I'll take all you cappie bastards on at once! - challenge me

[Smoking Frog II]

We'll have a debate or an argument or whatever you want, so just come on!
Anyone, feel free to argue for/against capitalism.
Argue, Fascist Pigs
-------------------------
Support the Confederates,
El Frog. :P

[Stormin Norman]

I accept your challenge. You can set the terms and decide the topic.

[Smoking Frog II]

Okay then.
At least one of ya has da guts.
We'll talk socialism vs capitalism.
----------
Anyone can post cuz it's a free board. [in theory]
You start, pigman

[Stormin Norman]

No, my friend, you issued to challenge. Why don't you start running your mouth? I will call you on it later.

[Smoking Frog II]

Okay then "friend".
1. Is it better to have one person ruling a country
or a body of EQUAL people. And dont say that bush has a comitee. They aren't equal. Gotta go now. Talk at 1.15

[Stormin Norman]

So you support a dictatorship or an oligarchy. Unless by 'body of equal people' you mean a democracy whose citizens have equal rights under the law and vote on crucial decisions and appoint elected officials, then I would have to take issue with everything you have said.
I don't know if it will do any good debating the issue with someone, like yourself, who has no honest intention of listening to the other side of the argument. I will try anyway.
When one person has absolute power over the system of government, the rules for action become arbitrary. Directives can then be issued at the whim of the dictator with no oversight. Anyone should be able to see the problem with that system of rule because it is more or less devoid of law. Terrorism and oppression are seen as the most effective way to keep the 'mindless masses' under control. And control is the purpose of this type of government. Dictators typically call huge assemblies so that they can line up 'their' people in geometric formations and view them from their pedestals on high vantagepoints.
Being someone who values the 'natural law' proposed by John Locke, I approve of government as long as it is fulfilling its original purpose. The purpose for a government allows for the enforcement of contracts and just laws, and the protection of the people who implicitly choose to abide by the code provide by this sort of government. This is an antiquated idea, which was improved on by the framers of the Constitution of the U.S.. They found that government typically degraded to the sort of murderous thieves that you would support. Therefore, they propose a three pronged system to keep balance and prevent one branch from a wrongful hijacking of the political system. The men who created this system were better versed in the history and language of government than someone like youself. I will trust their wisdom before I believe a word of your rantings.
Would you truly want to live in fear for your life?
You didn't give me much to work with. Judging from your hurried approach to presenting the question I will save my breath and give you a chance to answer. However, I highly doubt I will be getting response. My challenge to you is for you to surprise me and give me a thought out intelligible response.



(Edited by Stormin Norman at 11:36 pm on July 11, 2002)

[Smoking Frog II]

When did I say that I favoured dictatorship? I'm sorry if I implied it [which i strongly doubt, but i was short in time. I am not a Stalinist or in anyways extreme.
Also, don't attempt to patronize me. I was brainwashed because I was brought up in England, so do not forget that I am not being exceptionly biased.
Let me say that I have no objections towards democracy EXCEPT when the council is unequal.
I have one problem with your US government.
The Government is too extensive in class [i.e. a too complex hierarchy.] A simpler system would be ample, if not, more efficient.
Whilst on the subject of the US Gov, I would like to critisize some policies. Firstly, The trade sanctions. Would you kindly tell me why these exist.
I see a problem with isolating Communism. Now that the Soviet Union has been crushed, and According to bush, all forms of communism have officially been dead for ten years. What have Cuba done to the US?
leave out the missile crisis because it was a Soviet Union manouvre, plus, it was justified because of the Turkish missile base.

I "like" your name a lot. What else would you like to talk about now then?

In my own language, Thou arte a bastarde

[Guest]

Am I supposed to be impressed with your claim to take on all cappies? I take on all commies in multiple threads every day. There are like, 4 or 5 legitimate pro capitalists on this sight, the dozens of others are all commies, socialisats, or supposed anarchists.

I'm not impressed.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Oh, that "guest"post was me.

[Stormin Norman]

I must eat my words. You did reply. Congratulations.
So you still think monarchies a good idea. Monarchies of the past have been dictatorships. The false monarch you are living under today hardly counts as a viable form of government. Your royalty only exist to appease the publics insatiable appetite for gossip, to give the tabloid press something to write about. As an American I find it hard to take any of them seriously.
In fact, England saw the benefit of democratic rule after we won our revolution, set up a centralized government, and proved our abiility to produce. This is why most of England's power was shifted to the Parliament.
You ask me about sanctions. I can only say that as a economic leader and a supporter of freedom, we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. This might not always be the wise choice, as it might come back to harm us later. Tell me, why should we trade with governments which are so opposed to our system of rule? We shouldn't. If these countries want to establish friendly relations with the United States, we have provided them with a road map which will help them in there task. For instance, when Castro is removed and democratic rule is implemented the embargo will be lifted. If these nations have a perfect means of providing for their people, how can you then point the finger at the U.S. for their failure? This is ridiculous. The U.S. operates without the benefit of these low producing nations , yet they claim not to be able to produce because we will not give them the chance. Whose economic system is better then?
You also sighted class seperation as a criticism of the U.S.. Since you don't live here I will tell you that no one living within our borders is subject to any sort of ascribed status. You can achieve as much or as little as you choose. At least in this country that is the reason for the existence of classes. Where as, in socialist nations this segregation based on class is done by edict. Again I ask you which is the better system?

[Smoking Frog II]

Keep ya asshole out of this, Mr. Guest.
My Homeland founded your nation, so don't give me any "GB is shit".
Monarchy is not necessarily [can't spell] dictatorship.
It is autocracy as much, if not more.
Also, your presidency is similar to the current monarchy.
neither make tactical or otherwise decisions, whilst your prez bush is sooo stupid, he has people telling him what to do. I will, however point out that the role of president should be at a standard of making his own decisions.
"our" revolution? are there no confederates???
Insulting the monarchy is not very clever, wankee.
An eye for an eye.
[aN economic leader.]
It isn't countries apposed to your rule.
It is countries whose rule you appose.
So then, once Castro goes, are you going to 'liberate' cuba, or take over.
I believe that you already have airbases.
the countries are unable to produce agriculturally, because YOU overbear them with the neutron bomb.

It is not a question of having a better system, is it?
Seeing as we all own the world, why not work together as a plant to achieve a common goal, creating harmony.
The US should know that you can't hear the music of the spheres by simply being the best.
i critisized the government class. i.e. that it is too hierarchal. You don't need secondary military generals and all that stuff.
of course, there is no question of class in the US. They aren't any poor people.
I won't talk for bout 7 weeks.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Smoking Frog II on 2:00 pm on July 17, 2002
Keep ya asshole out of this, Mr. Guest.
My Homeland founded your nation, so don't give me any "GB is shit".
Monarchy is not necessarily [can't spell] dictatorship.
It is autocracy as much, if not more.
Also, your presidency is similar to the current monarchy.
neither make tactical or otherwise decisions, whilst your prez bush is sooo stupid, he has people telling him what to do. I will, however point out that the role of president should be at a standard of making his own decisions.
"our" revolution? are there no confederates???
Insulting the monarchy is not very clever, wankee.
An eye for an eye.
[aN economic leader.]
It isn't countries apposed to your rule.
It is countries whose rule you appose.
So then, once Castro goes, are you going to 'liberate' cuba, or take over.
I believe that you already have airbases.
the countries are unable to produce agriculturally, because YOU overbear them with the neutron bomb.

It is not a question of having a better system, is it?
Seeing as we all own the world, why not work together as a plant to achieve a common goal, creating harmony.
The US should know that you can't hear the music of the spheres by simply being the best.
i critisized the government class. i.e. that it is too hierarchal. You don't need secondary military generals and all that stuff.
of course, there is no question of class in the US. They aren't any poor people.
I won't talk for bout 7 weeks.


"My Homeland founded your nation, so don't give me any 'GB is shit'."

You mean your homeland got its ass kicked by american revolutionaries, and they founded this nation, against the will of your homeland.

"Also, your presidency is similar to the current monarchy.
neither make tactical or otherwise decisions, whilst your prez bush is sooo stupid, he has people telling him what to do."

The presidency has never been 1 man, it has always been an entire office and cabinet of advisors. Your man tony blair, however, is on our jock, so I wouldn't talk


"Insulting the monarchy is not very clever, wankee.
An eye for an eye.
[aN economic leader.]"

Shut up, you beef boiling, bad teeth having, queen bowing, sickly pasty skin having, weak empire losing limey brit. Screw the queen.

"So then, once Castro goes, are you going to 'liberate' cuba, or take over."

Yes

"I believe that you already have airbases.
the countries are unable to produce agriculturally, because YOU overbear them with the neutron bomb"

We do have airbases, but our nuclear defense program in its present state does not compromise agriculture


"It is not a question of having a better system, is it?
Seeing as we all own the world, why not work together as a plant to achieve a common goal, creating harmony.
The US should know that you can't hear the music of the spheres by simply being the best.
i critisized the government class. i.e. that it is too hierarchal. You don't need secondary military generals and all that stuff.
of course, there is no question of class in the US. They aren't any poor people.
I won't talk for bout 7 weeks."

Yeah, lets all hold hands and sing cumbayah.

DO you think that if the US ceased to exist, then all other nations would join hands and unite the world? How naive! Another powerful nation would just step up and fill the power vaccum.

[alphaq]

I think i'll jump in and say that the US is NOT a democracy, if anything it is a republic. It consists of legal representatives who make legislation on behalf (or they are supposed to atleast) of the general populace. Also, their accountability for their actions are very low - at worst they won't be reelected. In a true democracy, however, the populace has a direct say in legislation (thru referenda, etc) and elected officials can be recalled via popular vote. These conditions do not exist in the US on the federal level, which is why it is not a democracy. I will agree that the present US - republic style system is better than moncarchies, ditatorships, etc. However, it is not the best system possible. Also, may I ask why people hold the concept of "democracy" so highly when it comes to governmental rule, but are satisfied with an oligarchy when it comes to the workplace?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Actually, we are a group of republics that practice democracy.

At state and local levels, there are direct votes on referendums and propositions

[Hattori Hanzo]

it is a form of a republic which responds to the opinions of large domestic centers over small areas

[Red Revolution]

Oi Ci

I know why you have a probem or grudge against the monarachy, because its the one thing Canada has that the U$ will never have!

[Moskitto]

Screw the queen

Moskitto, A UK NATIONAL, Says.

THE QUEEN IS A PIECE OF SHIT

Also, Moskitto throws coins into bins.

Moskitto throws coins into bins

And carves graffiti on them

And carves graffiti on them

He does this all because

THE QUEEN IS A PIECE OF SHIT

Now I just have to wait till the police come round.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 10:35 pm on July 17, 2002
Oi Ci

I know why you have a probem or grudge against the monarachy, because its the one thing Canada has that the U$ will never have!


LOL, r u serious?

That is just another of many reasons we pity Canada.

[ID2002]

Canada will always be distant from US politics. We are a social democracy more or less. We are quite tollerant of other political ideologies. I am totally against the US taking over Cuba, and so is my country!

[alphaq]

There are direct votes and referenda in some states, not all (california comes to mind), and no state that I know of has recallability. Again, my point is that this republic is a good system, but not the best one possible.

[Red Revolution]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 12:44 am on July 18, 2002

Quote: from Red Revolution on 10:35 pm on July 17, 2002
Oi Ci

I know why you have a probem or grudge against the monarachy, because its the one thing Canada has that the U$ will never have!


LOL, r u serious?

That is just another of many reasons we pity Canada.


Un be known to you, yer just proved my point!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 9:49 pm on July 18, 2002

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 12:44 am on July 18, 2002

Quote: from Red Revolution on 10:35 pm on July 17, 2002
Oi Ci

I know why you have a probem or grudge against the monarachy, because its the one thing Canada has that the U$ will never have!


LOL, r u serious?

That is just another of many reasons we pity Canada.


Un be known to you, yer just proved my point!

What r u talking about?

[Red Revolution]

CI you are jelous thats why you said all that "thats why we pity them" rubbish. Even American's who visit London say they wish they had a monarchy like Canada

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 10:25 pm on July 18, 2002
CI you are jelous thats why you said all that "thats why we pity them" rubbish. Even American's who visit London say they wish they had a monarchy like Canada

LOL, thanks, I needed that, LOL,LMAO

Laughter, the best medicine.

[Ernesto Guevara]

Ill say it simply, Capitalism sucks.
Ill argue for it tomoro. Its 4.40am where im at.

[pastradamus]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial

"My Homeland founded your nation, so don't give me any 'GB is shit'."

You mean your homeland got its ass kicked by american revolutionaries, and they founded this nation, against the will of your homeland.


Hahaha! lmao! Ye guys gained independance from yourselves,ye didnt do anyhting spectacular or nothing.

& as far as the presidency goes,the only reason a president was put in place was to convince the people that there was still a form of king ruling the country.

U deny it,but u know its true....