Bob Avakian and David Horowitz

[Unicorn]

Back in the Sixties, I knew a Berkeley radical named Bob Avakian. Avakian was the son of an Eisenhower Republican judge named Spurgeon Avakian until one day he made a name for himself, while embarrassing his dad, by climbing a flagpole during the Vietnam protests and pulling down an American flag. He was given thirty days for flag desecration. This was radical stuff in those days and, as I have recently learned, somewhat embellished. Avakian concedes in his recent autobiography that someone else actually pulled the flag from the flagpole at the Oakland County Courthouse where Black Panther leader, murderer and rapist, Huey Newton was on trial, and Avakian merely was the one caught holding it.

Avakian was a Maoist and I had the displeasure of confronting him once, in the days when I was still a radical. Our encounter took place in the Black Panther Party headquarters on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley and was over an editorial he had written in the Black Panther paper about an island in the Ussuri River that both China and Russia were claiming. His editorial demanded that the left support Communist China’s “righteous claim” to Chen Pao Island (the Russians had given it a Russian name. It was my opinion that supporting these squalid territorial claims was actually a disservice to the left. I would have had the same attitude if Avakian had supported the Russians.) What I discovered in the course of our discussion was that Avakian had in effect copied the editorial from Peking Review and was himself ignorant of the historical background to the Sino-Soviet dispute and uninterested in its political ramifications. I left the conversation thoroughly depressed about the shallowness of the movement of which I was still unhappily a part.

Avakian went on to greater things, specifically to found the “Revolutionary Communist Party, USA” and become a Mao impersonator himself, requiring his minions refer to him as "Chairman Bob." He also got himself an arrest warrant in 1979 by leading a violent demonstration against a visit by Mao's successor Deng Xiapoing whom Chairman Bob regarded as a revolutionary sell-out. Avakian’s protesters chanted “Mao Zedong did not fail, revolution will prevail.” Rather than serve a sentence, Avakian fled the country and for the last three decades (less a few years) has lived in what he self-adoringly calls "political exile" in France.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=97B2AA4A-710B-45C9-92F1-69A60EB31467

Interesting...

[chegitz guevara]

Anything new there you didn't know?

[Faux Real]

Why do you think this fascists' article has any credibility, and how is Huey P. Newton a rapist?

[Unicorn]

Anything new there you didn't know?
That Bob Avakian's dad was a Republican judge and he copied editorials from Peking review.

[chegitz guevara]

Why do you think this fascists' article has any credibility, and how is Huey P. Newton a rapist?

Dunno. Horowitz has a hate on for the Panthers, as he suspects them of killing his friend. Maybe Horowitz has mistaken him for Cleaver as he gets older and his facts meld together in his head. As Newton's conviction was overturned, he also isn't a murderer.

In any event, the fact that he is a neo-conservative doesn't mean his facts are necessarily wrong. Horowitz was there, we weren't. Don't engage in an ad hominem. Go after the facts.

[Dros]

Congratulations on finding a fascist willing to attack communist leaders.


That Bob Avakian's dad was a Republican judge and he copied editorials from Peking review.

Yes. His dad had mainstream politics. This is not news to anyone.

And there is no evidence that Avakian copied anything or that he didn't know the history of the Sino-Soviet split except the word of a neocon ultra-right lunatic.

And of course Avakian was not always right. He'd be the first to tell you this. These years were formative of his politics. This article means less then nothing.

I find it saddening that "revolutionaries" are willing to accept on face value the absurd rantings of a reactionary idealogue.

[Wanted Man]

Drosera, you can take Horowitz's stuff at face value, because he attacks the "bad" Avakian. Or you can flatly deny it, because the "bad" Horowitz has written it. It's stupid either way.

There's really no way of verifying or denying this stuff. It's just Horowitz's experiences with Avakian, or at least his claims about them.

[Unicorn]

I find it saddening that "revolutionaries" are willing to accept on face value the absurd rantings of a reactionary idealogue.
Many revolutionaries have sold out and have become GOP conservatives. (Eldridge Cleaver did so too) Their testimonies can still be interesting and in some cases truthful.

[chegitz guevara]

Many revolutionaries have sold out and have become GOP conservatives. (Eldridge Cleaver did so too) Their testimonies can still be interesting and in some cases truthful.

quoted for truth

[ChairmanArt]

Interesting? That you would use the words of a fascist to attack an eminent (and one of the only remaining) revolutionary leader? Yeah, I think that's pretty interesting...

The fact of the matter is that, whether you agree with him or not, Bob Avakian has worked tirelessly since his self-imposed exile (which was perfectly justified given the death of comrade Garcia and increasing government antagonism of the RCP and Avakian as its leader) to examine the history of the communist movement, putting in perspective in its limitations and and stressing its accomplishments twoard the emancipation of humanity and a world free from capitalism, as well as to expose the truth of the Bush regime and all of the cronies of the international capitalist system, AND combat reformism/revisionism and maintain an overall revolutionary line and orientation in his party.

Now, that being said, there is a certain of cult of personality around Avakian in his party, but, as I said in another thread about Chairman Bob, there is an article available at the RCP website (revcom.us) that clearly states demagoguery of leaders as a limitation to the vanguard party.

[Dros]

Drosera, you can take Horowitz's stuff at face value, because he attacks the "bad" Avakian. Or you can flatly deny it, because the "bad" Horowitz has written it. It's stupid either way.

What do you mean? Reactionaries have made a hobby of vilifying revolutionary leaders. If every time reactionaries came out with some bullshit about Mao, Stalin, Marx, Lenin or whoever, everyone on the Left went "Really, he did THAT?!" there wouldn't be a Movement anywhere. And it's equally disgusting when people do that opportunistically for petty and sectarian reasons. This is equivalent to posting sections of "The Red Czar" and then going "See, I told you Stalin was an asshole".

Come on, this is history 101. When analyzing the validity of a source, especially a source around personal experience, you have to look at the biases that this individual holds and how that will color there account of events.


Many revolutionaries have sold out and have become GOP conservatives. (Eldridge Cleaver did so too) Their testimonies can still be interesting and in some cases truthful.

True. But in this case you have opportunistically decided to quote a neocon/Ameri-fash to discredit a leader of the revolutionary movement. This thread is troll garbage. There was no analysis of this article in your OP. You only throw out this one passage without any critical analysis about what it is or who Horowitz is. In the absence of that, all you are doing is opportunistically attacking REAL communist leadership for your own petty and secterian reasons. I nor anyone with the RCP that I have ever met has done this with any modern revolutionary leader. If you are interested in actually engaging with Avakian's work or the line of the RCP that's fine. If you disagree with the RCP, that also is fine. However, this kind of petty sectarianism is totally counter productive for everyone.

If anyone here wants to actually talk about what Avakian says, that's great and I'd be happy to enter into that. But all that there is in this thread is a group of people who feel the need to attack a leader of the revolutionary communist movement, without any substance. It really is intolerable for anyone who considers themselves Communist.

[Comrade Rage]

Why are you citing something from Front Page Magazine? This is a crypto-fascist propaganda mill. This guy Horowitz is so selective in his news stories that even the far-right talk radio machine here doesn't cite him.

I don't mean to attack you here, but few people in America; let alone internationally; know how far-right this guy is.

[Unicorn]

True. But in this case you have opportunistically decided to quote a neocon/Ameri-fash to discredit a leader of the revolutionary movement. This thread is troll garbage. There was no analysis of this article in your OP.
I just googled some information of Bob Avakian and found that article. I decided to post it in the case some other people would be interested. I had no intention to debate about Avakian's views in this thread. The Horowitz article just provides some minor details of Avakian's life and is naturally no basis for theoretical discussion.

[RedHal]

You could've easily quoted Avakian himself on his family background, he did recently release his memoirs. I'm sure when you did your search on Google, Avakian's memoirs showed up, but instead quote and provide a link to David Horowitz, lol nice try