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Janus
2nd May 2008, 08:35
Nanosocialism by David M. Berube


Nanotechnology is much more than a technology. It's a revolution and a paradigm shift. We would leave a world of limited for one with limitless growth. Conceptions of value would lose most of their meanings. Work would no longer be the yardstick against which careers were measured. Off world and non corporeal existence would be likely. Institutions would become anachronistic and social systems would be completely redefined.
As such, nanotechnology will need to be ushered in by systemic change. One of the main reasons there is such a dark side to nanotechnology: we are speculating about a revolution from within the present world view. Can we reasonably expect terrorists and rogue leaders to restrain from using nanoweapons? Can we hope that a "good" nation becomes the leading force and set up active shields for everyone? Can anyone anticipate a beneficent technosociety establishing a nanarchal net to restrain dangerous nanoglap attacks?
When Drexler discusses social change, he does so as an afterthought, as a consequence of the breakthrough. If history has taught us anything, it is that forethought and systemic redesign may need to precede monumental change. The arrival of nuclear energy led to horrendous weapons and a generation of Cold War apprehension and insecurity. We shouldn't hope for the best as Ed Regis suggests. We should plan for systemic change as a precursor to the breakthrough.
For that matter, it is highly unlikely nanotechnology will ever see the light of day in this country without systemic change. Furthermore, if nanotechnology arrives without systemic change as a prerequisite, nanotechnology will be dark, dangerous, and most probably the product of military research.
The U.S.A. is a corporate capitalist state. Most recently, we went to war with an underarmed and overzealous Middle Eastern nation to help maintain the price of oil for some of our corporate capitalist allies, Western Europe and Japan. It is likely that wars in the future will be fought less on principle than on profit. Our failure to resolve the issues associated with ethnic violence in the Balkans demonstrates our inability to make decisions based on the intrinsic worth of ideas like freedom and livelihood. On the other hand, profit is calculable.
There is a clear incentive for the military to develop nanotechnology as a weapon, both offensive and defensive. Military logic dictates that there is always some unseen enemy who is preparing some attack based on some unknown motive with some bizarre new weapon. If nanotechnology can be used as a weapon, our security analysts will assume it will be and they
will use that reasoning to support initiatives to develop nanoweapons of their own. They will argue that a workable defense will require a prototypical weapon against which a defense can be designed and deployed. In comes as no surprise that the Office of Technology Assessment, the U.S. Army, and other government organizations have begun to seriously study nanoweaponry. For that matter, Drexler himself recently spoke with N.A.T.O. planners about nanowar issues.
The argument found in the nanotechnology literatures suggests that if nanotechnology can be developed in the public arena (the market), that forum might be able to lift the veils of secrecy and expose military applications making the genie impotent. Arguably, weapons of openness are not secret but they can be no less provocative and deadly. The assumption ignores the fact that not all nation states are led by rational leaders. If nanotechnology is released as simple household products, reverse engineering guarantees the likes of Gaddafi, Kim Il-Jung, Castro, and Hussein would fairly easily be able to make their first nanoweapons soon thereafter.
Returning to an earlier premise, it is improbable the U.S.A. capitalist technocorporations will research the breakthrough. First, there is little advantage to develop a technology which would slash profitability. Once the limits to growth are lifted, the price associated with limits vaporizes. Second, corporatism is founded on designed obsolescence and the aftermarket, both
of which are irrelevant in a nanoeconomy. Nanoproducts do not break down, and repairs and spare parts are product inclusive. Third, corporatism has a nasty habit of killing the competition. We are about to enter the next millennium chained to the internal combustion engine (ICE). Competitive engines are available, but the empowered corporations have acquired the patents, and these engines will never run until the ICE has outlived its profitability. But corporations are researching and developing nanoproducts! Foresight Update, Ed Regis, magazine, and newspaperslist such applications. Wrong! As everyone who has read more than a handful of material on the subject knows, advances have been in micromachinery and microelectronics. As developments and applications have grown smaller, they entered the nanorealm and marketers and reporters have adopted the term nanotechnology as a scalar reference. Nanotechnology, in terms of Drexlerian mechanosynthesis, may be inevitable and may be right around the corner, but it isn't here. At least not in the public corporate arena.
The answer may be systemic change as a foresight imperative. We need to reconsider fundamental political economic change. One of the most plausible options would be a rediscovery of socialism as a precursor to the breakthrough. Both economic and ideological socialism would offer a restructured system which would rein in the capitalistic self-interests of
corporatism. It would also renegotiate international rivalry and reduce the motives for warfighting. Wedded to nanotechnology and limitless growth, it would reduce the resource competition which is the foundational cause of nearly all aggression.
http://marukuwato.multiply.com/journal/item/162

What are your thoughts on this essay and the concept of "nanosocialism" in general?

mikelepore
6th May 2008, 22:59
The beginning must be socialism. Any intelligent use of technology can only come after that.

If capitalism exists when nanotechnology is developed, the machine will probably be sold for ten times its cost of production, and will work for only one year and then automatically destroy itself unless the customer pays a licence fee renewal. If they sell machines that can replicate themselves, the customer's credit card will probably be charged at the time of each replication.

Whatever capitalists pay to develop, they will find a way to ruin the potential of.

Dimentio
6th May 2008, 23:07
The beginning must be socialism. Any intelligent use of technology can only come after that.

If capitalism exists when nanotechnology is developed, the machine will probably be sold for ten times its cost of production, and will work for only one year and then automatically destroy itself unless the customer pays a licence fee renewal. If they sell machines that can replicate themselves, the customer's credit card will probably be charged at the time of each replication.

Whatever capitalists pay to develop, they will find a way to ruin the potential of.

On the contrary, it is technology which will break the neck of the hen of capitalism. First after that, we could have a more egalitarian system (not saying that the capitalists somewhat will disappear).

MarxSchmarx
12th May 2008, 06:09
If capitalism exists when nanotechnology is developed, the machine will probably be sold for ten times its cost of production, and will work for only one year and then automatically destroy itself unless the customer pays a licence fee renewal. If they sell machines that can replicate themselves, the customer's credit card will probably be charged at the time of each replication.

Why do you think this hasn't become a nearly universal phenomenon in software, where such shenanigans are pretty straightforward?

ÑóẊîöʼn
12th May 2008, 19:23
If capitalism exists when nanotechnology is developed, the machine will probably be sold for ten times its cost of production, and will work for only one year and then automatically destroy itself unless the customer pays a licence fee renewal. If they sell machines that can replicate themselves, the customer's credit card will probably be charged at the time of each replication.

Like software protection, it is without a doubt that some enterprising nanohacker will get around such measures.

MarxSchmarx
13th May 2008, 07:51
Like software protection, it is without a doubt that some enterprising nanohacker will get around such measures.

I thought you need like fancy machines and chemicals and labspace to pull that off with nanotech stuff, whereas pretty much anyone with a computer and an internet connection can make it work for software?

ÑóẊîöʼn
13th May 2008, 18:30
I thought you need like fancy machines and chemicals and labspace to pull that off with nanotech stuff, whereas pretty much anyone with a computer and an internet connection can make it work for software?

All it takes is one person with the requisite tools and materials to distribute them to all his or her mates who will then pass on the knowledge to their friends and so on and so forth. The internet will serve to accelerate this process, and if the nanotech is self-replicating then it will be even easier.

When nanotech first appears on the market for the average consumer, things will be "in control" from the point of view of the corporations. But as nanotech becomes more ubiquitous and/or self-replicating, the grip that nanotech companies will have on their products will loosen considerably.

Dean
15th May 2008, 01:40
Technology will not save us from capitalism. Only we can save ourselves - to invest faith in machines to fulfil our own social concerns is to defeat ourselves.

ÑóẊîöʼn
15th May 2008, 17:14
Technology will not save us from capitalism. Only we can save ourselves - to invest faith in machines to fulfil our own social concerns is to defeat ourselves.

I don't recall anyone saying anything to this effect, so I don't understand why you're saying this.

Jazzratt
15th May 2008, 18:04
Technology will not save us from capitalism.

Technology serves to save us from work. Of course we need to destroy capitalism before we will reap the full benefits of our technology, this is assumed by most technocrats and technology-positive leftists.

You've either misunderstood the thinking of techno-progressives or you're wilfully hacking away at strawmen. Given what I know about you though I'm inclined to believe the former.

Dean
15th May 2008, 19:38
Technology serves to save us from work. Of course we need to destroy capitalism before we will reap the full benefits of our technology, this is assumed by most technocrats and technology-positive leftists.

You've either misunderstood the thinking of techno-progressives or you're wilfully hacking away at strawmen. Given what I know about you though I'm inclined to believe the former.

Haha, "techno-progressives." What does that mean? Someone who is obsessed with technology-worship and happens to be progressive?

I have never seen any realistic link between technology and leftist theory. The Technocrat movement is nothing more than a simplistic view of bureaucracy and social control, eerily categorized as progressive.

Saving humans from working is a minor, really irrelevant aspect of social progress at it's very best. We had enough tech in the 19th century to limit humans to a 20hr work week. Communism and Anarchism are about social, not mechanical progress, and saving us from workign won't change the structure of society.

TheDifferenceEngine
23rd May 2008, 19:07
Haha, "techno-progressives." What does that mean? Someone who is obsessed with technology-worship and happens to be progressive?

I have never seen any realistic link between technology and leftist theory. The Technocrat movement is nothing more than a simplistic view of bureaucracy and social control, eerily categorized as progressive.

Saving humans from working is a minor, really irrelevant aspect of social progress at it's very best. We had enough tech in the 19th century to limit humans to a 20hr work week. Communism and Anarchism are about social, not mechanical progress, and saving us from workign won't change the structure of society.


Technological advance is the only true progression, industrial technology heralded the end of feudalism and a step toward gender equality (Men and Women can do the same job in a factory)

Social and Technological advance are the same thing.

MarxSchmarx
26th May 2008, 08:45
Saving humans from working is a minor, really irrelevant aspect of social progress at it's very best. We had enough tech in the 19th century to limit humans to a 20hr work week.Is it really irrelevant? Two modern developments have made socialism very possible (1) the socialization of production (e.g., large-scale factories, "industrial" agriculture and scientific management), and (2) overcoming scarcity of material goods. True, a lot of this was already underway in some parts of the globe in the 19th century. But although socialism was theoretically possible in the 1700s we need only ask the Amish how well that worked out for them.


Communism and Anarchism are about social, not mechanical progress, and saving us from workign won't change the structure of society.Your point is well taken, the only problem is that nobody here is seriously equating communism/anarchism with what you are calling "mechanical progress".

Dean
30th May 2008, 02:14
Is it really irrelevant? Two modern developments have made socialism very possible (1) the socialization of production (e.g., large-scale factories, "industrial" agriculture and scientific management), and (2) overcoming scarcity of material goods. True, a lot of this was already underway in some parts of the globe in the 19th century. But although socialism was theoretically possible in the 1700s we need only ask the Amish how well that worked out for them.
And the technocrats propose that we eliminate that social aspect of our economic organization.


Your point is well taken, the only problem is that nobody here is seriously equating communism/anarchism with what you are calling "mechanical progress".Yes, some are. for example:


Technological advance is the only true progression

On the contrary, it is technology which will break the neck of the hen of capitalism.
There are a myriad from serpent, for example. In any case, I don't see technocracy in any of its forms as a viable ideology at all - it is really amazingly dry.

Jazzratt
30th May 2008, 09:53
There are a myriad from serpent, for example. In any case, I don't see technocracy in any of its forms as a viable ideology at all - it is really amazingly dry.

Well that was shockingly well argued, I'll just go off in search of a wetter economic system :rolleyes:

Hit The North
30th May 2008, 16:59
Technological advance is the only true progression, industrial technology heralded the end of feudalism and a step toward gender equality (Men and Women can do the same job in a factory)

Social and Technological advance are the same thing.

According to your schema, the industrial revolution would have taken place within feudalism in order to 'herald' its demise.

Reorganization of the relations of production eliminated feudalism. It took at least one hundred years of development of bourgeois society before the outbreak of the industrial revolution.

Dean
30th May 2008, 20:24
Well that was shockingly well argued, I'll just go off in search of a wetter economic system :rolleyes:

Yes, look for a post where I don't make specific arguments about technocracy to brush me off as empty. You'll have to try better Jazzy.

Shahzad
14th June 2008, 01:25
Technology will not save us from capitalism.

Perhaps not but it can be an extremely powerful tool. When self replicating nanomachines are ubiquitous what need then for factories? The value of something will reduce to the value of it's informational content.