Social programs

[Organic Revolution]

An organization I'm in, the community independence project, is starting social programs, like that of the Black Panther Party, and we are going to call them the same thing, survival programs pending revolution.

We are starting the peoples ambulance, the community school, and the food programs.

What do you think about this kind of community building, pending revolution?

[Plagueround]

I think it's really awesome, probably one of the most important things you can do because it shows people how things COULD work instead of how they are now. I admit I don't know much about this kind of thing...where does your organization get funding and supplies?

[professorchaos]

Not to mention painting the movement in a very humanitarian and generally positive light.

[Organic Revolution]

I think it's really awesome, probably one of the most important things you can do because it shows people how things COULD work instead of how they are now. I admit I don't know much about this kind of thing...where does your organization get funding and supplies?

If you apply for 501 (c) 3 status, all things that people give you are tax deductable for them, so they are a bit more ready to give up money and supplies to fund us... and we dont tell the grocery stores its for free breakfast programs. :)

[More Fire for the People]

It is the primary objective of the socialist movement.

[Organic Revolution]

It is the primary objective of the socialist movement.

And one that most socialists don't do. The only folks I see doing community organizing are the anarchists. Selling papers doesnt create revolutions, communities do.

[Vageli]

Wow that is an amazing idea. Do you have any more information on the particulars of your organization? I would like to look into starting a group in my area.

[welshboy]

I think it's a great idea though unless you allow those who are using your services to participate in the running of the projects you are in for a hell of a lot of hard work.
I'm part of an Asylum Seeker support project and in a lot of the capaigning work we do Asylum Seekers take a leading role. If you do things 'for' people you end up breeding a culture of clientelism where folk expect you to do things for them rather than giving them the tools to do things themselves. This can be really disempowering for all involved, not least those who put all the hard work into getting such projects off the ground.
Good luck with this.
the community school project sounds really good. Might I recommend for a bit of reading on the matter the book by Paul Avrich on Anarchists in the modern School movement. interesting reading whatever your political ideology. it's available from AK press.

[ckaihatsu]

And one that most socialists don't do. The only folks I see doing community organizing are the anarchists. Selling papers doesnt create revolutions, communities do.


I hate to even hit the reply button on this one, because I value the stuff I see being done at the grassroots by anarchists and greens and others, but I have to take respectful exception to the comment.

Until we have a number of commie channels alongside Fox News, or several commie metropolitan newspapers with their own vending machines throughout the major cities, there will be a need for revolutionaries to sell newspapers, person-to-person. This is coming from someone who has done it, too.

While much political culture can be passed along through participation in a grassroots community, there is a downside to depending on word-of-mouth as the vehicle for spreading revolution. Without an editing process, and a formalization of politics, a community -- and therefore the world in general -- can run the risk of being limited to their own local, insular basket of political viewpoints.

Yes, there could be regional conferences that bring together participants from many locales, but -- here's the thing -- as soon as one of them decides to write a statement, then you may as well just have a publication for the group as a whole. That is, why not have several contributors, and an editor to coordinate the statements? Throw in some current events and you're back to the anarcho-commie rag which you may as well go on the street to sell to suburbanites who might not otherwise come across stuff like that.

One of the suburbanites might read it and have their world turn inside out and get a bug up their ass and go and start subverting some mainstream channel of mass communication, injecting that counter-cultural attitude into the bourgeois makeup -- not so bad, right? Could happen through the grassroots community thing, or maybe not -- maybe all it would take is selling a paper to someone....


Chris




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[Organic Revolution]

I think it's a great idea though unless you allow those who are using your services to participate in the running of the projects you are in for a hell of a lot of hard work.
I'm part of an Asylum Seeker support project and in a lot of the capaigning work we do Asylum Seekers take a leading role. If you do things 'for' people you end up breeding a culture of clientelism where folk expect you to do things for them rather than giving them the tools to do things themselves. This can be really disempowering for all involved, not least those who put all the hard work into getting such projects off the ground.
Good luck with this.
the community school project sounds really good. Might I recommend for a bit of reading on the matter the book by Paul Avrich on Anarchists in the modern School movement. interesting reading whatever your political ideology. it's available from AK press.

The programs are run off of an 'Each One Teach One' type organization, with the exception of the children's free breakfast program, due to hazards of children cooking in large kitchens. One of the tenets of our foods program is community gardens, where you get as much as you put work in, unless you are unable, than you get foodstuffs from the grocery store.

I have read the modern school movement book many a time, and I like it every time.

[Organic Revolution]

Wow that is an amazing idea. Do you have any more information on the particulars of your organization? I would like to look into starting a group in my area.

What do you wanna know?

[Organic Revolution]

I hate to even hit the reply button on this one, because I value the stuff I see being done at the grassroots by anarchists and greens and others, but I have to take respectful exception to the comment.

Until we have a number of commie channels alongside Fox News, or several commie metropolitan newspapers with their own vending machines throughout the major cities, there will be a need for revolutionaries to sell newspapers, person-to-person. This is coming from someone who has done it, too.

While much political culture can be passed along through participation in a grassroots community, there is a downside to depending on word-of-mouth as the vehicle for spreading revolution. Without an editing process, and a formalization of politics, a community -- and therefore the world in general -- can run the risk of being limited to their own local, insular basket of political viewpoints.

Yes, there could be regional conferences that bring together participants from many locales, but -- here's the thing -- as soon as one of them decides to write a statement, then you may as well just have a publication for the group as a whole. That is, why not have several contributors, and an editor to coordinate the statements? Throw in some current events and you're back to the anarcho-commie rag which you may as well go on the street to sell to suburbanites who might not otherwise come across stuff like that.

One of the suburbanites might read it and have their world turn inside out and get a bug up their ass and go and start subverting some mainstream channel of mass communication, injecting that counter-cultural attitude into the bourgeois makeup -- not so bad, right? Could happen through the grassroots community thing, or maybe not -- maybe all it would take is selling a paper to someone....


Chris




--
___

RevLeft.com -- Home of the Revolutionary Left
www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=16162 (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=16162)

Photoillustrations, Political Diagrams by Chris Kaihatsu
community.webshots.com/user/ckaihatsu/

3D Design Communications - Let Your Design Do Your Footwork
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CouchSurfing:
tinyurl.com/yoh74u


I never said that papers are bad, I said that when all your Org does is sell papers, you have a problem.

[welshboy]

You don't let the children cook for themselves? That is so authoritarian dude, like how are they supposed to learn without scarring them selves for life with a hot stove? I hear that the mujwotsit tribe in... :p
Sounds like you're doing really good work.:)
If I'm ever in the states I'd quite like to have a look at how it's going. We are starting similar things in Glasgow though the community school is wee while away yet, there are a million and one legal loop holes to jump before we casn even think about that one.

[razboz]

i'm a big fan of this kind of thing. i remember that before the big squat crack-down last summer a lot squats ran these kinds of projects, especially with immigrant workers and poor families.

[welshboy]

Big squat crackdown? US aye?

[razboz]

no the crackdown in europe, when rhino, la tour, umgomshuset (sorry i cant remember how to spell it. or pronouce it for that matter) and a bunch of other big old ones got closed down.

[RNK]

I like the "pending revolution" part. A++++++

[Organic Revolution]

I find it strange how little interest there is in social/community building in this forum, but the biggest topic is "is violent revolution possible?"... Shouldn't folks be organizing in the here and now?

[ckaihatsu]

I never said that papers are bad, I said that when all your Org does is sell papers, you have a problem.



I find it strange how little interest there is in social/community building in this forum, but the biggest topic is "is violent revolution possible?"... Shouldn't folks be organizing in the here and now?


Both of these comments deal with the interplay between theory and practice. I have no problems with anyone who wishes to deal with the immediate problems of starvation, homelessness, illiteracy, and so on, but after awhile the question of politics comes into play -- should *all* of us become volunteers? Is volunteerism the best practice of politics? Would we be able to end oppression / capitalism through mass volunteerism, like through a grassroots New Deal movement?

The answer, of course, is no. Overthrowing capitalism requires a mass *workers'* movement, one which can seize control of the means of mass production, worldwide, no matter how bad conditions may be at the ground level.

This is where political education is of utmost importance -- selling papers is crucial to this, and so is argumentation *for* a workers' revolution.

The *violent* revolution thing is kind of on the sexy side, so it's not too surprising that it picks up popularity -- we know that revolutions don't necessarily *have* to be violent, but the capitalists tend to make them that way.

[jetpen]

In an online forum the dreamer/doer ratio is probably high. Strong organizations rely on local communities made up of person to person relationships. Without emotional attachment and personal friendships it's impossible to get people motivated to do anything.

Instead of violently seizing the means of production, what about actually building manufacturing machinery and producing things? The "means of production" are continually wearing out and becoming obsolete anyway.

If all food were free, and all medical care, and housing, and so on; then why would we need capitalism? Why not just detach and quit the system?

[ckaihatsu]

In an online forum the dreamer/doer ratio is probably high. Strong organizations rely on local communities made up of person to person relationships. Without emotional attachment and personal friendships it's impossible to get people motivated to do anything.


Well, this is the grassroots pipe dream -- you're basically saying that if enough people turn their backs to corporate capitalism, and the military, it'll just go away.



Instead of violently seizing the means of production, what about actually building manufacturing machinery and producing things? The "means of production" are continually wearing out and becoming obsolete anyway.


Factories and machinery are being built all the time -- the question is who gets to control it and receive the fruits of its operation -- under capitalism the workers get screwed. Why *shouldn't* the workers seize control of the means of mass production?



If all food were free, and all medical care, and housing, and so on; then why would we need capitalism? Why not just detach and quit the system?


Okay, but food comes from agribusiness and government subsidies -- will they go along with your utopian grassroots idea? And medical care / health insurance is a multi-billion-dollar industry -- how about them? Ditto for housing. Why *should* we duplicate all that when it can simply be seized?

[gla22]

Both of these comments deal with the interplay between theory and practice. I have no problems with anyone who wishes to deal with the immediate problems of starvation, homelessness, illiteracy, and so on, but after awhile the question of politics comes into play -- should *all* of us become volunteers? Is volunteerism the best practice of politics? Would we be able to end oppression / capitalism through mass volunteerism, like through a grassroots New Deal movement?

The answer, of course, is no. Overthrowing capitalism requires a mass *workers'* movement, one which can seize control of the means of mass production, worldwide, no matter how bad conditions may be at the ground level.

This is where political education is of utmost importance -- selling papers is crucial to this, and so is argumentation *for* a workers' revolution.

The *violent* revolution thing is kind of on the sexy side, so it's not too surprising that it picks up popularity -- we know that revolutions don't necessarily *have* to be violent, but the capitalists tend to make them that way.

There isn't enough socialist media and volunteer organizations imo. Socialism in the west, especially America, is weak. We need to start building up awareness and a positive image of socialism.

[turquino]

Very cool idea Comrade Organic Revolution. I dig it!:lol:

I think Ward Churchill suggested something similar as to how Anarchist and Marxist organizations can make their politics relevant. Just watch out for that COINTELPRO!

[ckaihatsu]

Very cool idea Comrade Organic Revolution. I dig it!:lol:

I think Ward Churchill suggested something similar as to how Anarchist and Marxist organizations can make their politics relevant. Just watch out for that COINTELPRO!



There isn't enough socialist media and volunteer organizations imo. Socialism in the west, especially America, is weak. We need to start building up awareness and a positive image of socialism.


All,

I think the historic financial crises now facing the capitalist system provides immense opportunities for pan-tendency solidarity on the left. There has probably never been a greater chasm between the nationalists (bourgeoisie) and the revolutionary / radical left since the Great Depression.

Mass struggles are spontaneously breaking out here in the U.S. over fuel prices, and worldwide that, and other commodities, markets are ballooning because the capitalists have no better areas in which to do their hazardous speculative activities.

This portends an ever deepening crisis for the rulers in a period which is quickly heading towards the primaries, and then the election season -- the general population, if not already disaffected by the politicians' ignoring of these vital issues, is going to be looking for some kind of relief from the actions of the incoming elected president, and they are going to be sorely disappointed.

I'm pretty sure I've been seeing a strengthening of intra-left relationships in the past decade because of this worsening capitalist crisis -- I'm sure there are fewer good reasons to engage in hair-splitting as more of the public will be looking for a decent, general alternative to the electoral system and to the haunting problems of the economic system.

Refinements like stylization and image-defining may be more appropriate in tougher political climates, which fortunately are not part of the present. I'd recommend having simple, general arguments at hand so that newly radicalized people can be painlessly eased into leftist politics with few complications. Being clear on the immigration issue will easily clear away any fence-sitting and can provide plenty of potential mileage if explained well.

Internationally there are more workers struggles than ever in recent history, so one can quickly re-orient themselves from plenty of examples which happen to be at hand.


Chris

[redSHARP]

food not bombs is a great way to get some esperience doing community work.

however, from what i gathered from your opening post, is you want a revolutionary group. you can get a core group of anarchist and reds, maybe your local R.A.S.H. crew can help since they are very pro-active and throw ska (non of that shitty 3rd wave crap!)/punk shows in your area. this would bring in kids from the area and get them interested in the movement. once you got a core group then you can move on to other shit.