I read this and suddenly thought of AK SN

[peaccenicked]

America The Dumb
2 Apr 2002 | Ben Roberts

I shook my head in disgust today. "No big deal", you might say. Wait until I tell you why.

Actually, I’m not going to tell you just yet; firstly a little bit of background knowledge. Last July whilst in Atlanta had the pleasure of gaining the acquaintance of a gaggle of American girls. They were fascinated with the 'whole English thing' - as if it was just a fashion accessory or something. We each exchanged e-mail addresses and promised to write to each other.

Now zoom forward to today, March 31 2002. I write an e-mail to my friend in Wisconsin, detailing just how depressing my life has been and such like and then decide I’ll go down stairs and catch Victoria Wood on ITV1. When it has finished I make my way up to the PC and perform a quick 'Send and Receive'. Ah, what a pleasure, I have an email from Wisconsin.

Nothing untoward so far as I peruse the email. Then, oh what’s this!

Happy Easter!

How nice of her, I think. I realise I forgot to wish her a Happy Easter. Then I glance at what she has written in the brackets. My heart leaps.

Neways, i totally forgot to say Happy Easter! (you celebrate that, right?)

It’s those four words. 'You celebrate that right?' Why wouldn’t I?! I live in Britain. Surely she remembers I live in Britain; a country with freedom of religious expression. She has asked me if I celebrate a religious festival not without knowledge of my religious convictions. She knows I am a committed Christian. So why wouldn’t I celebrate the death and resurrection of my Saviour. Has she no brain at all? Does she think that it is only American Christians that celebrate Easter? Has it not occurred to her that Easter is something acknowledged worldwide by Christians and even those without religious association?

Similarly, she included this gem in one of her e-mails, clearly forgetting the history of her own young nation...

it kinda stinks that you have to be in school, you don't get off for thanksgiving, do you?

American History genius I think not. Evidence to corroborate with this theory abounds. Just feast you eyes on this...

maybe in new york or something, but not here. (just outta curiosity, do you spell it "new yourk"?)

Maybe I’m easily offended but this kinda got up my, er, nose. I mean, New York was so called because settlers from York (in Yorkshire, England) settled there and couldn’t think of anything more original. Some say ignorance is bliss; maybe it is for her but Rachel’s ignorance just annoyed me to the point of internationalist tears.

It makes me so angry. Has the American schooling system sucked out every vestige of logic and intellect from her? You may laugh at my crazy rant but she probably doesn’t even know where Britian is. In fact, I have no doubt that she has a questionable grasp of all things geographical. The evidence is in her e-mail of September 11...

i also heard there was an attack in Afghanistan, but i don't know if that directly effects you at all.

Now, even taking into account the fact that she may have been shocked by the terrorist attacks on her country that day, I would expect her to have at least a basic idea of where Britain is. And that is certainly not anywhere near Afghanistan, so I don’t get what she means when she says "I don’t know if that directly effects you at all".

I forgave her for not being able to locate Cyprus, but to think that Britain and Afghanistan are even on the same continent is unforgivable! When I was, say, six or seven, I would have been able to make an educated guess that Britain and Afghanistan did not share a similar geographical position. Yet, at 15, this American girl does not know this simple fact! I was appalled, absolutely horrified that she didn’t know. As if I was not already aghast at this obvious ignorance it dawned on me that Americans in their forties do not benefit from such knowledge. Heck, they "elected" a guy who, in mid-2000, did not know the name of the Pakistani head-of-state. At that point in time I was 15 and even I knew that.

I wouldn’t recommend Current Affairs as her chosen subject if she chose to appear on Mastermind either. When I mentioned that a friend of the family was caught in the crossfire on the Shanklin Road her response was this...

i didn't know all of that is going on in ireland! Seriously, i thought they had resolved it a long time ago. nobody ever tells us when important things happen.

She doesn’t rate too highly on political thinking, just take a look at this and it will tell you all you need to know about the thought process involved in weighing up the best candidates. Note how she criticises Al Gore for 'campaigning for world peace' but also alleges that he would have 'just gone in and bombed some country', which, so it turns out, is what good ol Dubya himself did...

I really respect our president, George W Bush, and all the decisions he's making. He is really holding our country together in this time of crisis. I'm guessing you heard all about the 2001 presidential election. It was an interesting time in my life, two candidates fighting for the presidency! i shudder to think of how Al Gore would have reacted to this whole terrorist situation, he probably would have just kept pushing for world peace, and wouldn't have acted responsibly, or he would have gone in and bombed some country and started a war.

I dread to think what her opinion of Ralph Nader is. Several months later her anti-Gore tirade began again...

i mean, think about it, most of those people probably weren't Christians. so in destroying their lives, Bin Laden also destroyed their mortal souls. well, that's my view on that anyways. how about you? what do you think of the whole Bin Laden thing? i think it's so cool that we have a president here who is Christian. it changes so much. if al gore were president, we would be in huge trouble, and the country would have some big problems.

Yes, yes. I agree with her: the terrorism destroyed their mortal souls. Of course it did. But American bombs in Afghanistan killed 3600 innocent civilians - thus "destroying their mortal souls", - there’s blatant hypocrisy here.

And during one dialogue where I explained the intricacies of the British schooling system she uttered something along the lines of "that’s cool, I guess I just expected it to be the same everywhere in the world", which I believe quite adequately sums up the American isolationist stance on practically everything.

Was Matt Savvy right when he said "We are the f*****g idiots"?

As a side note (just because I like getting things off my chest) I will add that not only are they ignorant, but they are also illiterate. I got an e-mail from a Californian who - I kid you not - used the word 'like' (as in, "he was, sooo, like, inconsiderate, y’know") six times in one short e-mail. In case you might choose not to believe me I felt compelled to include the full transcript for your delectation...

hey ben :)
o that sux that the rain is always there down here its like 97 degrees like 24/7 (all the time) anyway i have been to like all these parties and it is like sooo fun but i always get like sunburned even with sun screen on what is up with that??? anyway write back asap!!!!!!! and uhh... say hi to your brother for me I guess i didnt know u had one so do i but he is leaving for college in like 27 days (yipeee) ok luv ya
ttyl
chel bell

Even I’m starting to wonder whether I fabricated this e-mail simply to justify my outrage. Oh, and by the way, it’s not even as if any of these girls were horrible people. They were nice, warm, friendly people. People I could see myself being attracted to if only they used their brain (and if they weren’t nutty Republicans).

[Stormin Norman]

Another long winded posts written by somebody else, to be ignored, most definitely. When I see your name as the author, you can be sure that I will read it, peacenick.

[American Kid]

Ditto, actually I decided tonight that by-passing everything with Peace-diddy's name on it was going to be the standard practice now anyway.

Ah.......pity, Peacennicked. "Your" "wit" will be lost on me, as I'll never waste my time with this piece of shit.

File this one under: back-fired

-AK


(Edited by American Kid at 3:01 am on July 29, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

thats fucking hilarious

[peaccenicked]

Thats up to you but , it was not my story to tell.
Strange you are so sheepish.

[Stormin Norman]

Do you have any of your own stories to tell?

[peaccenicked]

I have written a few short stories but nothing that I would consider ripe for publishing. I have published other peoples work before. It is all part of the democratic spirit that you know nothing about.

[Solzhenitsyn]

More snobbery from Eurotopia who seem determined to continue their peculiar infatuation with totalitarian political systems. I do hope that Mr. Roberts enjoys the 8 month wait the next time he needs a coronary bypass.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Solzhenitsyn on 3:06 am on July 29, 2002
More snobbery from Eurotopia who seem determined to continue their peculiar infatuation with totalitarian political systems. I do hope that Mr. Roberts enjoys the 8 month wait the next time he needs a coronary bypass.

I don't find the man is trying to act superior alot of teenagers are stupid and shallow

[I Will Deny You]

Just one more thing that the author of that article failed to point out: Al Gore identifies himself as a born-again Christian.

Lindsay

[Stormin Norman]

I just read a post of yours in politics, where you were talking about waking up next to people you didn't know, after a night of getting drunk. Yet, another reason why I do not take you seriously, IWDY. That fact that you would tell everyone on this forum is a little funny, but Jesus isn't that how you ended up with your welfare kids to begin with? You should be assamed of they way you have mismanaged your life, and left the responsibility of the society. Maybe if you had religion you would be in a better situation.

[peaccenicked]

snobbery or does it reflect the ideological brainwashing that has come to website with pompous hypocrisy and no understanding of the struggle against Stalinism?
Orwell's 1984 points to a totalitarian society at permanent war. Ring any bells?

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 10:23 pm on July 28, 2002
I just read a post of yours in politics, where you were talking about waking up next to people you didn't know, after a night of getting drunk. Yet, another reason why I do not take you seriously, IWDY. That fact that you would tell everyone on this forum is a little funny, but Jesus isn't that how you ended up with your welfare kids to begin with? You should be assamed of they way you have mismanaged your life, and left the responsibility of the society. Maybe if you had religion you would be in a better situation.
I hope you're not serious.

I have slept around. I was in college. I doubt there's anyone here out of, or toward the end of, high school who hasn't had a one-night stand or two. Maybe you haven't. For all I know you're a priest. But I'm a dirty, dirty Jew.

I didn't shout this from the rooftops. The only time I ever really said anything about that was a while ago, and it didn't get much of a response. When I start a topic called "I FUCK PEOPLE WHO I DO NOT KNOW AFTER GETTING DRUNK" in every forum, then you can repeat what you just said.

I don't have kids. I never even got pregnant. And I've never been on Welfare. Are you joking?

How have I mismanaged my life? I have a college degree, a roof over my head, good relationships with almost everyone in my family, friends who I love dearly, and a boyfriend who I could not possibly be more infatuated with. And for your information, in fall, winter and spring I work for YOUR GOVERNMENT teaching great kids. Hopefully, I'm helping them become even greater. Anyway, how has society had to pay for me? I got government scholarships for college, but I worked every year while I was in college so it's not as if I didn't try to pay for college all by myself.

I have dedicated my life to teaching kids in the inner cities, many of whom have parents on Welfare. Without people like me, children born into poverty would have an even harder time escaping and there would be even more people on Welfare.

Besides, who are you to criticize Welfare mothers? I know a lot of them and most of them work very hard and love their children very much. What's your problem with them?

By the way, I do have religion. It's called Judaism, and perhaps you've heard of it. By "religion", I'm sure you were referring to Christianity in one form or another. I have nothing against Christianity, but I just don't think it's for me. I have explained this to my Southern Baptist father a thousand times, and explaining it to you is not very high on my list of priorities.

Lindsay

[American Kid]

Okay, I don't know where she is (actually she just PM'd me, just now, but anyway), but she's my friend and so now I'm going to stick up for her.

She has NOT mismanaged her life. She's actually quite succesful (a schoolteacher) who's involved in a COMMITED relationship with ONE guy and she's really cool and intelligent at that.

Lindsay, in other words, is bright and interesting and who she wakes up next to and what she drank the night before is irrelevant. If the story is even true (we all know how "Lindsay" talks) , the only thing it proves about her character is she parties hard. Word up. She's 23. Exactly what she should be doing.

But no, I know enough about her personal life to vehemently (and confidently) dispute your claim that she's totally fucked up her life or something. Because I can tell you she's-doing-absolutely-fine.

-IWDY's bud, AK

[peaccenicked]

Storming Norman is being really petty minded.
What on earth is anybodies personal life got to do with the validity of their political views.
He should really apologise. If he was any sort of a man.

[Stormin Norman]

I remember seeing a post in the getting to know you forum where you admitted as much. If I am wrong, I apologize. Sorry to upset you. This is not the first time I mention that you were on welfare. My first attack went unchallenged, so I figured I was right. Sorry. I will have to stop making this accusation, and attacking you on your philosophy. I thought much of your philosophy came from the fact that you were dependent on the state, and that made your opinion biased. Man I can be a dick sometimes. I feel bad, real bad.

[American Kid]

............................

I can't speak for her, but...........we're.... "cool". Being fellow..........cappies (I'm a rational sympathizer, in that I see no point "fighting" with these people, particularly if I like them as people; NOT a communist sympathizer). I respect a man (as anyone should) who admits when he's wrong.

She's.........pretty pissed, though.

Why did you think she was on welfare and/or pregnant, by the way? Where-the-fuck-did-that come from?

-AK

[Stormin Norman]

I appears that I was wrong about IWDY. I associated the wrong avatar with the wrong person. It was somebody else who claimed to be on welfare. Please allow me to retract the nasty things that I have said to you, IWDY. It is none of my business what you do in your bedroom, if you are not mass producing babies for society to deal with. I was wrong and I admit it. Surely it will not be the last time, but I will be more carefull next time. Please accept my apology. Acknowledge me, by either telling me that you hate me or that you accept my apology. I enjoyed debating you, until I came to the misunderstanding that you were on welfare.

[American Kid]

I think she's gone for the night, Norm (I feel like her fucking' spokesperson here) but I'm sure she'll be cool.

Actually..........she's probably still going to be pissed. But she's smart, and she'll understand.

-AK

[I Will Deny You]

American Kid is my press secretary. ;)

I didn't leave for the whole night. I'm back! Anyway, Norman I accept your apology. Believe it or not, I have been wrong on occasion as well. But now I'm glad that you know I'm not a Welfare mother. Some of the things you said about people on Welfare did offend me, but this has gone from back to being a political issue, instead of a personal one.

Lindsay

[Capitalist Imperial]

Let me premise my response by stating that:

1) Remember StalinSoldiers? Or the current "El Capitan"? As illogical. crude, beligerent, ignorant, idiotic, and just plain stupid as their posts are/were, they were actually their words, their rebuttals, their assessments. Technically, more respectable than a cut and paste job.

2)Usually, peacenick submits articles of some sort of relevance (albiet leftist and so subject to extensive scrutiny) Now, I am in total agreement that these posts should be about original, individual thought and opinions, with of course links and references to articles of information that would support a submission. However, if one is to simply cut and paste an article, there should be at least some pretense of relevance.

NEITHER OF THESE HAVE OCCURED HERE.



This article is basically some pretensious, beef boiling, pasty faced, bad teeth havin', queen worshiping, empire losin', limey brit trying to get loco on my yankee bretheren. A typical attempt at nationalist esteem-inflation coming from a citizen of a nation that we brow-beat 2 centuries ago. It is somewhat analogous to that kid in the school yard who goes behind the big kids back and talks some mess, because in a face to face confrontation the punk would get beat down.

This guy, "Ben Roberts", seeks to guage the entire collective intelligence of the United States citizenry by a 15 year old chic from the midwest. What a freakin' pragmatist!

He claims these american ladies he met were "fascinated with the whole english thing". Maybe, or maybe they just concentrated on that because he was an ugly cuss and they felt sorry for him. He was english, so I predict the latter as the more probable scenario.


So what if shew didn't kinow if the UK did or did not celebrate Easter? Some religious holidays are celebrated in different capacities across the atlantic. That is why she asked. For instance, they don't celebrate halloween in europe, which is an extension of all-saints day.

"It's those four words. 'You celebrate that right?' Why wouldn t I?! I live in Britain. Surely she remembers I live in Britain; a country with freedom of religious expression. She has asked me if I celebrate a religious festival not without knowledge of my religious convictions. She knows I am a committed Christian. So why wouldn t I celebrate the
death and resurrection of my Saviour. Has she no brain at all? Does she think that it is only American Christians that celebrate Easter? Has it not occurred to her that Easter is something acknowledged worldwide by Christians and even those without religious association?"

I see this all the time, this is a perfect example of an individual taking a minor faux pas and using it as a platform to over-criticize another's intelligence capacity cheifly as a technique to inflate his own sense of intelligence and esteem, which in their natural state are probalbly very low.

"i also heard there was an attack in Afghanistan, but i don't know if that directly effects you at all.

Now, even taking into account the fact that she may have been shocked by the terrorist attacks on her country that day, I would expect her to have at least a basic idea of
where Britain is. And that is certainly not anywhere near Afghanistan, so I don't get what she means when she says "I don t know if that directly effects you at all"."

This guy admits he didn't understand the question. Maybe shae was asking if he or his family were military related, as the UK is allied with the US in the war on terror. I could think of several contexts that would make this a legitimate question.


If you ask me, her remarks about Al Gore were pretty accurate, if Clintons actions are any indication. Bush is focusing on specific people and specific objectives and a full committment in his war. What did the clinton-gore administration do in response to terror attacks vs. the USA interests during their administration? They blindlty lobbed a couple of $1 million cruise missles at a couple of tents.

Sounds like my yankee girl is right on, there.

Of courese, the "killing innocent civilians" thing, blah, blah, blah... i've posted this concept 101 times, here is 102: THE ONLY PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND INCIDENTALS IN AFGHANISTAN ARE THE 9/11 TERRORISTS, AL- QUEDA, AND THE TALIBAN!

And then the commentary about the california girl's use of the world "like" every 5 minutes? Look, I live in San Diego (Americas Finest City), and I hate the old vestiges of "valley speak" as much as anyone. However, they are not always indicative of literacy or intelligence.

This is nothing more than a classic example of the Brits inferiority complex with Americans, and failed attempts to compensate for the same, that manifests itself many ways, but this one is one of the most pathetic.

Face it, lackey's, you've been subjugated by true greatness, and you'll always play second-string to the yankees.

BTW, american college grad stat: 24% of americans have a bachelor's degree or better, WORLDS HIGHEST PERCENTAGE.

[Moskitto]

More snobbery from Eurotopia who seem determined to continue their peculiar infatuation with totalitarian political systems. I do hope that Mr. Roberts enjoys the 8 month wait the next time he needs a coronary bypass.


Indeed you don't seem to know about how healthcare works in the UK where insurence is very cheap compared to the US and you can get surgury in 2 weeks, and not pay a penny.

[James]

Great article.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from James on 6:58 pm on July 29, 2002
Great article.

Actually, james, go read it again. It was a stupid article, dogmatic and pretensious, and not a very good representation of british logic.

[James]

Actually, james, go read it again.

Okay i'll go do it for you darling.

[James]

Okay i've finished reading as much as i could be bothered reading (i havn't forgotten it you see).

It was a stupid article

I dissagree

dogmatic and pretensious, and not a very good representation of british logic.

I see what your saying though. It would be stupid if he implied that ALL american 15 year olds were like these two or three, but then again not every 15 year old is a

nutty Republican(s)

I agree with the article. It is very sad when these type of people come to the surface.

It would be gomatic to suggest if every american, or every 15 year old was like this. But he doesn't state that, does he.

Its only 3 examples. However i have had the horrible pleasure of meeting hundreds of these "types" of people. They are shallow, very dense, have no understanding of anything and have the most basic grasp of general knowladge.

I personally blame "shiny magazines". All they talk about is "whats your ideal man" or "which hollywood star are YOU most like?" or "cringes".

When i was their age i was reading proper material ie books. I like to believe that i do not fall into the typical fashion culture - and am relatively free thinking and inquizative.

This article displays the sorry state that both of our cultures have, in parts, become. So call me dogmatic if you want, i really don't care to tell you the truth. Darling.

[Xvall]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 2:57 am on July 29, 2002
Another long winded posts written by somebody else, to be ignored, most definitely. When I see your name as the author, you can be sure that I will read it, peacenick.


Fine, from now on I will ignore any post by you or another capitalist that isn't written by themselves. (Basically, I will have to ignore everything Sol says!)

[James]

I hadn't read your big old post before darling, i'll disect now, so that you may understand the relevence of peace's post.

Now, I am in total agreement that these posts should be about original, individual thought and opinions, with of course links and references to articles of information that would support a submission. However, if one is to simply cut and paste an article, there should be at least some pretense of relevance.


See my above posting. Its not as much a simple dogmatic stab at america culture (in my own opinion), but more about how we are all now being brought up on brands, mags, TV etc etc, and this is the affect its having.

This guy, "Ben Roberts", seeks to guage the entire collective intelligence of the United States citizenry by a 15 year old chic from the midwest. What a freakin' pragmatist!


Quotes?

He claims these american ladies he met were "fascinated with the whole english thing". Maybe, or maybe they just concentrated on that because he was an ugly cuss and they felt sorry for him. He was english, so I predict the latter as the more probable scenario.

oooh, now look whos being collective and stuff, and making dogmatic stabs!

I live in England, "up norf" so its custom for the locals to not pronounce their T's and the what-not. I however speak very "proper" (posh, camp whatever you want to call it!). I find that people are intrested in my voice alot of the time, as a fashoin accesory. Take a look at an ad. I'm sure you'll get an ethnic minority guy on there, or a camp guy. Its the new "fashion" (see my post about mags).

So what if shew didn't kinow if the UK did or did not celebrate Easter? Some religious holidays are celebrated in different capacities across the atlantic. That is why she asked. For instance, they don't celebrate halloween in europe, which is an extension of all-saints day.


Ahem. Christians celebrate Easter - it being when christ got killed, then arose and all!

We "cellebrate" halloween. Also its a typical christian "cover up" of a pagan festivel. Do you want me to tell you more about this?

I see this all the time, this is a perfect example of an individual taking a minor faux pas and using it as a platform to over-criticize another's intelligence capacity cheifly as a technique to inflate his own sense of intelligence and esteem, which in their natural state are probalbly very low.


ahem, he got angry at her sheer stupidity. Which i agree with, she is obviously retarded! (or see my mags theory). He didn't have to make her look stupid at all. She did that all by her self.

Of courese, the "killing innocent civilians" thing, blah, blah, blah... i've posted this concept 101 times, here is 102: THE ONLY PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND INCIDENTALS IN AFGHANISTAN ARE THE 9/11 TERRORISTS, AL- QUEDA, AND THE TALIBAN!


Ahem, matter of opinion i suppose. Considering all (?) the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and blah blah blah

etc etc etc etc

[American Kid]

Not a matter of opinon. Fact. There would have been no bombs dropped on the heads of the Afghan people if their leaders had done the right thing to begin with.

DONE!

-AK

[American Kid]

This is a post that can also be read as a response to another member's, a post in the "extremist american nationalism" thread which raised a similar point.

But as I made a mandate to no longer personally respond this person's posts anymore, I am sticking to it.

:)

-AK

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from American Kid on 3:20 am on July 30, 2002
Not a matter of opinon. Fact. There would have been no bombs dropped on the heads of the Afghan people if their leaders had done the right thing to begin with.

DONE!

-AK

Some priests commited pedophillia does that mean all catholics should be thrown in jail?

You can't justify the ends by the means.

So the leaders didn't stop some terrorists, should a three year old really have his head splattered on a wall because of that.

[peaccenicked]

It is ironic that extreme Arab nationalists argue that Sept 11 would not have happened If the US admin done the right thing in the middle east.

[American Kid]

No, Lad, of course they shouldn't.

But if a bunch of Catholic priests got together and poisened the drinking water then hid out in the basement of the Cardinal's mansion using the nuns and seminarians as human shields, and the Cardinal was conspiring to not give them up, then I feel it would be time to send in Chuck Norris and the Delta Force.

-AK

(I'll see you in Chit Chat for my big celebration now...)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from American Kid on 3:32 am on July 30, 2002
No, Lad, of course they shouldn't.

But if a bunch of Catholic priests got together and poisened the drinking water then hid out in the basement of the Cardinal's mansion using the nuns and seminarians as human shields, and the Cardinal was conspiring to not give them up, then I feel it would be time to send in Chuck Norris and the Delta Force.

-AK

(I'll see you in Chit Chat for my big celebration now...)

actualy Burce Lee would be more affective than Chuck Norris. We should clone him.

Anyway the point is that the people shouldn't suffer for the Governments incompetance.

besides is there really a law requiring governments to take down terorists in their country?

(UN secrater shows Lardlad the law...he shuts up)

[American Kid]

...................where's my fuckin' third star? Anyway, 300 posts, not bad.

-AK

[Guest]

Quote: from Lardlad95 on 3:37 am on July 30, 2002

Anyway the point is that the people shouldn't suffer for the Governments incompetance.

besides is there really a law requiring governments to take down terorists in their country?

(UN secrater shows Lardlad the law...he shuts up)


Yes, people shouldn't suffer for their governments incompetence.. but they do, and in Afgahnistan everybody was suffering becuase of the Taliban incompetence and abuses. The US did a great thing in liberating the Afghans of an oppresive backwards regime as the Taliban.

[peaccenicked]

But who will liberate the Afghan and American people from corporate dictatorship?

[Guest]

Oh, and I don't know if there is some "law" requiring governements to take down terrorist groups in their own country, but who the hell cares anyway, it is common sense. In the case of Afghanistan not only was the Taliban not taking down the terrorist groups, but actually they were protecting them and aiding them.

[peaccenicked]

From Znet
The Colder War



by John Pilger
The Mirror
January 29, 2002




LAST week, the US government announced that it was building the biggest-ever war machine. Military spending will rise to $379billion, of which $50billion will pay for its "war on terrorism". There will be special funding for new, refined weapons of mass slaughter and for "military operations" - invasions of other countries.



Of all the extraordinary news since September 11, this is the most alarming. It is time to break our silence.



That is to say, it is time for other governments to break their silence, especially the Blair government, whose complicity in the American rampage in Afghanistan has not denied its understanding of the Bush administration's true plans and ambitions.



The recent statements of British Ministers about the "vindication" of the "outstanding success" in Afghanistan would be comical if the price of their "success" had not been paid with the lives of more than 5,000 innocent Afghani civilians and the failure to catch Osama bin Laden and anyone else of importance in the al-Qaeda network.



The Pentagon's release of deliberately provocative pictures of prisoners at Camp X-Ray on Cuba was meant to conceal this failure from the American public, who are being conditioned, along with the rest of us, to accept a permanent war footing similar to the paranoia that sustained and prolonged the Cold War.



The threat of "terrorism", some of it real, most of it invented, is the new Red Scare. The parallels are striking.



IN AMERICA in the 1950s, the Red Scare was used to justify the growth of war industries, the suspension of democratic rights and the silencing of dissenters. That is happening now.



Above all, the American industrial-complex has a new enemy with which to justify its gargantuan appetite for public resources - the new military budget is enough to end all primary causes of poverty in the world.



Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary, says he has told the Pentagon to "think the unthinkable."



Vice President Dick Cheney, the voice of Bush, has said the US is considering military or other action against "40 to 50 countries" and warns that the new war may last 50 years or more. A Bush adviser, Richard Perle, explained. "(There will be) no stages," he said.



"This is total war. We are fighting a variety of enemies. There are lots of them out there ... If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us years from now."



Their words evoke George Orwell's great prophetic work, Nineteen Eighty-Four. In the novel, three slogans dominate society: war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength.



Today's slogan, war on terrorism, also reverses meaning. The war is terrorism. The next American attack is likely to be against Somalia, a deeply impoverished country in the Horn of Africa.



Washington claims there are al-Qaeda terrorist cells there.



This is almost certainly a fiction spread by Somalia's overbearing neighbour, Ethiopia, in order to ingratiate itself with Washington. Certainly, there are vast oil fields off the coast of Somalia. For the Americans, there is the added attraction of "settling a score".



In 1993, in the last days of George Bush Senior's presidency, 18 American soldiers were killed in Somalia after the US Marines had invaded to "restore hope", as they put it.



A current Hollywood movie, Black Hawk Down, glamorises and lies about this episode. It leaves out the fact that the invading Americans left behind between 7,000 and 10,000 Somalis killed.



Like the victims of American bombing in Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Cambodia, and Vietnam and many other stricken countries, the Somalis are unpeople, whose deaths have no political and media value in the West.



WHEN Bush Junior's heroic marines return in their Black Hawk gunships, loaded with technology, looking for "terrorists", their victims will once again be nameless. We can then expect the release of Black Hawk Down II.



Breaking our silence means not allowing the history of our lifetimes to be written this way, with lies and the blood of innocent people. To understand the lie of what Blair/Straw/Hoon call the "outstanding success" in Afghanistan, read the work of the original author of "Total War", a man called Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was President Carter's National Security Adviser and is still a powerful force in Washington.



Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorised $500million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and "destabilise" the Soviet Union.



The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means "student").



Young zealots were sent to the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where future members of al-Qaeda were taught "sabotage skills" - terrorism.



Others were recruited at an Islamic school in Brooklyn, New York, within sight of the fated Twin Towers.



In Pakistan, they were directed by British MI6 officers and trained by the SAS.



The result, quipped Brzezinski, was "a few stirred up Muslims" - meaning the Taliban.



At that time, the late 1970s, the American goal was to overthrow Afghanistan's first progressive, secular government, which had granted equal rights to women, established health care and literacy programmes and set out to break feudalism.



When the Taliban seized power in 1996, they hanged the former president from a lamp-post in Kabul.



His body was still a public spectacle when Clinton administration officials and oil company executives were entertaining Taliban leaders in Washington and Houston, Texas. The Wall Street Journal declared: "The Taliban are the players most capable of achieving peace. Moreover, they were crucial to secure the country as a prime trans-shipment route for the export of Central Asia's vast oil, gas and other natural resources."



NO AMERICAN newspaper dares suggest that the prisoners in Camp X-Ray are the product of this policy, nor that it was one of the factors that led to the attacks of September 11.



Nor do they ask: who were the real winners of September 11?



The day the Wall Street stockmarket opened after the destruction of the Twin Towers, the few companies showing increased value were the giant military contractors Alliant Tech Systems, Northrop Gruman, Raytheon (a contributor to New Labour) and Lockheed Martin.



As the US military's biggest supplier, Lockheed Martin's share value rose by a staggering 30 per cent.



Within six weeks of September 11, the company (with its main plant in Texas, George Bush's home state) had secured the biggest military order in history: a $200billion contract to develop a new fighter aircraft. The greatest taboo of all, which Orwell would surely recognise, is the record of the United States as a terrorist state and haven for terrorists.



This truth is virtually unknown by the American public and makes a mockery of Bush's (and Blair's) statements about "tracking down terrorists wherever they are".



They don't have to look far.



Florida, currently governed by the President's brother, Jeb Bush, has given refuge to terrorists who, like the September 11 gang, have hi-jacked aircraft and boats with guns and knives. Most have never had criminal charges brought against them.



Why? All of them are anti-Castro Cubans. Former Guatemalan Defence Minister Gramajo Morales, who was accused of "devising and directing an indiscriminate campaign of terror against civilians", including the torture of an American nun and the massacre of eight people from one family, studied at Harvard University on a US government scholarship.



During the 1980s, thousands of people were murdered by death squads connected to the army of El Salvador, whose former chief now lives comfortably in Florida.



The former Haitian dictator, General Prosper Avril, liked to display the bloodied victims of his torture on television.



When he was overthrown, he was flown to Florida by the US government, and granted political asylum.



A leading member of the Chilean military during the reign of General Pinochet, whose special responsibility was executions and torture, lives in Miami.



The Iranian general who ran Iran's notorious prisons, is a wealthy exile in the US.



One of Pol Pot's senior henchmen, who enticed Cambodian exiles back to their certain death, lives in Mount Vernon, New York.



What all these people have in common, apart from their history of terrorism, is that they either worked directly for the US government or carried out the dirty work of US policies.



The al-Qaeda training camps are kindergartens compared with the world's leading university of terrorism at Fort Benning in Georgia. Known until recently as the School of the Americas, its graduates include almost half the cabinet ministers of the genocidal regimes in Guatemala, two thirds of the El Salvadorean army officers who committed, according to the United Nations, the worst atrocities of that country's civil war, and the head of Pinochet's secret police, who ran Chile's concentration camps.



There is terrible irony at work here. The humane response of people all over the world to the terrorism of September 11 has long been hijacked by those running a rapacious great power with a history of terrorism second to none. Global supremacy, not the defeat of terrorism, is the goal; only the politically blind believe otherwise.



The "widening gap between the world's "haves" and "have nots"', says a remarkably candid document of the US Space Command, presents "new challenges" to the world's superpower and which can only be met by "Full Spectrum Dominance" - dominance of land, sea, air and space.










(Edited by peaccenicked at 4:37 am on July 30, 2002)

[Stormin Norman]

Damn, twice in the same thread. You really know how to kill interest, Peacenicked.

[peaccenicked]

yeah every time you are faced with the truth you cry boredom, you capi truth lovers are so insincere.