hate crime

[communard resolution]

This piece of news isn't that new anymore, it happened last year in Lancashire, UK: a goth couple got brutally beaten by a gang of thugs simply for looking 'goth'. They both went into a coma, and the girl died from her injuries almost two weeks later.

I don't have the privilege to post links yet, but you can find the full story by searching "Sophie Lancaster" on wikipedia

I'm wondering what your positions on this are. What do you think makes people act like that? What do you suggest to prevent such things from happening - and I mean both in an "ideal world", but also now, on a pragmatic day-to-day basis? And what should be done with people who commit such crimes?

Also, do you agree that cases in which people are abused for individual expression should be labeled "hate crimes" just like racist/homophobic crimes and treated as such?

[Renewed Revolution]

Well, I think the whole idea of a "hate crime" is a little blown out of proportion. There are deliberate cases when people choose to commit crimes against people just because of their race, sexuality, or other choices or preferences.

But of course there are cases where someone does not commit a crime because of someone's race or one of the other things mentioned above but because of other reasons, and labeling this as a hate crime is not correct.

This is shown in "Cartman's Silly Little Hate Crime", one of my favorite South Park episodes.

[Vageli]

This piece of news isn't that new anymore, it happened last year in Lancashire, UK: a goth couple got brutally beaten by a gang of thugs simply for looking 'goth'. They both went into a coma, and the girl died from her injuries almost two weeks later.

I don't have the privilege to post links yet, but you can find the full story by searching "Sophie Lancaster" on wikipedia

I'm wondering what your positions on this are. What do you think makes people act like that? What do you suggest to prevent such things from happening - and I mean both in an "ideal world", but also now, on a pragmatic day-to-day basis? And what should be done with people who commit such crimes?

Also, do you agree that cases in which people are abused for individual expression should be labeled "hate crimes" just like racist/homophobic crimes and treated as such?

I personally believe that hate crimes and the like are caused by a deep rooted hatred that almost always stems from childhood. People that kill blacks only because the people are black do so because they have an irrational hatred. There is no rational reason to hate any particular race, creed, religion, gender, etc.

To fix this on a more pragmatic basis, we need to blur the lines between races today. When you fill out surveys, we should not put down our race; there shouldn't even be a race option! By making distinctions of the different races we promote the ideal that we are not all just people but that we are black, yellow, red, white, purple, blue, what-have-you. However, I doubt this will change anywhere in the near future because the world is run by corporations and advertising which find it very beneficial to categorize people to aid in demographic cornering.

Just some thoughts.

[communard resolution]

I agree with what you're saying about blurring the lines between races. I very much favor the 'colorblind' option rather than identity politics based 'anti-racism' which places a huge emphasis on people's ethinicity and 'identity'.

Still, Sophie Lancaster didn't get murdered for her race, she got murdered for her individuality. So my questions remain: how do you deal with appalling criminals like that? How do you prevent such things from happening?

[Unicorn]

It was not a hate crime because a youth culture is not a protected category like race or sex.

[communard resolution]

Well, shouldn't it be, though? More importantly, what do we do about -pardon the expression- human vermin who commit crimes of this sort? In a preventive sense, as well as in terms of punishment. The thugs who killed Sophie Lancaster will go to prison for a decade or two, after which they will be released into freedom, no doubt still being their basic selves as prisons rarely turn criminals into better people.
As for prevention, I'm talking both pragmatically/day-to-day as well as in the long run/in an ideal world.

[mykittyhasaboner]

for preventing hate crimes, education for the people who are intolerant of others, to show them why it is wrong to discriminate against other people for any reason, be it sub culture, race, sex, sexual orientation, any thing. Punishment for these people is a touchy subject, and could vary greatly. and i think should be decided after an investigation. this investigation could be done by an elected law enforcement, or the people themselves.

[Lector Malibu]

That was absolutely fowl. The two kids they caught should swing along with the others in my opinion. That said though this was not a hate crime. This is alcohol and anger gone wrong.

[rouchambeau]

lol at white people deciding on what sort of action should be taken on racism.

[Lector Malibu]

lol at white people deciding on what sort of action should be taken on racism.

I'm not white, continue please.

[Kami]

Well, shouldn't it be, though? More importantly, what do we do about -pardon the expression- human vermin who commit crimes of this sort? In a preventive sense, as well as in terms of punishment. The thugs who killed Sophie Lancaster will go to prison for a decade or two, after which they will be released into freedom, no doubt still being their basic selves as prisons rarely turn criminals into better people.
As for prevention, I'm talking both pragmatically/day-to-day as well as in the long run/in an ideal world.


As I recall, two got life sentances, the others got a few years.
It's fucking disgusting that such a thing might happen, but there's little that can be done about it. They're kids, so they might not turn out to be serious threats to society, but locking them away for 20 years minimum won't help anyone; they'll come out, unable to find employment and having missed their best years of their life; they'll be bitter, of that I can assure you.
I'd probably advocate supervision and mandatory councilling, in an ideal world, and see what would happen. But then again, in an Ideal world this would not have happened.

As for those saying this was not a hate crime, I must disagree; it was commited solely because the victim was part of a particular social group. That's the bloody definition of a hate crime.

[communard resolution]

lol at white people deciding on what sort of action should be taken on racism.

So are white people somehow collectively responsible for racism and therefore not entitled to even have an opinion on how to get rid of it? Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Anyway, this isn't a racism discussion. We're talking about someone who got murdered for choosing to dress in a particular way, how to prevent such repulsive acts of intolerance, and what best to do with the victimizers.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

The original story and an accompanying thread, for reference:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/british-boy-15-t74334/index.html?t=74334

[Lector Malibu]

As for those saying this was not a hate crime, I must disagree; it was commited solely because the victim was part of a particular social group. That's the bloody definition of a hate crime.

I agree but judging by the situation I think it was more of a wrong place at the right time situation. I think anyone who crossed their path that night might had had trouble. Maybe I'm wrong.

And that in no way lessons what this assorted scum did.

[communard resolution]

Oh ok, now I see what you were trying to say. We can't know for sure, but given that in many areas in the UK you're pretty much fucked if your appearance doesn't please tracksuit wearing, military haircut sporting thugs, I would guess that that couple's appearance was the main reason even if the action wasn't planned.

[communard resolution]

The original story and an accompanying thread, for reference

I'd love to have a look at this, but I can't. I'm getting an "insufficient privileges" message - maybe to do with my newbie status.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I'd love to have a look at this, but I can't. I'm getting an "insufficient privileges" message - maybe to do with my newbie status.
That's odd... If it persists, you might want to post in the Technical Support forum. The original news article itself is here:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/mhojeyidqlau/

[Kami]

I agree but judging by the situation I think it was more of a wrong place at the right time situation. I think anyone who crossed their path that night might had had trouble. Maybe I'm wrong.
It might be worth noting that the "Chav" subculture, which the perpretrators belong to, has always had something of a hatred for Goths; perhaps if they were sober, it would not have resulted in murder, but harrassment of Goths (or any of the "alternative" subcultures) is commonplace, and I find it hard to believe that this incident would have occured if it had not been Goths

[Lector Malibu]

It might be worth noting that the "Chav" subculture, which the perpretrators belong to, has always had something of a hatred for Goths; perhaps if they were sober, it would not have resulted in murder, but harrassment of Goths (or any of the "alternative" subcultures) is commonplace, and I find it hard to believe that this incident would have occured if it had not been Goths


Chavs... We do not have them in America but I know the element well.

The articles I read did not mention them but I'm glad you pointed that out because yes the possibility of that scenario did go through my mind.

I will say though that when you get a bunch of angry drunken youth together somethings bound to happen. As I seen it with my own eyes.

If this is the case that these were all Chavs than than puts a new twist on it .