Sam Webb (the politician)

[cappin]

What have you heard of him and do you think he's legit? I've been looking into joining Communist Party USA (CPUSA) http://www.cpusa.org/ which is said to be comprised of over 15,000. He's met up with current communist and socialist leaders around the world and represented CPUSA in Greece- all within the last 2 years.

Is it a bunch of crock? This page requests that for membership you have to "pay dues" http://cpusa.org/article/articleview/844

Maybe it's a political scheme under the guise of a socialist leader who is actually taking money and putting it into his own pocket?

Here are some of his articles http://www.pww.org/article/author/view/177

[Random Precision]

He's a reformist who wants something called "Bill of Rights socialism" and supports Barack Obama's campaign for president. His politics, imho, are much more suspect than anything else, especially the CPUSA collecting membership dues.

You won't find many organizations on the left that don't require membership dues- organizations need them to run the newspaper and other publications, organize demonstrations and so on.

[cappin]

Yeah, the guy seems like a quack to begin with. He's against capitalism, yet he promotes presidency. Do you recommend any communist groups?

[Dros]

Remember one thing, the CPUSA is NOT communist. If it ever was, it has long long long since ceased to be.

If you are interested in a real revolutionary communist alternative to capitalism, and looking for an organization that is committed to the goals of real communism and making a revolution in this country, check out the Revolutionary Communist Party. (rwor.org)

[Random Precision]

Yeah, the guy seems like a quack to begin with. He's against capitalism, yet he promotes presidency. Do you recommend any communist groups?

I'm a member of the International Socialist Organization (http://www.internationalsocialist.org/), the largest radical left organization in the States. Check out our stuff and see what you think.

I also have great respect for Solidarity (http://www.solidarity-us.org/). Check them out, too.

[RHIZOMES]

Being a Maoist, I also recommend the Revolutionary Communist Party.

[chegitz guevara]

By and large, my suggestion would be to join the group which does the best work in your area. It's stupid and pointless to be the only member of a group in your area. The point of being in a group is to work together with others, gain knowledge and experience from them, etc. There is strength in numbers. Being the only member of Group X is a stupid and lonely existence. Look at all the groups, talk to them, do a little political work with them, and then make a decision about which, if any, to join.

The second most important thing, after the work they do, is does the group have internal democracy and does it respect comrades with differing views? A group where everyone agrees is a strong sign that the organization does not have internal democracy, as everyone who had a differing opinion either left, was driven out, or is hiding their views in order to remain in the group. A lot of our groups are actually cults parading as organizations.

I would note that while the leadership of the CPUSA is decrepit and has been since the 1920s (and since 1935, the left wing of the Democrats), there is growing a youthful, revolutionary core, that refuses to believe that the old CPUSA was anything like today's CPUSA. Delusions aside, they are trying to do revolutionary work.

Idealists will argue you have to join the party with the best line, but since nearly the whole movement is divorced from and isolated from the masses, those arguments are simply metaphysical. No one can prove anything. There simply is no way to tell if the RCP has the best line or if Solidarity has the best line, etc. The proof is in the pudding, and our pudding is thin gruel indeed.

And once you've worked with and compared all the rest, join the Socialist Party USA (http://www.sp-usa.org/). ;)

[Dros]

Idealists will argue you have to join the party with the best line, but since nearly the whole movement is divorced from and isolated from the masses, those arguments are simply metaphysical. No one can prove anything. There simply is no way to tell if the RCP has the best line or if Solidarity has the best line, etc. The proof is in the pudding, and our pudding is thin gruel indeed.

Leninists and other people who oppose economism, opportunism, and anti-materialism will argue that you shouldn't just choose the group that happens to work nearby. You should choose the group based on your politics. Joining a group do to proximity is dishonest to yourself and to the group, opportunistic, and will ultimately be counter productive for everybody.

As for these arguments being metaphysical, that is the most anti-materialist thing I've ever heard. Appearently, Chegitz hasn't heard of historical materialism and summing up the historical experiences of socialism. He appearently believes that there has been no historical progress in terms of Marxist theory, that there is no scientific basis with which to analyze that progress, and thus no way to synthesize a revolutionary line.

Communist work is grounded in bringing revolutionary class consciousness to the masses. That is only possible with a revolutionary line. If you want to do good work, you should do a scientific assessment of the world, figure out what you politics are, and find a group (or start one!) that you would be happy to support based on those beliefs.


Socialist Party USA

:lol: in the other thread you claimed to be a Communist!

In all fairness, I used to support them. But this was way way back before I was a communist, when I had a very poorly formed understanding of capital. But generally, if they represent your beliefs, you (OP) could do far worse.

[chegitz guevara]

Leninists and other people who oppose economism, opportunism, and anti-materialism will argue that you shouldn't just choose the group that happens to work nearby. You should choose the group based on your politics. Joining a group do to proximity is dishonest to yourself and to the group, opportunistic, and will ultimately be counter productive for everybody.

If a group existed that I thought knew what the fuck it was doing, had a healthy internal democracy, and was doing serious revolutionary work, I'd not only recommend it, I'd join it. Since there are no good options, throw down your buckets and fight where you are, along side those you can fight with. I know you've seen the light, but I've been around long enough to know that the light at the end of the tunnel is really just New Jersey.


As for these arguments being metaphysical, that is the most anti-materialist thing I've ever heard. Appearently, Chegitz hasn't heard of historical materialism and summing up the historical experiences of socialism. He appearently believes that there has been no historical progress in terms of Marxist theory, that there is no scientific basis with which to analyze that progress, and thus no way to synthesize a revolutionary line.

Apparently drosera hasn't heard that the entire movement has no connection to the masses, and thus no material way to test our various theories in practice. Thus, and difference in theory, line, etc., can only be argued, not proven. This makes the arguments metaphysical, because on their own terms, each argument is valid.



:lol: in the other thread you claimed to be a Communist!

In all fairness, I used to support them. But this was way way back before I was a communist, when I had a very poorly formed understanding of capital. But generally, if they represent your beliefs, you (OP) could do far worse.

There are quite a few of us commies in the SPUSA, actually. Half the leadership and slightly more than half the comrades at the last convention were self-identified revolutionary socialists (only one of whom was an anarchist, and he quit). The social democrats are fleeing the organization, as they only like democracy when it means they are in control. With revolutionary youth coming in and old social democrats on the way out, we'll be a Marxist-Leninist organization soon enough. ;)

[Dros]

If a group existed that I thought knew what the fuck it was doing, had a healthy internal democracy, and was doing serious revolutionary work, I'd not only recommend it, I'd join it. Since there are no good options, throw down your buckets and fight where you are, along side those you can fight with. I know you've seen the light, but I've been around long enough to know that the light at the end of the tunnel is really just New Jersey.

This argument assumes that there is not a party that meets this criterion. There is.


Apparently drosera hasn't heard that the entire movement has no connection to the masses, and thus no material way to test our various theories in practice. Thus, and difference in theory, line, etc., can only be argued, not proven. This makes the arguments metaphysical, because on their own terms, each argument is valid.

The entire movement has a very limited connection to the masses, but it does exist. And even with that, there is the ability to analyze tactics scientifically based on the historical experiences of socialism. We can sum up previous revolutions and look at what tactics worked and which failed. For instance, economism, Trotskyism, Menshevism, liberalism, and all other forms of revisionism and reformism have repeatedly failed in all practice. Some movements have made palpable advances in terms of developing socialism. These movements did that because they were doing something right. There failure emerged out of the limits in Marxists science as they manifested themselves objectively through practice. We can analyze these gaps and propose scientific hypotheses and practice to "fix" them. This is called "theory preceding practice" and all successful revolutionaries see that as critically important.

So, there is a material basis for analyzing line and waging line struggle.


There are quite a few of us commies in the SPUSA, actually. Half the leadership and slightly more than half the comrades at the last convention were self-identified revolutionary socialists (only one of whom was an anarchist, and he quit). The social democrats are fleeing the organization, as they only like democracy when it means they are in control. With revolutionary youth coming in and old social democrats on the way out, we'll be a Marxist-Leninist organization soon enough. ;)

Yeah I know. I'm just kidding really. As I said, I used to support the SPUSA. It's a good organization for that kind of thing. Far better than DSA.