Quitters

[nvm]

I ve met tons of people who used to be anarchists or communists but now have quit because they say that either communism does not work , or that they are mature enough now that they don't believe in fairy tales and that they are simply tired.
Do you think that alot of people quit believing in socialism - communism or anarchism after the age of lets say 25-30?
Because that's what i received in real life.
I see plenty of anarchist or communist students especialy when i lived in Greece( cuz Canada has virtualy no left current so i can say if people here quit) .So ya i see tons of anarchist and communist youth which dissapears after the age of 30.
What is your opinion ? If that really is true(and not something im imagining) why is it happening? Can we combat it?

[RedAnarchist]

Mainly, a lot of people just read the literature and don't really participate in action, and this can cause quite a shock when they actually get around to doing so. Others may just have do it out of rebellious feelings, whilst others may not have been convinced of their revolutionary leftist beliefs and have dropped them in favour of a career. Some may feel that revleftism is not right for them, whilst others know very little theory and are just joining in for fun.

[[email protected]]

''whilst others may not have been convinced of their revolutionary leftist beliefs and have dropped them in favour of a career''

I guess when you get older and may have an family you realize that you need somekind vast amount of money coming in, provided by a job they can reley on (which in fact is impossible) to supply their household.
For people with an (hihger) education it means they can get a higher payed job, wich eventually lead to a live controlled by getting a higher position in their career, as soon as you realise your current position sucks.
While being in positions like ''manager empty boxes' (tiltle granted by my dad to reflects the many useless manager positions,)
It would be hypocritical and very hard to keep your job to mentain your marxist believe, while in a being in a very capitalist position.

I guess you can say they were seduced to capitalism.

[Morpheus]

I don't know many people who fit this criteria. Perhaps its different where you live.

[Enragé]

Basically what you can see is a shift from people believing change can come from below to... either indifference or reformism (to at least achieve "something")

The left has been on the retreat since '68, so it's not surprising people turned away from it.

[InTheMatterOfBoots]

You see a lot of students abandoning their revolutionary credentials when they leave university and enter the class struggle (the work place). Here it is a lot harder to sustain a radical perspective towards society and the ideological pulls and controls are a lot stronger.

[rednordman]

I find this interesting and I have noticed the same thing myself, and believe it’s a big shame. In fact, it’s mainly been since I have left university that I have seen the real world for what it really is (mainly by getting exploited by greedy capitalists when working in tough manual jobs) living in the bourgeois democracy that is the UK. It’s only been after the age of 23 that I have started to become more and more conscious about leftist politics, and have started to realise that the concept of communism is not the evil that we are brought up (via schools and the media) to believe it is. Also I do not see why people have a tendency to forget about or give up on left wing beliefs if they have a job better than a non skilled job (I’ve seen people come from struggling backgrounds to get into what is considered decent occupations, only to totally turn their back on their roots and beliefs and become total chauvinistic self obsessed pricks).

[[email protected]]

I don't know many people who fit this criteria. Perhaps its different where you live.

It reflects to Leftish people who are 'forced' to sell their skills for particular reasons (financial, wellness kids) etc.) to others, then are influencenced by the wellfare of his/her situation, the capitalist worksituation, etc

[F9]

They may affected from the system that they live in and by the participation in it they may change mind because the anarchist/communist society that they formerly imagined would now attack them because they became part of capitalism.

Fuserg9:star:

[[email protected]]

They may affected from the system that they live in and by the participation in it they may change mind because the anarchist/communist society that they formerly imagined would now attack them because they became part of capitalism.

Fuserg9:star:

Can't argue with that

[The Douche]

I do think some people feel "burnt out" I know I have been there and have seen friends get there.

When my crew in the Socialist Party got shut down, and then our whole tendency got shut down I felt really discouraged and we kind of stopped being active for a while. And I got really tired of working with liberal groups where I was going to thier meetings every single week and being ignored every time I had something to say, but whenever they needed posters put up they came running to me and our group, or whenever they were having a protest all of a sudden they wanted all of us there, but they didn't want to listen to our ideas about the protest. They wanted to complain about the lack of young people (when they hushed the ideas of the 18 year old sitting at the table) they wanted to complain about the lack of "minorities" involved (when they poo pooed the ideas of one of my mexican friends at the meeting) they wanted to ***** about the lack of involvement by regular working class folks (but when I told them the speaker they were bringing in was going to speak at 3:00, before most of the working people in town got out of work I was told, "most of those people are unreachable anyways").

So yeah, I got burnt out for a while, but I came back, some of my friends didn't, and honestly, I can't blame them. They still hold the ideas, deep down, they just can't commit to them anymore.

[Holden Caulfield]

I don't know many people who fit this criteria. Perhaps its different where you live.

there is a very well known saying
'that if a man is not a communist at 20 he as no heart, if he is still a communist at 40 he has no brain'

so this pattern of thinking is wide spread,
it comes down when people think they have something to defend they will often become more reactionary, the one person with all the money will be less inclinded to share than the other 99 who dont if ya know what i mean,

[BIG BROTHER]

Well sadly enough I have an aunt, and an uncle who use to call themselves communist. But once they got older my aunt moved to the US and eventually she became a petty-bourgeois since she now owns a cleaning bussiness(she still doesn't make that much money) and my other uncle he pretty much fell for the religious thing that he felt very empty with out god and all that stuff.

So I would guess that ones you pass your youth, we become less idealist, then either our conditions around us make us accept capitalism, or people leave communism for religious reasons.

[Kronos]

If you merely "decide" to be a committed revolutionary, then you either have not experienced enough struggle to develop a sympathetic devotion to your own class, or you have, defected, and become an apathetic traitor.....or simply irrelevant.

The revolutionary spirit is not a "whim". It is an annealing process in which you are broken and then hardened through your struggle. When you no longer find yourself asking questions like "will communism work", but instead find yourself demanding out of sheer urgency as you reflect on your experiences "this will not work", then you are part of the struggle.

Communism is not something you pick up because it is "cool". It is not a "past time luxury" or hobby. It can never be a choice. Your commitment must occur because nothing else will work.

[BIG BROTHER]

A lot of people I think also just follow communism or Anarchism because they have romantic ideas about it, they don't have real ideological convictions and they think it will be very easy to bring a revolution and stuff. And when reality hits them and they see its going to be a lot harder they quit.

[Bear MacMillan]

A lot of people I think also just follow communism or Anarchism because they have romantic ideas about it, they don't have real ideological convictions and they think it will be very easy to bring a revolution and stuff. And when reality hits them and they see its going to be a lot harder they quit.

True, I know some people who call themselves "communists" or "anarchists" because they think it makes them sound cool and rebellious, but they still have largely bourgeois views on class struggle and economy and are dumbfounded when I try to talk to them about Marxism.

[hekmatista]

Personally, I've quit several times. Sometimes it was self-doubt, getting too subjectively wrought over my motives and bullshit psychopolitics. Sometimes it was a particular disillusionment with a particular trend of thought and action. Sometimes it was a "practical" (read opportunist) adjustment to raising a family and surviving as best as possible as a wage-slave. In the end though, life and history compel me to act against a system that wants to crush me; it's not altruism that motivates me, I just get fed up with a steady diet of shit and have to go back to my core beliefs and try to find an appropriate praxis.

[hekmatista]

Incidently, I'm 55 years old now, bankrupt, propertyless, and my kids are grown. One of them is a red, the other is a nihilist. I tried nihilism as a permanent life position; but I believe in life, not death; that's why I'm still a red.

[cenv]

Yeah, a lot of people quit as they grow older. Part of it probably has to do with the lack of a serious communist or anarchist movement... when you have right-wingers pointing out that no one's ever actually established a communist society on one hand, and the dogmatic, sectarian mess of a left on the other hand, things can seem pretty daunting.

As people get older, they have more responsibilities, so it's not surprising they decide that communism isn't worth their time any longer. However, most of the people who quit are probably people who either didn't have much to gain from communism in the first place or don't have the imagination to see how we can possibly do things differently and actually build a revolutionary movement.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

From talking to my ex girlfriends uncle (sister's practioner's former colleague.....) who used to be a socialist, he said the wife, kids and mortgage took a lot away from politics for him and that his main concern was looking after his family as opposed to fighting for the working class. I think the fragmented state of the left and belligerent anti-socialism which you find in quite a lot of places can be disheartening.

[Dhul Fiqar]

The dominant discourses in society actively undermine any independent or revolutionary thought. It is no surprise that a majority of revolutionaries eventually succumb to the immense pressure put upon them by not only government and their institutions (a relatively minor influence in the overall scheme of things) but also the people they love and depend on.

Social pressure is a powerful force and the urge to give up unpopular ideas in exchange for acceptance and a comfortable life is a strong one.

Fortunately, there are quite a few notable exceptions and in general I think the process tends to weed out those who are not truly committed to any cause but were simply following a fad or trying to fill a space in their lives.

--- G. H.

[Dhul Fiqar]

From talking to my ex girlfriends uncle (sister's practioner's former colleague.....) who used to be a socialist, he said the wife, kids and mortgage took a lot away from politics for him and that his main concern was looking after his family as opposed to fighting for the working class. I think the fragmented state of the left and belligerent anti-socialism which you find in quite a lot of places can be disheartening.

This is a very important point about how the current system undermines the incentive for dissent by essentially making the life quality of your beloved family dependent on the capitalist system under which you live. It's "submit or hurt the ones you love" in many cases and that is not a choice any person should be faced with.

--- G. H.

[RNK]

There's entirely too little self-criticism here.

I see lots of "people who do that must not have been real communists to begin with", and "they were seduced by capitalism".

[Schrödinger's Cat]

A large portion of the Leftist movement became disenfranchised in the 70s and early 80s: the fervor which marked the 60s had ended, conservatives took office all around the world, the Soviet Union went into a dismal decline, China turned into a corporate heaven. Thankfully now that we no longer have to be accused (humorously) of being Soviets, the movement has been growing - albeit steadily.

I would say sectarianism and the inability to form coalitions has much to do with why people quit.