Why? - Well??

[Vladimir]

Just starting to seem strange to me that this forum goes nowhere, soem commy challenges a cappie and they argue about why communism failed and how its evil, then its the cappies time to talk bullshit how capitalism is the great, fair system that its meant to be.

They are both idiots, i dont know the answer between the two, Democratic Socialism seems the fairest of both systems but everything has flaws.

So why do ye argue, not one arguement ends with some cappie changing sides or the same with a lefty.
Have ye noticed this too?
Im not going to argue theory in Soc Vs Cap coz i hate it, if an arguement comes up that concerns me or thats fairly iteresting then i will take it up, i mean im not here to fight with teens over the internet.......its bullshit.

IrishGuevara

[Stormin Norman]

You lack the conviction to completely back up the position which you support. That is why you hate it. Personally, I don't care if you wish to debate. I would rather not debate with peons, which lack the skills necessary to put forth a valid argument, or even the knowledge to explain there belief system.

[Vladimir]

And your belief system is what Normin?
Explain yours please.

Why would you want to debate with me?
The same, why would i want to debate with you.

[Stormin Norman]

I have explained my beliefs many times on this forum. Since I have written probably 2000 words since I have been here, and I need to get to work (my corporate controller), I will refrain, for the mean time. If you are trully curious there are some posts under Philosophy in the Chit Chat section. These posts should give you a good idea of what I am about, along with countless others. At least it will be a good introduction.

[Vladimir]

Norman,i read your philosophy stuff, your a smart guy who knows his shit and uses big complicated words like marmalade......lol, ill give that to ya, but first of all i wasnt trying to argue with you in the first place.

''So why do ye argue, not one arguement ends with some cappie changing sides or the same with a lefty.
Have ye noticed this too? ''

I was pointing that out and you come along and says '' I would rather not debate with peons, which lack the skills necessary to put forth a valid argument, or even the knowledge to explain there belief system. ''

So stop insulting me, ive never talked to you before and the first thing you say to me is that.

IrishGuevara

[Stormin Norman]

Sorry. That charge that you noted, however true, was not necessarily directed at you. Everything I said was a bit harsh and I apologize for being an ass. I was in a bit of a bad mood. Something has ruffeled my feathers. The fact that you even continue to speak with me after such an attack shows that you have character. Your post kind of paralleled the exact thing that has gotten me upset. I will cool my jets and think before I criticize others. It seems that some people want to completely silence someone whose opinion they find to be annoying. I deduced that you were of that type and took it out on you, the first person to come along. I feel bad, I feel real bad.

[American Kid]

I've brought up this exact same point before here, too.

Cappie, by the way. Nice to meet you.

(I fuckin' hate you!)

(I fuckin' hate YOU!)

Now that we've got that out of the way. Uh, okay, there's a thread here in S vs. C called "Stupid American Probiganda" (sic, the guy who started it is an idiot) and I arm-wrestle a tool-shed called "Field Marshall" for a few pages there. It's probably my favorite fight here. It was a real Clash of the Titans. You can read it, but you have to go back a page or two probably on the thread- list on the main S vs. C page, as it's a little old. Anyway, it starts, I think on the first or second page, then the shit hits the fan and we go back and forth for a few more.

But I'll repeat the gist of what I said there. See, the reason I like coming here is the same reason I like to read movie reviews. My friends give me shit about this:

"Pavlov (assumed name), why the fuck do you care what some prick movie revewier thinks of some movie?"

And the answer's pretty simple: because it's interesting. Will I NOT go see a movie, because some prick reviewer says a movie is shit? No. Well......Ha! Maybe. What I mean is, if it's a terrible review, I probably wouldn't want to waste my money. But if the situation arises where I do see it, I'm not going to base MY opinion one iota on what his was. The same with a good review. If I go see a flick that gets 4 stars, I don't LOVE IT before I've even seen it. I watch it and judge for myself. But the point is, I can enjoy other people's opinions, and not be left powerlessly influenced by them. Listening to other people doesn't make me a pushover, it just means I like what they have to say.

And that's why I like coming here. I like to read (I read 2 or 3 newspapers a day, along with other history-type books and other things which basically add up to the main reason I'm the biggest geek on the block) other people's opinions. Hey, it's real simple:

I'm an American, have been all my life, and it's totally fucking unbelievable to me that people from all over the world hate us, unconditionally. I mean, that's truly, truly shocking.

What better reason to come here than to find out why?

-Kid

[Vladimir]

Thank you Norman.

''I'm an American, have been all my life, and it's totally fucking unbelievable to me that people from all over the world hate us, unconditionally. I mean, that's truly, truly shocking.

What better reason to come here than to find out why? '' - Kid

Kid, i have never liked Americans as people ever, well i just see ye on television and i say ' fuckin idiots',
LOL..... I hate the 'televison americans', ive never been to America, but i hear yer very arrogant drivers....lol

IrishGuevara

[Stormin Norman]

I feel the same way when I watch television. The is a reason why they call it the idiot box. However, I am still drawn to it.

[American Kid]

And you know what? I FUCKIN' LOVE THE IRISH. Seriously, you people know how to fucking party. I have dear, dear friends from Longford, and they're super-cool. Hard to understand when you first meet them, though (thick, thick country accents).

What's the craic?

-Kid

[Vladimir]

LOL, thank you. You americans love the irish, unfortunatly i am not such a partier, yet. Fucking drinking laws!! 2 more years and then the drink will start flowing through my veins.
Isnt 21 the legal age in Yankeeland, thats a fuck up!

IrishGuevara

[Xvall]

Wait..
It's ILLEGAL for me to drink here?
Shit..

[peaccenicked]

I have always been a loss why capis would want to come to a site dedicated to Che Guevara and argue the toss with leftists. Are they stupid or something? What do the say to their girlfriends, is it a babe thing? Have they got lefty girlfriends who they are trying to con? What is so attractive about us? Imperial Power used to say he came here for amusement but I think he must be getting laid now. Surely the capis have got better things to do. Listen to the Beach Boys or go surfing.
Maybe the historical crusade against communism touches their paranoia but then they get to see that we are just a bb
and not an international conspiracy. It must be a big disappointment. How can they be all American heroes in the front line?
Did I say stupid? It is so baffling.
Perhaps they are just habitual spoilsports, who need to dump shit on somebody, anybody, us.

[American Kid]

I'll defer to my post.

douchebag.

-Kid

[peaccenicked]

You want to find out why people hate america here?
here is a hint
ok here it is, copied directly from the page:

" The mother of all terrorists...
to be taken quite literally! (PLEASE FORWARD)

For those of you who want facts and figures and have the intellect to judge 'good' from 'evil' and the courage to know and say out the truth....for the rest should leave this page NOW!

Ever since the United States Army massacred 300 Lakotas in 1890, American forces have intervened elsewhere around the globe 100 times. Indeed the United States has sent troops abroad or militarily struck other countries' territory 216 times since independence from Britain. Since 1945 the United States has intervened in more than 20 countries throughout the world.

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on 23 countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Grenada 1983,
Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-1999, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, and Yugoslavia 1999.


Post World War II, the United States has also assisted in over 20 different coups throughout the world, and the CIA was responsible for half a dozen assassinations of political heads of state.


The following is a comprehensive summary of the imperialist strategy of the United States over the span of the past century:

Argentina - 1890 - Troops sent to Buenos Aires to protect business interests.

Chile - 1891 - Marines sent to Chile and clashed with nationalist rebels.

Haiti - 1891 - American troops suppress a revolt by Black workers on United States-claimed Navassa Island.


Hawaii - 1893 - Navy sent to Hawaii to overthrow the independent kingdom - Hawaii annexed by the United States.

Nicaragua - 1894 - Troops occupied Bluefields, a city on the Caribbean Sea, for a month.

China - 1894-95 - Navy, Army, and Marines landed during the Sino-Japanese War.

Korea - 1894-96 - Troops kept in Seoul during the war.


Panama - 1895 - Army, Navy, and Marines landed in the port city of Corinto.

China - 1894-1900 - Troops occupied China during the Boxer Rebellion.

Philippines - 1898-1910 - Navy and Army troops landed after the Philippines fell during the Spanish-American War; 600,000 Filipinos were killed.

Cuba - 1898-1902 - Troops seized Cuba in the Spanish-American War; the United States still maintains troops at Guantanamo Bay today.

Puerto Rico - 1898 - present - Troops seized Puerto Rico in the Spanish-American War and still occupy Puerto Rico today.

Nicaragua - 1898 - Marines landed at the port of San Juan del Sur.

Samoa - 1899 - Troops landed as a result over the battle for succession to the throne.

Panama - 1901-14 - Navy supported the revolution when Panama claimed independence from Colombia. American troops have occupied the Canal Zone since 1901 when
construction for the canal began.

Honduras - 1903 - Marines landed to intervene during a revolution.

Dominican Rep 1903-04 - Troops landed to protect American interests during a revolution.

Korea - 1904-05 - Marines landed during the Russo-Japanese War.

Cuba - 1906-09 - Troops landed during an election.

Nicaragua - 1907 - Troops landed and a protectorate was set up.

Honduras - 1907 - Marines landed during Honduras' war with Nicaragua.

Panama - 1908 - Marines sent in during Panama's election.

Nicaragua - 1910 - Marines landed for a second time in Bluefields and Corinto.

Honduras - 1911 - Troops sent in to protect American interests during Honduras' civil war.

China - 1911-41 - Navy and troops sent to China during continuous flare-ups.

Cuba - 1912 - Troops sent in to protect American interests in Havana.

Panama - 1912 - Marines landed during Panama's election.

Honduras - 1912 - Troops sent in to protect American interests.

Nicaragua - 1912-33 - Troops occupied Nicaragua and fought guerrillas during its 20-year civil war.

Mexico - 1913 - Navy evacuated Americans during revolution.

Dominican Rep 1914 - Navy fought with rebels over Santo Domingo.

Mexico - 1914-18 - Navy and troops sent in to intervene against nationalists.

Haiti - 1914-34 - Troops occupied Haiti after a revolution and occupied Haiti for 19 years.

Dominican Rep 1916-24 - Marines occupied the Dominican Republic for eight years.

Cuba - 1917-33 - Troops landed and occupied Cuba for 16 years; Cuba became an economic protectorate.

World War I - 1917-18 - Navy and Army sent to Europe to fight the Axis powers.

Russia - 1918-22 - Navy and troops sent to eastern Russia after the Bolshevik Revolution; Army made five landings.

Honduras - 1919 - Marines sent during Honduras' national elections.

Guatemala - 1920 - Troops occupied Guatemala for two weeks during a union strike.

Turkey - 1922 - Troops fought nationalists in Smyrna.

China - 1922-27 - Navy and Army troops deployed during a nationalist revolt.

Honduras - 1924-25 - Troops landed twice during a national election.

Panama - 1925 - Troops sent in to put down a general strike.

China - 1927-34 - Marines sent in and stationed for seven years throughout China.

El Salvador - 1932 - Naval warships deployed during the FMLN revolt under Marti.

World War II - 1941-45 - Military fought the Axis powers: Japan, Germany, and Italy.

Yugoslavia - 1946 - Navy deployed off the coast of Yugoslavia in response to the downing of an American plane.

Uruguay - 1947 - Bombers deployed as a show of military force.

Greece - 1947-49 - United States operations insured a victory for the far right in national "elections."

Germany - 1948 - Military deployed in response to the Berlin blockade; the Berlin airlift lasts 444 days.

Philippines - 1948-54 - The CIA directed a civil war against the Filipino Huk revolt.

Puerto Rico - 1950 - Military helped crush an independence rebellion in Ponce.

Korean War - 1951-53 - Military sent in during the war.

Iran - 1953 - The CIA orchestrated the overthrow of democratically elected Mossadegh and restored the Shah
to power.

Vietnam - 1954 - The United States offered weapons to the French in the battle against Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh.

Guatemala - 1954 - The CIA overthrew the democratically elected Arbenz and placed Colonel Armas in power.

Egypt - 1956 - Marines deployed to evacuate foreigners after Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal.

Lebanon - 1958 - Navy supported an Army occupation of Lebanon during its civil war.

Panama - 1958 - Troops landed after Panamanians demonstrations threatened the Canal Zone.

Vietnam - 1950s-75 - Vietnam War.

Cuba - 1961 - The CIA-directed Bay of Pigs invasions failed to overthrow the Castro government.

Cuba - 1962 - The Navy quarantines Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Laos - 1962 - Military occupied Laos during its civil war against the Pathet Lao guerrillas.

Panama - 1964 - Troops sent in and Panamanians shot while protesting the United States presence in the Canal Zone.

Indonesia - 1965 - The CIA orchestrated a military coup.

Dominican Rep- 1965-66 - Troops deployed during a national election.

Guatemala - 1966-67 - Green Berets sent in.

Cambodia - 1969-75 - Military sent in after the Vietnam War expanded into Cambodia.

Oman - 1970 - Marines landed to direct a possible invasion into Iran.

Laos - 1971-75 - Americans carpet-bomb the countryside during Laos' civil war.

Chile - 1973 - The CIA orchestrated a coup, killing President Allende who had been popularly elected. The CIA helped to establish a military regime under General Pinochet.

Cambodia - 1975 - Twenty-eight Americans killed in an effort to retrieve the crew of the Mayaquez, which had been seized.

Angola - 1976-92 - The CIA backed South African rebels fighting against Marxist Angola.

Iran - 1980 - Americans aborted a rescue attempt to liberate 52 hostages seized in the Teheran embassy.

Libya - 1981 - American fighters shoot down two Libyan fighters.

El Salvador - 1981-92 - The CIA, troops, and advisers aid in El Salvador's war against the FMLN.

Nicaragua - 1981-90 - The CIA and NSC directed the Contra War against the Sandinistas.

Lebanon - 1982-84 - Marines occupied Beirut during Lebanon's civil war; 241 were killed in the American barracks and Reagan "redeployed" the troops to the Mediterranean.

Honduras - 1983-89 - Troops sent in to build bases near the Honduran border.

Grenada - 1983-84 - American invasion overthrew the Maurice Bishop government.

Iran - 1984 - American fighters shot down two Iranian planes over the Persian Gulf.

Libya - 1986 - American fighters hit targets in and around the capital city of Tripoli.

Bolivia - 1986 - The Army assisted government troops on raids of cocaine areas.

Iran - 1987-88 - The United States intervened on the side of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War.

Libya - 1989 - Navy shot down two more Libyan jets.

Virgin Islands - 1989 - Troops landed during unrest
among Virgin Island peoples.

Philippines - 1989 - Air Force provided air cover for
government during coup.

Panama - 1989-90 - 27,000 Americans landed in
overthrow of President Noriega; over 2,000 Panama
civilians were killed.

Liberia - 1990 - Troops entered Liberia to evacuate
foreigners during civil war.

Saudi Arabia - 1990-91 - American troops sent to Saudi
Arabia, which was a staging area in the war against
Iraq.

Kuwait - 1991 - Troops sent into Kuwait to turn back
Saddam Hussein.

Somalia - 1992-94 - Troops occupied Somalia during
civil war.

Bosnia - 1993-95 - Air Force jets bombed "no-fly zone"
during civil war in Yugoslavia.

Haiti - 1994-96 - American troops and Navy provided a
blockade against Haiti's military government. The CIA
restored Aristide to power.

Zaire - 1996-97 - Marines sent into Rwanda Hutus'
refugee camps in the area where the Congo revolution
began.

Albania - 1997 - Troops deployed during evacuation of
foreigners.

Sudan - 1998 - American missiles destroyed a
pharmaceutical complex where alleged nerve gas
components were manufactured.

Afghanistan - 1998 - Missiles launched towards alleged
Afghan terrorist training camps.

Yugoslavia - 1999 - Bombings and missile attacks
carried out by the United States in conjunction with
NATO in the 11 week war against Milosevic.

Iraq - 1998-2001 - Missiles launched into Baghdad and
other large Iraq cities for four days. American jets
enforced "no-fly zone" and continued to hit Iraqi
targets since December 1998.

These **100** instances of American military
intervention did not include times when the United
States:

(1) deployed military police overseas;

(2) mobilized the National Guard;

(3) sent Navy ships off the coast of numerous
countries as a show of strength;

(4) sent additional troops to areas where Americans
were already stationed;

(5) carried out covert actions where American forces
were not under the direct rule of an American command;


(6) used small hostage rescue units;

(7) used American pilots to fly foreign planes;

(8) carried out military training and advisory
programs which did not involve direct combat.


U. S. Government Assassination Plots
====================================

Following is a list of prominent foreign leaders whose assassination
(or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since
the end of Second World War. The list does not include several
assassinations in various parts of the world carried out by anti-Castro
Cubans employed by CIA and headquartered in the United States:

LIST A: NON MUSLIMS

1949 - KIm Koo, Korean opposition leader
1950's - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of numerous political figures in
West Germany
1955 - Jose' Antonio Remon, President of Panama
1950's Chou En-lai, Prime Minister of China, several attempts
on his life
1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premiere of North Korea
1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader
1955 - Jawar Lal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
1959 and 1963 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
1950s-70s - Jose Figueres, President of Costa Rica,
two attempts on his life
1961 - Francois "Papa Doc"Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 - Patrice Lumumba , Prime Minister of Congo (Zaire)
1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, more than
15 attempts on his life
1960s - Raul Castro, high official in government of Cuba
1965 - Francisco Caamanao, Dominican Republic opposition leader
1965 - Pierre Ngendandumwe, Prime Minister of Burundi
1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970 - Salvadore Allende, President of Chile
1970 - General Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
1970s and 1981 - Gen. Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 - The nine commandantes of the Sandanista
National Directorate
1980's - Dr. Gerald Bull, Canadian Ballistics Scientist
assassinated by Mossad in Belgium.

Partial List of Muslim Leaders Assassinated or
Attempted Assassinations
1950's Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
1960 Brigadier General, Abdul Karim Kassem, Leader of Iraq
1980-86 Muammar Qaddafi, Leader of Libya, several plots and
attempts upon his life
1982 Ayatullah Khomeini, Leader of Iran
1983 General Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan army Commander
1985 Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadllallah, Lebanese Shiite Leader
(80 people killed in that attempt)
1991 Saddam Hussein, Leader of Iraq
Reference: Blum, William, "KILLING HOPE - U.S. Military and
CIA Interventions Since World War II," Appendix III
U.S. Government Assassination Plots, page 453,
Common Courage Press, Monroe, Maine 1995. ISBN 1-56751-052-3

Very likely Victims :
April 4, 1979 - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Leader of Pakistan, for pursuing making
of
Nuclear Bomb.
August, 1988. General Ziaul Haq, Military Leader of Pakistan.
1995 - Murtaza Bhutto, Son of ZUlfiqar Ali Bhutto, Anti-American
would-be Leader - Pakistan.
March 25, 1975 - King Faisal of Saudi Arabia through his Nephew, Saudi
Arabia
for imposing 1973 Oil Embargo.
August 24, 1999. Mullah Mohammad Omar, in Kandhar, Afghanistan.
|
"À"List of Known Assassination Plots
1950's Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser, President
2001 Since early this year more than 40 Palestinian leaders assassinated
through surrogate Israel.
Law of Nature: Newton's Third Law in Physics: "For every Action, there is an
equal and opposite Reaction."
Reaction: Tuesday, September 11, 2001, World Trade Center struck by two
planes, and Pentagon, commandeered by 19 hi-jackers of Arab origin, killing
more than 5 thousand people.

Please visit http://www.tanzeem.org

[American Kid]

Right, and I cheated on my girlfriend in tenth grade.

"Let ye tosseth the first stone who hath not been....yada....."

Thanks for wasting valuable, scarce web space.

Keep hating by the way. I'm sure you'll be here someday.

[Brian]

I think the drinking age in the U.S should be lowered to 18, If 18 is old a nuff for a person to pick up a ciggarette then it should be old a nuff where a person should be able to pick up a beer.

[peaccenicked]

AK, I dont hate America, It is a beautiful land full of wonder and awe, poetry, novels,art, even some great films. What I hate is power and power is violence. It is an indecency that we ought try and abolish.
Next to power is stupidity, not all stupidity because some of that is inexperience but defending big power interests is inexcusable. It is like slapping humanity in the face and I am not one to turn the other cheek.

[American Kid]

Okay, see this is better (I'm reading it for the first time after what I just wrote in "Fatty Americans"). Well-written too.

I don't agree with you. I will debate you on this. It's twelve thirty in the morning here in the land of the free, home of the brave, and I'm going to bed, but this is a good start and I'll fight you tomorrow.

Promise.

-AK

[Capitalist Imperial]

Peacenicked, the American sphere of influence, in its benevolence, must sometimes undertake just action in the name of freedom, democracy and in the interests of the american people and our allies.

On behalf of the american people, I apologize for any collateral damage or other "incidentals" that resulted forom the above referenced actions.

I do, however, support american sovereignty.

[peaccenicked]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:47 pm on July 24, 2002
Peacenicked, the American sphere of influence, in its benevolence, must sometimes undertake just action in the name of freedom, democracy and in the interests of the american people and our allies.

On behalf of the american people, I apologize for any collateral damage or other "incidentals" that resulted forom the above referenced actions.

I do, however, support american sovereignty.

What is so benevolent about maintaining and exacerbating world poverty? Supporting fascist regimes
and assuring world domination.

[Capitalist Imperial]

We are hardly exacerbating world poverty.

In fact, we give more in direct relief, debt relief, and humanitarian aid than any other nation.

[peaccenicked]

Yeah but that is about giving a cent to someone you have just mugged for $100. And in the case of the US it gives one of the lowest percentages of its GNP in the world.