Redeeming qualities of America?

[Pacifistic Liberty]

Lets face facts as many of you already know, America right now is a Imperialist, Capitalistic, society with poor leadership. Polluted with mass media cooperations who care more about money than about facts. Where banks have more power than the government. The list goes on. This isn't a new thing either throughout America past horrible atrocities have been committed under the slogan, Manifest Destiny, ect...
My question is this are there any redeeming qualities in America Culture, society, economics, politics or anything else i forgot?
I'm not trying to attack or defend America here I'm just looking for other points of views backed by facts and logical opinions.
Is America simply a cesspool of decadence and Poverty? Or is there a diamond in this rough called America?

[Marsella]

Jimi Hendrix.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think that the American people are, for the most part, good people.

Oh, and this:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/images/usa/alaska.jpg

[Unicorn]

Americans are less nationalist than Europeans because the US is a traditionally multiethnic society. That is one good thing. In Europe ethnic nationalism is common.

[Dust Bunnies]

I got a good thing, if your born into a rich family your set for life!

[mykittyhasaboner]

at least we can talk shit about their government and not be overtly imprisoned.

[Luís Henrique]

I remember a similar discussion I had on snopes.com. It was on the lines of "Oh, why do they hate us so much?"

I told some guy that Americans are a strange lot; they have Louis Armstrong and Walt Whitman, but they want us to love them for George Bush and Bill Gates.

Then someone accused me of "cultural elitism".

Luís Henrique

[BobKKKindle$]

Americans are less nationalist than Europeans because the US is a traditionally multiethnic society. That is one good thing. In Europe ethnic nationalism is common.

In my experience, Americans tend to be far more nationalist than Europeans. American nationalism is generally based on a set of national myths, especially the idea that America is a country with a unique destiny, derived from God ("we shall be as a city upon a hill") instead of a nationalism that is based on "blood" which has traditionally been most prevalent in Germany. In Europe it is rare to see people hang flags from the windows of their homes, and people are generally more willing to criticize the government, especially a decision to declare war, without fear of being seen as unpatriotic.

Many of the negative aspects of America mentioned by OP could also apply to other countries, as they are derived from the dynamics of Capitalism, not something that is specific to the American people.

[Morpheus]

I'm technically an American in that I was born in the US and have never left it, though I prefer to think of myself as a human being rather than as an American. Americans are extremely nationalist, but as bobkindles said its not ethnic nationalism. There are no redeeming qualities to "America" because "America" doesn't exist. Nations are imaginary communities that create the illusion that everyone living inside some arbitrary border (or with a certain ethnicity, etc.) share the same or similar interests. It thus ignores class divisions and helps create the illusion that class doesn't exist or is less important. Its a form of false consciousness that keeps workers loyal to our exploiters.

[More Fire for the People]

Hip hop, blues, jazz, r&b, Black Panthers, I Wor Kuen, Eugene V. Debs, IWW, MLK, Malcolm X, Kurt Vonnegut, etc., etc.

[Holden Caulfield]

I'm technically an American in that I was born in the US and have never left it, though I prefer to think of myself as a human being rather than as an American.

this is a valid point but i think all leftists do, so ergo a pointless point,

the best feature about america?
...
...
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the weather? also i do really really like Malcom X, he is a postive figure arisen from a decedant society and he reminds me of nietzsche, who incidentally he blames as one of the founders of nazism practically

[The Douche]

Hip hop, blues, jazz, r&b, Black Panthers, I Wor Kuen, Eugene V. Debs, IWW, MLK, Malcolm X, Kurt Vonnegut, etc., etc.

One of the first and most successful anti-colonial struggles. A long history of rebellion and firecely independent thought.

The Bonus Army
Whisky Rebellion
Boston Tea Party
Nat Turner
John Brown
Bacon's Rebellion
The Regulator Rebellion
Ethan Allen
Shay's Rebellion
Haymarket
1892 Homestead strike

[Colonello Buendia]

Scrubs, Friends, as I'm a Tiger said Hendrix, his rendition of star spangled banner, the Doors, Sacco and Vanzetti(though they're Italian like me) New York and Woodstock. Also I'm sort of a fan of baseball even though I hate corporate-ness of it

[Unicorn]

In my experience, Americans tend to be far more nationalist than Europeans. American nationalism is generally based on a set of national myths, especially the idea that America is a country with a unique destiny, derived from God ("we shall be as a city upon a hill") instead of a nationalism that is based on "blood" which has traditionally been most prevalent in Germany. In Europe it is rare to see people hang flags from the windows of their homes, and people are generally more willing to criticize the government, especially a decision to declare war, without fear of being seen as unpatriotic.

Many of the negative aspects of America mentioned by OP could also apply to other countries, as they are derived from the dynamics of Capitalism, not something that is specific to the American people.
Yeah but cultural nationalism is much less dangerous than ethnic nationalism which can lead to Fascism and racism.

[The Douche]

Yeah but cultural nationalism is much less dangerous than ethnic nationalism which can lead to Fascism and racism.

I assure you that fascism can very easily adapt to american nationalism, and there are people, especially on the religious right in America who are going a long way towards creating american fascism.

[non-vio-resist]

America, per se, or the U.S.A., to be more accurate, is an arbitrary line drawn around a land mass on the continent of North America South of another arbitrary line drawn called Canada. Within the U.S., we have a document called the Constitution written by a bunch of cavemen who enslaved Africans, but people's struggles have been able to use this document to win victories a la the women's movement, the civil rights movement, etc.
I guess when you ask are there any redeeming qualities about America, I would say that it is a land mass that means nothing to me and the people who first inhabited it from Europe who committed genocide against the Native Americans should have stayed in Europe. However, when asking about the 20th/21st century, I would say that savvy citizens have been able to effectively take legal action using the Constitution as a tool. I think that the Constitution should be used to prosecute war criminals like Bill Clinton and the Bush administration (Article VI; paragraph 2). Now, I'm no constitutionalist or nationalist, but I think if left movements like the civil rights movement can use it as a tool, legally, it should be utilized.
The redeeming qualities of Amerikkka: The overwhelming majority of it's citizens, who are far to the left of their government as almost every poll suggests. Freedom of speech is quite nice and it's practice in the U.S. is pretty unique in this country (although this rarely applies to the miniscule spectrum of popular thought in our "for the state" corporate media). Music and literature and U.S. left dissidents, eg, Noam Chomsky; Howard Zinn; Michael Albert; Lydia Sargent; Amy Goodman; Norman Finkelstein; Ward Churchill; Paul Street; et al, are some of the best around. There are also "progressive" art scenes throughout the country.
Unfortunately, the only Amerikkka many around the world know is one that is violent, corporatist, and downright hateful to anyone who is brown, black, or a woman due to the heinous war crimes committed year-after-year by the puppet corporate government that runs the pseudo-democracy. It's important for people to remember that Amerikkka's political elite (the overwhelming majority of those in power) and it's citizen's are completely separate entities: One is brutal and commits atrocities while the other feels responsible in many ways but hopeless.
While the U.S. embodies a foreign and domestic policy that thrives on free-market extremism and violent wars of agression, it's actually a pretty great place to live because of the beautiful people who inhabit the country. We only need to get these hopeless people behind revolutionary ideas, which is hard since they're so caught up in paying off their debt and putting food on the table, which is utterly hard these days due to rightist disaster capitalism policies.

[Sendo]

redeeming qualities of America or the US? For the US, virtually none, for the "American people," I assume we are working with the mainstream, traditional, majority power base of mostly european descended Anglophones populating most of the 48 states...there are redeming qualities, besides the massive ignorance, poor education, delusional nationalistic tendencies they have the basic human qualities of wanting to provide for their families and hesitant to go to war, unless severely prodded by chickenhawks. The culture tends to be multi-ethnic and can include many different currents and customs and it is possible to find your own social niche. They tend to be anti-fascist as a whole, and besides that stubborn one-third or less of Bushie die-hards, they don't flock to figureheads like Hitler or Mussolini. Yes there have been red scares and the like, but most people support higher wages, free health care, and other "pink" policies. The country has also produced many great writers and musicians and been a big part of several modern cultures and counter-cultures.

[BIG BROTHER]

I hate to be the ***** who has to say this, but once for all: America is a continent! not a fucken country!

[#FF0000]

Eugene V. Debs, MLK, Malcolm X, Kurt Vonnegut

People that make me glad to be a human being.

There's also the freedom of speech thing. Sure, it's neutered by corporate control of media and an overzealous police force busting up demonstrations, and of course certain post-9/11 policies, but in the everyday, the Government can't really overtly take action against someone for speaking.

[Sendo]

People that make me glad to be a human being.

There's also the freedom of speech thing. Sure, it's neutered by corporate control of media and an overzealous police force busting up demonstrations, and of course certain post-9/11 policies, but in the everyday, the Government can't really overtly take action against someone for speaking.

in all seriousness what first-world nation-states imprison people simply for speaking something? It might only be the US or perhaps the UK.

I think that free access to media is vital, but besides that, the US has clamped down on simple speech and organization. There have been US citizens sent to Gitmo; there have been benefactors of Palestinian organizations tried in court. Additionally, once outside the borders, anyone is open game: look at the bombing of al-Jazeera Iraq.

In a cost-benefit analysis it does make sense that the US doesn't bug everyone's rooms and arrest the simple majority who grumble about how rigged the system is. The US not being as effectively fascist as 1930s Third Reich is not a positive advantage, it is a sign of desperation in looking for positives when you point out of the non-existence of negatives. It says a lot about in how much we have to think about this topic's quesiton.

[#FF0000]

Holocaust denial is a crime in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Israel, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Romania and Switzerland. Other countries, such as Spain and Italy, only just recently decriminalized that.

Not to mention, of course, that some of these countries have outright banned certain symbols.

I'm certainly not supporting holocaust denial here. It's a ridiculous idea and easily refuted, but I take the stance that if one doesn't believe in free speech for those whose views are most revolting, then one doesn't really believe in free speech at all.



in all seriousness what first-world nation-states imprison people simply for speaking something? It might only be the US or perhaps the UK.

[Invader Zim]

Americans are less nationalist than Europeans because the US is a traditionally multiethnic society. That is one good thing. In Europe ethnic nationalism is common.

I'm not so sure. Being European I find the extent of US nationalism somewhat bizarre, its not something I really think is as wide spread as it used to be.

[Unicorn]

I'm not so sure. Being European I find the extent of US nationalism somewhat bizarre, its not something I really think is as wide spread as it used to be.
I estimate that about 20-40% of Finnish < 25 yo. men think that "black people don't belong in Finland" and "they should go back to Africa". The majority thinks that all immigrants who commit crimes should be deported.

Ethnic nationalism is a real problem in Europe and at least in Finland outrageous racism is socially accepted. >99% of Americans at least accept that the society is multiethnic and open racism is a fringe ideology.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

at least we can talk shit about their government and not be overtly imprisoned.
That only came about through years of popular struggle. So I guess the USA's one redeeming feature is years of popular struggle that cowed the government and capitalists into making some concessions.

That and Hendrix.

[Devrim]

Ethnic nationalism is a real problem in Europe and at least in Finland outrageous racism is socially accepted. >99% of Americans at least accept that the society is multiethnic and open racism is a fringe ideology.

There is a difference between racism, and nationalism. In my opinion the US is one of the most nationalist societies I have ever seen (up there with Turkey) as well as one of the most racist. They are different things though.

Devrim

[Devrim]

Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream is the best thing I have ever eaten.

I have been too the US twice, unfortunately only to Boston, and have enjoyed it both times. I am going next year, and I am really looking forward to it.

Devrim

[Unicorn]

There is a difference between racism, and nationalism. In my opinion the US is one of the most nationalist societies I have ever seen (up there with Turkey) as well as one of the most racist. They are different things though.
My point was that in the US ethnic nationalism is less common than in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism

How many people in Turkey think that e.g. ethnic Kurds or Afro-Turks can't be "real" Turks?

[non-vio-resist]

I hate to be the ***** who has to say this, but once for all: America is a continent! not a fucken country!
it's pretty common to refer to the U.S. as America. I guess you could say it's slang. I think it's safe to say the forum was started with this in mind. When one says "Americans" they're usually referring to U.S. citizens, as opposed to Canadians or Mexicans. But that's an excellent observation. Thanks for pointing this out for us;).

[Devrim]

How many people in Turkey think that e.g. ethnic Kurds or Afro-Turks can't be "real" Turks?

I am not sure what you mean by 'Afro-Turks', but all of the Turkish nationalists think that ethnic Kurds can be real Turks. Turkey's nationalism is in no way ethnic.


My point was that in the US ethnic nationalism is less common than in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism

But America is much more nationalist that most of Europe is. I think that most people would agree with that.

Also in my opinion it is much more racist. When I went there, I was quite shocked by the amount of racial division in US society (e.g. when you get out of the subway the blacks walk one way, and the whites walk another because the residential areas are divided very much upon racial lines). I would find this hard to imagine in Western Europe.

Devrim

[RedFlagComrade]

Americans are less nationalist than Europeans because the US is a traditionally multiethnic society. That is one good thing. In Europe ethnic nationalism is common.
The opposite is true-from an early age americans are brainwashed into a blindly unquestioning patriotism and superiority.

[Pirate Utopian]

It's where most of the musicgenres started.

[careyprice31]

"My question is this are there any redeeming qualities in America Culture, society, economics, politics or anything else i forgot?"


Harrison Ford?

[Unicorn]

The opposite is true-from an early age americans are brainwashed into a blindly unquestioning patriotism and superiority.
Yes but American nationalism is not völkisch unlike European nationalism.

[More Fire for the People]

Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream is the best thing I have ever eaten.

I have been too the US twice, unfortunately only to Boston, and have enjoyed it both times. I am going next year, and I am really looking forward to it.

Devrim
:w00t: one of our greatest cities.

[Devrim]

Not to Boston next year, but to SF.
Devrim

[Vanguard1917]

Many great things have come out of America - from stem cell research and the polio vaccine to the aeroplane and the space shuttle - which isn't suprising since it's the world's richest country with resources to invest.

[Zurdito]

redeeming qualities of the USA (as Josefrancisco says, "America" is NOT a country!!!) - I can think of one possible redeeming factor: the US proletariat. ;)

[black magick hustla]

I dont like this thread, because it is made from a nationalist premise "i.e. americans as a people suck because the american government has overtly agressive geopolitics"

paradoxically i think one of the worst american traits is the hippie anti-americanism.

Anyway america has a lot of great literature (faulkner, kerouac, pynchon, cormac mccarthy...)and great music. i love jazz bars.

and it has pretty terrible things like racist shits, anarcho-hippies, and "revolutionary" postmodernists like: http://www.michigancitizen.com/print_this_story.asp?smenu=77&sdetail=5818

my bowels hurt from reading that article.

[Luís Henrique]

It's where most of the musicgenres started.
Oh please. Most of the music genres you have heard about, perhaps?

Salsa
Samba
Merengue
Lambada
Frevo
Fandango
Marchinha
Marcha-rancho
Tango
Milonga
Rumba

... from the top of my head, and just from Latin-America.

Lu&#237;s Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

it's pretty common to refer to the U.S. as America. I guess you could say it's slang. I think it's safe to say the forum was started with this in mind. When one says "Americans" they're usually referring to U.S. citizens, as opposed to Canadians or Mexicans. But that's an excellent observation. Thanks for pointing this out for us;).

When I was a teenager (yes, long ago), I have been to Mexico with my parents. I remember a discussion that arised among a group of tourists - my Brazilian family, a Canadian couple, and an assorted group of Argentinians, Venezolans, and people from other Latin American countries. Someone commented the curious coincidence that there were no Americans in the group, and some of the Castillian-speaking Latin-Americans retorted that we all were Americans, since we all were born in the continent. Immediately a divide formed, with the Hispano-American tourists and the local Mexicans arguing that we were the Americans, and that the Yanks had somehow usurped the name, and Brazilians and Canadians taking the opposite line - they are Americans, and we don't want to have anything in common with them, not even such name.

Luís Henrique

[non-vio-resist]

When I was a teenager (yes, long ago), I have been to Mexico with my parents. I remember a discussion that arised among a group of tourists - my Brazilian family, a Canadian couple, and an assorted group of Argentinians, Venezolans, and people from other Latin American countries. Someone commented the curious coincidence that there were no Americans in the group, and some of the Castillian-speaking Latin-Americans retorted that we all were Americans, since we all were born in the continent. Immediately a divide formed, with the Hispano-American tourists and the local Mexicans arguing that we were the Americans, and that the Yanks had somehow usurped the name, and Brazilians and Canadians taking the opposite line - they are Americans, and we don't want to have anything in common with them, not even such name.

Luís Henrique

yeah. technically they're all americans. i hope i didn't give you the impression i'm some kind of ethnocentric nationalist; i believe there is one world and would like to see borders disappear as well as markets. however, i'm just making an observation that, at least, many westerners refer to the u.s. as america. perhaps it does sound a little audacious. i don't know.