Emos

[razboz]

Alright a bit of background first:

I live in Mexico. Down here emos get a lot of crap. A couple of months ago a bunch of them got beat up really bad in a city called Queretaro. This got on the news and everyone was outraged and so on. What didnt get on the news is that this has been going on for over a year now. "Punkers", "goths" and "rockers" (and i realise these are absolutely arbitrary separations) have been beating up emos on a monthly basis, especially here in Mexico city. about 95% of the population couldnt give a shit about what happens to emos or simply dont know about this. Im not an "emo" or even close, so i havent experienced first hand most of this, but i do know people who walk around with baseball bats, or peper spray or died their hair blonde and walk about in baggy clohtes so as not to get beaten up.

Now my question to you is: considering being part of the emo trend is a choice how bad is the discrimination and violence direct at this group? The discrimination has been compared to that exprienced by the Jews (admitedly at another time and in another place), or homosexuals. However neither of these is a fashion choice. being emo is not a culture or a tribe (as defined by the sociology and anthropology departments of the UNAM, the national univesity) it is simply a way of dressing and a style of music associated to it. should this discrimination be treated differently to that experienced by women, gays, discapcitated people, minority ethnic groups, endangered cultures etc?

[Pawn Power]

If one is beaten up because of one dresses, choice or not, its discrimination.

It is different then say, that against racially oppressed groups which have been historically discriminated against by strucutral means as well as racist individuals.

As I understood it though, this violence against emos was related to homophobia, no?

[razboz]

If one is beaten up because of one dresses, choice or not, its discrimination.

It is different then say, that against racially oppressed groups which have been historically discriminated against by strucutral means as well as racist individuals.

As I understood it though, this violence against emos was related to homophobia, no?

it was plain garden-variety homophobia at first, but it's taken a whole life of it's own now. not even homosexuals are treated as bad as emos now, and gays used to be all the way at the bottom of the social food chain.

And i am sure it's discrimination, but my dillemma remains: how does this discrimination compare to that experienced by groups who cant chose their belonging to that group? we're looking at an entire society rejecting this trend. also i've heard the opinion voiced (by otherwise good comrades) that their acceptance within society can only be gained by blood and violence, and to be recognised they should fight (literally) for their rights.

[F9]

Yes its a descrimination.You cant beat up some kids because they choose to dress different and get a lot of piercings.Even i found really strange this emo "fashion" and some emo's are very hepocritical, thats a tottal descrimination beating all of them because they choose to dress different and act in their own way.

Fuserg9:star:

[black magick hustla]

Man I am living in Mexico, and I was driving through town when I saw like hundreds of emos assembled and one crying and there where also a few cops. I was "holy shit its true" now it has spreaded to my city!

I don't think it is the same as homophobia and racism, after all being emo is a choice. I think its fucking retarded and I always had made fun of them, including all the retarded little subcutltures like punketos, rockeros, or I dont know what chingados, but I guess beating them up for that is going too far!

[Lector Malibu]

I'm gonna say the same thing I said last time this thread came up. Homophobia is defiantly a factor in this.

Furthermore no matter how the emo kids dress , it is their right too.

Personally after seeing the way they have been treated in general I have a lot more respect for them than other sub-cultures.

[Post-Something]

Oh yeah, I saw this in the news somewhere. There was actually a video of like riots, over emos. It was crazy.

[razboz]

Sorry if this already came up at a more opportune time, i was off revleft for a while.

Anyway, the anti-emo thing is not only homophobia. i cant stress that enough.

this is a whole new level. we're talking systematic, society-wide persecution. few if any groups outside of the emo scene are doing or saying anything about it.

[Lector Malibu]

Sorry if this already came up at a more opportune time, i was off revleft for a while.

Anyway, the anti-emo thing is not only homophobia. i cant stress that enough.

this is a whole new level. we're talking systematic, society-wide persecution. few if any groups outside of the emo scene are doing or saying anything about it.


I'd agree with the above. The Emo scene has always been targeted.

[Cencus]

There's always been some aggro between youth cultures, mods n rockers, punks n hippies, skins n just about everyone. When I was in my teens we used to rip the piss outta goths, batter or be battered by the casuals, and laugh at the indy kids. Looking back I just think what a bunch of little shits we were at times. Is the emo bashing we see now any different? I dunno, the pressure to fall in line with macho stereotype is strong as ever I expect and along with the usual pressure to conform and scapegoat the different just makes the emo kid an easy target for bullying.

[Module]

The reason, I think, why emo kids are targeted more than homosexuals is because, as a culture, they glorify effeminate behaviour, and being 'emotional', which people see as worse than homosexuality, because I think they see it as a 'choice', and not something one can't help, that they see it as boys being effeminate and emotional deliberately simply to fit in with the emo sub-culture.
I think that emo-bashing is an outlet for homophobia where you can escape discriminating against gay people simply for being gay.
Instead you discriminate against those who glorify homosexuality, or effeminate behaviour and claim you simply hate 'emos'.

[Mujer Libre]

I think to say that emos are discriminated against more than queer people is rather hyperbolic.

Is being an emo illegal anywhere? Is it punishable by death?

Are emo's relationships not recognised by society? Or are they denied the same benefits that other members of society have?

I definitely think that there is a strong homophobic/sexist slant to the anti-emo feeling out there, but to equate it with systemic, endemic homophobia is disproportionate IMO.

[Module]

I think to say that emos are discriminated against more than queer people is rather hyperbolic.

Is being an emo illegal anywhere? Is it punishable by death?

Are emo's relationships not recognised by society? Or are they denied the same benefits that other members of society have?

I definitely think that there is a strong homophobic/sexist slant to the anti-emo feeling out there, but to equate it with systemic, endemic homophobia is disproportionate IMO.
Yes, of course that's true.
I was going by what razboz said about Mexico, and s/he was talking, I think, specifically about youth culture, and specifically about Mexico. I doubt anybody in here would claim emo kids suffered state repression, but 'in the playground', I imagine, emo kids cop a lot of shit.

I think it's a generally shared feeling here that anti-emo comes from homophobia, and persecution of emo kids comes from the same social attitude persecution of gay people comes from (to an extent) - however, in Sydney, at least, there is more of an opposition to homophobia amongst the younger generations than there is an opposition to being anti-emo, because to a large degree people don't take it as serious discrimination.
And in the national scheme of things it isn't serious discrimination compared to discrimination against gay people, but it is still discrimination nonetheless.

[F9]

sorry for my ignorance about the subject, but to be an emo you have to be a homosexual?In before posts homophobia was said many times?

Fuserg9:star:

[maršal]

You can't abuse anyone just because they're different.I have to be honest,and say that I really hate emo kids.
What do they want?:confused:
I think it's just a phase in they're life,and when they look back at that phase,as they get older,they won't be so proud.
But,like I said,to insult another person,just because he/she dresses/looks/thinks different...it's not wright.:thumbdown:

[Kropotesta]

sorry for my ignorance about the subject, but to be an emo you have to be a homosexual?In before posts homophobia was said many times?

Fuserg9:star:
no you don't have to be gay to a emo.

Seriously though you woulda hoped peeps had better things to do than pick on people. Just really shows how sad they are, rather than macho or whatever they're aspiring to achieve.

[An archist]

It's just kids fighting kids, the subculture thing makes it look a bit more like clanwar, that's it.

[Lector Malibu]

It's just kids fighting kids, the subculture thing makes it look a bit more like clanwar, that's it.

I have to disagree. There's a very large underlying motive of homophobia that is fueling this violence.

This is not just a case of "skins " not liking "punks" or what have you.

[Reuben]

We could play the hierarchy of oppression game, or we could deal with the fact the a particular group of people who make certain reasonable and legitimate cultural choices are being publically ridiculed and physically targetted. The idea that because emo is a choice discrimination against Emo's is not really discrimination, or that such discrimination is not worthy of opposition, is nonsense. As I asked last time this was discussed, if being gay was a choice would queer bashing be ok? Of course it wouldnt!

There may be strong overtones of homophobia with regard to anti-emo feelings and actions. What I believe it has more to do with is a more general ill-feeling towards men who fail to - or choose not to - live up gendered expectations, ie to be 'real men'. The position of such men is of course a particular blind spot for the left (unless a man's rejection of mainstream gendered expectations takes the form of homosexuality).

I get a slight sense that for some people, the question of whether anti-emo behaviour can be connected to homophobia is pivotal to whether or not it represents a genuine and serious form of oppression, and this annoys me slightly. As incredibly serious as racism, sexism and homophobia are, the left needs to wake up to the fact that substantial forms of social oppression exist outside of the big three.

[Segadoway]

its not just homophobia or hating other subxultures this emo thing is really out of hand i believe there was even a day organised worldwide that encouraged people to got out and attack emos and if thye could kill them i think there is something else going on.........

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

its not just homophobia or hating other subxultures this emo thing is really out of hand i believe there was even a day organised worldwide that encouraged people to got out and attack emos and if thye could kill them i think there is something else going on.........

I'd prefer a world wide give a bonehead the boot (to his head) day.

Actually that should be every day.

[Kropotesta]

well there's a mexican anti-emo forum called 'emosexuals' or something along those lines.

[quevivafidel]

Emos still exist? I've never seen one.

Of course, nobody should be discriminated against, but you are "asking for it" if you decide not to follow the norm and dress differently. It's definitely not the same thing as being discriminated against because you're gay or black or Hispanic, because it is a choice. (Nobody is going to tell me an Emo was "born that way"!) Most people, especially young people, aren't very open-minded to what is different.

So, I don't know...on one hand, I think it is very wrong to be beaten up because you dress strangely, but on another, I wonder why they couldn't change their style if it's going to prevent them from getting picked on. I would feel differently if it were some kind of cultural dress they were wearing that they were being made fun of, but since it's a style somebody has recently invented and which they've simply adopted as their own, I don't really understand the prejudice thing. I must admit I'm not very open-minded to any group of people who put so much effort in their appearance, whether it is for looking better or differently.

[razboz]

in response to those who say that this is simply small scale discdrimination by some social groups of others: the discrimination is huge, and trascends age, gender, social status or religion. it really extends throughout society. i mean the people who beat the poor guys up are limited to some subcultural groups, but these are just the soldiers of mexican society. i swear that behind every coward punk, rocker, goth there's 20 mexican middle class respectable families nodding their heads in silent approval.

[Reuben]

Emos still exist? I've never seen one.

Of course, nobody should be discriminated against, but you are "asking for it" if you decide not to follow the norm and dress differently. It's definitely not the same thing as being discriminated against because you're gay or black or Hispanic, because it is a choice. (Nobody is going to tell me an Emo was "born that way"!) Most people, especially young people, aren't very open-minded to what is different.

So, I don't know...on one hand, I think it is very wrong to be beaten up because you dress strangely, but on another, I wonder why they couldn't change their style if it's going to prevent them from getting picked on. I would feel differently if it were some kind of cultural dress they were wearing that they were being made fun of, but since it's a style somebody has recently invented and which they've simply adopted as their own, I don't really understand the prejudice thing. I must admit I'm not very open-minded to any group of people who put so much effort in their appearance, whether it is for looking better or differently.

Go back and read my post. It is a refutation of everything you said.

[Entrails Konfetti]

in response to those who say that this is simply small scale discdrimination by some social groups of others: the discrimination is huge, and trascends age, gender, social status or religion. it really extends throughout society. i mean the people who beat the poor guys up are limited to some subcultural groups, but these are just the soldiers of mexican society. i swear that behind every coward punk, rocker, goth there's 20 mexican middle class respectable families nodding their heads in silent approval.

They probably hope that they all beat eachother up.

[Reuben]

Yep. And you also get people like An Archist - who posted earlier in this thread - who are willing to simply dismiss physical violence against young people as 'just kids fighting kids'. Such an attitude simply wouldnt wash if it was middle aged women taking the beatings.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Quit being a sandwich and say what this all really is, Reuben.

[Reuben]

What do you mean?

[razboz]

Quit being a sandwich and say what this all really is, Reuben.

:confused:

[welshboy]

It doesn't seem all that different to the way punk kids have been treated. i was hospitalized for being a punk when I was younger as well as having all sorts of abuse, much of it homophobic, flung my way.
When I was a kid you just learned to fight or take the beatings. Why do you think punks carry/wear chains?

Maybe it seems more widespread because of the advances in mass communication meaning you get websites like 'emosexual' or whatever.
All in all though it's nothing new. Christ i can remember there being some pretty massive fights when i was a kid with 'townies' wanting to beat on the alternative kids.

Not saying it's right in any way, attacking someone because of their appearance is fucking daft. Just saying it's not new.
I wonder if it's a primitivist plot to stop them from using so much hairspray? :p

[Lector Malibu]

What do you mean?

He's being silly. A Reuben is a popular sandwich made with corned beef , sour kraut, and melted swiss. Delish!

Had a nice one not too long ago on St Paddy's.

Now I'm hungry :lol:

[communard resolution]

There may be strong overtones of homophobia with regard to anti-emo feelings and actions. What I believe it has more to do with is a more general ill-feeling towards men who fail to - or choose not to - live up gendered expectations, ie to be 'real men'. The position of such men is of course a particular blind spot for the left (unless a man's rejection of mainstream gendered expectations takes the form of homosexuality).

I get a slight sense that for some people, the question of whether anti-emo behaviour can be connected to homophobia is pivotal to whether or not it represents a genuine and serious form of oppression, and this annoys me slightly. As incredibly serious as racism, sexism and homophobia are, the left needs to wake up to the fact that substantial forms of social oppression exist outside of the big three.

I second this. I don't think it's got to do with whatever emos may or may not do in the privacy of their bedrooms (I would guess the majority are straight), it's because they appear effeminate. By putting effort into looking pretty, they present themselves as objects rather than subjects, as 'to be looked at'. To be an object is expected from a woman, but not acceptable for a man. I've even met a couple of butch gay men who hated 'queens' with more fervour than the average straight guy does, so it seems to me it has to do with traditional gendered expectations rather than sexual preferences.

Then again, maybe the emos' "fuck me" look gives some straight kids a boner, and they kick the shit out of them "in self-defense"? Who knows.

Homophobic or not, I think it's disgusting to beat up these kids, and the fact that punks have joined in makes me almost feel ashamed of having been a punk rocker myself.

To the 'leftists' who posted replies such as "why don't they just change the way they dress": can hardly believe some people on here have such sentiments. I personally think emos look shit, but that's my problem, and I will defend people's right to look and dress the way to choose to, whether it's a matter of individual expression, just a fashion, or the dress code of a "traditional" culture/religion (which one previous poster deemed somehow more worthy of defending).

[Entrails Konfetti]

Punk and Goth used to have some effiminate styles in it.
I wonder what the deal is.

[Module]

It doesn't seem all that different to the way punk kids have been treated. i was hospitalized for being a punk when I was younger as well as having all sorts of abuse, much of it homophobic, flung my way.
When I was a kid you just learned to fight or take the beatings. Why do you think punks carry/wear chains?
Come ooooonnnnn :D You're telling me punks wear chains so they can defend themselves in a fight?

[Lector Malibu]

Punk and Goth used to have some effiminate styles in it.
I wonder what the deal is.

Actually The early punks , metal scene and even the mods had blatant expressions of non typical gender expectations.

[Module]

even the mods had blatant expressions of non typical gender expectations.
I imagine that's why the Rockers had such a problem with them!
As for the metal scene, that's, and I'm speaking generally, hardly the most socially progressive of sub-cultures.
There is a lot of homophobia within it, specifically found towards power metal and so on ... and misogyny, racism and/or nationalism are the frequent focus of lyrics, in genres like black metal, death metal. Of course that's not to say it's like that across the board, but proportionately ...
The long hair is not some sort of statement against traditional gender expectations, so much as it's just more enjoyable to head bang with.

[Lector Malibu]

I imagine that's why the Rockers had such a problem with them!
As for the metal scene, that's, and I'm speaking generally, hardly the most socially progressive of sub-cultures.
There is a lot of homophobia within it, specifically found towards power metal and so on ... and misogyny, racism and/or nationalism are the frequent focus of lyrics, in genres like black metal, death metal. Of course that's not to say it's like that across the board, but proportionately ...
The long hair is not some sort of statement against traditional gender expectations, so much as it's just more enjoyable to head bang with.

Yes , After typing that I realized I should have focused more in on the glam rock scene.

[bcbm]

As for the metal scene, that's, and I'm speaking generally, hardly the most socially progressive of sub-cultures.
There is a lot of homophobia within it, specifically found towards power metal and so on

Well Metal is an interesting example really, as there is a great deal of homophobia, etc coupled with extremely homo erotic imagery often taken directly from gay culture, not to mention the intense focus on men, male activities, male bonding, etc in a lot of metal lyrics.

[communard resolution]

Well Metal is an interesting example really, as there is a great deal of homophobia, etc coupled with extremely homo erotic imagery often taken directly from gay culture, not to mention the intense focus on men, male activities, male bonding, etc in a lot of metal lyrics.

Same with skinheads and their music. Also lots of hardcore after 1985. Gay energy outlets for 'straight' men?

[communard resolution]

Actually The early punks , metal scene and even the mods had blatant expressions of non typical gender expectations. This applies to some of the very early punks, but then the Sid Vicious 'macho yob' stereotype prevailed because it met with the greatest resonance. The second wave (male) punks were very stereotypically masculine, and that's pretty much how punk culture has remained ever since.

[Jazzratt]

This applies to some of the very early punks, but then the Sid Vicious 'macho yob' stereotype prevailed because it met with the greatest resonance. The second wave (male) punks were very stereotypically masculine, and that's pretty much how punk culture has remained ever since.

Dominant "punk" culture, maybe, but by no means all of the various punk cultures and subcultures.

[Ultra-Violence]

Well i want to hear more about mexican punx and emos but if talked to a cuople and its very simple in their view

mexican punk *thier fucking up our scene thier nothing but bithces who cry all day and cut themsleves while were fucking fighting for fucking freedom and all that bullshit and thier fucking crying over their boy/girl freind. KILL EM! Etc...

mexican emo *i dunno why they hate us, we want to be left alone

^^^^^
thats pretty much what its boils down to with all the kids ive talked to and thier is some homophobia but i think it started with something real simple *EMOS GET THE FUCK OFF! and then turned to something horribly gone wrong to the point were they want to lynch emos!?

how is this situtaion goana get resolved is what i wanna know

[redSHARP]

go into any highschool in the USA and there will be an emo getting his ass kicked (i never saw anything happen to the girls, any one got anything on that?). They are beaten because the look different; plain and simple. of course there is a strain of homophobia mixed in, but the whole thing is based off picking on different cultures/sub-cultures. Answer me this, everytime there was an insult thrown at an emo kid, wasnt gay or faggot involved?

[Ultra-Violence]

^^^^
Yes very much so many times not goana deny that
but its more than just homophobia their is some classism shit going on in this to
now whats a typical emo? a well of middle class kid *****ing about nothin. punx and skins usualy poor working class kids (thiers always rich snobs but eh) see what im saying?

[Peacekeeper]

If one is beaten up because of one dresses, choice or not, its discrimination.

It is different then say, that against racially oppressed groups which have been historically discriminated against by strucutral means as well as racist individuals.

As I understood it though, this violence against emos was related to homophobia, no?

Beating up someone for how they dress is the community enforcing certain social norms - a sort of revolutionary justice. Also - if these emos are homosexuals, they give the rest of us a bad name.

EDIT: Maybe that wasn't too clear: the emos give the rest of us homosexuals a bad name.

[communard resolution]

^^^^
Yes very much so many times not goana deny that
but its more than just homophobia their is some classism shit going on in this to
now whats a typical emo? a well of middle class kid *****ing about nothin. punx and skins usualy poor working class kids (thiers always rich snobs but eh) see what im saying? Wrong. Punks are usually well-off middle class kids pretending to be poor working class kids. So much for classism.

[communard resolution]

Beating up someone for how they dress is the community enforcing certain social norms - a sort of revolutionary justice. Also - if these emos are homosexuals, they give the rest of us a bad name.

EDIT: Maybe that wasn't too clear: the emos give the rest of us homosexuals a bad name. Well, maybe then queer-bashing is also a sort of revolutionary justice since it's the community enforcing certain social norms? Complete nonsense. I hope you were kidding.

The emo kids, regardless of how lame they are for other reasons, don't give anyone a bad name. They don't pretend to be homosexuals, they just follow a certain aesthetic that's at odds with the traditional notions of masculinity. It's not a homophobia issue, it's a gender issue.

[welshboy]

Not where I'm from they're not.
Well one or two but most of the metal and punk kids were working class. Seems a bit different nowadays though what with all the expensive kit required to be branded as 'alternative'.

[communard resolution]

Not where I'm from they're not.
Well one or two but most of the metal and punk kids were working class. Seems a bit different nowadays though what with all the expensive kit required to be branded as 'alternative'.When I was a punk I found the kit to be hilariously expensive even then. I couldn't afford a motorcycle jacket and a million studs. With my charity shop leather jacket I never looked as 'punk' as the well-off middle class 'hardcore punks'.

[welshboy]

Can't remember ever seeing folk with jackets covered with studs back home, there was more of a grungy/DIY thing going on as no one had the cash for the whole punk chic thing.
There was one lad who had a pair of bondage trousers but he was the middle class one :p

[Lector Malibu]

Beating up someone for how they dress is the community enforcing certain social norms - a sort of revolutionary justice. Also - if these emos are homosexuals, they give the rest of us a bad name.

EDIT: Maybe that wasn't too clear: the emos give the rest of us homosexuals a bad name.

How do you figure?

[communard resolution]

Can't remember ever seeing folk with jackets covered with studs back home, there was more of a grungy/DIY thing going on as no one had the cash for the whole punk chic thing.
There was one lad who had a pair of bondage trousers but he was the middle class one :p Oh, okay. Where I'm from lots of kids had the full-blown Discharge/GBH "king of studs" look.

[Ultra-Violence]

Wrong. Punks are usually well-off middle class kids pretending to be poor working class kids. So much for classism.

Well sure thiers always goana be those well of kids but were im from no its doesnt apply and neither does it in mexico, come to east l.a and tell the punx thier thier well off and get a nice boot party or even better go tell the kids in mexico that.

[Dean]

Now my question to you is: considering being part of the emo trend is a choice how bad is the discrimination and violence direct at this group? The discrimination has been compared to that exprienced by the Jews (admitedly at another time and in another place), or homosexuals. However neither of these is a fashion choice. being emo is not a culture or a tribe (as defined by the sociology and anthropology departments of the UNAM, the national univesity) it is simply a way of dressing and a style of music associated to it. should this discrimination be treated differently to that experienced by women, gays, discapcitated people, minority ethnic groups, endangered cultures etc?

The fuck? The Jews, disabled, homosexuals and minorities were rounded up and gassed, burned, starved etc. by Hitler's regime. Women and minorities (sometimes majorities) have faced extreme forms of economic and social discrimination and violence. While I think it is a shame that people are being treated poorly based on an internet culture, I think is is much more disturbing that you compare that to the terrible atrocities commited against people on religious, ethnic, cultural and national lines. I'm sorry if I seem callous, but it is not just scale and place that differentiates the Holocaust from the discrimination against emo kids - it is inherently different.

[communard resolution]

Well sure thiers always goana be those well of kids but were im from no its doesnt apply and neither does it in mexico, come to east l.a and tell the punx thier thier well off and get a nice boot party or even better go tell the kids in mexico that.Dunno about LA today, but it seems in the early 80s most of the hardcore punks there were spoiled suburban kids and surfer jocks who flooded in from the beaches looking for action. You know, that whole Black Flag/Circle Jerks type crowd. I wasn't around then, but that's what the old LA bands I spoke to told me. Maybe it's different now, so please restrain from giving me a 'boot party'.

I was probably generalizing when I said punks are usually rich kids. But I do think that the notion of punk being a working class thing is a myth. Punk has been a melting pot of people from different social backgrounds from day one.

[communard resolution]

The fuck? The Jews, disabled, homosexuals and minorities were rounded up and gassed, burned, starved etc. by Hitler's regime. Women and minorities (sometimes majorities) have faced extreme forms of economic and social discrimination and violence. While I think it is a shame that people are being treated poorly based on an internet culture, I think is is much more disturbing that you compare that to the terrible atrocities commited against people on religious, ethnic, cultural and national lines. I'm sorry if I seem callous, but it is not just scale and place that differentiates the Holocaust from the discrimination against emo kids - it is inherently different.I agree, the discrimination against emos is different. Emos aren't forced to wear a triangle that says "emo" when they walk the streets (:laugh:), they aren't being gassed, etc. It's more a case of morons kicking the shit out of people for no good reason.

But then, it's still discrimination and can have similar results, as demonstrated by the bunch of thugs who beat a goth girl to death last year in the UK.

I don't really subscribe to the view that discrimination "on religious, cultural" etc lines is qualitatively different to discrimination on the grounds of somebody's clothes or chosen lifestyle. If I decide to wear silver spandex pants and nail a dead squirrel to my head, then that's my culture and religion, regardless whether it's traditional or not. Correct me if I misunderstood you, though.

[welshboy]

I agree, the discrimination against emos is different. Emos aren't forced to wear a triangle that says "emo" when they walk the streets
Careful, you could start a trend there.

[Plagueround]

When I was a punk I found the kit to be hilariously expensive even then. I couldn't afford a motorcycle jacket and a million studs. With my charity shop leather jacket I never looked as 'punk' as the well-off middle class 'hardcore punks'.

That's the part I always found hilarious about the punks, goths, etc. that I encountered when I was younger. A good number of them I met were "fighting the system" by wearing a couple hundred dollars worth of Hot Topic clothing and expensive make up. Nothing says individuality like all having the same Misfits patch on your jackets. :D

[Kropotesta]

well i wear a sleeveless denium from a charity shop and skinnies that I took in by myself....DIY!

[Lector Malibu]

well i wear a sleeveless denium from a charity shop and skinnies that I took in by myself....DIY!

What's funny is last time this thread came around I made the joke I was gonna grow a giant "Flock of Seagulls" hair cut to show support for the emo scene. :lol:

I have not done that but..

My style is defiantly emo now.

a normal day is black skinnies, converse chucks, a white belt, a really bad shirt, and I have this great black and neon blue striped slim fit hooded sweat shirt

Funny thing is I'm 6 foot something , covered in tattoos and pretty much look like eat crow bars and nails for breakfast :lol:

Not a one has said anything :lol:

[RNK]

Last year there was this big huffy-puffy about a school shooting at a local College in which a crazy (Arabic!) emo kid went around shooting people, killed like 7 students. There was a tiny bit of media hype about him being a goth-emo punk.

A few days after this I was walking down the street and saw some goth-emo dude and his goth-emo girlfriend walking towards me. I was so tempted to scream and throw my hands in the air and shout "Don't shoot, please!"

It was good laughs at the time. I used to be into the goth-emo thing quite heavily back in the day. I was totally Mansonesque with the face paint and all of that shit. I too was/am 6 foot something. It was fun, I got stares but nobody said anything except to tell me that I missed a spot with my makeup.

But now I hate people like that. I hate you, Lector Malibu!

[Lector Malibu]

But now I hate people like that. I hate you, Lector Malibu!

:lol:Take a number, the lines very long.

[Ultra-Violence]

Dunno about LA today, but it seems in the early 80s most of the hardcore punks there were spoiled suburban kids and surfer jocks who flooded in from the beaches looking for action. You know, that whole Black Flag/Circle Jerks type crowd. I wasn't around then, but that's what the old LA bands I spoke to told me. Maybe it's different now, so please restrain from giving me a 'boot party'.

I was probably generalizing when I said punks are usually rich kids. But I do think that the notion of punk being a working class thing is a myth. Punk has been a melting pot of people from different social backgrounds from day one.


true its very divers and l.a has changed a bunch since the 80's immigrants came thats how i got here shoot and all the punx now our pretty much bad ass kids with no future in sight pretty much like how the *cholos chose their way youd be surprised really shit the punk scene is getting worse to tell you the truth punk gangs are starting to form and their getting violent and im talkin about Guns balsting violent not good but its the reality ever heard of SSP (south side punx) their working for their 13 as we speak just giving you a picture of how it is right here right now.

[Segadoway]

LOL I i was on a bus today and these ''lads''(or preps in america,chavs in the UK) were starting a fight with this emo kid and he just stood straight up and smashed the absolute crap outta all 4 of them

[Kropotesta]

true its very divers and l.a has changed a bunch since the 80's immigrants came thats how i got here shoot and all the punx now our pretty much bad ass kids with no future in sight pretty much like how the *cholos chose their way youd be surprised really shit the punk scene is getting worse to tell you the truth punk gangs are starting to form and their getting violent and im talkin about Guns balsting violent not good but its the reality ever heard of SSP (south side punx) their working for their 13 as we speak just giving you a picture of how it is right here right now.
working for their 13? what?
Yeah I heard the US punk scene, particualry street punk, is getting all into that violent gang culture. Sounds shit.

[Lector Malibu]

LOL I i was on a bus today and these ''lads''(or preps in america,chavs in the UK) were starting a fight with this emo kid and he just stood straight up and smashed the absolute crap outta all 4 of them

win:cool:

[Lector Malibu]

working for their 13? what?
Yeah I heard the US punk scene, particualry street punk, is getting all into that violent gang culture. Sounds shit.

Southside 13 is a west coast gang.

It's true actually I lived all over the U.S. and things are just bad in general.

[Dean]

I agree, the discrimination against emos is different. Emos aren't forced to wear a triangle that says "emo" when they walk the streets (:laugh:), they aren't being gassed, etc. It's more a case of morons kicking the shit out of people for no good reason.

But then, it's still discrimination and can have similar results, as demonstrated by the bunch of thugs who beat a goth girl to death last year in the UK.

I don't really subscribe to the view that discrimination "on religious, cultural" etc lines is qualitatively different to discrimination on the grounds of somebody's clothes or chosen lifestyle. If I decide to wear silver spandex pants and nail a dead squirrel to my head, then that's my culture and religion, regardless whether it's traditional or not. Correct me if I misunderstood you, though.

You're right. The point is that the discriminaton takes on a distinctly different role in the Holocaust and Nakba than it does in this emo-bashing crap. If they were being rounded up and tortured / gassed, I'd find the discrimination comparable. But its simply not that way; it's a totally different issue.

[communard resolution]

true its very divers and l.a has changed a bunch since the 80's immigrants came thats how i got here shoot and all the punx now our pretty much bad ass kids with no future in sight pretty much like how the *cholos chose their way youd be surprised really shit the punk scene is getting worse to tell you the truth punk gangs are starting to form and their getting violent and im talkin about Guns balsting violent not good but its the reality ever heard of SSP (south side punx) their working for their 13 as we speak just giving you a picture of how it is right here right now.

Right! I totally forgot about that. Lots of latino kids on the LA punk scene now. There's even a movie about a bunch of latino punk kids called "Wassup Rockers", it's actually pretty cool. They are skater kids, but they listen to Casualties style hardcore punk. I guess you must have seen it?

[Ultra-Violence]

working for their 13? what?
Yeah I heard the US punk scene, particualry street punk, is getting all into that violent gang culture. Sounds shit.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
13 is the number that southern hispanic gangs use it the 13 letter of the alphabet wich is M and its stande for *eMe wich is the mexican mafia wich runs all of the southsiders the surenos if you go to northern cali they use 14 for *eNe the neustra familia the rivals of the *eMe also the southsiders use the color blue northsiders use red and the 13 and 14 is something ur gang has to earn

Right! I totally forgot about that. Lots of latino kids on the LA punk scene now. There's even a movie about a bunch of latino punk kids called "Wassup Rockers", it's actually pretty cool. They are skater kids, but they listen to Casualties style hardcore punk. I guess you must have seen it?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
no havent seen it but now im goana make it a point too and yeah lots of kids listen to the casualties but the majority of the reason is cause they do albums in spanish and tour alot in mexico. but right now SKA is hitting big in L.A thats were all the kids are going nuts over let me give you a link so you can see what im talking about if you ever come to l.a pm we can go to a show or something

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=22068819
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=2842694

^^^^^
Check those out itll give you a tatste of whats cracking in los angeles
want to know more Pm me

[razboz]

i realise this thread may be agonise in its final moments, but i just htought i'd respond the emo discrimination/jewish discrimination. to start off with i've never implied the shoah was compareable in any way to emo-beating. however it is comparable to the kind of abuse jews were getting before the rise to power of the National Socialist part in geermany. Throughout europe (yes, you too england) jews were beaten, made fun of and discriminated against with the same background banality emos are in my part of the world. Could this be a warning bell? an omen of things to come? i can but wonder.

[jaffe]

No it's not the same because that happened for ages in Europa including Pogroms.

[bcbm]

Yeah I heard the US punk scene, particualry street punk, is getting all into that violent gang culture. Sounds shit.

Uh, punk and gang culture have overlapped since at least the late 1980's.

[Kropotesta]

Uh, punk and gang culture have overlapped since at least the late 1980's.
uh, I don't know bout where you're from but the UK don't have punk gangs that fight eachother over turf and are now getting guns and actually killing eachother.....

[bcbm]

uh, I don't know bout where you're from but the UK don't have punk gangs that fight eachother over turf and are now getting guns and actually killing eachother.....

Well the discussion was on the US punk scene and I was pointing out that it isn't a new thing, but has been around for at least two decades.

[Kropotesta]

Well the discussion was on the US punk scene and I was pointing out that it isn't a new thing, but has been around for at least two decades.
well people that I've spoken to and messageboard posts I've seen, from the US, state it as a fairly new phenomena in their punk scenes.

[Ultra-Violence]

i realise this thread may be agonise in its final moments, but i just htought i'd respond the emo discrimination/jewish discrimination. to start off with i've never implied the shoah was compareable in any way to emo-beating. however it is comparable to the kind of abuse jews were getting before the rise to power of the National Socialist part in geermany. Throughout europe (yes, you too england) jews were beaten, made fun of and discriminated against with the same background banality emos are in my part of the world. Could this be a warning bell? an omen of things to come? i can but wonder.

^^^^^^^
NO WAY MAN! your comparing the systematic murder of millions of people to some emo kids getting beat up man your looking way into this man im telling you its something very simple that just went sour pretty quickly PunX in mexico wanted the Emos to get teh FUCk of thier scene! thats was the base for all of this mess man this isnt some world wide haterd of emos.

[Lector Malibu]

^^^^^^^
NO WAY MAN! your comparing the systematic murder of millions of people to some emo kids getting beat up man your looking way into this man im telling you its something very simple that just went sour pretty quickly PunX in mexico wanted the Emos to get teh FUCk of thier scene! thats was the base for all of this mess man this isnt some world wide haterd of emos.

Yes, comparing the situation of events that occurred during world war two to the plight of the Emo scene is not accurate.

However, to say that they have not been the target of harassment and victims of homophobic bias is minimizing the situation at best.

Oh and I'm fed up with the punk scene in general as well with several other sub cultures.

[bcbm]

well people that I've spoken to and messageboard posts I've seen, from the US, state it as a fairly new phenomena in their punk scenes.

Then they don't know the history of their subculture, which is not particularly surprising.

[Ultra-Violence]

However, to say that they have not been the target of harassment and victims of homophobic bias is minimizing the situation at best.
^^^^^^^^
I never said their wasnt any homophobia in this mess of course its thier and its an important factor but not the sole "cuase" of this debacle

Oh and I'm fed up with the punk scene in general as well with several other sub cultures.
^^^^^^
Hey feel however you want about whatever you want nice to know tho

Then they don't know the history of their subculture, which is not particularly surprising.
^^^^^^^^^^
THIS! this is what cuases these problems the kids they dont know, thier just looking for a good time somwhere to belong you know and even tho many of them dont know the history they will defend it dearly becuase for lots of em its all they have to look foward to in life.

[DustWolf]

Hey guys, I realize this is a revolutionary forum... praise violence if for a right cause and all... but I gotta say this. Those kids thinking beating somebody up for whatever reason is just plain stupid altogether.

I mean around here we don't get very big gangs of whoever teaming up to beat up XY. What I heard and seen was various of these blood & honor groups who think they have a right to throw glass at people around the city because they shave their heads and think they are some kind of purebreed Slovenian mutts. I'm one of the 95% of the people 'involved' who ended up in the collateral damage and one thing strikes me as obvious: These kids need an attitude adjustment.

It's not some cultural thing, it's not some social thing, it's not other groups insulting them or their moral values. It's just kids out of control. Self destructive behavior of a society that has become too short-sighted to comprehend the concept of common good or be able to teach it to their kids for that matter.

I'm sure it's the same problem anywhere on the world.