Help me become a "communist"

[Digitalism]

I don't know why I placed that in quotes, after all, this is THE place for the descussions. But I guess, I just didn't want to start a chain reaction of some sorts...anyway.

Just a bit about myself, I feel the need for it.

I'm naturally Ukrainian, but Russian influence in Ukraine is of course...obvious, for those who know the history :lol: - so my main language is Russian, having grown up in a southern port city of Odessa up until 1999 until I moved to USA. I haven't been much of a politics person up until I'd say the last year. Maturity is wonderful. And I've always felt an attraction for my own country's history. That's why I've grown a great interest in socialism and communism and all things Soviet Union. I'm thankful for having a few people who could tell me everything about it, having lived there, and seeing and living things firsthand..but I was too young for all that - born '86.

But all of that isn't enough, which is why I found this place, this community. I'm very much in the earliest stages of aquiring knowledge about socialism and communism - and it's refreshing to read and know that there are communities and people in general (especially refreshing to know there are AMERICANS) who are not bought into capitalist thinking. I'm sure a lot can identify daily how it feels to be surrounded and feel "awkward" for being a minority in the U.S.

The basic answer for my question is indeed - READ Communist Manifesto, but what comes after? Can anybody point me into the right direction? How do I grow? Maybe even, how can I know truly for sure who I am politically. :confused: Other than that, what books, articles, etc can help me truly learn and aquire great knowledge.. so when I'm wearing red CCCP shirt and somebody stops me and asks "Are you a communist? Why?" I can give an answer that's intelligent and unbiased. Or am I fantasizing?

Thank you. If something doesn't make sense, PM me or be free to ask here.

[KC]

The basic answer for my question is indeed - READ Communist Manifesto, but what comes after?

Where do you want to go from there? Are you looking for more basic pieces to read to get a good understanding of the core of Marxism? If so, what kind of pieces? Marxism has many different facets - political theory, economic theory, and a TON of history. If you haven't already, I'd check out the following readings:

The German Ideology (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/index.htm) (Marx) - Just read part one. This is a very good explanation of Marx's famous materialist conception of history (although a complete work on the subject was never written by Marx/Engels, so a complete understanding is only picked up by reading some of their historical analyses as well).
The State and Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/) (Lenin) - This is a good explanation of what the state is, how the class struggle is structured and what transformations will take place through the process of proletarian revolution.
Ten Days That Shook the World (http://www.marxists.org/archive/reed/1919/10days/10days/) (Reed) - This is a very good history of the Russian Revolution, written by John Reed and blends his firsthand account of the revolution with historical facts and analyses of those events of which he was involved.
Marx's Kapital for Beginners (http://www.revleft.com/vb/marx-39-s-t41211/index.html) - This is from the beginners series of books, which are cartoon books; this one actually explained Marxist economics incredibly well and helped me understand Capital when I was reading it.

There are of course a million different things you could read and directions you could go from here, but I really consider these works to be the shortest and most concise for a beginner. The works listed above are also incredibly easy to read and very enjoyable (whereas some works can feel like a chore to get through as they are so dense). Also, participating in the discussion here really helps you develop ideas and learn how to defend them. I'd also suggest you get involved in an organization by you, as the best way to learn is by doing, and to be a communist one must be active in the movement (the point is not to interpret the world, but to change it - Marx).

[Niccolò Rossi]

Read, Learn, Watch, Listen, Act.

I suggest if you can, pick up a copy of the Marx-Engels Reader by Robert C. Tucker (http://www.amazon.com/Marx-Engels-Reader-Second-Karl-Marx/dp/039309040X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210070711&sr=8-1). You can pick up a copy from Amazon.com from as little as $5 US.

If you can't get your hands on a copy the next best thing is Marxists.org (http://www.marxists.org/) here you can read literally hundreds of thousands of valuable whole texts. Start with Reading Marx and Engels. Some great basic works include:

The German Ideology (Part I),
Contribution to a Critique of Hegels Philosphy of Right: Introduction,
The Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844 (Chapter on Estraged Labour),
Theses on Feuerbach,
Wage Labour and Capital,
The Civil War in France
Critique of the Gotha Program

From here I suggest you read to your heart's content. Go on to more Marx, Engels, Lenin, Luxemburg, Bukharin, Pannekoek, Gramsci.

But reading Marxist literature does not make one a Marxist, let alone a communist. The next step is to view the world around you and apply your understanding. 100 year old texts mean nothing unless they hold modern relevance and are applicable.

The final step is to act. Your action will be determined by your understanding and your own views, but action is essential.

You have a long way to go, but don't we all....

Good luck!

[Luís Henrique]

The basic answer for my question is indeed - READ Communist Manifesto, but what comes after? Can anybody point me into the right direction? How do I grow? Maybe even, how can I know truly for sure who I am politically. :confused: Other than that, what books, articles, etc can help me truly learn and aquire great knowledge.. so when I'm wearing red CCCP shirt and somebody stops me and asks "Are you a communist? Why?" I can give an answer that's intelligent and unbiased. Or am I fantasizing?

Thank you. If something doesn't make sense, PM me or be free to ask here.

Read as much as you can; going for the Marx Internet Archive is always a good idea.

But, above all, get involved in class struggle. If you are a student, join a students union, or, if it doesn't exist in your school, get some co-eds interested in forming one. If you have a job, join the union; if it is yellow, try to organise an opposition group; regardless, try to organise a workplace group. You won't be able to organise people around the past of the Soviet Union or Ukraine, or an abstract discussion of The Capital. If your communism isn't related to wages, benefits, working hours, boss repression, etc, it won't go far. Be active, try to understand what is going on in your place - the administrative changes, and how they will hurt the workers; the changes in the whole trade economics; the general policies of government regarding labour relationships. Discuss them with your co-workers; if possible, discuss them with your neighbours.

Luís Henrique

[ManyAntsDefeatSpiders]

For the moment I would ignore Kapital. :|

But if you still want to learn about Marxist economics, read this (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm). It is far more comprehensible. And I am currently going through it here. (http://www.revleft.com/vb/study-group-wage-t77483/index.html)

As far as other writings go, I would strongly suggest the Civil War in France. (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/Marx_The_Civil_War_in_France.pdf)

This mainly concerns the state, focusing on the Paris Commune. It certainly counters the argument that Marx supported a 'dictatorial totalitarian government'; indeed the Paris Commune is probably one of the most democratically accountable organisations in history.

Secondly, I would echo what Luis said: get active in some form or another.

Personally, I don't think student unions are particularly good to join. Firstly, depending on your university, they may be non-political. Secondly, if they are political it certainly won't be radical politics.

As far as unions go - most are yellow. Indeed, some are worse than that (read: they are little more than fee-collecting organisations)

Not good options if you want to learn about Marxism - normally you have a basic grasp in radical politics then join those organisations. Hence, check out what parties are in your area.

But hey, if you feel like joining a student union then do so.

As long as its activism in some form or another in my opinion; I used to be involved with the Salvation army and Save the Children. :ohmy:

And frankly, those organisations did far more for the working class than any student union (which activities mainly revolved around obtaining funds to throw parties).

[the-red-under-the-bed]

The most important thing is to become actively involved in the movements in your area, anti-war groups, unionism ect. And to join, or at least make contact with revolutionary groups. They will be mroe then happy to help educate you.



For the moment I would ignore Kapital. :|

As long as its activism in some form or another in my opinion; I used to be involved with the Salvation army and Save the Children. :ohmy:

And frankly, those organisations did far more for the working class than any student union (which activities mainly revolved around obtaining funds to throw parties).

You do realise that the salvation army was set up as a christian fundamentalist group as a direct response to welfare programs set up by communists, to remove the communist influence and keep people in churches?

[3A CCCP]

Digitalism wrote:
But all of that isn't enough, which is why I found this place, this community. I'm very much in the earliest stages of aquiring knowledge about socialism and communism - and it's refreshing to read and know that there are communities and people in general (especially refreshing to know there are AMERICANS) who are not bought into capitalist thinking. I'm sure a lot can identify daily how it feels to be surrounded and feel "awkward" for being a minority in the U.S.


Молодой человек,
Будьте очень осторожным здесь! В этой группе вы найдете много нечестных, ложных коммунистов, которые ненавидят нашу советскую Родину. Если вы хотите, можно переписываться со мной на следующий адрес-
[email protected] ([email protected])

У меня дисскусионый форум, Советская Белоруссия, где вы найдете полезную информацую-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SovietBelarus/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SovietBelarus/)

На следующих сайтах вы сможете начать свое коммунистическое образование-

http://www.oneparty.co.uk/ (http://www.oneparty.co.uk/)
Click on Courses of Marxism in the left hand box. Courses 1, 2, 3, are for beginners and will give you a good solid foundation in easy to understand terms. Read through the rest of the site and then go to:

http://www.kibristasosyalistgercek.net/english/polecon/FrmIntIndex1.htm (http://www.kibristasosyalistgercek.net/english/polecon/FrmIntIndex1.htm)
This is the English translation of the 1954 Soviet Academy of Sciences textbook on Political Economy. A long course, a lot of reading, but you will learn a lot here.

http://www.kibristasosyalistgercek.net/english/polecon/FrmIntIndex1.htm (http://www.kibristasosyalistgercek.net/english/polecon/FrmIntIndex1.htm)
This is the English translation of the 1940 text book on The History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (Bolsheviks) and was authorized by the CPSU. Excellent history book. Again, a lot of reading, but a lot of knowledge and true information.

http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/book.html (http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/book.html)
Here is an on line book where you can get the truth about comrade Stalin.

ЗА СССР!
Михаил

[ManyAntsDefeatSpiders]

You do realise that the salvation army was set up as a christian fundamentalist group as a direct response to welfare programs set up by communists, to remove the communist influence and keep people in churches?

It was set up in 1865. What welfare programs did communists have then?

I agree that the organisation is ideologically reactionary and, ultimately, fights the wrong thing. Despite this they have done more for the working class, homeless and poor than most communist parties have done. Certainly more than Resistance.

However, Its certainly not something I advocate nowadays.

But this was when I was 15, homeless and not radicalised.

[the-red-under-the-bed]

communists and/or other leftists

im not trying to rip shit on the work they do, feeding and sheltering homeless and helpless people is always a good thing, but their intentions is to keep people "in the faith". And its not like everyone who volunteers from them are therefore religous zealots, i used to do the red sheild appeal door knocking.

While the salvos have done allot of good, lots of communist parties have done shitloads, ie: provide health and education for entire populations.

Resistance clearly isnt a huge multinational and cashed up organisation. If we were, i feel pretty confident we would be able to achieve allot more than the salvos. its a question of resources.

[hekmatista]

Absolutely read the classics of Marx, Engels, Lenin. Some of the best economic analysis of the more recent period is in MONTHLY REVIEW. Works by Paul Baran, Harry Magdoff, and Paul Sweezy (their original editors) are real economics comprehensible to the layman. None of this will help you organize people, though it's a good idea to know clearly why the system is self-destructive and ultimately unsustainable (gives you confidence in debating those unfortunates who buy the whole "end of history" thing).

[EscapeFromSF]

To start, I would emphasize that the Soviet Union--symbolized by "CCCP" on your shirt--was not communist. Like any capitalist state, political, economic, and military power were concentrated in the hands of an elite which acted in its own common interest, but not the common interest of the people as a whole. The difference between the Soviet Union and the United States then is that in the former, they put a box around this elite and called it the state, where in the latter, we continue under the delusion that there is a distinction between these elites.

I therefore regard the Soviet Union as having been as capitalist and at least as authoritarian as the United States.

Communism is something else entirely, and Marx's understanding is not the only understanding. I'll have to defer to others here who argue that Marx was not a totalitarian authoritarian; my reading comes from the anarchist side, where they clearly understand that he was, and that the International was manipulated by a minority.

[Digitalism]

To start, I would emphasize that the Soviet Union--symbolized by "CCCP" on your shirt--was not communist. Like any capitalist state, political, economic, and military power were concentrated in the hands of an elite which acted in its own common interest, but not the common interest of the people as a whole. The difference between the Soviet Union and the United States then is that in the former, they put a box around this elite and called it the state, where in the latter, we continue under the delusion that there is a distinction between these elites.

I therefore regard the Soviet Union as having been as capitalist and at least as authoritarian as the United States.

Communism is something else entirely, and Marx's understanding is not the only understanding. I'll have to defer to others here who argue that Marx was not a totalitarian authoritarian; my reading comes from the anarchist side, where they clearly understand that he was, and that the International was manipulated by a minority.

I should've mentioned that I already knew the difference between communism and socialism - or at least grasped it. My point with the T-shirt wasn't to prove "CCCP was real communism folks!". It's obvious that CCCP was indeed "authoritarian" but it did more for the common man than U.S. ever could or can nowadays. Anyway I'm not going to expand on this with my limited knowledge of socialist history.

Thank you all for your recommendations ;)

[chegitz guevara]

Read, Learn, Watch, Listen, Act.

I suggest if you can, pick up a copy of the Marx-Engels Reader by Robert C. Tucker (http://www.amazon.com/Marx-Engels-Reader-Second-Karl-Marx/dp/039309040X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210070711&sr=8-1). You can pick up a copy from Amazon.com from as little as $5 US.

Honestly, I'm not terribly impressed by that book. Many of his edits don't make sense. I'd stick to just grabbing stuff of the Marxist Internet Archive, which is infinitely less expensive.

[3A CCCP]

To start, I would emphasize that the Soviet Union--symbolized by "CCCP" on your shirt--was not communist. Like any capitalist state, political, economic, and military power were concentrated in the hands of an elite which acted in its own common interest, but not the common interest of the people as a whole. The difference between the Soviet Union and the United States then is that in the former, they put a box around this elite and called it the state, where in the latter, we continue under the delusion that there is a distinction between these elites.

I therefore regard the Soviet Union as having been as capitalist and at least as authoritarian as the United States.

Communism is something else entirely, and Marx's understanding is not the only understanding. I'll have to defer to others here who argue that Marx was not a totalitarian authoritarian; my reading comes from the anarchist side, where they clearly understand that he was, and that the International was manipulated by a minority.

Молодой товарищ-Digitalism,

Вот, видите! Уже начинается. Я вас предупредил, что на этом форуме есть большое количество анти-советских сволочей разных точек зрения.

ЗА СССР!
Михаил

[3A CCCP]

To start, I would emphasize that the Soviet Union--symbolized by "CCCP" on your shirt--was not communist. Like any capitalist state, political, economic, and military power were concentrated in the hands of an elite which acted in its own common interest, but not the common interest of the people as a whole. The difference between the Soviet Union and the United States then is that in the former, they put a box around this elite and called it the state, where in the latter, we continue under the delusion that there is a distinction between these elites.

I therefore regard the Soviet Union as having been as capitalist and at least as authoritarian as the United States.

Communism is something else entirely, and Marx's understanding is not the only understanding. I'll have to defer to others here who argue that Marx was not a totalitarian authoritarian; my reading comes from the anarchist side, where they clearly understand that he was, and that the International was manipulated by a minority.

Your conception of the Soviet Union is totally flawed and you obviously know nothing of the system or life in the Soviet Union. If anyone is under a delusion it is YOU!

While I agree that after Nikita Khrushchev took power the Soviet Union became "revisionist," it was NOT "capitalist" or "imperialist." There is a big difference between "revisionist" and "capitalist." The Soviet Union had a Socialist economy, albeit one that was straying from the path due to Khrushchev.

On the other hand, it was the bulwark against U.S. imperialism and blocked U.S. advances in the world at every turn; supported Communist revolutions; educated students from exploited nations in various Soviet universities; etc.

People like you parrot bullshit you get from the Western media and Trotskyites. I'll bet if you talk to this kid's parents (Digitalism), they will back me up because they lived in the Soviet Union as I did and know it from the inside. Not the bullshit that people like you spout through your asshole.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[Dros]

Honestly, I'm not terribly impressed by that book. Many of his edits don't make sense. I'd stick to just grabbing stuff of the Marxist Internet Archive, which is infinitely less expensive.

OH my god I agree with Chegitz!

[Cult of Reason]

If you are at all interested in Anarchist Communism, the Anarchist FAQ (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/) might interest you, despite its length.

BTW, do you like КИНО? Пикник? Монгол Шуудан?

[KC]

it was NOT "capitalist" or "imperialist."

This is definitely true.



On the other hand, it was the bulwark against U.S. imperialism and blocked U.S. advances in the world at every turn; supported Communist revolutions; educated students from exploited nations in various Soviet universities; etc.

This is not.

[joe_the_red]

I agree with my Belorusian comrade, there is a lot of propaganda about the Soviet Union and in truth, it is difficult for someone who has been raised in the Western world to be able to sift through all of the capitalist propaganda garbage. U.S. and British Empire history books are full of half-truths, fractional-truths and outright lies regarding the Cold War and the Soviet Union. I trust someone who has lived it, and absolutely nothing that Western capitalist-owned media says. I even have a difficult time finding anything valid, and I look hard for news and information. The problem is that capitalist propaganda has invaded every source that I have available. "Neutral" online articles in english will always be biased capitalist propaganda, because it's in english. And all of the Soviet "defectors", a.k.a. the elitist bastard Tsarists, who came to the United States played into those lies. Trust nothing you hear from Western powers on the Soviet Union, and try to forget everything you "learned" in school about it. Chances are, 90% of it is false. Anyways... on to the post. Becoming a communist... well, my path started with socialism. I considered myself a socialist before I became a communist. Starting with socialism, I read materials and spoke to fellow leftists, and eventually, everything I read, everything they said was verified by what the capitalist empires are doing. Reading and talking to other communists is a good way to do it, but you should also get involved in activities. Join a local group, have discussions, protest the stupid things that capitalists do, do volunteer work, that last part is very important, because helping the poor, the common people, that is what we're all about. -Joe

[chegitz guevara]

This is definitely true.
This is not.
It's mostly true.

[chegitz guevara]

OH my god I agree with Chegitz!

We're both revolutionary communists. I suspect there's a great deal we agree on. :D

[#FF0000]

If you are at all interested in Anarchist Communism, the Anarchist FAQ (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/) might interest you, despite its length.

BTW, do you like КИНО? Пикник? Монгол Шуудан?

Seconding this.

Don't just look at Lenin as if he's the only Leftist theorist after Marx. Look into others too, Marxist and Anarchist alike.

[3A CCCP]

On the other hand, it was the bulwark against U.S. imperialism and blocked U.S. advances in the world at every turn; supported Communist revolutions; educated students from exploited nations in various Soviet universities; etc.

Zampano wrote:
This is not (true). Quote

How do you figure the USSR wasn't the bulwark against U.S. imperialism? Every time the U.S. tried to make a move the Soviet Union blocked it. It's not even necessary to make a list of what the USSR did to contain U.S. imperialism, all one has to do is look at what happened after the counter-revolution in December of 1991.

With no Soviet Union to consider the U.S. and NATO have run wild, overrunning Eastern Europe, invading Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan; militarily threatening many countries that won't kow-tow to globalism (i.e. imperialism); slapping economic sanctions on countries that don't want to follow the dictates of globalism, etc.

The world was a safer and more secure place when the Soviet Union was around to block U.S. imperialist advances.

3A CCCP!
Mikhail

[joe_the_red]

Great post. You know, that post tied in rather well to what I was saying earlier about the capitalist propaganda in the U.S. and British Empire. In classes here in the United States, they "teach" (more like brainwash/indoctrinate) you that the "great and benevolent, holy United States" was able to contain the "evil, godless" communists. But in truth, the Soviet Union contained U.S. imperialism, and after time, the Chinese helped, as well. It's sad to see the Chinese turning to capitalism. You can see that the U.S. tried to take over Korea and Vietnam. You know... the U.S. said before the Vietnam War that all of Vietnam could vote for a unified Vietnam under whichever system they chose. Well... the U.S. was only talking to the elitist pigs and so they thought they'd choose the capitalists. Well, ALL of North Vietnam wanted communism under Ho Chi Minh, and the majority in the South wanted it, as well. When the U.S. finally realised that Vietnam would vote (legally, remember, a vote that was set up and financed by the United States), the United States canceled the vote and said that they would just keep the people divided into North Vietnam and South Vietnam. Additionally, earlier, the conflict in Korea. The United States "intervened" when North Korea was going to liberate the south from their imperialism. It was a Civil War that the U.S. stepped into. And what is the status of South Korea? STILL occupied by the United States Imperialist forces. And just because Fidel Castro was a communist, the United States put sanctions on Cuba for a long, long time. Why? Castro wasn't declairing war on anyone, he wasn't a proponent for war either. Anyone can clearly see the United States attempts at imperialism that the Soviet Union checked and defeated. The Bay of Pigs incident, where U.S. president JFK tried to invade Cuba and colonialise it. Castro found out and they defeated the U.S. in the battle. Perhaps it was skilled intelligence work by the Soviet Union that discovered this and warned Castro. I don't know. But what I do know, is that any study of history displays clear U.S. imperlialism. And, if I remember correctly, imperialism became illegal following the 2nd World War. But the British Empire still controls several colonial areas to this day, too. The U.S. is no better, look at "American" Samoa and Guam, for example. There is no reason for this, except that the U.S. and British Empire are 2 capitalist-fascist-imperialist powers that nobody is around to fight anymore. Look what has happened since the end of the Soviet Union? The U.S. is waging war all over the world. Now tell me that the Soviet Union was a terrible country, tell me that it's better that there is no Soviet Union anymore. You can't, because we need the Soviet Union now more than ever. -Joe

[ckaihatsu]

I say it's all about building consciousness.

Once people really understand the basis of how the world is as fucked up as it is -- (and, *no*, it's *not* "human nature", goddammit) -- then they have a responsibility to take some sort of action, as we class-conscious people all do. No one can, or should, police that -- we can encourage and give direction, but ultimately everyone has to decide for themselves on how best to involve themselves in struggle.

Given the social environment you're in, you can do something more leftward than the next person, which may also involve discussing politics with that person / people.

While you're still relatively new to all of this, don't worry too much about theory -- it's certainly important, but you can also easily feel overwhelmed. Use your enthusiasm to approach people and find out what their concerns are. Listen to them, and get to really know where they're coming from. Maybe channel brief excerpts from this board to them if you think it would be appropriate to where they're at, without being overbearing or imposing.

We're all basically providing a service by doing this stuff, so that's all there is to it -- ask yourself if you've been providing a service, or not. Once you get people to the place where you're at right now, you're done -- the rest is then up to them.

I made a few illustrations which may be helpful -- you're invited to take a look:


Ideologies & Operations
http://tinyurl.com/yqotq9


Affinity Group Workflow Tracker
http://tinyurl.com/yvn2xq


Chris




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___

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ckaihatsu.elance.com

MySpace:
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CouchSurfing:
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[Malakangga]

read Das Kapital and Communist Manifesto.

[KC]

How do you figure the USSR wasn't the bulwark against U.S. imperialism?

The "not true" was more about the "supporting revolutions" than anything else. The vast majority of their "support" lead to the failure of many revolutions.

[TheDevil'sApprentice]

If its theory you're after, I also recomend 'An Anarchist FAQ'. Pretty Easy reading, very acessable, to the point and often quite high level.

Though personally I find that I tend to gain more from reading history than theory. If you're particularly interested in Ukrainian history, check out the makhnovist movement. After february 1917 they started organising and working towards a socialist society in defiance of the reformist regime. After the treaty of brest listovik, they led the revolution against the german occupation, creating the free teritories of ukraine. Primarily anarchist-communists (but incorporating members from all the major leftwing factions), they were commited to decentralised socialism from the bottom up as opposed to the centralised top-down bolshevik model. Their military achievements were staggering as they inflicted the crucial defeats on the whites. With great difficulty, and through massive attrocities they were crushed by the bolsheviks.

You can get an excellent first hand account by Peter Ashinov (one of them) online:
www ditext.com/arshinov/makhno.html

IMO the best historians account would be Skirda:
www amazon.com/Nestor-Makhno-Anarchys-Cossack-Struggle-1917-1921/dp/1902593685/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210963390&sr=1-1
Cracking read.

(spaces in the links as it wont let me post them normaly)