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Sky
30th April 2008, 06:05
Reverend Jeremiah Wright appeared on Bill Moyers' program and defended himself against the racist bullies in the corporate media. Wright demonstrated that he is not a fanatic but is just a very well-read and principled man with a commitment to justice.

The racist media's lynching of Reverend Jeremiah Wright constitutes not just an attack on Senator Obama, but is tantamount to slandering the entire African-American community. Reverend Wright has been savagely assailed by racist fanatics in the corporate-owned media precisely because he advocates an independent brand of Black politics. Blacks that speak out against the monstrous foreign and domestic policies of the Washington ruling circles and highlight the savage brutality that characterizes American history are slandered as angry, lunatic racists. Nothing said by Reverend Wright is or should be controversial. That the United States provoked the events of September 11th, organized terrorism against Nicaragua and other countries, and engaged in biological warfare is irrefutable.

The message from the racist media is that Black people must be traitorous sellouts like Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, and others in order to survive. Successful African-Americans such as Minister Farrakhan that pursue a path of independence and dignity for the African-American community are only subjected to relentless slander by the racist media.

Unicorn
30th April 2008, 09:32
Allegations that the US government created HIV in laboratories were published in the Soviet press in the 1980s. Perhaps Jeremiah Wright read Pravda?

Os Cangaceiros
30th April 2008, 10:06
I'd like to see some solid evidence that the US engineered AIDS as a weapon to kill black people.

As of yet, I've seen none.

At this point, I have to wonder if Wright is deliberately trying to sabotage Obama's campaign. I mean, his comments immediately prompted Obama to say that he was offended, and essentially he disowned Wright. I think this may be a thorn in his side all the way up to the primary, albeit a very, very stupid one. It's amazing that the media will focus on whether or not a candidate has a flag pin on his lapel or what a candidate's reverend said when there are people dying in a war. Not to mention the economic situation. Everytime a story comes on about Wright or the presidential campaigns in general I want to throw something at my TV.

Bud Struggle
30th April 2008, 14:23
Reverend Wright delivered the knock out punch to Barak Obama's chances of becomming President of the United States.

Os Cangaceiros
30th April 2008, 14:26
Reverend Wright delivered the knock out punch to Barak Obama's chances of becomming President of the United States.

I suspect that if Obama doesn't get the nomination, a good percentage of his supporters will refuse to vote for Hillary, and the Democratic Party will fragment into infighting. They're already at each others throats as it is. I'd be interested to see what would happen if Obama, who as it stands today has the most delegates and popular votes, gets usurped by Clinton.

I bet that McCain is loving this.

Awful Reality
30th April 2008, 14:45
Allegations that the US government created HIV in laboratories were published in the Soviet press in the 1980s. Perhaps Jeremiah Wright read Pravda?

There's evidence that that may in fact be true. However, Wright claimed the the sole purpose of such a virus was to kill blacks.

He's shooting himself in the foot by defending someone like Farrakhan, who has no support in any community.

Bud Struggle
30th April 2008, 15:15
I suspect that if Obama doesn't get the nomination, a good percentage of his supporters will refuse to vote for Hillary, and the Democratic Party will fragment into infighting. They're already at each others throats as it is. I'd be interested to see what would happen if Obama, who as it stands today has the most delegates and popular votes, gets usurped by Clinton.

I bet that McCain is loving this.

This is all really dreadful news for the Democrats--who after Bush were thought to be shoe ins for the Presidentcy. I kind of like Obama myself, he'd give a kinder gentler image to the United States around the world.

On the other hand though, Obama's a bit young and inexperienced for the job. McCain will do just fine. :thumbup1:


The message from the racist media is that Black people must either be traitorous sellouts like Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, and others in order to survive. Successful African-Americans such as Minister Farrakhan that pursue a path of independence and dignity for the African-American community are only subjected to relentless slander by the racist media.

I actually see this post as being somewhat racist. There is and should be no difference between Black and white Americans. When you call Blacks that don't support a political agenda "sellouts" it infers that there should be only ONE Politically Correct agenda for Blacks--they can't as whites do, take a variety of political positions on things. That segragates them to second class status--which of course is racist.

Pawn Power
30th April 2008, 19:10
Obama’s ‘Race Neutral’ Strategy Unravels of its Own Contradictions


The world views of Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Sen. Barack Obama were incompatible from the start, just as the mythical American Manifest Destiny world view is directly at odds with the facts as perceived by Blacks in the United States. Wright finally forced Obama to choose sides in the conflict of racial/historical visions, and in doing so, performed a service on behalf of clarity. Obama lashed out in a startlingly personal manner, calling Wright a "caricature" of himself and linking the minister to forces that give "comfort to those who prey on hate." Rev. Wright exposed the flimsy tissues of so-called "race neutrality" in a nation founded on racial oppression.

full article:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=603&Itemid=1

Sky
30th April 2008, 20:17
I actually see this post as being somewhat racist. There is and should be no difference between Black and white Americans.
The inescapable fact is that there are significant differences between Black and white Americans whether they be social or cultural. Blacks have their own communities, religious institutions, traditions, and are bonded by a common social and economic life. The past forty years has demonstrated that it is futile for Blacks to try and become part of white America, for they can never achieve equality in such a fundamentally racist society.

Bud Struggle
30th April 2008, 20:51
The inescapable fact is that there are significant differences between Black and white Americans whether they be social or cultural. Blacks have their own communities, religious institutions, traditions, and are bonded by a common social and economic life. The past forty years has demonstrated that it is futile for Blacks to try and become part of white America, for they can never achieve equality in such a fundamentally racist society.

Nonsense. Obama's presidential candidacy alone, let alone the high positions of Powell, Rice, Thomas and others suggest that Blacks (though granted, some racism still exists,) can achieve any post in American society they wish.

Sky
30th April 2008, 22:41
Nonsense. Obama's presidential candidacy alone, let alone the high positions of Powell, Rice, Thomas and others suggest that Blacks (though granted, some racism still exists,) can achieve any post in American society they wish.Except for their physical appearance, there is nothing Black about any of these individuals including Senator Obama. Remember that Senator Obama was born and raised in white America and only later in his life did he try to join the Black community. When quislings like Clarence Thomas take the side of racists against the interests of the Black community, they behave in a way that is unbecoming of a Black person. The media lynching of Obama over hints of his blackness demonstrates that Black people have to be completely subservient to the demands of the white elite. It has to be remembered that Obama has had such extraordinary political success primarily because he presents himself as "post-racial."

And the implication I'm making is not that Blacks cannot be "successful." There are plenty of successful Blacks such as Reverand Jesse Jackson who are loyal to their community.

Comrade Rage
30th April 2008, 22:53
He's shooting himself in the foot by defending someone like Farrakhan, who has no support in any community.Actually, he has some fledgling support in my hometown, his speeches are sometimes replayed on a local radio station; and he has a local office here.

I really don't get why people are still talking about Reverend Wright.:confused:

Unicorn
30th April 2008, 23:04
When quislings like Clarence Thomas take the side of racists against the interests of the Black community, they behave in a way that is unbecoming of a Black person.
You are making a racist accusation. People have no duty to hold particular political opinions because of their race. It is racist or nationalist to think that people should be "loyal" to their race.

Condoleezza Rice is not a "traitor" because she is a black person and a member of the Bush administration. She is just another neocon asshole, no different from the white neocons.

pusher robot
30th April 2008, 23:15
Really, Sky? Racial loyalty?

I suppose that makes the KKK good guys, right? Not being traitors to their race and all?

Sky
30th April 2008, 23:21
I suppose that makes the KKK good guys, right? Not being traitors to their race and all?

To imply that Black patriotism is akin to the KKK is inflammatory. Frankly such a characterization is tantamount to racism against Blacks as a whole. While Black nationalists advocate a path of self-determination, dignity, and independence for the Black community, racists dream of restoring a 1920s America of savage Jim Crowism and terror against Black people.

It is racist or nationalist to think that people should be "loyal" to their race.
It may be nationalist, but it certainly is not racist. If one country invades the fatherland, it is the obligation of all people to stay loyal to their nation and resist aggression.


She is just another neocon asshole, no different from the white neocons.

I disagree. There is a qualitative difference between white racists and those quisling Blacks that collaborate with them. The Nazis were not nearly as bad as those traitors that voluntarily collaborated with them.


Condoleezza Rice is not a "traitor" because she is a black person and a member of the Bush administration.
The point is that treason is based not on one's identity but on their actions. Some Black people would rightly characterize the likes of Clarence Thomas to be traitors based on their systematic opposition to Black interests.

Unicorn
30th April 2008, 23:46
It may be nationalist, but it certainly is not racist. If one country invades the fatherland, it is the obligation of all people to stay loyal to their nation and resist aggression.
American Blacks are Americans, not a separate nation. Generally, blacks don't see themselves as a "nation" and they don't have any separationist desires. There are good anecdotes how Southern blacks laughed their asses off when Stalinist communist party organizers tried to convince them that a black "nation" exists in the Black Belt.

American blacks see themselves as Americans, want to integrate to the society and the task of the communists is to make the society egalitarian, not exclude the blacks outside it.

Sky
1st May 2008, 00:15
I respectfully disagree. I find that African-Americans meet the necessary prerequisites for nationhood. Although African-Americans speak the same language and have other similarities with white America, they still posess a distinct identity. African-Americans are not a nation solely because of the color of their skin but because of their distinct social and economic life and psychological belonging to the Black community. In the coastal regions of the Arabian peninsula there exist many people with negroid morphological features. Yet, these people are not considered to be a separate ethnic entity the way African-Americans are.

Robert
1st May 2008, 00:57
"there are significant differences between Black and white Americans"

Wrong. As we have learned here, there is really no such thing as race.

Sky
1st May 2008, 01:08
Wrong. As we have learned here, there is really no such thing as race. This is untrue. Race in the United States is a social construct.

RGacky3
1st May 2008, 02:02
It may be nationalist, but it certainly is not racist. If one country invades the fatherland, it is the obligation of all people to stay loyal to their nation and resist aggression.

So being loyal to ones 'race' is nationalist? hmmm, I thought nationalism was being loyal to ones nation, and being loyal to your race, as if it was better or different than others, was racist.


African-Americans are not a nation solely because of the color of their skin but because of their distinct social and economic life and psychological belonging to the Black community. In the coastal regions of the Arabian peninsula there exist many people with negroid morphological features. Yet, these people are not considered to be a separate ethnic entity the way African-Americans are.

First of all saying "African Americans" is rediculous because many come from the Carribian, and most have absolutely no ties to Africa, the same way most American whites don't have ties to Europe. Second, Black has everything to do with your skin color, thats why its called black. Cultural differences between black and white culture don't have to do with the race as much as class, most people in the so-called "black culture" are of lower class, and many blacks are upper class and are part of your so called "white culture" (I put those terms in quotes because they are stupid terms), also that being said, poor whites are also very culturally different from rich whites or blacks, the same goes for hispanics.


Black interests.

There is no such thing as black interests, no black person, or white, or hispanic has any obligation to their race, why should they, if one does it all have a moral right to. If you say its a Black persons obligation to stand by other blacks, then it is white obligation to stand by other whites, no matter what. That mr. Sky, is racism.

Bud Struggle
1st May 2008, 02:23
RGacky: You nailed it.

Os Cangaceiros
1st May 2008, 02:49
When quislings like Clarence Thomas take the side of racists against the interests of the Black community, they behave in a way that is unbecoming of a Black person.

:rolleyes:

Lector Malibu
1st May 2008, 02:49
I respectfully disagree. I find that African-Americans meet the necessary prerequisites for nationhood. Although African-Americans speak the same language and have other similarities with white America, they still posess a distinct identity. African-Americans are not a nation solely because of the color of their skin but because of their distinct social and economic life and psychological belonging to the Black community. In the coastal regions of the Arabian peninsula there exist many people with negroid morphological features. Yet, these people are not considered to be a separate ethnic entity the way African-Americans are.

The only reason why the black community exist is because blacks have had trouble integrating into the white community.

Bud Struggle
1st May 2008, 14:11
The only reason why the black community exist is because blacks have had trouble integrating into the white community.

There are all sorts of "hyphenated" communities in the US. Each one doing their funky little things and having their funky little rituals and celebrations, music and expressions--but each one blending into the whole when it's important to be part of the body politic.

Sometimes African-Americans like being with African-Americans in their cultural heritage, sometimes Italian-Americans like doing the same with Italian-Americans, etc. There's no exclusivness to this--anyone can go to an Italian-American street festival and enjoy themselves. Anyone can listen to jazz and appreciate the contributions of Blacks to our culture.

There is nothing wrong with being part of an ethnic group in America--as a matter of fact, it's a good thing. It adds texture and depth to an individual and to American society as a whole.

African-Americans should be no more be of one mind on politics than any other ethnic group in this country. The different political bents that African-Americans have been showing in politics in the last 20 years is a sign that racism is dying at last in America.

Wanted Man
1st May 2008, 14:23
Rev. Wright: ridiculed for telling the truth
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
By: Eugene Puryear
Racist ruling class decides whether a candidate is 'electable'
The following is a major statement written today by Eugene Puryear, the PSL vice presidential candidate running alongside Gloria La Riva in the "People Over Profits" presidential campaign. Please forward widely to friends, fellow activists, co-workers, and social networking sites. Click here to volunteer (http://www.pslweb.org/site/Survey?SURVEY_ID=1461&ACTION_REQUIRED=URI_ACTION_USER_REQUESTS) in the VotePSL campaign.
http://www.pslweb.org/images/content/pagebuilder/44543.jpg One of the features of Senator Barack Obama’s campaign that has attracted widespread enthusiasm is the implicit hopeful message that he personifies a new era of reconciliation and unity between Black and white people. But he has decidedly avoided the history and substance of Black national oppression. This dialogue—the real path to unity—would in itself indict the ruling establishment when articulated in full. Obama’s scripted message, on the other hand, in no way offends the racist corporate media and the ruling class that stands behind it.

To be deemed “electable,” Obama must convince this ruling class that he will support their interests, and he must show himself unsusceptible to the anti-imperialist voices of the Black community.

Jeremiah Wright has now become a spokesperson for such voices and he has been the target of relentless vilification and ridicule in the capitalist-owned media. His presentation at the National Press Club in particular represented a stinging indictment of the ruling class for its role in slavery, Jim Crow racism and of imperialism. He identified himself with a theological tradition that represented the viewpoint of those “whose lives were ground under, mangled and destroyed by the ruling classes.”

Wright also spoke out about September 11th, Iraq, Palestine, and the overall agenda of U.S. foreign policy. He defended his prior claim that U.S. imperialism abroad, which has always included ample use of terror, laid the basis for the September 11th attacks. When questioned about his patriotism, Wright noted he had served six years in the armed forces, and asked, “How many years did [Vice President Dick] Cheney serve?”

He continued, “My goddaughter’s unit just arrived in Iraq this week, while those who call me unpatriotic have used their positions of privilege to avoid military service, while sending over 4,000 American boys and girls of every race to die over a lie.”

His comments on these issues would be right at home in an anti-war demonstration or teach-in. As such, it was a speech that under normal circumstances the corporate media would never play. While criticisms of the tactics of the Iraq war have become fashionable in the corporate media, they consider such vibrant anti-imperialism to be practically illegal on their airwaves.

But because of the controversy revolving around Wright, this time they broadcast it in full to millions of viewers. Wright’s presentation was charismatic and persuasive. It could not be in the least characterized as “anti-white.” In fact, Wright would strike many as a voice of moderation. Wright proclaimed that the “Black church’s role in the fight for equality and justice, from the 1700s up until 2008, has always had as its core the nonnegotiable doctrine of reconciliation.” Wright continued, “Reconciliation does not mean that blacks become whites or whites become blacks.” He emphasized that in liberation theology, “We root out any teaching of superiority, inferiority, hatred, or prejudice.” “Only then,” Wright concluded his speech, “will liberation, transformation, and reconciliation become realities and cease being ever elusive ideals.”

Wright’s presentation alone may have altered the consciousness of many viewers, including many white viewers, about the meaning of Black self-determination. His message, far from being “divisive,” described a unity far more profound than that prescribed by the politicians.

The corporate media springs into action

The corporate media—whether liberal or conservative—could not let this stand. Instead of dealing with the substance of Wright’s presentation, they again reduced it to sound bite snippets. This was not just a case of bad journalism. They had to conceal the nature of his presentation because he was indicting them.

Wright has been viciously attacked on two accounts. One, he has refused to condemn Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam. Wright made clear, "Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains. He did not put me in slavery." Secondly, citing the record of medical mistreatment of the Black community, Wright defended his assertion that HIV/AIDS could possibly have been a creation of the U.S. government. “Based on this Tuskegee experiment… I believe our government is capable of doing anything.” Tuskegee was a “scientific experiment," in which the government left African American men infected with syphilis to die.
The ruling establishment has focused on these perfectly justifiable positions as a way to demonize Wright personally, and obscure his overall political message.

In wall-to-wall media coverage, we hear that the message of Rev. Wright has jeopardized the future of Obama’s campaign because it is unpalatable to white working-class voters. The same corporate media that never countenances the language of “working class”—before there was only one big happy America—have now become experts in class politics. The carefully primped talking heads on Fox News and CNN have suddenly become the spokespeople for the blue-collar white worker.

But the corporate media has left out the most important fact: it is they who decide what is palatable. Wright has not come under attack because his message is unacceptable to white workers. Wright’s crime was that he put out a message unacceptable to the white racist bourgeoisie. There are no white workers scripting the text for Anderson Cooper or Sean Hannity. The multinational working class—Black, Latino, Arab, Asian and white—has nothing to do with it. The working class, regardless of nationality, is a subject class, subjected to the media that molds public opinion. It is this ruling class that formulated Obama’s “electability” crisis.

The pro-establishment pundits pose everything in terms of white and Black. This may on its face seem valid because racism is still the dominant reality in the United States. But in the context of the unremitting attacks on Wright it obscures their class hatred of Wright’s vision—a vision of a multinational social justice movement. And it is not just the pundits talking. The New York Times, the most important anchor of the capitalist class media, could not be more vicious. They instantly applauded Obama for rejecting the “racism and paranoia of his former pastor.” All reality has been turned upside down. Rev. Wright and those who protest slavery, racism and imperialism are labeled as “insane” and “racist” by the system that has accumulated its wealth through slavery, racism and imperialism.

The attacks on Rev. Wright have also been pumped up by Hillary Clinton and her chief campaigner, former president Bill Clinton. Appearing on Bill O'Reilly's show of Fox News, Clinton stumped for right-wing and racist votes. She declared that she was "offended and outraged" by Wright. She was not outraged when the Clinton White House eliminated 7 million children from welfare benefits in 1996, dropped 23,000 bombs on Yugoslavia in 1999 or took the lives of 5,000 Iraqi babies every month as a consequence of the severe economic sanctions that deprived Iraqis of food and medicine. Nothing to be offended about there.

Obama’s dilemma

The new furor surrounding Wright has created a dilemma for Obama. Since the press conference, Wright has been called every name in the book. Obama himself joined in, angrily calling Wright “disrespectful” in a speech that amounted to a full break with his former pastor.

This is yet another example of what Wright meant when he explained that Obama “says what he has to say to get elected.” But Obama was not forced to denounce Wright to remain acceptable to white voters. He denounced Wright to remain acceptable to the capitalist class; this is an essential precondition for any candidate who wants to get elected.

Nonetheless, Obama’s forceful denunciation of Jeremiah Wright amounts to a denunciation of a large section of African Americans. His accusation that Wright was “self-centered” by speaking the truth publicly, means that it is selfish for African Americans to make demands of Obama that hurt him with the racist ruling class and racist white voters. According to this logic, we should just be happy he is running. A recent Los Angeles Wave article revealed that Obama has given virtually no interviews or advertising dollars to Black publishers. This is yet another sign that he takes the Black vote entirely for granted.

In his highly publicized March 18 speech, Obama had said he “could no more disown Reverend Wright than [he] could disown the entire black community.” A month later he has effectively disowned Wright, and the Black community is left to wonder where—or if—it stands inside the Obama campaign. While the first denunciation of Wright could be explained away as political posturing, the second will not be so easily forgiven.

Obama’s appeal up until now has been based on the historical symbolism and promise of being the first Black president as well as his inspirational but vague program for “change.” Obama’s rank-and-file supporters are yearning for change. They are fed up with the war, racism and injustice. But his program has been carefully crafted to satisfy the needs and interests of US corporate capitalism. He has insisted that if he is elected he will adopt a foreign policy similar to that of George H.W. Bush. He praises Bush senior for his handling of the 1991 Iraq war. Over 100,000 Iraqis were killed while US casualties were under two hundred in that high tech massacre. Bush senior’s assault on Iraq came 13 months after he ordered the invasion of Panama in 1989.

On the current Iraq war, Obama has committed to leaving some unspecified number of troops in the country. He has refused to commit to getting troops out by the end of his first term. He supports “over-the-horizon” forces, which will position tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers in strategic locations to project U.S. dominance against the peoples of the Middle East. He promises to work to end the “mentality that took us to war.” But it was the Pentagon war machine—not a mentality—that took us to war, and that war machine he intends to leave in place. If that is not enough, Obama recently pledged to support Gen. David Petraeus, chief architect of the Bush strategy in Iraq.

Obama has offered full-throated support for Israel, and pledged to continue to send billions of dollars in money and arms there every year. He supports the war in Afghanistan, and has proposed waging war against both Iran and Pakistan. He makes a great deal of his willingness to meet with enemy leaders, but on Cuba, for instance, he refuses to enter into unconditional negotiations. His condition: that the Cuban revolution be dismantled and overthrown.

Rev. Wright should keep saying what he is saying. He’s speaking for millions of people in this country who oppose the policies of imperialism. His intervention has again exposed the character of the mainstream media, and it gives us a chance to engage with larger numbers of people on the issues of racism and national oppression. On all the key points, Rev. Wright is right, and he deserves the support of all progressive and revolutionary people.

Eugene Puryear is available for interviews. Contact [email protected] ([email protected]) for more information.


--Articles can be reprinted with credit to the Party for Socialism and Liberation--

Sky
1st May 2008, 23:21
there is really no such thing as race

Races are historically formed, geographic groups of people linked by a common origin manifested in common inherited morphological and physiological traits that vary within certain limits. The races are intraspecific, taxonomic categories in a state of dynamic equilibrium. Although they vary in space and time in their interaction with the environment, they possess a certain genetically determined stability. Taking into consideration the basic morphological, physiological, and psychological traits of contemporary humans, the similarity among the races is great, and the differences are insubstantial. The data of anthropology and other sciences prove that all the races are descended from one species of fossil hominid.

Many racial traits that originated as mutations acquired adaptive significance and, as a result of natural selection in the early stages of racial genesis became established and spread among the populations of various geographic environments.

With the development of the productive forces and the creation of artificial cultural environment through collective labor, the role of natural selection in the genesis of race gradually declined. As economic, social, and cultural interaction, as well as biological interaction, develops among different peoples, the boundaries of the geographic ranges of the races are blurred, and new, local combinations of the different racial traits of a single human race emerge.

Lector Malibu
1st May 2008, 23:38
There are all sorts of "hyphenated" communities in the US. Each one doing their funky little things and having their funky little rituals and celebrations, music and expressions--but each one blending into the whole when it's important to be part of the body politic.

Sometimes African-Americans like being with African-Americans in their cultural heritage, sometimes Italian-Americans like doing the same with Italian-Americans, etc. There's no exclusivness to this--anyone can go to an Italian-American street festival and enjoy themselves. Anyone can listen to jazz and appreciate the contributions of Blacks to our culture.

There is nothing wrong with being part of an ethnic group in America--as a matter of fact, it's a good thing. It adds texture and depth to an individual and to American society as a whole.

African-Americans should be no more be of one mind on politics than any other ethnic group in this country. The different political bents that African-Americans have been showing in politics in the last 20 years is a sign that racism is dying at last in America.

Tom hold up. I should have been more clear. What we consider black culture in America is mostly a direct result of the hardships blacks faced early on in America.

For example , Blues is a musical adaptation of the voice of an oppressed people. If you know the blues you know this to be true. Yes the early American Blacks created the blues as a response to the pain of poverty and segregation and racism. Had those elements had not been there we would not have the blues.

Another example soul food and southern black cooking. Alot of these comfort food dishes are actually as a result of having very limited food resources. If Blacks had had the same resources as whites at the time it's safe to say alot of these dishes would not have been created. Soul food is the food of an oppressed people historically.

Also don't forget that when blacks were slaves, family's where split up separated and family traditions where lost over time.

Therefore what we Americans define as the black community or black culture is a direct reaction to being un -able to integrate into white society and the necessity create a culture and maintain roots of identity.

Oh and I'm all fine with ethnic groups assembling and celebrating their culture.

Bud Struggle
2nd May 2008, 05:43
Yea. Cultural tecture is one thing--opression is another. Granted. But we must all celebrate our cultural differences whatever the cause. And indeed there are things we should atone for in our past--but we always should understand the beauty in the human ability to over come.

LM, sorry if I misread your post.

Bluetongue
2nd May 2008, 22:28
Re: US gov't creating HIV


There's evidence that that may in fact be true.

There's no evidence of this WHATSOEVER. HIV has been found in stored blood dating back to the 50's. There was basically zip in the way of biotechnology then.

Sky
10th May 2008, 21:12
It is racist or nationalist to think that people should be "loyal" to their race.


I would respectfully disagree when it comes to African-Americans. The song "Fuck Tha Police" by NWA specifically condemns those Blacks that serve in the white police force: "But don't let it b e a black and a white one/Cuz they slam ya down to the street top/Black police showin out for the white cop."

Black people are obligated to stay loyal to their community since there is an absence of a notable Black bourgeoisie. Those Blacks that collaborate with the institutions of the white ruling classes essentially commit treason against their community.

Unicorn
10th May 2008, 21:26
There's no evidence of this WHATSOEVER. HIV has been found in stored blood dating back to the 50's. There was basically zip in the way of biotechnology then.
The original source of Wright's claim is KGB intelligence. The former KGB general Yevgeny Primakov stated that KGB circulated the information and some American newspapers reprinted the allegations of the Soviet press in the 1980s.

Pravda published the story that HIV was developed in US army laboratories in the 1980s. I think it is the only reputable source for this claim. I am not sure if the story is true or just Cold War propaganda.

Frankly, I don't understand why any American blacks could be loyal to the US instead of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. There was so much racism in the US but in the Soviet Union there was no prejudice. I understand very well why Jeremiah Wright trusted the Soviet press instead of the American racist, capitalist mass media.

Bud Struggle
10th May 2008, 21:29
Frankly, I don't understand why any American blacks could be loyal to the US instead of the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

'cause you, my friend, have never been to the USSR. :rolleyes:

RGacky3
10th May 2008, 22:23
Frankly, I don't understand why any American blacks could be loyal to the US instead of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. There was so much racism in the US but in the Soviet Union there was no prejudice. I understand very well why Jeremiah Wright trusted the Soviet press instead of the American racist, capitalist mass media.

Because American Blacks are American.


The song "Fuck Tha Police" by NWA specifically condemns those Blacks that serve in the white police force: "But don't let it b e a black and a white one/Cuz they slam ya down to the street top/Black police showin out for the white cop."

Why would anyone take socio-political cues from a gangsta rap group.


Black people are obligated to stay loyal to their community since there is an absence of a notable Black bourgeoisie. Those Blacks that collaborate with the institutions of the white ruling classes essentially commit treason against their community.

There are plently of Black bourgeosie, remember that blacks make up less than 10% of the population, so your not going to see a lot of black bourgeosie, of coarse because of history there are proportionately less.

How do they commit treason against their community? and why is it a black-white thing, why is a black person becoming rich betraying his race, but a white person becoming rich just moving up the ladder? If a white person is a scab he's a class traitor, should it be any different for a black man? Why is race even a factor?

A Black man becoming rich, leaving the ghetto and accumulating wealth, is not betraying his race, or community, he's looking out for number one, something that everyone does, regardless of race, its a class thing, not a race thing.


Pravda published the story that HIV was developed in US army laboratories in the 1980s. I think it is the only reputable source for this claim. I am not sure if the story is true or just Cold War propaganda.

This Theory is as laughable as the 911 conspiricy theories.

Sky
10th May 2008, 22:43
A Black man becoming rich, leaving the ghetto and accumulating wealth, is not betraying his race, or communityThat is something of a strawman, for I never made such an argument. I acknowledge that Blacks like Minister Farrakhan can accumulate wealth and still stay true to their community.

RGacky3
14th May 2008, 06:14
I acknowledge that Blacks like Minister Farrakhan can accumulate wealth and still stay true to their community.

Why do they need to, any more than a white man becoming right would need to stay true to his roots, would a redneck factory worker have any reason to 'stay true' to his community or white rednecks after he became rich? Just because he is white?