Breaking Point? - What exact conditions would cause the cris

[marxistdisciple]

From the Marixist encyclopedia the second variant for historic crisis of capitalism;

"The concentration of capital is the historical tendency for capital to be gravitate into fewer and fewer hands, or as the saying goes — “the rich get richer and the poor get poorer”.

Left to itself, this process would bring about a situation where a handful of immensely rich capitalists would find themselves contronted by a vast mass of proletarians with nothing in between. Consequently, capitalists governments have long had “anti-trust” laws to protect capitalism from itself. Likewise, the US, Japan and Europe use tariffs and subsidies to protect small farmers even though cheaper food could be imported from overseas."

In the current situation, the huge divide exists between western nations and underdeveloped countries. At what point could or will the breaking point occur? What conditions would need to be met? Was September 11th an initial warning to this element? And if so, are the new American laws and powers a natural protection for western imperialism? Much is also said on this aspect, as in lenin's 5th condition of historic crisis, Imperialism. Are both these conditions imminent, or at least starting to occur already?

Sorry if I made mistakes in this, I'm still learning, ask if you need me to clarify.

[Mazdak]

the breaking point... probably when the united states uses "war on terror" to try to take over the world by eliminating anyone who questions its authority. Not everyone is too happy about it. It already started in the Philippines and Iraq and N. Korea are on the list too. I fear Cuba might not survive this if anything happens to castro.

VIVA FIDEL!!

[marxistdisciple]

Do you a think a point will occur when the Imperialism becomes so blindling obvious that even tabloid newspapers are complaining? Or will get to the point first where america is so powerful anyone who speaks out is crushed? (Or arrested for being a 'terrorist'?)

[Mazdak]

Yes, the US always uses "freedom of speech" to make itself sounds great but in truth, it is a boldface lie. Anything the government doesnt agree wiht that you say means you are labelled a terrorist. It has always been that way here. Freedom of speech is a lie to get people to think they are living in a great nation.

[marxistdisciple]

Doesn't it say something in the first ammendment about congress not being able to destory due process as well? (As in the patriot act)

[marxistdisciple]

Now they spy on each other too to make sure any 'suspicious' activity is reported. Wanna sign up? See my other thread.

[Nateddi]

Corporate globalization hasn't even started yet. Imperialism, the final stage of capitalism has modernly only lifted off less than 10 years ago.

[marxistdisciple]

Not started? How can there already be a movement against it then? We are certainly steping into the ultimate step of Imperialism - Unquestionable political power. Most everyone can see that these wars will be wrong, but America will still be allowed to do it. That seems pretty scary imperialism to me.....and even if it's not as bad as it feels, Bush is a great catalyst for it.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:03 pm on July 17, 2002
the breaking point... probably when the united states uses "war on terror" to try to take over the world by eliminating anyone who questions its authority. Not everyone is too happy about it. It already started in the Philippines and Iraq and N. Korea are on the list too. I fear Cuba might not survive this if anything happens to castro.

VIVA FIDEL!!


Don't u think u are proposing a "slippery slope" fallacy?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Mazdak on 10:18 pm on July 17, 2002
Yes, the US always uses "freedom of speech" to make itself sounds great but in truth, it is a boldface lie. Anything the government doesnt agree wiht that you say means you are labelled a terrorist. It has always been that way here. Freedom of speech is a lie to get people to think they are living in a great nation.


How so? You can say anything in the US, short of direct threats, without fear of recourse. How is the 1st amendmment right a lie?

[marxistdisciple]

You mean it doesn't apply when the government tries to stop papers printing articles agaianst the war effort?
Or is there a clause...hmmm

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Nope it says they shouldn't stop the press....maybe the prez got mixed up? Wouldn't surprise me...he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. Or maybe the government just gave up on the bill of rights? I mean it was written an awful long time ago.... does it even apply anymore?

[marxistdisciple]

They also violated the 6th amendment by arresting the "terrorist" US citizan without evidence, and holding hundreds of asians without charge on September 11th.

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

[marxistdisciple]

One more; here's the 8th

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

The bit about cruel punishments....wasn't what they were being trained/advised to do in the COA??

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 9:13 pm on July 18, 2002
You mean it doesn't apply when the government tries to stop papers printing articles agaianst the war effort?
Or is there a clause...hmmm

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Nope it says they shouldn't stop the press....maybe the prez got mixed up? Wouldn't surprise me...he's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. Or maybe the government just gave up on the bill of rights? I mean it was written an awful long time ago.... does it even apply anymore?




Well, I've seen countless articles questioning or flat out criticizing the war effort, from american media sources.

The government has not attempted to block these stories.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 9:16 pm on July 18, 2002
They also violated the 6th amendment by arresting the "terrorist" US citizan without evidence, and holding hundreds of asians without charge on September 11th.

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."




Please provide a more detailed description of this supposed innocent citizen being arrested situation and cite a source if you can.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 9:17 pm on July 18, 2002
One more; here's the 8th

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

The bit about cruel punishments....wasn't what they were being trained/advised to do in the COA??


That had nothing to do with US citizens.

[RAM]

Maybe lots of acountign erooes on the world's biggest comapnies at once.= shars crash stoick market crashes ahhh money panic anarchy no money revolution communism?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from RAM on 10:13 pm on July 18, 2002
Maybe lots of acountign erooes on the world's biggest comapnies at once.= shars crash stoick market crashes ahhh money panic anarchy no money revolution communism?

No, the market has actually been quite cool and collected in the face of these exceptions. Adjustments will be made with regard to regulation and accountability, and this, as all things, shall pass.

[marxistdisciple]

There was widespread news stories regarding the arrest of over 100 people based purely on their race on September 11th. I can dig an article out if you want. I forgetthe same of the 'terrorist' US Citizan, it was a month or so ago, he was suspected of being linked to Al quida, but no evidene had to be put forward to this nature.
CI is right, the market is picking up, but not without severe damage. Because the stock market bears no relation to actual company production/consumption success, these things will carry on happening.

[Capitalist Imperial]

compant production and success is very correlated to the market amongst truely savvy and experienced investors.

[marxistdisciple]

Investors are like sheep - when a leader gets scared they all follow his heels, running away from the companies they are supposed to be helping.

[Blackberry]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 11:35 pm on July 17, 2002
Now they spy on each other too to make sure any 'suspicious' activity is reported. Wanna sign up? See my other thread.


Why not sign up? If I was living in America, I would.

You will be able to 'look for suspicious activity', but you would really be working around, helping leftists.

If you get caught, you would just say that you were 'on to them' (although you would definately try not to get into this situation).

[marxistdisciple]

I think you meant my other thread, but if I was living in America I would sign up, and then spam their telephone line with calls like, "my neighbour has a mustache like hitler, i think he's a terroist." and "I saw the guy who lives accross the street telling his kids that he doesn't like the war on terrorism, he must be assimilated!"

Unfortunately, I like in the UK and we haven't quite that nasty in Neighbourhood Watch schemes as of yet. But remember, the terorrists could be anywhere, on your street, in your kids school, or in your apartment block. They are the omnipresent ones, like only god they infest every town with their evil satanism! Be vigilent, spies are in your midst.