You are all mostly fakes - commie cause its different

[Capitalist Imperial]

I submit that most of the members on this forum are just Kids, mostly rich or at least middle-class kids, from the US, canada, or some other western european nation just trying to be different, all while enjoying the benefits of western capitalism (like your computer and the internet). Rarely have members actually lived under socialism or communism, and if you actually tried, you would be high-tailing it back to your western-ideological nation within 1 week. Don't give me BS about being in the US or UK because you want to make a change, because you know that won't happen as most people in the west favor capitalism. Also, don't BS me about you being "forced" to be here and "forced" to use the means and instruments of capitalism, because your survival as a human does not depend on these things, You all are the biggest hypocrites here, otherwise, you would have moved to a communist/socialist country long ago. But you haven't, you are just searching for some identity.

Thoughts? Be honest with me and yourself!

[Anonymous]

The problem with being a kid is that you dont have too much control on what you can do. How many kids can force their parents to move to a different country?

[IzmSchism]

This has the makings of a long thread my capitalist friend.

As for me, I live in Cuba, Fidel and me smoke Cohiba's once a day at three, looking over the veranda of his 2 story loft, while we sip on iced tea. I am a political exile from my native country Canada, Jean Cretien and his hoods kicked me out for my anti-government poetry.

Nah, seriously, I don't ***** about much. Let us just be thankful not everyone is as special as you, If this were the case I would say the earth's lifespan would decrease exponentially.

[Zippy]

I just want more money for the NHS, better rights for workers and stronger trade unions.

I also want to keep my PC, keep my hi-fi, and have a roof over my head and a nice warm bed.

If communism wants to take my PC off of me and give me a sand tray and a stick, i do not support that. If capitalism wants to take away my rights and pay me very little for shitty jobs, then i do not support that either.
Politics can get so dull sometimes.

Zippy.

[I Bow 4 Che]

*tisk tisk* thank you for speaking or asuming my mind for me cause we all no im just 12 and Im completly incapable of speaking or figuring out what i want to say for myself. You're right I dont even know who the hell Che Guevara is I just think his name sounds cool and the only reason I call myself left is because I want to be different and sound older than i actually am! How did you figure me out, you must be some sort of capital genius...Please tell me more of your stradegies so i can go share them with all the kids at the park while I eat my peanut butter and jelly and drink my chocolate milk...fucking moron

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Zippy on 7:58 pm on July 5, 2002
I just want more money for the NHS, better rights for workers and stronger trade unions.

I also want to keep my PC, keep my hi-fi, and have a roof over my head and a nice warm bed.

If communism wants to take my PC off of me and give me a sand tray and a stick, i do not support that. If capitalism wants to take away my rights and pay me very little for shitty jobs, then i do not support that either.
Politics can get so dull sometimes.

Zippy.


A good answer, fair.

But, how does capitalism take away your rights?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 8:19 pm on July 5, 2002
*tisk tisk* thank you for speaking or asuming my mind for me cause we all no im just 12 and Im completly incapable of speaking or figuring out what i want to say for myself. You're right I dont even know who the hell Che Guevara is I just think his name sounds cool and the only reason I call myself left is because I want to be different and sound older than i actually am! How did you figure me out, you must be some sort of capital genius...Please tell me more of your stradegies so i can go share them with all the kids at the park while I eat my peanut butter and jelly and drink my chocolate milk...fucking moron


Yep, I certainly hit a nerve. What country do you live in? How old are you? Answer the question! Or did I hit too close to home?

[Zippy]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:28 pm on July 5, 2002
But, how does capitalism take away your rights?
I'm no expert, and i have said before i am here to learn, but at the minute i can't answer your question perfectly, so i won't try. I will let someone else do it. ;)

Respect,
Zippy.

[I Bow 4 Che]

Im 12 I live in USA and Im a fucking alcoholic... ok really you bother me excessively...I mean this isn't the typical valley-girl hate that I hold for you...its not the brittney spears is a fucking whore kind of hate...its more of a "why is this person alive" kind of hate... yeah I don't understand why you bother posting when you know you will get raged by many who object...do you actually believe you are going to change someone and make them think "hey hes right I am just a fake I think i'll leave because this ass hole just changed my life!" nice try...Im just trying to figure out the point of this fucking thread-just thought you'd like to know

[mcleodstickle]

Funky Monk is right.... im a teenager, and until im 16, i cant move away.... and i didnt really have much choice as to which country i was born in... And as for moving away... i want to get myself a good education first, so im gonna stay in aberdeen til i do, then ill see what happens....

and i aint trying to be different either... i dont really care what the rest of them think....

So there u go, my defence, and i aint given u no "BS" either. Deal with it...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from I Bow 4 Che on 8:41 pm on July 5, 2002
Im 12 I live in USA and Im a fucking alcoholic... ok really you bother me excessively...I mean this isn't the typical valley-girl hate that I hold for you...its not the brittney spears is a fucking whore kind of hate...its more of a "why is this person alive" kind of hate... yeah I don't understand why you bother posting when you know you will get raged by many who object...do you actually believe you are going to change someone and make them think "hey hes right I am just a fake I think i'll leave because this ass hole just changed my life!" nice try...Im just trying to figure out the point of this fucking thread-just thought you'd like to know

LOL, you are a fake

[I Bow 4 Che]

k-cuz you know your judgement is so important to me :D

[mcleodstickle]

I Bow 4 Che is rite too... u aint gonna change anyone with this thread... u are just gonna make us defend our views and make our beliefs stronger.

What are u trying to gain from this??

[samaniego]

Oh man you got me. You exposed the truth about me, now I don't know what to believe.

[Brian]

I'm 20,so I have no real say in this.

[Brian]

LOL, you are a fake
Hey dumbass! This is not a chatroom,use correct grammar."LOL" is not correct grammar,its just a figure used in Chatrooms and this is not a chatroom.How old are you CI?.........6?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from mcleodstickle on 8:47 pm on July 5, 2002
Funky Monk is right.... im a teenager, and until im 16, i cant move away.... and i didnt really have much choice as to which country i was born in... And as for moving away... i want to get myself a good education first, so im gonna stay in aberdeen til i do, then ill see what happens....

and i aint trying to be different either... i dont really care what the rest of them think....

So there u go, my defence, and i aint given u no "BS" either. Deal with it...


Yep, American kid, admittedly staying in the US to go to college, no plans to move to a socialist nation.

Score another one for me!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Brian on 8:58 pm on July 5, 2002



LOL, you are a fake
Hey dumbass! This is not a chatroom,use correct grammar."LOL" is not correct grammar,its just a figure used in Chatrooms and this is not a chatroom.How old are you CI?.........6?


Can't give a legit answer? That's what I thought.

[Brian]

Like I said in the other post dumbass, I'm 20 and have no real say in this. Do I have to repeat that again Capitali$tJunior?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Brian on 9:06 pm on July 5, 2002
Like I said in the other post dumbass, I'm 20 and have no real say in this. Do I have to repeat that again Capitali$tJunior?

Translation: I have no legitimate response, so I'll just use a personal attack

[Brian]

God! Your a dumbass,gee it only took you 5 minutes to think up that.Capitali$tJunior took so long to reply...he must have lost his WebTv connection,tell your mommy to get a real ISP Capitali$tJunior.

[mcleodstickle]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:00 pm on July 5, 2002

Quote: from mcleodstickle on 8:47 pm on July 5, 2002
Funky Monk is right.... im a teenager, and until im 16, i cant move away.... and i didnt really have much choice as to which country i was born in... And as for moving away... i want to get myself a good education first, so im gonna stay in aberdeen til i do, then ill see what happens....

and i aint trying to be different either... i dont really care what the rest of them think....

So there u go, my defence, and i aint given u no "BS" either. Deal with it...


Yep, American kid, admittedly staying in the US to go to college, no plans to move to a socialist nation.

Score another one for me!


Eh no, no score for u im afraid...
I'm scottish, thats why i live in ABERDEEN!?!?
And im gonna stay in Aberdeen or scotland at least to get an education, and then i AM plannning to move away... where to im not sure yet.

So emm... NO SCORE for u, and u are twisting all my words... i noticce u didnt quote any of my FIRST post?!?

[Capitalist Imperial]

I thought you meant aberdeen, Washington, USA

[Brian]

Lost your WebTV connection again Capitali$tJunior?

[mcleodstickle]

olk, still , no score for u im afraid

[Anonymous]

How many places in America and Australia are copies of the names of Towns in Europe. I mean NY used to be New Amsterdam before we took it from the Dutch. Is there a Manchester in USA?

[ILoveShrub]

Here's one for you CapitalistImperial

I am 15 and live in the united states. So this makes me fake So fake that I would waste my time everyday to talk to those who share the same passion. I have tooken meausures to make sure I do not help the U.S. government.I have been saving money for my exodus of the united states as soon it is legal for me to leave. As to my age i must quote an unknown man, "the length of one's journey, does not dictate the knowledge learned."
I have been reading leftist material for three years, and recently trying to organize a forum for leftist near philly. I would like to close by saying that this is my final post on your thread, so make fun of how "Fake" i'm. Because I will not join in on playing you childish game .

viva(and yes I am hispanic so I don't "Fake" being hispanic)

[RGacky3]

CI, I am 16 and I live in the U$. You know being a communist was really hip and cool, so I decided to become one, ya it's just soo in, and cool to be a communist, ya I just wan't to be different right, I really know nothing of any socialist material, no I just wan't to be COOL. Thats why I use up much of my time on this site working on my socialist book, reading massive leftist books. No CI people are socialist here becouse they believe in it, becouse they realize the unjustice in capitalism and realize the justice in communism. How does Capitalism take away your rights? It takes away the workers rights and puts them in the hands of the bougeousi, sure the bougeousi gains the right to exploit, but the proletariate losses their right to their own life.

CI I hate you, why don't you die, go hang your self

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from mcleodstickle on 9:38 pm on July 5, 2002
olk, still , no score for u im afraid


I'm afraid it is a score for me, you are a kid from a western european nation, who plans to go to college in that western european nation with no immediate plans to move to a socialist or communist regime

[Beyond Good and Evil]

I fail to see what any of this proves, national birth or residence does not determine political stance and, much as youd like it to, calling communists in capitalist nations "fake" wont change a thing. Theyre still going to be left and living in their home regardless. Please CI, can we just drop this thread? Its completly pointless and only causes people headaches. If you want to argue, argue something that matters instead something this childish.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from ILoveShrub on 10:11 pm on July 5, 2002
Here's one for you CapitalistImperial

I am 15 and live in the united states. So this makes me fake So fake that I would waste my time everyday to talk to those who share the same passion. I have tooken meausures to make sure I do not help the U.S. government.I have been saving money for my exodus of the united states as soon it is legal for me to leave. As to my age i must quote an unknown man, "the length of one's journey, does not dictate the knowledge learned."
I have been reading leftist material for three years, and recently trying to organize a forum for leftist near philly. I would like to close by saying that this is my final post on your thread, so make fun of how "Fake" i'm. Because I will not join in on playing you childish game .

viva(and yes I am hispanic so I don't "Fake" being hispanic)


OK, ILoveShrub, good stuff, someone is actually stepping up and making an "exodus". I will be happy to help pack your bags. Where will you be moving too?

[Felicia]

*POP*
This thread has moved me so deeply I can't begin to tell you all. I am now a capitalist, and I want to spread the sphere of influence of the US to the far corners of the world. "oppress the people, oppress the people!!"
(that is sarcasm, guys :) )

[Brian]

Why didn't you reply to my posts? Are you scared Capitali$tjunior?


(Edited by Brian at 6:10 pm on July 5, 2002)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Brian on 12:05 am on July 6, 2002
Why didn't you reply to my posts? Are you scared Capitali$tjunior?


(Edited by Brian at 6:10 pm on July 5, 2002)


Your posts are weak, you use the same insults over and over. What am I supposed to respond too? OK...

Darn you! I have a real computer, not webTV!!! That'll show you!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Kind of funny, everyone is responding to this post sarcastically, but only a couple have given me legitimate answers, and one of those answers basically confirms what I claimed!

[Brian]

Still fucking sheep there , CI?

(Edited by Brian at 4:47 am on Sep. 29, 2002)

[pastradamus]

No people have given u good answers.But u have made a prick outta urself enough to ignore them.Ignorant just like ur govt!

[Conghaileach]

How does being a youth with leftist ideals growing up in a Western country make one "fake"?

[pastradamus]

dont bother ciaran,u cant argue with a retard.

[Michael De Panama]

:o

How did you discover our secret, Cappie Imperial?

Quick! Everyone put on their khakis and jump into the SUV and lets get out of here as fast as fucking possible!!

[Mazdak]

I am communist because it gives me attention. Tomorrow i will be a nazi and the next day its alquida. Hell, i might even try to become an anarchist if it makes me look different. CI scores again.


About the sarcasm, what the hell do you expect, that one little post is suddenly going to change beliefs so deeply engrained in peoples heads. After seeing your arguments crushed over and over, you should be questioning your own beliefs but obviously you are far to stubborn and ignorant to even think about looking at things in perspective. I am 15, so?? Does that make me to young to understand politics??? You and the few capitalists here see all your arguments swept away yet not once do you say to yourself, maybe I am wrong or maybe i should look more closely at my beliefs. LEARN HOW TO QUESTION THINGS AND STOP BEING SO PROUD TO BE A FUCKING SHEEP!!!

Have a nice day

[Lardlad95]

read my fucking sig CI.

America is my home. I love alot of people here, i do not however love the US government I want to change it.

Which is why I'm a socialist.

I don't want to live in a place where I'm not from. This is my home and I want to change it for the better.

I do not believe in socialism for attention.

Also I can't believe your evil enough not to want people to be equal like the rest of us do

[Beyond Good and Evil]

It's not like everyone else in the world is a diehard capitalist. Most people here (America) seem to barely have beliefs and opinons floating just above their consciousness.....

[Thine Stalin]

Heyyyy... I happen to like khaki's you don't have to be rich to afford them. I am currently living in a small port town, and I work at the docks, I don't earn alot of money, and I have little contact with my family. I cannot run more than 2 things that require electricty and I lack running water, though there is a little porto-potty nearby. I don't live in a trailer park either >: ( I intend to travel back to Europe when I gather up enough money and stay with former friends, and then if I manage to scrounge up some money there its off to the ukraine.

By the way I'm in my early 20's and my home is probably the size of CI's bedroom.

[Capitalist Fighter]

"As for me, I live in Cuba, Fidel and me smoke Cohiba's once a day at three"

I thought Fidel quit smoking? lol

[ID2002]

CI,

fake?

...thats why I am apart of the the Socialist Party, and have attended a number of meetings for the Communist Party in Canada. I am also a regular visitor to Cuba, where I am greated warmly. I believe in socialist ideology 100%, and feel that Marxism has much to offer us.

....so I ask you... am I a fake? If you were smart you would say, NO!

[RedCeltic]

WTF? Five pages in a thread started today?!

I'm not going to read all the five pages in this, and not even more than the first post....

Capitalist Imperial:

There are many movements that are represented here under the banner of CHE, mostly because he has become an international symbol of a man who would give up the prospect of personal wealth for the better good of the people. That is in a sense, what I see in him.

However, I am here strictly because this is the most popular left wing board on the web, and one year ago I would have thought myself to be the only person here who was a democratic socialist who didn't agree with capitalism nor communism.

Let me put it to you this way my friend:

I'm 31 years old and have had socialist beliefs for as long as I can remember. I do not lean on the thoughts of people who are not Americans, save for Marx and Engels who influenced early American radicals.

I am an American Democratic Socialist in the same vane as Eugene V. Debs, Norman M. Thomas, John Steinbeck, Upton Sinclair, Jack London, David McReynolds, Michael Harrington, etc...

Learn a bit more about these people and what they stand for before you put me in the same boiling pot as Stalin, Pol Pot, Lenin, Ho Chi min, Castro, etc..

I suspect that I am less of a child than you are and have been involved in politics far longer than you have been. While it was legal for me to vote only in 1989, I have been politically motivated since the Ford administration, while most my age where reading "Highlights"...




(Edited by RedCeltic at 11:44 pm on July 5, 2002)

[PunkRawker677]

I'm 17.. that makes me fake.. let me tell you a little about myself!

17 i may be! I graduated a couple weeks after my 16th birthday and am now in my late first year of community college (only thing i can afford, even with my scholarship - 75%).. I work two jobs, one at a restuarant about 40-50 hours a week, and one at garage door repair company about 20 hours a week.. I live with a roomate in a ONE bedroom apartment. it's PROBABLY the size of you BATHROOM!! And i cannot afford a car and therefore have to use public transportation, which anyone who lives in Florida can tell you that its one of the worst.

Would i have to do this if my parent's weren't very sick and lower-middle class, sometimes straight out poor? Is my life much "easier" than most people twice my age?

no!

I live in America because this is my country too, and i will devote my life to its change, which is why i am majoring in political science. I will not leave my country, and i will not leave my beliefs. My age means nothing, and i will endlessly strive to meet my goals..

[peaccenicked]

yeah. Puzzled look. I am 42. I declared my atheism at the age of five. Read the Iron Heel at the age of 11.
There has been no looking back. CI is a fake, if he thinks he is in anyway intelligent.
To quote bowB4che
''Fucking moron''

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from PunkRawker677 on 1:10 am on July 6, 2002
I'm 17.. that makes me fake.. let me tell you a little about myself!

17 i may be! I graduated a couple weeks after my 16th birthday and am now in my late first year of community college (only thing i can afford, even with my scholarship - 75%).. I work two jobs, one at a restuarant about 40-50 hours a week, and one at garage door repair company about 20 hours a week.. I live with a roomate in a ONE bedroom apartment. it's PROBABLY the size of you BATHROOM!! And i cannot afford a car and therefore have to use public transportation, which anyone who lives in Florida can tell you that its one of the worst.

Would i have to do this if my parent's weren't very sick and lower-middle class, sometimes straight out poor? Is my life much "easier" than most people twice my age?

no!

I live in America because this is my country too, and i will devote my life to its change, which is why i am majoring in political science. I will not leave my country, and i will not leave my beliefs. My age means nothing, and i will endlessly strive to meet my goals..


17 you may be: however, your far from a stupid kid and we are all proud to know you! ( those with any brains anyway)....

[RedCeltic]

looks like I posted at the same time as you yet again Peace.. lol...

[peaccenicked]

synchronicity?lol

[Anonymous]

What is the point of moving to a nation which is already Socialist? Wouldn't it be much better to try to make a difference in a company treading the path of capitalism.

It is much easier to change something from within than without.

[Capitalist Fighter]

I think the point that CI is trying to make is that many of you are comfortable in your capitalist nations that you claim to be communist/socialist/anarchists when your actions do not directly represent your ideals. Now this might not be the case for all of you, but a myriad of you are young, one person as young as 12 and claim to be part of the left. How can you be so educated about a political system as left wing socialism at such a young age. Have you read Marx's Capital Volume 1, 2, 3? Read Engels, Lenin, questioned the system you live in, accepted both sides of the stories and made your own decision?? I seriously think some people especially I bow 4 Che are not true socialists. Nothing against you IB4C, but seriously at 12 you think you are a socialist? Pluuuhze. At 12 I was doing my homework everynight and making sure i didn't miss simpsons! I know you haven't read any Marx or Lenin and understood it, instead read the romanticised version of Che's life, adored his face on a poster or t-shirt and being attracted to his matyrdom.
Also many of you consumer capitalist products yet claim to support a system that abolishes such practises. Who doesn't have Microsoft? Drink Coca-Cola? Eat McDonalds? Come on i doubt most of you set a suitable example that falls in line with what you preach. CI is simply saying that living in Western Capitalist nations and claiming to be left is the ultimately oxymoron. The "older" ones here, those hopefully older than 12, will understand what i'm saying.

[Vladimir]

I understand what he's tryin to say, i think, He thinks that all leftests are stalinist fucks who want the old USSR back and live as peasants, but im not i am a democratic socialist and this is the only system thats fair, communism isnt stalinism either. And most people on this site dont claim this shit, communism is great and all but its not meant for now, who wants communism when democracy is doing so great.
But Capitalism and impearialism sucks ass and i dont think the so called capitalist on this board agree with it, all people want is a good, fair system where you can benefit from your work but where its fair to all people.
Thats why i believe that leftist democracy is the best we can hope for, not Bush and his corrupt oil buddies and secret government organisations everywhere, and you capitalists dont want this either, if you do want this greedy, evil system you are fools.
Finally, i support democracy , its a great system and there should be soft leftys in charge.
Dammit lads its simple.

IrishGuevara

[bulljivus]

I submit that most of the members on this forum are just Kids, mostly rich or at least middle-class kids, from the US, canada, or some other western european nation just trying to be different, all while enjoying the benefits of western capitalism (like your computer and the internet). Rarely have members actually lived under socialism or communism, and if you actually tried, you would be high-tailing it back to your western-ideological nation within 1 week. Don't give me BS about being in the US or UK because you want to make a change, because you know that won't happen as most people in the west favor capitalism

i live in america, and i am surrounded with bullshit like you said. i have a computer, and a dsl modem, and a fridge packed full of food. but, it's more complex than that. i'm buddhist; i have no possessions. i am trained not to attach to anything material. but, i live in a house where there are others who do have material items, like this computer. if i have the ability to go on the internet and speak my beliefs, start discussions, and maybe learn or help someone else learn, it may be best to take advantage of that then; that's why i'm using this thousand dollar computer. i don't need it or crave it, and i could do without it, without blinking. but since it is here, and it gives me a chance to do something positive, i may as well use it. and yeah, i've got a coat and nice clothes. but i don't care about them; it's like there are two children out in the cold, one of them being wrapped up by his mother in a huge blanket, while the other is naked. you can't really say that the kid in the blanket needs it, or can't do without it; he never even had the option of whether to possess it or not. (not that it matters, but i can raise my body temperature. so i don't need a coat... take that, fur coat wearing people that can't do that) there are many people that claim that they want a communist society, and maybe they're so deep in a capitalist society that they don't know what they're saying. but, you can't say that everyone is like that. it IS possible to live in the middle of wealth and keep the mentality of the poor. not poor, but... you get the idea.

as for the part of people being uneducated about communism, i'd fit under that. i have never read any of marx's books, never studied it. i have only become familiar with the concept of it. because of that, i don't preach communism. but, i do know about a few things, and i do support those thigns; things like an income tax, to restrict the ridiculously rich from being richer, and distributing their confiscated money to the poor. but i avoid getting too involved in hardcore communism. so educationwise, people can follow their own limits. some people can't

[abstractmentality]

i am 18, live in the us, and will be going to school here for all of my college studies, save for if i study abroad which i would love to do. i have not read all of what i should have read by now, but honestly, which one of can say he/she has read what they personally think they should have by this age? but this does not make me fake whatsoever. as lardlad's sig says, i am going to attempt to do things here. i think im going to become a teacher in high school or at the college level, teaching the truth about us history, as my us history teacher did, and open up the eyes to many students, while doing other things in the time out of school.

CI, i have often thought about what you have said, believe it or not. but i can not say that i agree with you that by living in a capitalistic nation automatically makes the left unleft (in lack of a better term).

[abstractmentality]

i forgot to write that living in the country and indulging oneself are two completley different things.

[I Bow 4 Che]

I am a very fucked up person and far from your average 12 year old. I am not saying this as an advantage to my ego. I am saying it to an advantage of my argument. You claim that I can't possibly be a socialist because I am too young? That is your best excuse? That is hardly something to regard. Because you weren't into politics at such a young and stupid age I can't be? Because most kids think that republican is a clothing brand I do? You are being more than steryotypical. There is always a begining to a strong belief and ofcourse because I just started this belief at age 10 it is not as strong as most on the board. I am still learning and I never claimed to know everything about the world. Why the hell do you think I am here! You are trying to decide my belief for me because I am young. Well you know what I am fucking sick of adults trying to do that. I believe in equality even if you just left gradeschool. I am entitled to my own opinion and I believe the first post I ever made on this board stated this: "Che is my hero not for his shirt but for his ideas and beliefs"

and also this

I am not an immature child who knows nothing of Che. I have read many books on him and about the Cuban revolution, and Communism, including 2 of my favorite books, "Che" and "The Communist Manifesto"

I think that I decide whether Im going to be left or right...not you...my parents pulled the same stunt on me and I refuse to listen. A real twelve year old would feel defeated -a real twelve year old would have left this board by now- a real twelve year old would have realized they hardly ever talk about Rage Against the Machine and would have left months ago-A real twelve year-old wouldnt give u a reply- I am not a real twelve year old, I am me.

[I Bow 4 Che]

one more addition...a direct quote from gogo gomez-

"Helen Keller she was incredible, that just goes to show that how capable people are whether your young or old.

young people are cool they have an advantage that older people do not yet at the same time older people have an advantage that young people do not."


just found it relevant

(Edited by I Bow 4 Che at 7:38 pm on July 6, 2002)

[Lefty]

im 13. I live in the U.S. My parents have a BMW, and we live in an old neighborhood. We make about 60,000 dollars per year. I dont deny it. But hey, I spread the word and I am getting many people to agree with my views. Whatever. I am here to learn and to talk with intelligent people, and maybe help others learn. I didnt read the entire thread, so Im sure this is redundant. Sorry.

[Brian]

I'm Brian,I'm 20 and a Socialst. Ahhaarrra!

(Edited by Brian at 12:00 am on July 7, 2002)

[suffianr]

So, what makes you a fake capitalist? Does being in this community and upholding your personal beliefs in capitalism validate your position as a capitalist? Does it mean you're the real deal just because you respond to every attack against capitalism and propogate new attacks on communism every once in a while?

So, if we're all fakes, how do YOU explain yourself? Do you really have a genuine purpose here?

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
I submit that most of the members on this forum are just Kids[hr]I'm 23. Legally, I'm allowed to do just as much as a 40-year-old, except for running for office. I have a college degree. I pay my own bills. I have two jobs. I support myself. I'm no senior citizen, but I'm also not a 12-year-old Zach de la Rocha fanatic.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
mostly rich or at least middle-class kids[hr]I lived on a farm for more than half of my life. And after that I lived in the inner city. It's not exactly rich or middle class to go from waking up at 4:00 in the morning to milk cows (which I really did have to do) to seeing people sell crack in front of my apartment building.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
all while enjoying the benefits of western capitalism (like your computer and the internet).[hr]This computer isn't actually mine. And who the hell is to say that if we lived in a social democratic society (I'm a social democrat, by the way), I wouldn't have a computer? Actually, in a social democratic society, more people would have computers (but less would own BMWs). But what does the West have to do with this? What if I was from Japan?[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
Rarely have members actually lived under socialism or communism, and if you actually tried, you would be high-tailing it back to your western-ideological nation within 1 week.[hr]I lived on a commune for more than a decade. And when we had to move to the city, I was dragged away kicking and screaming. I still miss my communist lifestyle.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
Don't give me BS about being in the US or UK because you want to make a change, because you know that won't happen as most people in the west favor capitalism.[hr]Actually, I have volunteered for a successful campaign to build more homeless shelters in my city. And when I was younger, I would babysit welfare mothers' children while they went to work so that they could afford to keep a roof over their kids' heads. And I am devoting my entire life to improving free schooling for poor children, so that when they are older they might be able to move out of the bad neighborhoods that would not exist in such abundance if the poor weren't ripped off so much.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
Also, don't BS me about you being "forced" to be here and "forced" to use the means and instruments of capitalism, because your survival as a human does not depend on these things[hr]Exactly which instruments of capitalism are you referring to?[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
You all are the biggest hypocrites here, otherwise, you would have moved to a communist/socialist country long ago.[hr]I already told you that I used to live on a commune (which is pretty fucking communist!). After that, I spent a lot of time volunteering to help the poor. Now I'm a teacher. If I wanted to, I could work in a nice school in the suburbs and make a lot more money, but instead I'm in a shitty area because I care about poor people more than I care about money.[hr]Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 2:49 pm on July 5, 2002
Thoughts? Be honest with me and yourself![hr]I think that every single thing you said was wrong. I honestly believe that you're a shithead.

Lindsay

[Capitalist Fighter]

IWDY, CI used the word "most" when describing the majority of the members here. There are exceptions like you. So your attempts to refute his claims were pointless as his argument was flexible enough for expections.

[Xvall]

CI.. With that Ideology, (People Living in a capitalist nation are Capitalists.) that would mean that EVERYONE who lived in the Third Reich was a Nazi.

[suffianr]

CI, we made you, remember that...If your apparent disgust of communism never manifested into your relentless (and sometimes, sorry to say, pointless) arguments on this message board, then you wouldn't even be here.

Heck, you might have "evolved" into a fellow leftist yourself, and actually be enjoying communicating with other people across the world in an online community for leftists!

Heheh...it's all good, mate. :)

[Moskitto]

all while enjoying the benefits of western capitalism (like your computer and the internet). Rarely have members actually lived under socialism or communism,

The same could be said about capitalists living in socialist countries who are born post revolution.

[I Bow 4 Che]

he still hasn't replied to my post...I think I won

[James]

How old are you CI?

[Lardlad95]

I will deny you is right. In Sweden everyone is issued a cell phone and a computer so fuck you and your beliefs Capitalist Imperial

[Conghaileach]

from I Will Deny You
but I'm also not a 12-year-old Zach de la Rocha fanatic.

This guy's name has been mentioned around here quite a bit. Who the hell is he?

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Capitalist Fighter on 11:50 am on July 7, 2002
IWDY, CI used the word "most" when describing the majority of the members here. There are exceptions like you. So your attempts to refute his claims were pointless as his argument was flexible enough for expections.
Yeah, but I'm not the only one who can make such arguments. If CI wanted to know about our ages, there is more than one thread on age and there are plenty of members who aren't kids. Plenty of us aren't middle class and plenty of us are actively working for change. (And believe you me, I hate those "I am just waiting around for the violent revolution to come" kids even more than you do. I'm sure that my past posts prove this.) I'm not sure if anyone else has lived under communism or socialism. Malte is German, so maybe he used to. But the fact of the matter is that there isn't a communist country where English is the first language. I'm sure that there are communists out there who live in communist countries and are active, but they write about it in a different language. (If you don't think there's a single person who used to live under communism who doesn't prefer free-market capitalism, 70% of people living in Russia prefer the USSR to the IMF.)

Lindsay

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 5:28 pm on July 7, 2002
[ (And believe you me, I hate those "I am just waiting around for the violent revolution to come" kids even more than you do. I'm sure that my past posts prove this.)

I'm with you 100% on that IWDY, (as you know) It's more often simply a case of immaturity.. Silly teens trying to look cool. If they truly cared about the people they would do what they can in the present. But no, they get caught up in an ideological quagmire and focus on dreams of storming capital hill with automatic weapons.


I'm not sure if anyone else has lived under communism or socialism. Malte is German, so maybe he used to.

Malte lives in Düsseldorf a city in north west Germany, very close to Amsterdam. So no he didn't live in East Germany, and judging by the way he feels about Stalinism I'm sure he has no dreams of bringing back the GDR.

[Stormin Norman]

Zach de la Rocha was the lead singer for the group Rage Against the Machine before they broke up. He is also leftist scum, but was the first person to really succeed at the Rock/Rap mixture of music. His band had a great sound accompanied by a hard hitting groove. Everyone has tried to copy his format. This is why Kid Rock, Limp Biscuit and many others have gained inm popularity. No one has been able to do what he did for music, as pop culture is now flooded with cheap imitations.

[pseudo christ]

i'm 16, i goto school ,my dad is an acountant and my mum trades shares.....yes i take full advantage of a capitalist econamy and i dont deny it, but the fact of teh matter is that i belong to many left wing groups, i read left wing books, and fully belive in a left wing society, which puts me light years ahead of any capitalist. I use the resources of the enemy to further what i percieve as the cause...i teach myself spanish and plan on moving to cuba once i have a degree...which is more than you'll probably ever do with your pointless capitalist life...have fun being exploited

[Stormin Norman]

In response to pseuso christ's statement:

'...i teach myself spanish and plan on moving to cuba once i have a degree...which is more than you'll probably ever do with your pointless capitalist life...have fun being exploited'

Really? What kind of a degree do you plan on getting? Don't you think it will be wasted in a backwords thinking nation? I will enjoy myself in my car (which won't be a 57 Chevy), in my house (brand new custom built), on my boat, in my plane, and in a capitalist society that allows for such decadence. Better yet, I will enjoy knowing that you are struggling in a communist nation, which you decided to move to. If a nation with few of today's modern ammenities, and devoid of the freedom to enjoy life like I enjoy life is your dream, via con dios. That is one less worthless socialist mouth to feed over here in the good old U.S. of A..
Seriously, do you think that my life will be wasted. I will be identifying problems, generating solutions, and creating technology while you are playing in the dirt with oppressed school children. How noble he choose to waste his life and hide from lifes real problems. In my world we have a saying; 'If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.' So if thumbing your nose at the country which offered you such a plethora of possibilities is your choice, have fun being starved by a dictator. I will be improving modes of production and inventing new technologies, while the likes of you take them for granted. What will you be doing, tarring roofs?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from CiaranB on 11:25 pm on July 7, 2002
from I Will Deny You
but I'm also not a 12-year-old Zach de la Rocha fanatic.

This guy's name has been mentioned around here quite a bit. Who the hell is he?


He's the frontman of "Rage against the Machine", the worlds most hypocritical band.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 5:15 pm on July 7, 2002
CI.. With that Ideology, (People Living in a capitalist nation are Capitalists.) that would mean that EVERYONE who lived in the Third Reich was a Nazi.


I never claimed that ideology

[Xvall]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:52 pm on July 8, 2002

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 5:15 pm on July 7, 2002
CI.. With that Ideology, (People Living in a capitalist nation are Capitalists.) that would mean that EVERYONE who lived in the Third Reich was a Nazi.


I never claimed that ideology

Didn't you? You say I'm a capitalist because I'm using 'capitalistic' resources. Well technically, people in Nazi germany were using National Socialistic resources.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from pseudo christ on 11:37 am on July 8, 2002
i'm 16, i goto school ,my dad is an acountant and my mum trades shares.....yes i take full advantage of a capitalist econamy and i dont deny it, but the fact of teh matter is that i belong to many left wing groups, i read left wing books, and fully belive in a left wing society, which puts me light years ahead of any capitalist. I use the resources of the enemy to further what i percieve as the cause...i teach myself spanish and plan on moving to cuba once i have a degree...which is more than you'll probably ever do with your pointless capitalist life...have fun being exploited


Translation: your right, CI

And we'll see if you actually move to cuba, dude

[Capitalist Imperial]

Man, I struck gold with this thread, some good responses, some predictibly dumb and dogmatic ones, but good stuff all around!! When the swears and personal attacks come out, I know I stuck nerves!!

LOL, LOL good stuff.

[Anonymous]

My grand grand father was comunist, my grand father was comunist, my father was comunist and I am Anarchist! By just a mather of fact i plan to get out of this shity country! And gert real you are a capitalist in a socialist site! Maby you are the kid here! maby its you who wants to make a stand and be diferent!!!!!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:43 am on July 6, 2002
I am communist because it gives me attention. Tomorrow i will be a nazi and the next day its alquida. Hell, i might even try to become an anarchist if it makes me look different. CI scores again.


About the sarcasm, what the hell do you expect, that one little post is suddenly going to change beliefs so deeply engrained in peoples heads. After seeing your arguments crushed over and over, you should be questioning your own beliefs but obviously you are far to stubborn and ignorant to even think about looking at things in perspective. I am 15, so?? Does that make me to young to understand politics??? You and the few capitalists here see all your arguments swept away yet not once do you say to yourself, maybe I am wrong or maybe i should look more closely at my beliefs. LEARN HOW TO QUESTION THINGS AND STOP BEING SO PROUD TO BE A FUCKING SHEEP!!!

Have a nice day


Dude, what are you talking about? Our capitalist arguements are seldom refuted adequately. They are mostly real-world examples that you refute with dogmmatic theory, hardly a "crushing" of our logic. If anything, your arguements have been disproven in reality consistently.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 6:11 pm on July 8, 2002
My grand grand father was comunist, my grand father was comunist, my father was comunist and I am Anarchist! By just a mather of fact i plan to get out of this shity country! And gert real you are a capitalist in a socialist site! Maby you are the kid here! maby its you who wants to make a stand and be diferent!!!!!


When are you leaving and where are you going

[PunkRawker677]

are you going to reply to my post?

stop trying to pass judgement on people you don't know anything about..

[I Bow 4 Che]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 5:50 pm on July 8, 2002

Quote: from CiaranB on 11:25 pm on July 7, 2002
from I Will Deny You
but I'm also not a 12-year-old Zach de la Rocha fanatic.

This guy's name has been mentioned around here quite a bit. Who the hell is he?


He's the frontman of "Rage against the Machine", the worlds most hypocritical band.


wow you're just bashing everything now aren't you?

[Thine Stalin]

You think swearing and personal attacks mean you struck a nerve with these liberals? They are very sensitive I know, I think someone should make a post about the angry people who get overly upset at someone's opinion.

[RedCeltic]

I think Capitalist Imperial has shown that he himself is nothing but a immature teenager trolling on the internet... with no true purpose in life but to get his jollies by getting a rise out of people.

I wouldn't trust him more than I could kick him, and rarely read any of his boring rehashed rantings that are nothing original, and nothing worth reading.

[Stormin Norman]

Yes, Red Celtic, be the beacon of shining maturity on the hill for all of us misguided souls to look up to for wisdom. I happen to like Capitalist Imperialist, because he regularly pokes holes in your arguements. Not only does he manage that task will relative ease, but he also does it in a intertaining manner.

[RedCeltic]

He has yet to come up with a valid argument, as do you, and are only trolling on this board for an ego boost. I do wish he would do that somewhere else.

[Stormin Norman]

Sounds like you are mad that we have come here and dominated the social hierarchy of discourse. Sorry, we didn't mean to send you home with your tail between your legs. Besides you know you love getting spanked.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 7:36 am on July 9, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

Now how come you take the time to read his posts but not mine

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 1:34 pm on July 8, 2002
Sounds like you are mad that we have come here and dominated the social hierarchy of discourse. Sorry, we didn't mean to send you home with your tail between your legs. Besides you know you love getting spanked.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 7:36 am on July 9, 2002)


Don't flatter yourself Nancy boy. You’re both mostly always wrong and than pat each other on the arse in congratulations for another steaming pile of manure you heaved in here.

[Stormin Norman]

Innaccurate, yet funny none the less. Do you really think everything I say is a pile of manure. Really, I am starting to get tired of the same old discussion. That is why I posted a completely new topic for all of you to ponder. Take a look at the post entitled the 'Great Computer Debate'. You might like it. Certainly, someone of your leftist persuation would enjoy quotes from Ted Kasinsky. Honestly, I am interested in your opinion on the matter.

[RedCeltic]

Stormin Norman: I was really attacking CI, you just got in the way of the crossfire.. lol...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from PunkRawker677 on 7:10 am on July 6, 2002
I'm 17.. that makes me fake.. let me tell you a little about myself!

17 i may be! I graduated a couple weeks after my 16th birthday and am now in my late first year of community college (only thing i can afford, even with my scholarship - 75%).. I work two jobs, one at a restuarant about 40-50 hours a week, and one at garage door repair company about 20 hours a week.. I live with a roomate in a ONE bedroom apartment. it's PROBABLY the size of you BATHROOM!! And i cannot afford a car and therefore have to use public transportation, which anyone who lives in Florida can tell you that its one of the worst.

Would i have to do this if my parent's weren't very sick and lower-middle class, sometimes straight out poor? Is my life much "easier" than most people twice my age?

no!

I live in America because this is my country too, and i will devote my life to its change, which is why i am majoring in political science. I will not leave my country, and i will not leave my beliefs. My age means nothing, and i will endlessly strive to meet my goals..


Good answer.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Stormin Norman on 7:17 pm on July 8, 2002
Yes, Red Celtic, be the beacon of shining maturity on the hill for all of us misguided souls to look up to for wisdom. I happen to like Capitalist Imperialist, because he regularly pokes holes in your arguements. Not only does he manage that task will relative ease, but he also does it in a intertaining manner.


Thank you, stormin normin, I feel likewise about you and your posts. (And I'm not just saying that out of courtesy, I am genuinely impressed with what you have brought to the table for the capitalists on this board).

P.S. Nice Avatar!!!

[RedCeltic]

Nice ass pat CI :biggrin:

[Guest]

(this is Hanzo)

unfortunatly CI, you are generally right. however, if I had a choice I would live for two months in each latin american country successivly.


no, really!


c'mon Ci you know i'm dedicated and openminded, I could do it!

I think....

-Hattori Hanzo

[Capitalist Imperial]

LOL hattori

[Michael De Panama]

Hahaha.

[Anonymous]

CI: fisrt of all dont have to tell you! and i dont have a target country to move! that would spoil all the excitment! moving with a target is stupid cause thoinks never go like you expect!!!! see you thinmk just like an capitalist! your life has no excitment! if I know were i was going to i would lost all my interest but if i just go..... Like Nietzch said in zaratustra: "Young man-"how will I climb the montain? wise man- just climb it"!
Its like if you want to find Happiness! you wount find it! unless you realise that the whole process of the searching for hapiness is hapiness It self!

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 3:31 pm on July 10, 2002
CI: fisrt of all dont have to tell you! and i dont have a target country to move! that would spoil all the excitment! moving with a target is stupid cause thoinks never go like you expect!!!! see you thinmk just like an capitalist! your life has no excitment! if I know were i was going to i would lost all my interest but if i just go..... Like Nietzch said in zaratustra: "Young man-"how will I climb the montain? wise man- just climb it"!
Its like if you want to find Happiness! you wount find it! unless you realise that the whole process of the searching for hapiness is hapiness It self!

Translation: You're actually right, CI, my last post was just BS, I will stay in the USA and claim to be an anarchist while enjoying the peace and prosperity of the USA.

[Hattori Hanzo]

don't believe me CI?

i kinda share your doubt, cause I missed an oppuntunity to live in Honduras for a month, i think it was unintentional, but i may have had some subconcious thing going...

[Red Revolution]

As I wish to finish my education. I shall not be moving yet. However in the summer of 2003 a group of friends and I are going on a trip to Cuba on a "World Chalenge Expos". Then what follows? who knows. However what I do want to know is that el che's life was very exiting (more so than most yanks) and I for one would seriosly like to take part in a revolution.


(Edited by Red Revolution at 9:57 pm on July 11, 2002)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 9:11 pm on July 10, 2002
don't believe me CI?

i kinda share your doubt, cause I missed an oppuntunity to live in Honduras for a month, i think it was unintentional, but i may have had some subconcious thing going...


No, I believe you, you actually gave a plan, get me some bannanas while you're there. I was referring to anarchist.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 9:38 pm on July 10, 2002
As I wish to finish my education (and am only 14) I shall not be moving yet. However in the summer of 2003 a group of friends and I are going on a trip to Cuba on a "World Chalenge Expos". Then what follows? who knows. However what I do want to know is that el che's life was very exiting (more so than most yanks) and I for one would seriosly like to take part in a revolution.


I can name 20 yanks with a life at least as exciting as che's in 60 seconds, and they were smart enough to live to tell about it.

[RedSovietCCCP]

Capitalist Imperial you are right about all these little kids on this web-site. Just go to the chit chat topic on this web-site and see all the little kids pictures on the ME forum. Like I said before its just a little phase that there going through. They will get over it in a matter of months. Micheal has no idea what the fuck he is talking about on all of his posting. He cries like a little ***** when somebody proves him wrong on communism. He just a little kid that thinks he knows everything about something but in reality knows jackshit. Micheal, stick to video games!!! You don't know half the shit concerning socialism. I'm sick of you trying to tell me what true communism is (when I have professors telling me what it is) when in reaility you haven't even opened the door to what it is. I'm not going to listen to a 16 year old faggot that tells me what it is. So please, shut the fuck up!!!! I'm sick of reading your bullshit!!!! Oh, I'm sorry I said faggot, does that mean I'm not a communist?? Well according to most of the pre-schoolers I am not a communist because I used a racist word. It's OK little boys and girls you will get over it!!!

(Edited by RedSovietCCCP at 11:51 pm on July 10, 2002)


(Edited by RedSovietCCCP at 7:46 pm on July 11, 2002)

[Michael De Panama]

Hahaha. Hey, genius, go to the "I'm confused" thread in "Theory" to see my impression of you.

When have you EVER proved me wrong? I seem to recall many times you've proved that you're an idiot. Does that count? Why do you constantly repeat this nonsense that I don't know anything about communism. I may be younger than you, but at least I know how to spell simple words like "imperial" and "reality", and at least I have enough grammar skills to know not to use the word "threw" as a preposition. That might say something about your intelligence as compared to mine.

Of course, what do I know?

[guerrillaradio]

Y'know, I was gonna write a really long post on this topic, but the post above by everyone's favourite exclamation mark bashin' "commie" illustrates perfectly two things:

(i) why I am not a communist
(ii) why I don't (and don't wanna) live in
a "communist" country.

EDIT: Damn Mikey, why did you have to post before me!!! Mine was supposed to directly follow RSCCCP's!!! Ah well. :)

(Edited by guerrillaradio at 12:20 am on July 11, 2002)

[Avamatha]

There were so many of answers in this forum, that I couldn't read them all..

But, I must say that I am from.. well, I'd say kinda rich family, and I'm not a communist.

But it wasn't the idea, at the first place. I admire Che, and maybe one day I _will_ become a communist.

I don't want to say what I am before I'm sure of it, and to be sure about something, you have to find out.

So you can say, that I'm here to find out. :)

(..or something like that.)

[Michael De Panama]

Sorry about that. :)

[Moskitto]

why do people not seem to understand what the whole point of the Chit Chat forum is?

Anyway, there are more things to do in life than constantly discuss communism. If I wanted to discuss communism i'd get a cable line, lots of coffee and stay away all day and all night in a communism chatroom. Or then again I could just avoid a debilitating heart problem and go to sleep sometimes.

I have other things to do than just discuss communism all the time. I actually have a life.

[Shyne]

God I love America..

[Xvall]

Shyne? What's with you? And What's with the sexist quote?

[Thine Stalin]

I don't like discussing communism all the time either.. which kinda pissed me off when I had my posting ability for chit chat removed. I had never discussed stalinism or anything in there..

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Thine Stalin on 3:03 am on July 11, 2002
I don't like discussing communism all the time either.. which kinda pissed me off when I had my posting ability for chit chat removed. I had never discussed stalinism or anything in there..

You're not allowed in Chit Chat?? That's not fair. Much as I dislike you, you did no harm there...

[Thine Stalin]

Well I was, but we're all allowed in chit chat now, I think anyway.

[pseudo christ]

Reply To Stormin Norman :
I want to get a political sciences degree. I want to help cuba and other commie nations advance in the face of trade sanctions and other obstacles placed in their way by self righteous "democratic" countries. I choose to use my abilities in "backwards" countries because i hope to make a diference where it matters, rather than in greedy countries where they couldn;t care dick about what i can offer.

teen dreams never to be realised? maybe, but atleast i have moral and ideals which is more than i can say for most of todays disolusioned youth....

[Napalm Dust]

I'm sure you've got a point about some people wanting to be different. And I'm sure some people would change their views after living under a communist rule.
I cannot vouch for anyone, but I support communism/socialism and going to live in Cuba for a year 2003-04.
When I come back I'll argue you point and see if I've changed my viewpoint.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Napalm Dust on 4:12 pm on July 11, 2002
I'm sure you've got a point about some people wanting to be different. And I'm sure some people would change their views after living under a communist rule.
I cannot vouch for anyone, but I support communism/socialism and going to live in Cuba for a year 2003-04.
When I come back I'll argue you point and see if I've changed my viewpoint.

Ok, thats fair

[Anonymous]

CI: if i ever set foot in USA it will be to spread havoc!!!!
I make no intencions to go to america! besides if i wanted to go to the most advanced (industrialised) country in the world i would go to switzerland!! Wake up CI America isnt the most industrialized country in the world! even Spain is more advanced that America!!!!!

[Guest]

thats right, we're post-industrial.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 6:09 pm on July 11, 2002
CI: if i ever set foot in USA it will be to spread havoc!!!!
I make no intencions to go to america! besides if i wanted to go to the most advanced (industrialised) country in the world i would go to switzerland!! Wake up CI America isnt the most industrialized country in the world! even Spain is more advanced that America!!!!!


OK, that was just plain ignorant.

[Capitalist Imperial]

In what manner are spain or switzerland more advanced than the USA?

Please give me something at least half-way legitimate.

[Red Revolution]

CI
The swedish people have a better economic system than the US (as it is growing faster than the US's, and they don't have bullshit capitalist scumy cheaters like enron and worldcom). Its true, its like the US have more industry and commerce than Britain yet the pound is stronger than the american dollar. + all of switzerland have digital TV. there is no terestrial - of course you didn't know that - it was probobly one of those things you can't know as national defense depends on it, or mabye they want you all to have the dillusion you are the best country in the world or something like that.

- Best regards RR

[Shyne]

you know what i find pretty damn funny...

you all complain how you dont have money and all that shit but most of you travel more then i do... most of you keep saying im going to live in europe for one year, etc... and how do you have money to use over there?

im just trying to find out how you people do it..

[RGacky3]

Sweeden, Norway, and Switzerland are all more advanced than the U$, and there all SOCIALIST.

Shyne, why don't you tie a noose around your sexist neak and jump off a desk and DIE, you sexist basterd.

[Brian]

I hate Idiots like CI,but I hate little commie pricks like most on this board.

[Moskitto]

In Switzerland everyone has guns. Thereofore by American ideas of freedom, Switzerland is freer than the US.

Also Switzerland is more democratic as it's political system involves direct democracy rather than representative democracy as in the US.

I'm going to live in Europe for a year as well, probably longer. No wait, I live here anyway.

[Brian]

Quote: from Napalm Dust on 4:12 pm on July 11, 2002
I'm sure you've got a point about some people wanting to be different. And I'm sure some people would change their views after living under a communist rule.
I cannot vouch for anyone, but I support communism/socialism and going to live in Cuba for a year 2003-04.
When I come back I'll argue you point and see if I've changed my viewpoint.
Are you coming back from Cuba in a box or raft?

(Edited by Brian at 4:26 pm on July 11, 2002)

[Lardlad95]

a raft would work better...or he could get into that damn us base and steal a chopper

[Anonymous]

American economy is nothing compared with some west countrys! dont forget that Europe invented America! and now with the euro and the EU America will be history cause the nerw world ordar is rising! (altghou i am against the new world order!)

[Stormin Norman]

-Europe invented America, huh? They did so much to support and nurture the idea of freedom and democracy.

-Again with the conspiracy theories Anarchist. They are getting to be a bit much, as I will have a hard time ever taking you seriously.

[Thine Stalin]

Actually, yeah they did, you based your entire constitution on the magna carte and your congress on parlaiment, don't act like it was your ingenious american indvidualism, europe built america, and when europeans decided it was simply too far away from england to allow the parlaiment to make its decisions, you had a revolution, wow amazing people aren't you? And then you show your great loyalty by supporting the french revolution, which was happening, because the french goverment being over thrown, had spent alot of money helping the 13 colonies and had to raise taxes because we could not pay the french back. How nice we support the beheading of louis XVI when it was our fault the revolution started. Fucking hypocrites.

[Super Xero]

In Reply to the First Post by the Dip Shit Cap:
Most Revolutionaries, Commies, were of/or are of Middle to Upper Class Origin. Che was, Ho was. To your statement we are kids, well, Kids are more dangerous then adults (brain capacity, imaganation). To your statement we enjoy the benefits of a Captialist System. In Guerrilla Warfare you are taught to use the enemy's weapons against them ;)

[Nickademus]

wow i can't believe i just went through all these posts....

to start. i'm 24 and i live in canada. my family is lower middle class and i'll admit that i'm glad they are at least that. i'm currently living in canada attempting to complete my education. the reason for that....to help others. i'm not in school so that when i'm done i'll be able to do a job that will make me $60,000 a year. in fact, the instant i get out of law school, i'm planning on spending a year in Uganada (not socialist/communist i know) to help children who are affected by the horrible civil war going on there. and to who ever it was that asked how we can afford to travel...i will be sent to Uganda. An incredible NGO will be sending me there, paying for my flight, accomodations etc. i will not be making any money while i'm there but all my expenses will be covered. i admit its a pretty good deal and i'm extremely excited about the opportunity to do something with my education (which incidentallly has put me $100,000 in debt).

and its irrelevant if we are going to move to a socialist/communist country. it is just as powerful to work within one's own country to help affect change. and don't give me that shit about it will neverf work, because educating people about socialism/communism is really the key. if people don't stay in canada, the USA etc. to inform people it will never happen. its imperative that people stay in these non-socialist countries.

and don't make comments about me being in law school because i'm not going to be practicing any of the 'traditionaal' areas of the law. i never want to write a will in my life, or to do corporate shit. i will be doing human rights and union side labour law.

and this is not a phase for many of us. i've been like this as long as i can remember (although admittedly i don't remember much before i was 16). my parents thought my peircings and tats were a phase.......they don't think so any longer.

and while a lot of people on this board are younger, i know lots of people who believe the same as me and are my age and older. many of us are very busy and don't always have time to be on a computer all the time. the only reason i'm here so much is because i'm an insomniac.

and about my pc...i'll admit, i have a laptop that i absolutely love. but you know, i have it to help me with my education......again so that i can help others. i have very few wordly possessions (other than shit loads of books and my bass guitar) and could give it all up tomorrow. i give stuff away all the time to people who need it. i recently gave away a $60.00 jacket because someone on the street was cold.

i think i'm going to stop for now

[Nickademus]

what no one has anything to respond? thine stalin? stormin norman? capitalist imperialist? shyne? american kid?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 10:21 pm on July 11, 2002
In Switzerland everyone has guns. Thereofore by American ideas of freedom, Switzerland is freer than the US.

Also Switzerland is more democratic as it's political system involves direct democracy rather than representative democracy as in the US.

I'm going to live in Europe for a year as well, probably longer. No wait, I live here anyway.


??? Everyone in the USA who wants them has guns too.

And our nation is comprised of state republics within an overall democracy, and is much too large and diverse to have direct democracy on all issues. Comparing the homogenized switzerland and its democracy to the much larger and diverse USA and its system is like comparing apples and oranges

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from the anarchist on 12:29 am on July 12, 2002
American economy is nothing compared with some west countrys!

WHAT?

Go learn world economic standings b4 u post here, or I won't even acknowledge any future posts from you.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 10:15 pm on July 11, 2002
Sweeden, Norway, and Switzerland are all more advanced than the U$, and there all SOCIALIST.



Incorrect, sir

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Red Revolution on 9:17 pm on July 11, 2002
CI
The swedish people have a better economic system than the US (as it is growing faster than the US's, and they don't have bullshit capitalist scumy cheaters like enron and worldcom). Its true, its like the US have more industry and commerce than Britain yet the pound is stronger than the american dollar. + all of switzerland have digital TV. there is no terestrial - of course you didn't know that - it was probobly one of those things you can't know as national defense depends on it, or mabye they want you all to have the dillusion you are the best country in the world or something like that.

- Best regards RR


"The swedish people have a better economic system than the US"

No, they don't, their per-capita gdp is not close to ours

"all of switzerland have digital TV."

No, not everyone in switzeland has a digital TV. Besides, that would not be an economic indicator of switzerlands economy

"pound is stronger than the american dollar."

No, its not.

"the dillusion you are the best country in the world or something like that."

#1 GDP, world's largest economy, #1 military, best technology, most industry, largest immigration, #1 in medal count at the last summer and winter olympics, % of college grads: 24%, world's highest proportion

Besides these and a myriad of other points, I guess it is just a delusion

[Hattori Hanzo]

yeah, cause you and your g8 friends screwed the rest of the world

[Moskitto]

"pound is stronger than the american dollar."

No, its not.

Yes it is, $1 = £0.60. Read a financial newspaper.

[Moskitto]

#1 in medal count at the last summer and winter olympics

The olympics isn't the be all end all of sport. I can name many sporting events that aren't in the olympics. Most of them the US is pretty shit at. Hmmm, explains something? Also even in olympic sports, the olympics are seen as a competition which has it's format geared to screw up the sport.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 7:53 pm on July 15, 2002

"pound is stronger than the american dollar."

No, its not.

Yes it is, $1 = £0.60. Read a financial newspaper.

Moskitto, I don't need a fianancial newspaper to understand basic economics.

1 pound is worth more than 1 dollar because the currency exchange rate is different, 1 pound represents a larger proportion of the UK total economy than $1.00 as a proportion of the US economy. That does mean the pound is "stronger" than the dollar. It means that 1 american dollar has a .60 exchange rate with 1 british pound. These are 2 totally different concepts. 1 pound has always been worth more than 1 dollar, but the UK economy is not as strong as the US economy.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 8:04 pm on July 15, 2002

#1 in medal count at the last summer and winter olympics

The olympics isn't the be all end all of sport. I can name many sporting events that aren't in the olympics. Most of them the US is pretty shit at. Hmmm, explains something? Also even in olympic sports, the olympics are seen as a competition which has it's format geared to screw up the sport.


Fine, you can have canoeing, dude. LOL,LOL

I just hope the harvard crew team doesn't split your hollowed out log in 2!!!

[Moskitto]

nope, it's carbon kevlar (bullet proof)

And has anyone else noticed that massive global sports like Rugby aren't in the olympics whereas sports played by 1 or 2 countries including the US like Baseball or Basketball are? I mean if they were trimming down the olympics like the paralympics most of the sports they'd get rid of are the ones the US wins medals in, because no one else cares about them.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 8:31 pm on July 15, 2002
nope, it's carbon kevlar (bullet proof)

And has anyone else noticed that massive global sports like Rugby aren't in the olympics whereas sports played by 1 or 2 countries including the US like Baseball or Basketball are? I mean if they were trimming down the olympics like the paralympics most of the sports they'd get rid of are the ones the US wins medals in, because no one else cares about them.

No one else can compete

[Moskitto]

No one else cares about them though. Sure people play basketball in school, they go play for the school team. But do they play for a club? Nope, because most people are doing other sports like, soccer. Then baseball, that's just something you play for fun. It needs to much equipment. So no one cares. The sports the US is good at are the sports that no one else in the world cares about.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 9:40 pm on July 15, 2002
No one else cares about them though. Sure people play basketball in school, they go play for the school team. But do they play for a club? Nope, because most people are doing other sports like, soccer. Then baseball, that's just something you play for fun. It needs to much equipment. So no one cares. The sports the US is good at are the sports that no one else in the world cares about.

Many asian countries love baseball, and basketball is popular in many european countries and even russia.

What about track and field? And Hockey?

And the "World's Strongest Man" on espn (LOL)

[Moskitto]

Hockey? Yeah, US sucks at that, that's why Holland are the olympic champions and have been world Champions for the past, oooh, 9 years.

If of course you're talking about Ice Hockey. Then you'll discover that there's the NHL is where most ice hockey (Even Europeans) players play. Apart from Russia and a few ex-pat Canadian and Americans, no one in Europe really cares about ice hockey except every 4 years when they watch it on the olympics because it's interesting.

Basketball is not big in Europe. You have to hired somewhere to play basketball, unlike soccer where you don't. So more people play soccer.

Worlds Strongest Man sucks. That is if we are talking about the same "World's Strongest Man." You know the one with the huge 120kg+ Icelanders and Germans carrying big rocks in relay races. Boring.

But then you've got people over here moaning about themselves being too heavy. You have like Ledy Balciero, fastest man over 200m at 98kg, then you have Matt Lawrence moaning he's too heavy at 83kg. That could be my next project, plot sport performances against athlete weights to prove that bigger=better. I mean, come on, if you're 6'5 and weigh 73kg it doesn't take a genius to realise that you haven't got the strength to make the most of your height.

[Capitalist Imperial]

I agree with most of what you are saying, but There are some good european basketball leagues. The NBA even recruits from them.

How do I convert kg's to pounds? I'm to lazy to look it up right now.

[Moskitto]

76kg=12 stone.

It's the generally accepted opinion amoungst sports coaches in this country that British athletes are not powerful enough. This might be because the places that develop athletic skills also do not develop strength and vice versa leading to really powerful athletes (Dwain Chambers) or very skillful athletes (Mark Lewis-Francis) but not both it seems.

Also there's lots of small towns (like mine) which have very good sports clubs which produce gold, silver and bronze medal winning athletes (like myself) at national championship level. But they don't seem to be any inniciatives to link them with school P.E. lessons to encourage participation in sport by providing interesting sports to do instead of Soccer, Tennis or Track and Field all the time.

Also soccer coaching is geared towards developing "the team game" rather than developing individual brilliance like in Brazil where youngsters start off playing with heavier balls which don't bounce and are harder to control and play in smaller areas.

Basically, UK sport needs a rethink.

Edit: The US has had a good idea if what i've heard about NBC is true. From what I heard, NBC's main problem at the olympics was they didn't shows sports which the US wasn't good at so people could find about about how "the old country" was doing. In the UK on the other hand they show sports that we suck at all the time (Tennis) But don't show sports that we rule at very much (Rugby, Roller Hockey, Rowing, Canoeing.) So then people moan about British sport being crap.

(Edited by Moskitto at 1:13 am on July 16, 2002)

[Shyne]

The USA rules.

[suffianr]

I'm sure. (yawn)

The US (yawn) was the greatest (yawn) world superpower (yawn, slack jawed yawn) in the post Cold War decline that (yawn) is your subverted reality, and I'm sure all Americans (yawn) are allowed to brag about it whenever they (yawn) want to. Ah, where was I?

Oh yes, we were praising the US just (yawn) now, weren't we? Ah, we could go on for hours...but it's naptime now...

[Shyne]

^ goodnight

[Michael De Panama]

Eh heh. Pretty witty there, Shyne.

[PunkRawker677]

Why the hell isnt Billiards in the olympics (or is it?).. its so popular in the local billiard club (go figure).. so.. it should be a sport.. NOW.. maybe i could go to the olympics and get a hand-me-down dirty used five year old bronze metal that i find in a burger im eating between games..
-----

has anyone seen that "black widow" chinese woman who plays billiards? She kicks ass!! I wouldnt last three minutes in a game with her.. crazy stuff..

(Edited by PunkRawker677 at 6:43 am on July 16, 2002)

[RGacky3]

Quote: from Shyne on 1:57 am on July 16, 2002
The USA rules.


Ahhhhhh Why don't you die, why do sexist Idiotic Cappies like you exist, I have a strong earge to Kill you, you sexist Cappie Basterd, DIE DIE DIE HANG YOUR SELF.

[Michael De Panama]

Gacky, you put a lot more into MY death threat than you did with the capitalist's. Geez, I know you can do better than that.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 8:37 pm on July 16, 2002

Quote: from Shyne on 1:57 am on July 16, 2002
The USA rules.



Dude, go get a bean burrito from taco bell, and throw on the simpsons, you need to relax.

Ahhhhhh Why don't you die, why do sexist Idiotic Cappies like you exist, I have a strong earge to Kill you, you sexist Cappie Basterd, DIE DIE DIE HANG YOUR SELF.

[Moskitto]

I think praying should be in the olympics because more people go to church than watch soccer matches.

Then of course, there's sick, illegal sports which no one competes in (or admits to competing in) such as bench humping (mens singles, womens singles, mens doubles, womens doubles, mixed doubles.) although, that would stop people being able to eat anything.

No that's just gross, i'll shut up now.

[Guest]

Quote: from Moskitto on 10:21 pm on July 11, 2002
In Switzerland everyone has guns. Thereofore by American ideas of freedom, Switzerland is freer than the US.

Also Switzerland is more democratic as it's political system involves direct democracy rather than representative democracy as in the US.

I'm going to live in Europe for a year as well, probably longer. No wait, I live here anyway.


Also Switzerland gets rich by protecting the money and investments of the mafia and many terrorist organizations. Also, until receantly Switzerland granted many political asylums to international terrorists from Colombia and other places. Also Switzerland stayed with loads Gold and valuables from World War two that didn't belong to them. Switzerland sucks, its a haven for criminals.

[Guest]

Quote: from RGacky3 on 10:15 pm on July 11, 2002
Sweeden, Norway, and Switzerland are all more advanced than the U$, and there all SOCIALIST.

Shyne, why don't you tie a noose around your sexist neak and jump off a desk and DIE, you sexist basterd.


Hahahahaha what an ignorant jerk!
Get informed dude, Sweden is in serious economical trouble and unemployment skyrockets (as it does in most of Europe). I know because I lived there and travel there often. Norway is just lucky to have the World's highest per capita oil reserve, their economy is totally dependent on oil. And Switzerland are a bunch of crooks getting rich with the money of the mafia and terrorist organizations such as Farc.

[Hattori Hanzo]

i'm tired of this shit

[Hattori Hanzo]

Quote: from Hattori Hanzo on 7:37 pm on July 15, 2002
yeah, cause you and your g8 friends screwed the rest of the world

silence...

[Red Revolution]

Quote: from Guest on 8:59 pm on July 19, 2002

Quote: from RGacky3 on 10:15 pm on July 11, 2002
Sweeden, Norway, and Switzerland are all more advanced than the U$, and there all SOCIALIST.

Shyne, why don't you tie a noose around your sexist neak and jump off a desk and DIE, you sexist basterd.


Hahahahaha what an ignorant jerk!
Get informed dude, Sweden is in serious economical trouble and unemployment skyrockets (as it does in most of Europe). I know because I lived there and travel there often. Norway is just lucky to have the World's highest per capita oil reserve, their economy is totally dependent on oil. And Switzerland are a bunch of crooks getting rich with the money of the mafia and terrorist organizations such as Farc.



lol lol All that you just said was a load of rubbish wasn't it lol lol good story though.

Britain owns most north sea oil so most of the north sea oil is not belonging to norway. How the hell did you work out that the swiss were involved in the mafia?

[Guest]

not rubbish, these are facts.

Norway economy was even below the swedish one until they stated with the oil thing. Almost all of the money for the norwegian welfare comes from oil.

Also Switzerland has a very secretive banking system protected by their legislation that guarantees people who deposit that their identity cannot be revealed. This has been used by all kinds of people around the World to hide the money from their illegal activities there. This is used also by rich unscrupulous people around the World to hide their money there and not pay their local country taxes.

It is also a fact that terrorist organizations such as Farc have millions in bank accounts in Switzerland. This has been denouncedon several occations by the US and Colombia, but Switzerland has consistently refused to close or block this accounts. Other individuals such as the president of Nigeria have billions in their personal accounts Switzerland while the people of his country starve. The russian and italian mafia have quite a bit of money invested in Switzerland and Monaco.

[Severwright]

Red Revolution looks like you got told

[Radikkal Rebel]

i strongly disagree with you. I am a commuinst because i beleive in its concept. Capitalism only works for the elite few the rest are either poor,homeless,or exploited and get no recognition forhardwork. in commuinsm everyone will be equal and it promotes working together for a common good, unlike the brutallity ofcapitalism that no amerikan seem to want to realize. and dont assumethat u knowme ok u fucking cappie. i dont follow the crwd, te maority of people i know dont even fucking know thie own names let alone what ther political opinions are

[Ernesto Guevara]

I just read this whole thread and all Capitalist Imperial has been doin is sayin LOL like a five year old and dissin and disagreein wit evryone who isnt on America's side.

And, what is this bullshit that America is a more developed country than Switzerland. Switzerland has no homeless people, people's average GDP is almost twice the amount of America's, and even if Switzerland is a haven for criminals, are you trying to tell me America isnt. Drug dealing profits are extremly high in america.
And except for schools, Switzerland is mostly non-corrupt.

[Guest]

America is no haven for criminals. Of course there are criminals in America as there are everywhere else, but if they see them they catch them and punish them. They don't just ignore them and protect them and their money.

And are you trying to say that America benefits from drug dealing profits? Ha! Where do you think the money for drug dealings come from in the first place? Billions of dollars escape from the USA to LatinAmerica for the drug trafficking, the USA isn't precisely benefiting from it. Not to mention the detrimental effects drugs have on any society.

Switzerland more developed than the US? I don't think so. Maybe in watches and army knifes. In what to the economy respects, there are many obscure factors that make money into Switzerland flow, it has nothing to do with socialism at all. And also lets not forget that Switzerland is a small, pretty much unimportant country in a political sense, they don't have to spend billions in military spending as the US does, they don't really have a NASA to support to or a homeland security to be very much concerned about.
And no homeless in Switzerland!, ha now I am laughing, go tell that to someone that does not know Switzerland very well.

[peaccenicked]

The United States is not a monolith. They certainly not
all war crazed greedy morons posting crap on the internet.

[Stormin Norman]

1kg = 2.2lbs

1N = 0.22lbs where g = 9.8m/s^2

[marxistdisciple]

I couldn't be bothered to 18 pages of drivel. IT's a really really poor argument to say if you don't believe in a political system you should go to a different country. Firstly, moving to a different country is an incredibly difficult thing to do, something xenophobic americans wouldn't understand. Most people don't have the means anyway, even if they wanted to (it costs a lot of money suffice to say.) You move away from your friends your family, everyone you know? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't believe in capitalism either, there are things I like about the country I live in, and things I hate. So should I move country? Isn't that the cowards way out? Of course it is, if I am any lefty worth my salt I will make sure I use my "democratic" influence to change the country I live in. that's what democracy is supposed to be about! Don't you get it?? If my posisition and everyone elses has absolutely no sway on the system, then we don't live in a democracy, it's that simple.

When the workers went out to strike on wednesday, and the government ignored it, that made me feel deeply angry. Not because I am a lefty moron, or because my views are less valid than anyone elses etc etc. but because I could finally see that 750 THOUSAND people marching and striking has absolutely no influence on a dictatorship government. that's what it's about CI. We can't change things. thats what makes us so damn angry, no one gives a shit about OUR opinions, because they are different from an ignorant majorities.

I put this to you, is someone's opinion who has bothered to read books, and web sites and find out about a political system, more or less valid than someone who knows nothing about it? Would peoples views change greatly if they had the information available, and unbiased in the education system?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Ernesto Guevara on 2:01 am on July 20, 2002
I just read this whole thread and all Capitalist Imperial has been doin is sayin LOL like a five year old and dissin and disagreein wit evryone who isnt on America's side.

And, what is this bullshit that America is a more developed country than Switzerland. Switzerland has no homeless people, people's average GDP is almost twice the amount of America's, and even if Switzerland is a haven for criminals, are you trying to tell me America isnt. Drug dealing profits are extremly high in america.
And except for schools, Switzerland is mostly non-corrupt.


per person gdp? what is their total populatin? Look at overall gdp, % of college grads, technological proficience, industrialization

please,, even most communists, assuming they are 1/2- way educated, will conede that the US is the worlds most advanced nation, bar none

[Guest]

Top 20 Economies Ranked by Real 1997 GDP (Billions of 1995 U.S. $) 1997

United States $7,815.77
Japan $5,390.59
Germany $2,502.85
France $1,595.26
United Kingdom $1,172.53
Italy $1,111.69
China $828.02
Brazil $778.90
Canada $611.27
Spain $591.65
Korea $515.53
Netherlands $424.30
Australia $377.81
India $364.45
Russia $340.50
Mexico $322.63
Argentina $318.13
Switzerland $309.71
Taiwan $293.57
Belgium $285.37

[Guest]

Even on a per capita GDP basis, the United States is at the top of the list (second) with a per capita GDP of $35,831. The first country in the list is of course Luxemburg (very small population) with a per capita GDP just slightly higher of 35,894. Switzerland is actually on the 6th place, with a per capita GDP of $28,421.
I cannot seem to copy paste the table, but anyway these are results as of July 1st, 2002. You can find the complete list at http://www.mrdowling.com/800gdppercapita.html
and on the CIA World Factbook.

I think if you commies and socialists want to be at least half fair, you have to recognize the success of the USA. It has produced an amount of wealth unprecedented in history and is responsible for most of the inventions that have revolutionized our World in the past 150 years. Yes nations like Monaco can be also high on a per capita GDP, but that doesn't mean that they are more industrious nor that they produce more goods than other countries. It just means their population is small and they do a good job in bringing wealthy people (and their money) from other countries in. On their own, they don't produce much and are unsustainable.

[Red Revolution]

Guest
I would like to say that your info is out of date going by the GDP as Britain is now 4th.
also the US have only revolutionized the world forthe last 50 years. Before that it was Britain and the who also did pretty revolutionary stuff like invented trains. Built first steel bridges. Had a vast empire (not good in my point of view), had the worlds largest navy and defeated napoleoen amongst other things. Also the Spanish and french have done very revolutionary things aswell. So before you go preaching the U$ was and is the best ever country think again. But thats all they teach you in school isn't it?

[samaniego]

I at one point would have disagreed with you but now I think your right. I feel almost everyone in here is a fake, at least the Capitalist know what the fuck their doing[screwing over the world] but the lefty's here spend more time trying to get more post and move up in rank than trying to stop the cappies. Now this doesn't go for eveyone, just the commoners who are here every waking moment, claiming their fighting the evil cappie system of the world. This guys right your fakes. This site has so much potential and it's all going to waste, look at the topics we have in the Soc.vs Cap. section their weak, just like you guys. I think if Che was alive he would be embarrassed and angry that his name is being used on this site. He didn't just talk about revolution he did something about it, not like the common lefty's of che lives. So go ahead and say what you will but all your doing is nothing. So put up or shut up.

(Edited by samaniego at 9:20 pm on July 20, 2002)

[kingbee]

Quote: from Guest on 8:00 pm on July 20, 2002
I think if you commies and socialists want to be at least half fair, you have to recognize the success of the USA. It has produced an amount of wealth unprecedented in history and is responsible for most of the inventions that have revolutionized our World in the past 150 years. Yes nations like Monaco can be also high on a per capita GDP, but that doesn't mean that they are more industrious nor that they produce more goods than other countries. It just means their population is small and they do a good job in bringing wealthy people (and their money) from other countries in. On their own, they don't produce much and are unsustainable.


maybe the u$ has produced an unbelievble amount of wealth, but has done at the expense of other countries, which are living in extremely poor conditions. see all the oil producing countries. so what if they have produced so much money anyway? money is a man made device, and something that people fight for. freedom is what people should fight for. not a piece of paper printed by the state.
maybe the usa has also given the world new inventions, but capitalism depends on new inventions to survive. computer games and tv are ways of getting people to spend and therefore benefit the economy, not the people themselves

[Guest]

Kingbee, at the expense of no one. The US became strong economically even before it began actively trading with the outside World.
You socialists/commies are so incoherent. If the US openly trades with a country it is "exploiting it", and if it refuses to do so (as with Cuba) then it is to blame for whatever failure that country might have as well. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. You people don't understand a thing about economy and just need someone powerful to put all the blame too. Sure kingbee, if it wasn't for the US probably a lot of nations that now are poor would be incredibly wealthy ...right.

And money is a man made device, yes, so?, it is also a measure of the wealth and well being of the people. People should fight for freedom? sure, but they already have freedom, at least in capitalist societies. And money gives them even more freedom (to live where they want, travel where they want, etc, etc). In socialistic and communistic societies you don't have that freedom though, you are forced to share the wealth that you may produce with people that have not necessarily worked for it.

And who are you to say that Tvs and computer games don't benefit people? Just because you may not enjoy them doesn't mean it doesn't have value for others...
But you can keep playing with rocks if that makes you happy..
Capitalism doesn't depend on new inventions. Inventions make life more comfortable and enjoyable for people. That is independent of which political system you have. Although only capitalism actively facilitates the flow of money and resources to allow research and inventions to happen.

[kingbee]

Quote: from Guest on 4:54 am on July 22, 2002
Kingbee, at the expense of no one. The US became strong economically even before it began actively trading with the outside World.
You socialists/commies are so incoherent. If the US openly trades with a country it is "exploiting it", and if it refuses to do so (as with Cuba) then it is to blame for whatever failure that country might have as well. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. You people don't understand a thing about economy and just need someone powerful to put all the blame too. Sure kingbee, if it wasn't for the US probably a lot of nations that now are poor would be incredibly wealthy ...right.

And money is a man made device, yes, so?, it is also a measure of the wealth and well being of the people. People should fight for freedom? sure, but they already have freedom, at least in capitalist societies. And money gives them even more freedom (to live where they want, travel where they want, etc, etc). In socialistic and communistic societies you don't have that freedom though, you are forced to share the wealth that you may produce with people that have not necessarily worked for it.

And who are you to say that Tvs and computer games don't benefit people? Just because you may not enjoy them doesn't mean it doesn't have value for others...
But you can keep playing with rocks if that makes you happy..
Capitalism doesn't depend on new inventions. Inventions make life more comfortable and enjoyable for people. That is independent of which political system you have. Although only capitalism actively facilitates the flow of money and resources to allow research and inventions to happen.


i dont count any country that trades with the us as being exploited, nor did i give that impression.what im saying is that a lot of us companies do exploit the people in the oil producing countries. also, remember the united fruit company?

"United Fruit functioned in Guatemala as a state within a state. It owned the country's telephone and telegraph facilities, administered its only important Atlantic harbor, and monopolized its banana exports. A subsidiary of the company owned nearly every mile of railroad track in the country" william blum- killing hope- talking about guetamala

surely your own country should own its railways, and not a company from another country. when they tried to nationalise, the cia, after pressure from the united fruit company, installed a junta.

when you said that the us became rich before trading with the outside world, i thought you were right. then i thought: slavery- mild exploitation there perhaps?

"if it wasn't for the US probably a lot of nations that now are poor would be incredibly wealthy ...right."

im thinking that us companies go into many countries with commodities, set up business, then take the money from the profits back home. i didnt say they (the countries theyre in) would be incredibly wealthy, just better off.

"And who are you to say that Tvs and computer games don't benefit people? Just because you may not enjoy them doesn't mean it doesn't have value for others..."

i do enjoy them. didnt say i didnt. just i think that money could begoing into more beneficial things for everyone than tvs and computer games for the first world.


"Capitalism doesn't depend on new inventions."

ok, heres my point- if one thing is invented, say some consumer durable, people would buy it. once youve got one, then you dont need another. if nothing from today was invented, then the economy would be in chaos. no one would want to buy something if they already had it.

"Inventions make life more comfortable and enjoyable for people. That is independent of which political system you have. Although only capitalism actively facilitates the flow of money and resources to allow research and inventions to happen."
maybe they do make life more comfortable.maybe it is independent from a political system, but capitalism facilitates the flow of money to keep its money machine going. does any company go into business to make inventions to benefit others? no, to make money for themsleves.

"And money is a man made device, yes, so?, it is also a measure of the wealth and well being of the people"

didnt say it wasnt a measure of wealth. thats the fountain of wealth- money. it is also only a measure of well being in todays society. people in first world countries are going to have more money than those in the thirld world, no matter how hard the third world works. in my opinion, thats slightly unfair.




"People should fight for freedom? sure, but they already have freedom, at least in capitalist societies"

i dont think in all capitalist countries. how about the third world, military dictatorships, one party states?

"And money gives them even more freedom (to live where they want, travel where they want, etc, etc)"

thats the problem- the more money you seem to have, the more freedom. why should only the first world countries have freedom?

"In socialistic and communistic societies you don't have that freedom though, you are forced to share the wealth that you may produce with people that have not necessarily worked for it."

in an ideal communist society, most people wouldnt mind sharing their produce with others. they work between themselves, for eachother, not for their own benefit.

anyway, im off to play with my stones..


(Edited by kingbee at 9:13 pm on July 22, 2002)

[Guest]

Quote: from kingbee on 9:11 pm on July 22, 2002
i dont count any country that trades with the us as being exploited, nor did i give that impression.what im saying is that a lot of us companies do exploit the people in the oil producing countries. also, remember the united fruit company?

"United Fruit functioned in Guatemala as a state within a state. It owned the country's telephone and telegraph facilities, administered its only important Atlantic harbor, and monopolized its banana exports. A subsidiary of the company owned nearly every mile of railroad track in the country" william blum- killing hope- talking about guetamala

surely your own country should own its railways, and not a company from another country. when they tried to nationalise, the cia, after pressure from the united fruit company, installed a junta.

when you said that the us became rich before trading with the outside world, i thought you were right. then i thought: slavery- mild exploitation there perhaps?

"if it wasn't for the US probably a lot of nations that now are poor would be incredibly wealthy ...right."

im thinking that us companies go into many countries with commodities, set up business, then take the money from the profits back home. i didnt say they (the countries theyre in) would be incredibly wealthy, just better off.

"And who are you to say that Tvs and computer games don't benefit people? Just because you may not enjoy them doesn't mean it doesn't have value for others..."

i do enjoy them. didnt say i didnt. just i think that money could begoing into more beneficial things for everyone than tvs and computer games for the first world.


"Capitalism doesn't depend on new inventions."

ok, heres my point- if one thing is invented, say some consumer durable, people would buy it. once youve got one, then you dont need another. if nothing from today was invented, then the economy would be in chaos. no one would want to buy something if they already had it.

"Inventions make life more comfortable and enjoyable for people. That is independent of which political system you have. Although only capitalism actively facilitates the flow of money and resources to allow research and inventions to happen."
maybe they do make life more comfortable.maybe it is independent from a political system, but capitalism facilitates the flow of money to keep its money machine going. does any company go into business to make inventions to benefit others? no, to make money for themsleves.

"And money is a man made device, yes, so?, it is also a measure of the wealth and well being of the people"

didnt say it wasnt a measure of wealth. thats the fountain of wealth- money. it is also only a measure of well being in todays society. people in first world countries are going to have more money than those in the thirld world, no matter how hard the third world works. in my opinion, thats slightly unfair.




"People should fight for freedom? sure, but they already have freedom, at least in capitalist societies"

i dont think in all capitalist countries. how about the third world, military dictatorships, one party states?

"And money gives them even more freedom (to live where they want, travel where they want, etc, etc)"

thats the problem- the more money you seem to have, the more freedom. why should only the first world countries have freedom?

"In socialistic and communistic societies you don't have that freedom though, you are forced to share the wealth that you may produce with people that have not necessarily worked for it."

in an ideal communist society, most people wouldnt mind sharing their produce with others. they work between themselves, for eachother, not for their own benefit.

anyway, im off to play with my stones..

(Edited by kingbee at 9:13 pm on July 22, 2002)


Playing with your stones :) that's a funny one lol...

Ok about your first argument, I wouldn't say it is A LOT of US companies that "exploit the people in oil producing countries", I would say it is a few, if any.

I come from one of those oil producing countries, as you call it, I am from Colombia. There are quite a few American oil companies there. Although I would have to totally disagree with your view, these companies are not exploiting anyone. The employees they hire are REALLY well paid. Besides 60% of all the revenues go back to Colombia for social programs. They only are allowed to stay with 40% although the whole investement and infrastructure was built by them, Colombia didn't put a cent in the development of it. Colombia has been benefitted greatly from having those American oil companies there, because we don't have the technology and could not otherwise have extracted this oil (and we would probably have to import oil at great expense).

And what you say about slavery, slavery ended a long time ago in the United States. And anyway, lots of other countries have had slavery, fro example in Latin America. Brazil was filled with slaves, much more than the US was, but still Brazil never managed to developed because of very high levels of corruption.

You have to recognize that Americans must have done something right, very right. You just don't come to being a super power and the World leader for no reason. And I think trying to blame it now on slavery is weak.

And again, you argue that a lot of countries would be better of without the US. I highly doubt that as well. The US has helped many countries in their development process. Colombia would be a totally backwards country if it wasn't for all the help we've received from the US. Europe wouldn't have been able to recover from WW2 if it wasn't for all the aid the US sent at the time. The Japanese wouldn't have been able to evolve in the way they did because they wouldn't have had a market for their products nor anyone to copy products from. The US has given billions of dollars in aid to Africa.
I do think that the World would be a lot worse if it wasn't for the US.

"i do enjoy them. didnt say i didnt. just i think that money could begoing into more beneficial things for everyone than tvs and computer games for the first world."
more beneficial things like what? Entertainment is as important as anything else. What a boring life this would be if everybody were just focused on producing food and housing.

"maybe they do make life more comfortable.maybe it is independent from a political system, but capitalism facilitates the flow of money to keep its money machine going. does any company go into business to make inventions to benefit others? no, to make money for themsleves. "
So what? Who cares why they do it for as long as they do them? Stop trying to be so idealistic, people need real incentives to do things. And if the come up with an invention that makes life better for some people, let them be rewarded for it!

"in an ideal communist society, most people wouldnt mind sharing their produce with others. they work between themselves, for eachother, not for their own benefit."
Yes, in an "ideal" society that would be so, and there wouldn't be any crime either. But things are not ideal. This is the real world and people do not behave that way. It would be wonderful if they did, but they don't and that is why communism in real life doesn't work. Your views are very utopian and totally unrealistic I am afraid.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Good stuff, guest, good stuff

[Guest]

CI, thanks buddy :), just infecting a little truth over here!

[kingbee]

"Ok about your first argument, I wouldn't say it is A LOT of US companies that "exploit the people in oil producing countries", I would say it is a few, if any"
ok- i worded that wrong. the us itself is dependent on oil, and thus pressurises oil producing countries. if iraq didnt have any oil, do you think they would be attacking them? (or on the verge, whatever). maybe it does have bad human rights records, but so does saudi, one of the biggest oil producing countries, which the us is friends with. notice also that the coup in venezuela (oil producing) happened at thew time when the middle east was talking about reducing the amount of oil to sell to the us as a result of them supporting israel.

"And what you say about slavery, slavery ended a long time ago in the United States. And anyway, lots of other countries have had slavery, for example in Latin America. Brazil was filled with slaves, much more than the US was, but still Brazil never managed to developed because of very high levels of corruption"

Brazil was also under portugese rule until the decolonization in 1821. im thinking that most of the money returned to portugal.

"You have to recognize that Americans must have done something right, very right. You just don't come to being a super power and the World leader for no reason. And I think trying to blame it now on slavery is weak. "

i just dont think there should be a world superpower bullying other countries. and i dont think right is becoming a world superpower. oh, i also didnt pin the blame on slavery, only put it as a contributing factor. i think one of the reasons why the us became so rich was because it is so large, and has different climates, so various natural resources can be used (despite half of the us being former mexican territories seizied during the war between the two countries)

"And again, you argue that a lot of countries would be better of without the US. I highly doubt that as well. The US has helped many countries in their development process. Colombia would be a totally backwards country if it wasn't for all the help we've received from the US. Europe wouldn't have been able to recover from WW2 if it wasn't for all the aid the US sent at the time. The Japanese wouldn't have been able to evolve in the way they did because they wouldn't have had a market for their products nor anyone to copy products from. The US has given billions of dollars in aid to Africa.
I do think that the World would be a lot worse if it wasn't for the US. "

i just think that the money they give is a fraction of what is needed. if more money was given to the third world rather than spending billions on defence (from what i dont know), then food could be more evenly spread, saving famine, instead of keeping it in the forst world countries. im not an expert on columbia, and im certain you know more than me on that matter (with you living there and all), so i cant really comment on that. the point about helping japan recover from the war, well the us destroyed it using nukes anyway- they were just cleaning up their own damage. also, it saw japan as a country that could go communist, due to soviet, and later, chinese influences. maybe they helped them recover under their arms so not to make them go communist (not that im saying they would, only the us thought they might)

" "i do enjoy them. didnt say i didnt. just i think that money could begoing into more beneficial things for everyone than tvs and computer games for the first world."
more beneficial things like what? Entertainment is as important as anything else. What a boring life this would be if everybody were just focused on producing food and housing."

yes, ok, maybe you are right there. i just dont think that computer games are as necessary as other things.

"And if the come up with an invention that makes life better for some people, let them be rewarded for it!"

yes, ok. but i dont think people should win billions of dollars while others go hungry just because they made an invention.

"But things are not ideal. This is the real world and people do not behave that way. It would be wonderful if they did, but they don't and that is why communism in real life doesn't work."

you could also argue that capitalism doesnt work. 800 million hungry people.4 billion poor. 1 billion illiterate. maybe because people dont act that way is why the world is in a bit of a state. and anyway, you can always try to teach others to live better, not just leave them alone to attempt to gain more money.

"Your views are very utopian and totally unrealistic I am afraid."

and without goals the world would be shite. i could argue that your views are very boring and without ambition- but i wont because i think throwing arguments about the other person are shite.

didnt reply cos was on hols btw.

[Americana]

This Thread is too long.

[bluerev002]

pretty good thread though

[Brian]

Its true! Most of the people here are fake rich kids from the U.S or Canada.In about 12 years mostly 95% of these kids will be working in Wall Street.There just kids going throu a 'I wanna be differnent' faz, it will pass.

[Mazdak]

I wanna be different faz? That is BS. and brian shut up.

When did you make useful posts here? I dont recall a single one. You are full of shit man. I am sick of defending my credibility. I have stuck with communist/leftist beliefs always, as my parents/grandparents have. they were instilled into me.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 11:04 pm on Sep. 17, 2002
I wanna be different faz? That is BS. and brian shut up.

When did you make useful posts here? I dont recall a single one. You are full of shit man. I am sick of defending my credibility. I have stuck with communist/leftist beliefs always, as my parents/grandparents have. they were instilled into me.


First off Brian, fuck you. Just because you are a lonely little man who has a need to try and belittle others because he has no ideals of his own doesn't mean that I'm gonna sell out.

Second Mazdak you just killed any chance of yourself winning a religious arguement ever again.


Communist ideals were instilled in you by parents/granparents? And you condem those who had religion instilled in them?

Remember mazdak I never forget anything anything anyone says will appear in one of my arguements

[Anonymous]

Yup i am sick to tell them this yet they do not understend, you cappies dont defend nor need to know what your beliefs are, since all you have to do is blindly enter the stupid Buy, buy buy game! while we need to actually care for other people you only say "bah my Gov. will provide them whatever they need!" while we fake or not have our eyes wide opened for all gov. capitalçist bulshite and actually know what money and greed is doing to us and the world you yet think that money, a stupid dirty thing that as no value whatsoever, but the world gov. say its important so it really is for all people! i think this is pathetic but you cappies jsut love it don ya? while we fake or not really care fopr 3rd world countrys while you say "bah our nike factorys provide them work and payments (yesss 1 dolar a month is a very good payment!) and its all theuyr fault they are poor!" wile you still think the africa debt is not payd wyle most west counrtys sell big dirty bombs and guns to corrupted african goverments jsut so they can kill inocent people, i live under capitalism, it is alredy on my veigns! i grew up on a capitalist world were only the rpesent and the money counted, were only my personal life counted, were only what apeard on Tv was good wile the rest was just garbage, yes i grew up on the rich side of the world (not so rich as the great majority of other west world counrtys ) yes i am familirazed with labels and i sometimes use labeled clothes (although i dont have any nike/reebook clothes) and i have a litle care with teh clothes i wear, most of my clothes are manufacterd on west counrtys were i know they ofer bether condicions than in the 3 world countrys (for example some XDY (spanish label) products are manufactered on spain!) yet i am fully aware of the shit i am being fed with, i drink coke, yet thats becaue everytime i go to a *bar and ask a drink they give me drink like 7 up or coke, so think twice on acusing someone here of being fake ok? for i and most of other people i know here know what is wrong in the world and if living i a capitalist world and by taht having to live under theyr buy rules they live like other capitalists we are aware of the problems it cause and i shall not acept those kinds of stupidytys form you or any other cappie here for the stupid beings here are you!

[Mazdak]

SHIT.

Lardlad- the difference is, religion was also instilled in me froma young age(my father is religious, and goes to church every sunday). HAHAHA!

And, unlike religion, which is based on lies, they instilled TRUTH into my mind. And not much either. Most of them are rather liberal. They simpyl all support Fidel, who they taught me about. It was all me from there:)

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 12:35 am on Sep. 18, 2002
SHIT.

Lardlad- the difference is, religion was also instilled in me froma young age(my father is religious, and goes to church every sunday). HAHAHA!

And, unlike religion, which is based on lies, they instilled TRUTH into my mind. And not much either. Most of them are rather liberal. They simpyl all support Fidel, who they taught me about. It was all me from there:)


once again you have yet to prove that religion has no proof so you statement fails.

Though not going into a religious debate....

You are basing your statement on opinion alone

To CI capitalism is truth


To me Democratic Socialism is truth

to you Stalinism is truth (restraining laugh)

What ever it was it was instilled therefore you have no basis to condem the religious

[Pinko]

Opinions are opinions and beliefs are beliefs.
You cannot take either away from anyone without being an oppressive little git. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and belief.
We can try and change those opinions or beliefs through logical and reasoned debate.

Religious debate is pointless as anything but a mental exercise. There is no proof that one side can wave in the face of the other so it ends up being very circular.

[Mazdak]

Oh boy, Lardlad, not again, please, not again.

I didnt base it on opinion, i simply snuck my opinion in at the end.

[Lardlad95]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:36 am on Sep. 18, 2002
Oh boy, Lardlad, not again, please, not again.

I didnt base it on opinion, i simply snuck my opinion in at the end.


It was based on opinion you stated that you were speaking teh truth however its an opinion instilled into your mind like those religious people

both of you are in the same boat