The American Revolution

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm curious as to what everyone thinks about the American Revolution, from a revolutionary leftist perspective.

And....GO!

[Renewed Revolution]

It was not a revolution, it was a bourgeoisie sponsored coup that dragged out into a conflict, and while the "Founding Fathers" enjoyed their wonderful lifestyles they made the proletariat carry their ideas on their backs until the conflict was over, with some help from the bourgeoisie in France. It is ironic that people talk about how free we are in America when part of our founding was helped by the cruelest of all rulers.

[Psy]

It was mostly was the bourgeoisie of the British colonies getting together to make a independent nation for their own class interest (as a large chunk of their capital was going to Britain) and using the masses as a stick to get their way.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It was not a revolution, it was a bourgeoisie sponsored coup that dragged out into a conflict, and while the "Founding Fathers" enjoyed their wonderful lifestyles they made the proletariat carry their ideas on their backs until the conflict was over, with some help from the bourgeoisie in France. It is ironic that people talk about how free we are in America when part of our founding was helped by the cruelest of all rulers.

I would argue that it was a revolution. It upset the established order in the colonies, even if it was "bourgeois sponsored". Industrial capitalism hadn't even fully developed in the US at that time, and Tocqueville when he visited the US noted that the economic inequalities that existed in Europe amongst aristocracy and citizens largely were absent in the US. In any case, and the classical liberal principles that the country were originally founded upon was progressive for the time period, I would argue.

[hekmatista]

Very briefly: Colonial merchants and plantation owners ride the crest of a revolutionary wave of artisans, indentured servants, small farmers, and wage workers to victory of a national bourgeoisie, incidently creating the most complete p.b. democracy of that or any prior time.

[BIG BROTHER]

what american revolution? do you mean the one in the U.S., or any of the other many countries that exist in America?

Well assuming that you meant the revolution of the U.S. I believe that it was progressive in the sense, that it served to free the colonies from Brittian and obviosly colonialism. I would say that's about it. Maybe it was also progressive because it lead to industrialization, but maybe the colonies would still have been industrialized even if they had stayed under the power of England.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm referring to the conflict that occured in the present day United States, between Britain and the thirteen colonies.

[RHIZOMES]

It was still progressive. Bourgeoisie revolution--->Proletarian revolution

[Random Precision]

I won't add much except to chime in on the positive side. The American Revolution was a revolution led by the intellectuals and merchants to end their domination by the British crown. It was the most progressive revolution since Cromwell's English Revolution and until the French Revolution; and I might add that many of the Jacobins took inspiration from the ideas of Jefferson, Paine et al. Furthermore, it was the first revolution to throw off European domination in the Americas, a very progressive development indeed, and one which would help inspire Americans to the south to do the same. Without the American revolution, or if it had failed, the full development of industrial capitalism in this region of the world could have taken many decades longer.


It was not a revolution, it was a bourgeoisie sponsored coup that dragged out into a conflict, and while the "Founding Fathers" enjoyed their wonderful lifestyles they made the proletariat carry their ideas on their backs until the conflict was over, with some help from the bourgeoisie in France. It is ironic that people talk about how free we are in America when part of our founding was helped by the cruelest of all rulers.

You clearly know absolutely nothing about this. The American Revolution was supported by the vast majority of farmers and urban artisans, the lower classes of pre-industrial America. There was no "proletariat" to speak of at that point, and not much bourgeoisie either. As for France, the struggle in America was indeed supported by the French crown (rather than the bourgeoisie, which did not take power until 1789) as a way of giving the British a black eye. Regardless, you need to shed your idealism and recognize that regardless of the distasteful personal lives of the leading revolutionaries, their revolution was quite progressive. At that point in history, it was not about the proletariat versus the bourgeoisie, and the American revolution was a development that preconditioned that later class struggle.


maybe the colonies would still have been industrialized even if they had stayed under the power of England.

I doubt it. British policy in the colonies was strictly mercantile, it would have never been in the interest of the British ruling class for them to industrialize, as it would have shattered their dependent relationship to the mother country.

That said, it's important to remember exactly what kind of conflict this was, and that the words and deeds of leaders like Washington, Hamilton and Jefferson are anathema to modern revolutionary sentiment. During the years of the Popular Front, CPUSA rallies often featured large banners of Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln with the slogan "Communism is 20th Century Americanism". :rolleyes: Yeah, about that...

[Psy]

You clearly know absolutely nothing about this. The American Revolution was supported by the vast majority of farmers and urban artisans, the lower classes of pre-industrial America.

Mostly thanks to Thomas Paine that was advocating redistribution of wealth from the land owners (through taxes) to fund the rapid industrialization of the colonies by the state (state-capitalism) and to fund social programs (welfare state).

Of course those ideas were never really considered valid by land owners even though those ideas was what rallied the masses.

[Dros]

It was not a revolution, it was a bourgeoisie sponsored coup that dragged out into a conflict, and while the "Founding Fathers" enjoyed their wonderful lifestyles they made the proletariat carry their ideas on their backs until the conflict was over, with some help from the bourgeoisie in France. It is ironic that people talk about how free we are in America when part of our founding was helped by the cruelest of all rulers.

Have you ever read anything Marx wrote ever?

Of course it was a revolution. It was a bourgeois revolution.

In that sense, it was an historically progressive movement that cast off the feudal ruling class and allowed for greater capitalist style development which, culminating in the industrial revolution, led to the formation of a more advanced proletariat and bourgeoisie.

[Dust Bunnies]

I think the American Revolution was progressive. It reintroduced Democracy into the world. Also, Britain during that time (don't know if they still do) had their version of the US's Federal Reserve. The founding fathers were against the Federal Reserve, a huge Capitalist evil that could bring a country to its knees. So while the founding fathers didn't make a leap for a worker they tried, until the idiots of the early 1900's brought the Federal Reserve to America. (and after the President who brought the Federal Reserve was out of office he realized it was a huge mistake)

[chimx]

It was extremely progressive. It advanced capitalism and undermined mercantalism.

[Pacifistic Liberty]

It was progressive for the reason mentioned above, a bourgeois revolution that would lead to an eventual proletariat one according to Marx.
It's significance also lies in that it was one of the first colonies to break from in imperialistic oppressor. Ironically though this country would become ones of the biggest imperial powers and would remain one to this day.

[redSHARP]

it was almost a reactionnary revolution. the land and merchant elite rebelled to protect their land and profits. and when the artisans would get out of line (push for more anarachist ideas), the merchants used force to check them into order.

thomas jefferson: i put down all men are created equal. is that ok?

John Hancock: yeah, just dont tell the slaves.

[MAVA]

thomas jefferson: i put down all men are created equal. is that ok?

John Hancock: yeah, just dont tell the slaves.

John Adams: and the redskins.