A day at a drinking place/cafè in Norway (not any drunken stories sorry about that)

[eyedrop]

I decided to post this topic here as well as I wanted some views on this from the other side of the fence too.

After sitting in the religion part of this forum arguing with some religious freaks I decided to go out and take a few beers and chat some. We sit and chat some and gets into the discussion about religious people, not by my initation btw. Then we just start laughing loudly about all the silly thing theists believe and how they must miss some logic thing in their brain. This was some people I've never discussed the topic with them beforehand but everyone just assumed that everyone thought religious people where stupid. Just as everyone could make fun of some flat-earth fanatics. It mostly is socially acceptable to make fun of religion while the opposite is not.

True we still have some religious persons but the would be to embarressed to mention anything about it. They would never sit a few of them at a bar and laugh loudly about the folly of sensible persons as they would get stared at. Friends would remember them and think less of them because of it. It seems to me that at least in the younger generation here religiousness is mostly instinct.


What I wonder about is how it is to live in one of those reason-abandoned places on earth. Would atheists hold shut about their atheism and religious people would make openly fun of atheists?

I've been a week in the US (New York) and 3 months in Central-America but that isn't really enough to find out the social rules that applies in the area.

[Bud Struggle]

I went out and saw Bruce Springsteen tonight with my wife and 14 yo. daughter. It was the first time she ever went to a concert. It does feel kind of funny going to a rock concert with your kid. :cool:

[pusher robot]

What I wonder about is how it is to live in one of those reason-abandoned places on earth. Would atheists hold shut about their atheism and religious people would make openly fun of atheists?

I find that neither side really feels any need to shut the hell up over here in Wisconsin. As a general rule, someone will state an opinion, someone else will challenge them, there will be some back-and-forth, one side will withdraw or grow bored, and both parties will end with reconciliatory agreement that everyone is entitled to believe what they want. Outright mockery in a public place is actually pretty rare on either side unless they're looking for a fight, because odds are good that somebody would step up to the defense of either side. The exception is for totally out-of-the-mainstream wackos like Fred Phelps. He is openly mocked and heckled in public. These little micro-debates take place frequently, especially during an election season.

[cappin]

When I hear Christians talking, I always keep my mouth shut. They're not worth the discussion and they're uninterested in what I have to say.

[Bluetongue]

Then we just start laughing loudly about all the silly thing theists believe and how they must miss some logic thing in their brain.

I would consider this decidedly rude. In one of the subcultures I visit (gay male american), Christians are not held in high regard, largely because the religion is associated with homophobia. You might get a joke or two:

Dragqueen Sophia Lorent: I found baby Jesus! He was behind the sofa all along!

but you can definitely take it too far. There are too many intelligent, kind people that are religious - it's preposterous to think that they're all delusional or selective-dumb. Generally, with the people I hang out with, intolerance is not acceptable. The only acceptable targets for mockery are the ultra-fanatics, on either side.

[eyedrop]

I would consider this decidedly rude. In one of the subcultures I visit (gay male american), Christians are not held in high regard, largely because the religion is associated with homophobia. You might get a joke or two:

Dragqueen Sophia Lorent: I found baby Jesus! He was behind the sofa all along!

but you can definitely take it too far. There are too many intelligent, kind people that are religious - it's preposterous to think that they're all delusional or selective-dumb. Generally, with the people I hang out with, intolerance is not acceptable. The only acceptable targets for mockery are the ultra-fanatics, on either side.

Off course there are smart people. One can be the smartest person in the world and start with a wrong axiom and follow through with complete logical reasoning and still end up at an absurd conclusion. The things one mock are also the things that only apply to the fanatic's. I would think a moderate christian would agree that the claim that the earth is made in god by 5 days and such would be absurd. The tendency seems to have gone such that in a hundred years what would now be seen as moderate would be viewed as fanatic.

Would you think that mocking flat earth beliefs would be wrong? I think it's perfectly fine too mock beliefs that you see as absurd. I think i's perfectly fine to mock an illogical belief and those who believe it as having failed to applied logic in their belief in it.

[pusher robot]

Would you think that mocking flat earth beliefs would be wrong? I think it's perfectly fine too mock beliefs that you see as absurd. I think i's perfectly fine to mock an illogical belief and those who believe it as having failed to applied logic in their belief in it.

Surely if it's illogical then mockery is not necessary, simple argumentation will do. The point of mockery is to make some one feel bad, as is necessary if their beliefs are, say, evil or destructive, or if they are behaving badly in support of their beliefs, not to bully your way into winning a debate by hurting the feelings of your opponent.

In the case of a flat-earther, I would present all the logical reasons why they are wrong, or why their denials of reality are not persuasive. I would probably use arguments of reducto ad absurdum. But I wouldn't be a bully about it without good reason.

I take a similar stance toward 9/11 truthers.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

A day at a drinking... (http://www.revleft.com/vb/index.html?goto=newpost) by pusher robot (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?find=lastposter&f=38)

This is what drew me to this thread, and ow I am profoundly disappointed.

I propose that pusher robot tell us some of the many crazy drinking stories I'm sure he has accumulated over the years.

[eyedrop]

Surely if it's illogical then mockery is not necessary, simple argumentation will do. The point of mockery is to make some one feel bad, as is necessary if their beliefs are, say, evil or destructive, or if they are behaving badly in support of their beliefs, not to bully your way into winning a debate by hurting the feelings of your opponent.

In the case of a flat-earther, I would present all the logical reasons why they are wrong, or why their denials of reality are not persuasive. I would probably use arguments of reducto ad absurdum. But I wouldn't be a bully about it without good reason.

I take a similar stance toward 9/11 truthers. Sure, argumentation is the best solution. But one doesn't always have the time or actually care to go over an overdone debate once again.

When an flat-earther confronts you (weird situation, never seen one before) one would either take the debate or say; "one other time" and not ridicule him to his face. For other situations it's a perfectly fine theme for jokes.

Do you never make fun of 9/11 truthers even though there may be some 9/11 truther who may hear it?

On the other hand I once found an atheist-joke book in a christian hostel in Belize. With jokes about atheists. I found that incredible funny, but probably not for the reasons the authors intended

[Bluetongue]

I feel no need whatsoever to sit around and talk about why other people are wrong.

For me, a good belief system is one that helps you be a good, productive individual. Your belief system is "wrong" if it leads you to be an ass. That's what belief systems are *for*, it's what they do.

Considering one belief system superior to another based on how it maps to some perceived absolute reality is mindless - it's your belief system that structures your conception of that reality. The Christians just sit at their table and mock you FOR EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS. The reason both of you engage in mockery is because you know, at some level, how shaky your sense of superiority really is.

Let it go. Judge people by what they do and how they act. It's much more functional.