

"At Rio Negro, in central Guatemala, the remains of more than 100 children and 80 women were found."

Must of been some sort of death squad or american imperalist fruit farmers out to get children and women.

"Agents working out of the U.S. embassy advised and trained a Guatemalan army unit known as G-2--which carried out torture and assassinations and dumped bodies in secret graves."

Yea that happend. Why are you such a dumbass?

Tkinter1
17th August 2002, 05:49
The AK 47 was Russian made during Russia's period under............ COMMUNISM!!!! It was and is used widly in terrorist attacks for its cheap price and becuase it is readly availible. Don't you think Russia has some(or allot) responsability? You know you right though, whenever something goes wrong lets just throw it onto the USA becuase we love to kill and massacre.

"U.S. Coups and Death Squads"
I LOVE these terms!!!

"At Rio Negro, in central Guatemala, the remains of more than 100 children and 80 women were found."

Must of been some sort of death squad or american imperalist fruit farmers out to get children and women.

"Agents working out of the U.S. embassy advised and trained a Guatemalan army unit known as G-2--which carried out torture and assassinations and dumped bodies in secret graves."

Yea that happend. Why are you such a dumbass?

new democracy
17th August 2002, 05:54
i dont like soviet union!!!! soviet union has allot of responsability just like the u.s in gutamela!!!!

Nateddi
17th August 2002, 05:56
>>""U.S. Coups and Death Squads" .... Yea that happend. Why are you such a dumbass?

I hate to break your jolly premise, but that did in fact happen.

if you are in denial go research about it yourself, don't just laugh it off.

(Edited by Nateddi at 5:57 am on Aug. 17, 2002)

Tkinter1
17th August 2002, 06:10
is that all you could respond too?

I like how you adjusted my quotes to make them say something different.

All i said was i loved the term 'death squad'

"Agents working out of the U.S. embassy advised and trained a Guatemalan army unit known as G-2--which carried out torture and assassinations and dumped bodies in secret graves."

As if we said, heres guns heres ammo. Now gather round as we tell you how to torture your people and hide the bodies. It all makes sense!


(Edited by Tkinter1 at 6:12 am on Aug. 17, 2002)


(Edited by Tkinter1 at 6:14 am on Aug. 17, 2002)

Nateddi
17th August 2002, 08:00
>> I like how you adjusted my quotes to make them say something different.
I was paraphrasing what you said, and how you dismissed what is being written as a complete fallacy.

Now lets discuss the mysterious thing made up by the left in this whole "Guatemala" holohoax.

In March 1962, thousands of demonstrators took to the streets in protest against the economic policies, the deep-rooted corruption, and the electoral fraud of the government of General Miguel Ydigoras Fuentes. Initiated by students, the demonstrations soon picked up support from worker and peasant groups. In May, the US established a base designed specifically for counter-insurgency training. The staff of the base was of 15 Guatemalan officers trained in counter-insurgency at the US School of the Americas at Fort Gulick in the Panama Canal Zone.

At first, of course, the United States would attempt to win the “hearts and minds” of these guerrilla fighters as in Vietnam. As these events were to materialize, the attempt at "winning the hearts and minds" of the peasants and guerrillas proved to be as futile in Guatemala as well. When all the suggestions on methods were in, the winning the hearts and minds method was flawed, and all the counter-insurgency studies were said and done, the recourse was to terror: unadulterated, dependable terror. Guerrillas, peasants, students, labor leaders, and professional people were jailed or killed by the hundreds to put a halt.
from Bitter Fruit: The Untold Story of the American Coup in Guatemala (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0674075900/austincommunitan/102-0060952-1780108)

In March 1963, General Ydigoras, who had been elected in 1958 for a six-year term, was overthrown in a coup by Col. Enrique Azurdia.
"Top sources within the Kennedy administration have revealed the U.S. instigated and supported the 1963 coup." – Georgie Anne Geyer (http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/aroundthetable/geyer.html), Veteran Latin America Correspondent.

Ydigoras was planning to step down in 1964, thus leaving the door open to an election and, the Guatemalan army, Washington, including President Kennedy personally,
believed that a free election would reinstate Arévalo (a previously overthrown leader favoring land reform and nationalizing of land) to power in a government bent upon the same kind independent foreign policy that had led the United States to overthrow Arbenz in the first place. (Miami Herald, 24 December 1966)

The tone of the Peralta administration was characterized by one of its first acts: the murder of eight political and trade union leaders, accomplished by driving over them with rock-laden trucks.
Galeado – Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0853459916/qid=1029565249/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-0060952-1780108)

Unfortunately for the US, Peralta turned out to be somewhat of a nationalist who resented the excessive influence of the United States in Guatemala, particularly in his own sphere, the military. He refused American offers of Green Beret troops trained in guerrilla warfare to fight the rebels. Thus it was that the United States gave its clear and firm backing to a civilian, one Julio Mendez, in the election held in March 1966. He won what passes for an election in Guatemala and granted the Americans the free hand they had been waiting for.

Freely doing so, after Mendez seized power, US Col. John D. Webber, Jr. arrived in Guatemala to take command of the American military mission.
” Webber immediately expanded counterinsurgency training within Guatemala's 5,000-man army, brought in U.S. Jeeps, trucks, communications equipment and helicopters to give the army more firepower and mobility, and breathed new life into the army's civic-action program. Towards the end of 1966 the army was able to launch a major drive against the guerrilla strongholds ... To aid in the drive, the army also hired and armed local bands of "civilian collaborators" licensed to kill peasants whom they considered guerrillas or "potential" guerrillas. There were those who doubted the wisdom of encouraging such measures in violence-prone Guatemala, but Webber was not among them. "That's the way this country is," he said. "The communists are using everything they have including terror. And it must be met.” - Time, 1/26/68

There was never any comparison between the two sides as to the quantity and cruelty
of their terror, as well as in the choice of targets.

In the period October 1966 to March 1968, Amnesty International estimated, somewhere between 3,000 and 8,000 Guatemalans were killed by the police, the military, right-wing
"death squads". By 1972, the number of their victims was estimated at 13,000. 1976, the count exceeded 20,000, murdered or disappeared without a trace. Anyone suspected of aiding or sympathizing with the guerrillas, an suspicion caused by something as simple as organizing a union, would be dragged away and tortured.

”One method of torture consisted of putting a hood filled with insecticide over the head of the victim; there was also electric shock -- to the genital area is the most effective; in
those days it was administered by using military field telephones hooked up to small generators; the United States supplied the equipment and the instructions for use to several countries, including South Vietnam where the large-scale counter-insurgency
operation was producing new methods and devices for extracting information from uncooperative prisoners; some of these techniques were finding their way to Latin America”
- Langguth, ”Hidden Terrors” (http://www.pir.org/sources/AO.html)

One of the death squads, Mano Blanca (White Hand), sent a death warning to a student leader.
I went alone to visit the head of the Mano Blanca and asked him why he was going to kill this lad. At first he denied sending the letter, but after a bit of discussion with him and his first assistant, the assistant said, "Well, I know he's a Communist and so we're going to kill him."
"How do you know?" I asked.
He said, "I know he's a Communist because I heard him say he would give his life for the poor”
- Blase Bonpane (former American Maryknoll priest) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1888996250/qid=1029567326/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-0060952-1780108)

There is a good deal more on this, however I am tired to look for it. Here are some more quotes I’ve found.

---

“Indians tell harrowing stories of village raids in which their homes have been burned, men tortured hideously and killed, women raped, and scarce crops destroyed. It is Guatemala's final solution to insurgency: only mass slaughter of the Indians will prevent them joining a mass uprising.”
- The Guardian (London), 22 December 1983, p. 5.

”Why should we be worried about the death squads? They're bumping off the commies, our enemies. I'd give them more power. Hell, I'd get some cartridges if I could, and everyone else would too ... Why should we criticize them? The death squad -- I'm for it ... Shit! There's no question, we can't wait 'til Reaganets in. We hope Carter falls in the ocean real quick ... We all feel that he [Reagan] is our saviour.”
- Testimony of Fred Sherwood (CIA pilot during the overthrow of the
Arbenz government in 1954 who settled in Guatemala and became president of the American Chamber of Commerce), speaking in Guatemala, September 1980

The Movement for National Liberation (MLN) was a prominent political party. It was the principal party in the Arana regime. An excerpt from a radio broadcast in 1980 by the head of the party, Mario Sandoval Alarcon …
“I admit that the MLN is the party of organized violence. Organized violence is vigor, just as organized color is scenery and organized sound is harmony. There is nothing wrong with organized violence; it is vigor, and the MLN is a vigorous movement.”

Testimony of an Indian woman:
” My name is Rigoberta Menchú Tum. I am a representative of the "Vincente Menchú" [her father] Revolutionary Christians ... On 9 December 1979, my 16-year-old brother Patrocino was captured and tortured for several days and then taken with twenty other young men to the square in Chajul ... An officer of [President] Lucas Garcia's army of murderers ordered the prisoners to be paraded in a line. Then he started to insult and threaten the inhabitants of the village, who were forced to come out of their houses to witness the event. I was with my mother, and we saw Patrocino; he had had his tongue cut out and his toes cut off. The officer jackal made a speech. Every time he paused the soldiers beat the Indian prisoners.
When he finished his ranting, the bodies of my brother and the other prisoners were swollen, bloody, unrecognizable. It was monstrous, but they were still alive.They were thrown on the ground and drenched with gasoline. The soldiers set fire to the wretched bodies with torches and the captain laughed like a hyena and forced the inhabitants of Chajul to watch. This was his objective -- that they should be terrified and witness the punishment given to the "guerrillas"

She would receive the Nobel Peace Prize in 1992.

” The Guatemalan revolution is entering its third decade. Ever since the government of Jacobo Arbenz was overthrown in 1954, the majority of the Guatemalan people have been seeking a way to move the country towards solving the same problems which were present then and have only worsened over time.
The counterrevolution, put in motion by the U.S. Government and those domestic sectors committed to retaining every single one of their privileges, dispersed and disorganized the popular and democratic forces. However, it did not resolve any of the problems which had first given rise to demands for economic, social and political change. These demands have been raised again and again in the last quarter century, by any means that seemed appropriate at the time, and have received each time the same repressive response as in 1954”
- Statement by the Guatemalan Army of the Poor, made in 1981 (by which time the toll of people murdered by the government since 1954 had reached at least the 60,000 mark, and the sons of one-time death-squad members were now killing the sons of the Indians killed by their fathers)

Nateddi
17th August 2002, 12:22
tkinter1 obviously at heart condemns such brutal action and policy. I presume so because he denied the US involvement as soon as he heard such accusations. Educated right-wingers would attempt to justify such actions as "preserving democracy" or "stability" or 'preventing the cancerous spread of communism', or other bullshit scapegoat for excruciate. The fact that tkinter denied such accusations and passed them off as leftist propaganda means he truly condemns them, because in his opinion there is no reason to justify them.