pigs

[Hattori Hanzo]

most american children are garaunteed good jobs from birth, while in many other countries the best job you can get is work in a sweat shop or on a farm at below minimum wage! and that's the lucky ones! one, day she will rise...

"Maria. she's eternally here. her time is near.
to pull away at the mask!"- RATM

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 7:43 pm on July 16, 2002
most american children are garaunteed good jobs from birth, while in many other countries the best job you can get is work in a sweat shop or on a farm at below minimum wage! and that's the lucky ones! one, day she will rise...

"Maria. she's eternally here. her time is near.
to pull away at the mask!"- RATM

"Most american children are guaranteed a good job at birth..."

LOL, you are obviously not from here. Nothing is guaranteed in the USA. You have to work for it. Don't try and minimize the hard work of Americans. Everything we have we earned.

"while in many other countries the best job you can get is work in a sweat shop or on a farm at below minimum wage!"

and, as with all of the worlds problems, it is of course the fault of the big, bad USA

[Brian]

I'm Canadian so I have no comment on this really.

(Edited by Brian at 11:50 pm on Aug. 6, 2002)

[RGacky3]

Hattori Hanzo you make it seam like the U$ is a successfull cappitalist nation, which is for the most part false, still the U$ is mostly proletarian and still the Rich exploit the poor, this will always be as long as cappitalism lasts in the U$A

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Brian on 8:28 pm on July 16, 2002
Look at me,I'm American and I dropped out of College and I'm a bum.

Not every American has a great job.


And look, the great thing is, it was his choice! Not the states.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 8:29 pm on July 16, 2002
Hattori Hanzo you make it seam like the U$ is a successfull cappitalist nation, which is for the most part false, still the U$ is mostly proletarian and still the Rich exploit the poor, this will always be as long as cappitalism lasts in the U$A


The "workers" have the worlds best standard of living in their class. We can do or be anything we want to be. There are no barriers to owning the means of production or investing in the market. We are hardly "exploited". We have ultimate freedom and choice as to how "exploited we are".

What is your logic, gacky?

[Brian]

I live off of mom!

[Hattori Hanzo]

Hattori Hanzo



Guerrillero


most american children are garaunteed good jobs from birth, while in many other countries the best job
you can get is work in a sweat shop or on a farm at below minimum wage! and that's the lucky ones!
one, day she will rise...

"Maria. she's eternally here. her time is near.
to pull away at the mask!"- RATM

-----
"You will die with the fist clenched and the jaw tense, in perfect demonstration of hate and combat,
because you are not a symbol (something inanimate taken as an example), you are an authentic
member of a society which is crumbling: the spirit of the beehive speaks thorugh your mouth and
moves in your actions..." "...And I see, as if an enormous tiredness shoots down my recent exhalation,
how I die as a sacrifice to the truly standrdizing revolution of wills, pronouncing the exemplary mea
culpa. And I feel my nostrils dilated, tasting the acrid smell of gunpowder and of blood, of dead enemy;
now my body contorts, ready for the fight, and I prepare my being as if it were a sacred place so that
in it the bestial howling of the triumphant proletariat can resonate with new vibrations and new
hopes."-Ernesto "Che" Guevera



Total Posts: 254 | Joined April 2002 | Posted on: 7:43 pm on July 16, 2002 | IP

Capitalist Imperial







Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 7:43 pm on July 16, 2002
most american children are garaunteed good jobs from birth, while in many other countries the best job you can get is work in a
sweat shop or on a farm at below minimum wage! and that's the lucky ones! one, day she will rise...

"Maria. she's eternally here. her time is near.
to pull away at the mask!"- RATM




"Most american children are guaranteed a good job at birth..."

"LOL, you are obviously not from here. Nothing is guaranteed in the USA. You have to work for it.
Don't try and minimize the hard work of Americans. Everything we have we earned."

yes, but you work much less for much more

while in many other countries the best job you can get is work in a sweat shop or on a farm at below
minimum wage!"

" and, as with all of the worlds problems, it is of course the fault of the big, bad USA "

yes! they make your shoes! and the majority of the money made from making those shoes goes to some wealthy american ceo! and if the country's government protests, then in comes the CIA

[Capitalist Imperial]

The CIA is now conducting "sweatshop interdiction"?

LOL, you've lost all credibility.

[Hattori Hanzo]

for an american it is easy to get a job
"And look, the great thing is, it was his choice! Not the states. "
this is not about foriegn governments, it's about american economic rape!

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:47 pm on July 16, 2002
The CIA is now conducting "sweatshop interdiction"?

LOL, you've lost all credibility.


the cia works to mold countries so that they are suitable for american bussinesses to exploit the people

[Hattori Hanzo]

CI, you need to realize the need of nationalizing bussinesses everywhere and yet opening borders (like the US)!

[Capitalist Imperial]

The CIA's job is not to create environments conducive to commerce. The american business sector does that just fine on its own.

[Hattori Hanzo]

the us government has few faults, but those faults are fatal! lobbying, soft money=corruption
CIA=world's largest terrorist group

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:51 pm on July 16, 2002
The CIA's job is not to create environments conducive to commerce. The american business sector does that just fine on its own.


well, then they must be confused about what their "job" is!

[Brian]

I smell Propaganda, and it smells Communist.

[Hattori Hanzo]

the CIA conducts operations across the globe that fall under the US army definition of terrorism. but America seems to think that terrorism only applies to the non-americans...

[Hattori Hanzo]

no. this may smell red, but it is completly truthful and factual!

[Capitalist Imperial]

The CIA conducts a number of clandestine operations, always in the interest of the American people

[Brian]

Lies! Lies! Lies! You lie to much Hanzo

(Edited by Brian at 3:01 pm on July 16, 2002)

[Hattori Hanzo]

i think the CIA should act in the intrest of all people everywhere, otherwise it's shit and we can throw out the poem on the Statue Of Liberty

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from Brian on 8:58 pm on July 16, 2002
Lies! Lies! Lies! You lie to mcuh Hanzo

(Edited by Brian at 3:00 pm on July 16, 2002)

I do not
read Noam Chomsky's 9-11

[Brian]

Keep lieing and read your Communist books.

[Hattori Hanzo]

do you have any responses other than insults?

[Hattori Hanzo]

they will rise

[Brian]

Communism will stay under my shoe.

[Moskitto]

The CIA conducts a number of clandestine operations, always in the interest of the American people

Sounds like the 14 words if you ask me.

[IzmSchism]

Hattori, why do you think it is the US that are the dominating ones, and not the tribesmen from Papua New Guinea?

I am not saying I agree with the blatant exploitation of people and land in other countries for the profit of another individual or state, BUT, and as history has proven with the natural evolution of technology, such as the improvement of agricultural machinery and weapons, certain states, or nations have risen to power faster and have been able to dominate, not weaker or simpler states, or clans, just different leaning ones. To get to the point, I think this is just a natural unfolding of things, it blows that people are being used, but I think you will find the same things akin to people here in the US, you make it sound so dreamy....plus this post wasn't well postulated, way too broad.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 11:08 pm on July 16, 2002

The CIA conducts a number of clandestine operations, always in the interest of the American people

Sounds like the 14 words if you ask me.


What are the 14 words?

[Moskitto]

Something which I cannot repeat as it is liable to result in my total emotional breakdown.

Basically, An anti-14 words 14 Words has been desided as "We must secure the existence of all humans and a future that celebrates diversity"

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 12:08 am on July 17, 2002
Something which I cannot repeat as it is liable to result in my total emotional breakdown.

Basically, An anti-14 words 14 Words has been desided as "We must secure the existence of all humans and a future that celebrates diversity"

I'm intrigued.

Where can I find a copy of these 14 words?

[Moskitto]

right wing websites mainly.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from IzmSchism on 11:41 pm on July 16, 2002
Hattori, why do you think it is the US that are the dominating ones, and not the tribesmen from Papua New Guinea?

"I am not saying I agree with the blatant exploitation of people and land in other countries for the profit of another individual or state, BUT, and as history has proven with the natural evolution of technology, such as the improvement of agricultural machinery and weapons, certain states, or nations have risen to power faster and have been able to dominate, not weaker or simpler states, or clans, just different leaning ones. To get to the point, I think this is just a natural unfolding of things, it blows that people are being used, but I think you will find the same things akin to people here in the US, you make it sound so dreamy....plus this post wasn't well postulated, way too broad."



yes, i agree that one society may advance above another, however that is not groungs for retarding the other society's ability any more than is natural

[Hattori Hanzo]

it's right outside the door, Now Testify!

[marxistdisciple]

Hanzo, you forget that business is completely detached from ethics. That's how people justify it. It wan't American's that created those conditions, it was "just business." I'd like to find out these 14 words. Strange weird little capitalist men usually think money, this inanimate thing, that rich people love so much...somehow represents things realistically. As long as people keep thinking that, there will be inquality in the world.

To make it reallly simple for everyone. Why is socialism somehow bad? Surely, if you are not a scoailist, you must be ANTI-social?
If you are the opposite of a liberal, you are an opressor?
If we argue about the semantics, the very definition of those words implies positivity. Heres some more:

con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.

You get any positive connotations from that?

On the other hand;

lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.

1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

I don't usually like to argue semantically....but I always get confused when people use the word 'liberal' as an insulting term. Obviously people don't understand what it means.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 8:22 pm on July 17, 2002
Hanzo, you forget that business is completely detached from ethics. That's how people justify it. It wan't American's that created those conditions, it was "just business." I'd like to find out these 14 words. Strange weird little capitalist men usually think money, this inanimate thing, that rich people love so much...somehow represents things realistically. As long as people keep thinking that, there will be inquality in the world.

To make it reallly simple for everyone. Why is socialism somehow bad? Surely, if you are not a scoailist, you must be ANTI-social?
If you are the opposite of a liberal, you are an opressor?
If we argue about the semantics, the very definition of those words implies positivity. Heres some more:

con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.
1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.

You get any positive connotations from that?

On the other hand;

lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.

1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

I don't usually like to argue semantically....but I always get confused when people use the word 'liberal' as an insulting term. Obviously people don't understand what it means.



nothing can be seperate frome ethics
are you accusing me of being non-socilist?

[Hattori Hanzo]

hello?

[marxistdisciple]

No, no I am trying to make you see it from a "business" point of view. I am a socialist too, and I can see you are, I don't put down people for no reason.

When you completely embrace business and it's detachment from ethics, only then can you become a true capitalist!

That's how they justify it to themselves I'm sure. That's why capitalists say, "Shell and Chevron didn't destroy nigerian people, they strengthened the economy" (what has the economy got to do with people dying?)
They also usually say that people that work in sweatshops out of choice. (they choose life over death, some choice)

These companies have huge power, but they only use it for their own gains. Sometimes, coincidently, some other people might gain on the way, but only if it suits the company. That's how the US works. People don't gain directly from the US policies. They just gain if the political agenda happens to swing their way.

In short, the US bring good to themselves. If somebody has something the US wants, they are treated very well. If they have opinions the US greatly detests they will be destroyed. In essence, the US controls and decides the worlds ethics, it decides what politics are "right" and which are "wrong." None of this has any sembelence of relation to fact or fiction, ethics or morality. What the US believes=right, what other people think=wrong. It really isn't any more complicated than that. It's just business. And it works for them!

I don't think anyone can give me one example where the US has admitted defeat and bowed to the opinion of most of the rest of the world. It has utter and unrelentless arrogance. That is very powerful. It's like the old saying, power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Hattori Hanzo]

i agree, but what are you trying to say in relation to the subject?

[marxistdisciple]

I think I lost track there lol (tend to do that)
As far as relating that back to the actual subject...I was going to put forward that the US doesn't have any moral grounds for hurting other countries. Of course it is completely immoral.

What I am saying is that they detach morals from it completely. This is necessary to let business take it's natural logical course. It makes good business sense....it is not right, but business isn't a person, it doesn't have morals. That is the biggest flaw of the system. Business is a great unweildy power house that crushes anything beneath it. The small cog wheels inside (the people) don't even notice what they are doing most of the time. The guys at the top are the least ethical of all, that's why their businesses do so well.

(CEO thinking) "Profits are doing well, but to get a better place in the stock market we must make more profits for our shareholders. Yes, profit is good. Therefore, to make more profit, we must cut production costs. How shall we do that best? ahhh export production to countries with cheap labour! Then we can remove the huge wage bills in America which are the biggest expense." *CEO sees dollar signs when he realises he can sell a product that cost $5 to make for $100*

What I am trying to say is that in this scenario, ethics does not touch the mind of the business man. That would just damage profits. (he wouldn't make as much money if he thought about that) They do it to make more money in short, that is the idea of business right?

What do the businesses actually do with all these profits? They can't even spend them, they just get bigger. That's the entire goal.

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 9:11 pm on July 17, 2002
I think I lost track there lol (tend to do that)
As far as relating that back to the actual subject...I was going to put forward that the US doesn't have any moral grounds for hurting other countries. Of course it is completely immoral.

What I am saying is that they detach morals from it completely. This is necessary to let business take it's natural logical course. It makes good business sense....it is not right, but business isn't a person, it doesn't have morals. That is the biggest flaw of the system. Business is a great unweildy power house that crushes anything beneath it. The small cog wheels inside (the people) don't even notice what they are doing most of the time. The guys at the top are the least ethical of all, that's why their businesses do so well.

(CEO thinking) "Profits are doing well, but to get a better place in the stock market we must make more profits for our shareholders. Yes, profit is good. Therefore, to make more profit, we must cut production costs. How shall we do that best? ahhh export production to countries with cheap labour! Then we can remove the huge wage bills in America which are the biggest expense." *CEO sees dollar signs when he realises he can sell a product that cost $5 to make for $100*

What I am trying to say is that in this scenario, ethics does not touch the mind of the business man. That would just damage profits. (he wouldn't make as much money if he thought about that) They do it to make more money in short, that is the idea of business right?

What do the businesses actually do with all these profits? They can't even spend them, they just get bigger. That's the entire goal.

EXACTLY! THAT"S THE PROBLEM!

[Hattori Hanzo]

am i victorious?

[Hattori Hanzo]

i wait

[Hattori Hanzo]

I am a sub-commandante!

[Hattori Hanzo]

mabey not...

[Hattori Hanzo]

i am!

[Mazdak]

Congratulations- an entire page of HH posts. All made in one day..

[marxistdisciple]

LOL Hanzo you would be victorious if I was disagreeing with you :) I was just trying to highlight the exact nature, and kinda missed the plot. But I'll let you win if you want, even tho we agree :)

[ID2002]

The main reason why America has the $$$$$ is that the US STOCK MARKET IS FULL OF FRAUD ARTISTS...REALLY GOOD ONES AT THAT! Fraud is driving your economy and so is greed.


(Edited by ID2002 at 1:11 am on July 18, 2002)

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 11:26 pm on July 17, 2002
LOL Hanzo you would be victorious if I was disagreeing with you :) I was just trying to highlight the exact nature, and kinda missed the plot. But I'll let you win if you want, even tho we agree :)




not vs. you, vs. CI or AK