Fuck you I won't do what you tell me - our lives are command

[Hattori Hanzo]

the government beureuacrats force their beliefs upon us, and so the US is only a "democracy" around election time, which is not often. until then we have to endure our mistakes in character judgement. there has to be a better way, because only the majority are served, as well as any beureacrat

[Nateddi]

I agree the American electoral system is messed up..... I wouldn't be that emotional about it though.

[Hattori Hanzo]

heh heh, you know the ending to "killing in the name of" by RATM?

[Marc]

I agree entirely,

Have you seen the latest bright idea from the Bush administration? They intend to make 5% of the US population government informers due to fears about internal terrorism. Thats a higher fraction of informers than existed in East Germany during the cold War!!!!

Zack got it right yet again- "What?!! Land of the free? Whoever told ya that is your enemy"

[Red Revolution]

The US political system is as you say crooked. Also have you ever noticed the high military influence in the US almost like a military dictatorship wouldn't you say?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 8:43 pm on July 18, 2002
the government beureuacrats force their beliefs upon us, and so the US is only a "democracy" around election time, which is not often. until then we have to endure our mistakes in character judgement. there has to be a better way, because only the majority are served, as well as any beureacrat


How does the US government "force" beliefs on you. If you think that, you obviously have no understanding of the information resources available to you in the USA.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 8:56 pm on July 18, 2002
heh heh, you know the ending to "killing in the name of" by RATM?


RATM: OK music, but weak lyrics, the worlds most hypocritical band

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Marc on 9:16 pm on July 18, 2002
I agree entirely,

Have you seen the latest bright idea from the Bush administration? They intend to make 5% of the US population government informers due to fears about internal terrorism. Thats a higher fraction of informers than existed in East Germany during the cold War!!!!

Zack got it right yet again- "What?!! Land of the free? Whoever told ya that is your enemy"


Zach De la Rocha is a fool.

Why don't you actually explian to me how this is not the land of the free?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 9:42 pm on July 18, 2002
The US political system is as you say crooked. Also have you ever noticed the high military influence in the US almost like a military dictatorship wouldn't you say?


Absolutely not! Where is the "high military influence"?

You are decribing the soviet union, not the USA!!!

[Genwes]

it's interesting to notice the high CIVILIAN influence in the US military...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Genwes on 10:16 pm on July 18, 2002
it's interesting to notice the high CIVILIAN influence in the US military...

Thank you, Genwes! Our system is set up so that our military is under civilian authority (dept of defense, president is cheif in command).

Sometimes the people who post here don't understand the US government and military as much as they think they do.

[samaniego]

It's not the govt. controlling people even they are controlled. The true leaders of the US. are major corporations, it's them who control your tv, music, books, clothes, educational system and almost any other thing you can think of. There is in fact very few politicians who actually care about democracy or the people. By the way cool Title.

[GuerillaPurserTwo]

I hate u Capitalist Imperial, I don't hate all Capitalists, I just hate what they do, but u I hate, piss off

[abstractmentality]

samaniego has a lot of it right. in comskys words, why would an institution allow itself to be undermined? it wouldnt, and thats part of the belief system instilled in us. as far as the information out there, that can be lumped into this. major newpapers/ news stations are not going to put up information that may undermine itself (by losing corporate sponsership), therefore, you do not see many of the things happening in the world, only the things that the newspapers/newschannels corporate sponsors would like you to see. yes there are independent presses, but how many people in america even get the chance to read them, or even hear about them? not many.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 5:04 pm on July 19, 2002
samaniego has a lot of it right. in comskys words, why would an institution allow itself to be undermined? it wouldnt, and thats part of the belief system instilled in us. as far as the information out there, that can be lumped into this. major newpapers/ news stations are not going to put up information that may undermine itself (by losing corporate sponsership), therefore, you do not see many of the things happening in the world, only the things that the newspapers/newschannels corporate sponsors would like you to see. yes there are independent presses, but how many people in america even get the chance to read them, or even hear about them? not many.

We have access to the BBC, PBS, NPR, independent press (which is highly accessible), and most importantly the internet.

It is a grand fallacy that americans only get their information from network television or mainstream periodicals

[Hattori Hanzo]

"How does the US government "force" beliefs on you. If you think that, you obviously have no understanding of the information resources available to you in the USA."

not that they make us beleive hte smae things as us, just that they try, and are often very successful. remember, the government has the power of the army and the law.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:55 pm on July 18, 2002

Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 8:56 pm on July 18, 2002
heh heh, you know the ending to "killing in the name of" by RATM?


RATM: OK music, but weak lyrics, the worlds most hypocritical band

lol lol hell no

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from samaniego on 4:41 am on July 19, 2002
It's not the govt. controlling people even they are controlled. The true leaders of the US. are major corporations, it's them who control your tv, music, books, clothes, educational system and almost any other thing you can think of. There is in fact very few politicians who actually care about democracy or the people. By the way cool Title.


i'll second that, along with thousands of people from all over america, cappie or commie

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 7:08 pm on July 19, 2002

Quote: from abstractmentality on 5:04 pm on July 19, 2002
samaniego has a lot of it right. in comskys words, why would an institution allow itself to be undermined? it wouldnt, and thats part of the belief system instilled in us. as far as the information out there, that can be lumped into this. major newpapers/ news stations are not going to put up information that may undermine itself (by losing corporate sponsership), therefore, you do not see many of the things happening in the world, only the things that the newspapers/newschannels corporate sponsors would like you to see. yes there are independent presses, but how many people in america even get the chance to read them, or even hear about them? not many.

We have access to the BBC, PBS, NPR, independent press (which is highly accessible), and most importantly the internet.

It is a grand fallacy that americans only get their information from network television or mainstream periodicals


well, CI is right on this one

[American Kid]

Actually asbractmentality, I was watching Foxnews last night, and the New York Times is in big trouble. It, along with the Chicago Tribune, and another paper I can't remember, were very very critical through their editorial pages, of Enron during the whole you-know-what. However, it's been revealed that these three major papers have also been up to the same crack-accounting that Enron itself was, and were sort of "nimbly" juggling the books themselves.

But what's really interesting, is further digging revealed that Enron was actually a CORPORATE SPONSER of the New York Times all along, and had a hand in the funding and/or producing of the very paper it's printed on.

I think all you have to do is sit in on a lecture in any journalism class in any college in this country to easily see that the last concern of any true journalist, is who's signing the fucking checks to publish what they're writing.

I mean, that must be part of the fun, kicking up sand in the face of the suit with the checkbook.

-Kid

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from American Kid on 7:48 pm on July 19, 2002
Actually asbractmentality, I was watching Foxnews last night, and the New York Times is in big trouble. It, along with the Chicago Tribune, and another paper I can't remember, were very very critical through their editorial pages, of Enron during the whole you-know-what. However, it's been revealed that these three major papers have also been up to the same crack-accounting that Enron itself was, and were sort of "nimbly" juggling the books themselves.

But what's really interesting, is further digging revealed that Enron was actually a CORPORATE SPONSER of the New York Times all along, and had a hand in the funding and/or producing of the very paper it's printed on.

I think all you have to do is sit in on a lecture in any journalism class in any college in this country to easily see that the last concern of any true journalist, is who's signing the fucking checks to publish what they're writing.

I mean, that must be part of the fun, kicking up sand in the face of the suit with the checkbook.

-Kid


ok, yeah

[Hattori Hanzo]

RATM rocks!
THEY ROCK!
FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!

[American Kid]

Nowwwww was that, "Okay, yeah. Good point American Kid. You conclusively presented to the forum a clear, consise argument, wherein you named sources and contributed to the debate a well-thought out and constuctive idea." ?

Orrrrrr was that, "Okay, yeah. American Kid, you cappie piece of shit. You should stick to your usual pointless, directionless posts, where granted you display a keen sense of humor, yet nonetheless have NOTHING to say, nor ANYTHING to contribute. Now go punch in on your time card and await the revolution which should be coming soon directly to your backyard." ?

Because I think I made a pretty good fucking point.

-The mothafuckin' Kid

[Hattori Hanzo]

HAHA you've gotta love AK! the first one, good point

[American Kid]

BTW, Haratio, you actually just kind of startled me. I swear to Christ.

I moved my cursor down to proof-read my response to you. Well I guess while I was writing it you began to imagine you were at a rock concert. So I'm moving down, expecting to see my shit, and then I see in big capital letters: RATM rocks!
THEY ROCK YOU
FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!

And I'm like, ".....The FUCK? I didn't write this..."

But anyway, very...........scatological of you.

-De La Kidcha

[American Kid]

Okay. Cool, thanks.

-AK

[Hattori Hanzo]

haha
do you like Rage Against the Machine, Kid?

[American Kid]

I do.

"SO NOW I'M ROLLIN' DOWN RODEO WITH A SHOTGUN!!"

That's fucking great. I've also been caught on more than one occasion playing air-guitar and jumping around my bedroom like an escaped mental patient to "Bulls on Parade."

"BULLS ON PARRAADDDDEE!!!!!!"

-DA KIDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!

[abstractmentality]

CI,
as i said in what i wrote, yes, we do have these independet presses, but what percentage of americans venture into them? "studies of Soviet society based on interviews with former Soviet citizens now living in the United States found that 96 percent of the middle elite and 77 percent of blue-collar workers in the Soviet Union listened to foreign radio broadcasts" - from the footnotes of Understanding Power by Chomsky. i dont think that the percentages in the united states would be anything close to this. im not saying that they had a great system over there, im just stating some statistics.

AK,
i dont read or get the new york times, as i live in so cal (but i think you can still get it over here, yes?). i think the journalist, in this case, could be highley critical of enron, as they (new york times in general) probably dont expect much funding to come from enron in the future. also, they can be critical of some things, but others are not to be touched. check out this excerpt from understanding power:
"I mean, there were real crimes of the Nixon administration, and he should have been tried-but not for any of the watergate business. take the bombings of cambodia, for instance: the bombing of Cambodia was infinitely worse than anything that came up in the watergate hearings-this thing they call the 'secret bombings' of cambodia, which was secret because the press didnt talk about what they knew (34)." and the footnote that goes along with 34 says:
On the bombing of Cambodia being "secret" due to the U.S. media's failure to report what they knew, see for example, U.S. Senate, Hearings Before the Committee on Armed Services, Bombing in Cambodia, 93rd Congress, 2nd Session, Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, July/August 1974, pp. 158-160. These hearings confirm that information about the U.S. bombings of Cambodia was publicly available as early as nine days after they began, with a March 27, 1969, Press Release from the Royal Government of Cambodia, distributed through the Foreign Broadcast Information Service. This Press Release stated that "the Cambodian population living in the border regions has been bombed and strafed almost daily by U.S. aircraft, and the number of people killed, as well as material destruction, continues to grow." On April 2, 1969, the same source then distributed excerpts from a press conference held by the reigning monarch of Cambodia, Prince Sihanouk, in which he stated:

[The media] pretend that I would not oppose U.S. bombings of communist targets within my frontiers. But I have never said that I would not oppose this. Nobody, no chief of state in the world placed in the same same [sic] situation as I am, would agree to let foreign aircraft bomb his own country. . . . It is not only the communists who receive U.S. bombs on their heads. Unarmed and innocent people have been victims of U.S. bombs. You know very well that in Cambodia . . . we were very bitter and angry [at] news about the latest bombing, the victims of which were Khmer peasants, women and children in particular. I wish to reaffirm that I have always been opposed to the bombings.

Prince Sihanouk then appealed to the Western press "to publicize abroad this very clear stand of Cambodia -- that is, I will in any case oppose all bombings on Cambodian territory under whatever pretext. I will oppose them under whatever pretext for the simple reason, I repeat, that the victims of U.S. bombings are never the communists but only the peasants and children." Sihanouk's opposition to the American bombing has since been erased from history. See for example, Seth Mydans, "Death of Pol Pot," New York Times, April 17, 1998, p. A14 (claiming that Sihanouk did not oppose the U.S. bombing).

thats it right there. somethings are not to be said, and others are allowed.

i have had one journalism class, but that was in high school, and we didnt have complete freedom due to the hazelwood case, if i remember right. yes, it may be fun to kick sand in the face of the one with the check book, but if the checkbook stays writing checks, you probably wont being a journalist for that paper much longer. notice the key word probably, as this sometimes doesnt happen.

sorry this one is so long, i didnt plan on it to be so long when i began writing.



(Edited by abstractmentality at 1:16 pm on July 19, 2002)

[Hattori Hanzo]

YES!
Ya know the killed X
and tryed to blame it on Islam
what was the price on his head/
I think I heard a shot...
WAKE UP! WAKE UP!

[abstractmentality]

i must say that i do love rage as well. a friend of mine (killingstars on the board) says that Zach bumped into her at a concert she was at in the crowd while he was dancing. this was after the band broke up. kinda cool.

[Hattori Hanzo]

very cool

[Guest]

How can Britain call themselves a democracy? We have laws on homosexuality. And racism! Why have laws when it shouldn't even be an issue. I say do what you want within reason FUCK THE DAMN GOVERNMENT! Sick bunch of bastard liars!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from samaniego on 4:41 am on July 19, 2002
It's not the govt. controlling people even they are controlled. The true leaders of the US. are major corporations, it's them who control your tv, music, books, clothes, educational system and almost any other thing you can think of. There is in fact very few politicians who actually care about democracy or the people. By the way cool Title.


corporations are absolutely unrelated to our public education system, and our politicians are under-appreciated, and do their best to support legislation in the interests of their constituencies

[killingstars]

yes, Zach likes to dance to defacto. nice guy, he apologized a couple of times to me. very cool.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from abstractmentality on 9:03 pm on July 19, 2002
i must say that i do love rage as well. a friend of mine (killingstars on the board) says that Zach bumped into her at a concert she was at in the crowd while he was dancing. this was after the band broke up. kinda cool.


"oh, wow, zach bumped into me"

so what? he's just a person, that is pathetic hero worship

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 20, 2002

Quote: from abstractmentality on 9:03 pm on July 19, 2002
i must say that i do love rage as well. a friend of mine (killingstars on the board) says that Zach bumped into her at a concert she was at in the crowd while he was dancing. this was after the band broke up. kinda cool.


"oh, wow, zach bumped into me"

so what? he's just a person, that is pathetic hero worship

so basically what you are saying is that if you ran into any member, of any group that you listen to on a regular basis, that you wouldnt think that to be, in my words, "kinda cool?" i never said anything that remotley came close to "pathetic hero worship." i only said that it was kinda cool. i would think the same if i were to bumo into you somewhere. "wow, thats pretty cool, that was capitalist imperial." but does that mean that i am worshipping you? no.

(Edited by abstractmentality at 7:34 pm on July 20, 2002)

[Guest]

The true leaders of societies are societies. People too weak to stand as individuals, so the make laws that control all aspects of life. Everyone demands a part in it so we get a buch of moronic laws. Not because corporations do it, they could give a shit about weak minded people (exept when they try to control individuals). A corporations has no motive exept profit, only second-handers give enough thought to "society" as to control how they live.

[Guest]

I didn't mean true leadersw as in rightful leaders, only that the mass is the largest force calling shots on earth.

[Capitalist Imperial]

RATM has good music, but their lyrics suck

[Alejandro C]

The music of Rage doesn't matter without the lyrics. How can you like the music and not the lyrics. They are inevitably connected. How do you think songs are written. Do you think Zach goes into one room, writes the words while the other three are in the other room writing the song! Then they just throw them together? The greatest thing about rage is that the music reflects the lyrics, they are one. Thats one thing that you consistantly seem to not get Capitalist. Things are connected that you might not see if you only take three seconds to look at. For example do you really think that politics has nothing to do with education. In case you didn't know public schools are funded through the state, therefore their budget is set by politicians. It still all comes down to money. The schools get different programs through money allocated by politicians, who are elected almost solely based on the funds they have available for campaigning, which are without a doubt provided in large part by corporations. I could get into it a lot further but i'll let you think about it more instead. Try thinking about it with an open mind though, it will apear alot more clear.

When the doors of perception are cleasned, everything will apear as it is infinite. (connected) - Blake

[Guest]

The only reason politics has anything to do with education is because we have a socialist, not capitalist, counrty here in the USA.

[abstractmentality]

Quote: from Guest on 12:15 pm on July 25, 2002
The only reason politics has anything to do with education is because we have a socialist, not capitalist, counrty here in the USA.

i would NOT go so far as to say that it is socialist. it has some aspects of it, but not much.

[Stormin Norman]

K-12 is completely state owned and operated. What is your definition of socialism?

[abstractmentality]

as i said, it has aspects of it. would you call the united states socialst?

[Guest]

Nobody can make a profit without paying everyone else, unless they break the laws made by our society through our government. The government is also the intermediate between taking from what is produced by individuals and sharing it with the whole. I call it socialism, not capitalism.