Star Trek

[RHIZOMES]

Anyone here watch Star Trek?

The society which 23rd century humanity is in is an atheistic, altruistic communist society basically. Selfishness and capitalism is portrayed very negatively, as in the case of the Ferengi, which are basically a parody of capitalists. It'd seem like an ideal show communists and transhumanists would like.

[Lector Malibu]

I agree Star Trek has shown communist ideals throughout the series over the years.

[Die Neue Zeit]

As I said in OI, Star Trek depicts a petit-bourgeois utopia. There is a state, and there are petit-bourgeois "free" businesses (Joseph Sisko's restaurant).

Also, the Ferengi aren't a proper parody of the bourgeoisie, because capital is supposed to be indifferent towards gender and race. The Ferengi society, by discriminating against women, is in fact hindering further capital development.

[Dros]

As I said in OI, Star Trek depicts a petit-bourgeois utopia. There is a state, and there are petit-bourgeois "free" businesses (Joseph Sisko's restaurant).

I think we were talking about TNG. DS9 was different. And if you're gonna talk about Picard's plantation, I will tell you that he's not extracting surplus value.

Anyhow, I agree. TNG is more or less Communist/socialist.

And capitalism is still sexist and racist. Don't even pretend that because the Ferengi are racists or sexists they aren't symbolizing a capitalist society.

[Dystisis]

I like how the show tries to portray a future communistic or technocratic society.

However, you mentioned transhumanism... I feel the creators were too narrow minded in their thinking on that field. For example considering what we could do with nano-technology, dna altering, etc. Perhaps the series originates from before such research really kicked in.

[al8]

I watch it alot. And I don't agree to it being a petit-bourgeois paradise. The evidence for that is wholely circumstancial. References to "ownership" is never of a ownership for profit when in the bounds of the Federation. It is more likely that it refers to a different kind of ownership, one of enjoyment as in a hobby, or as in running a cultural facility. Although the storysetting is out in space in a military environment as opposed to a purely civilian one, it is clearly marked and conveied that capitalism is history. And instead there is some sort of advanced humanistic atheistic communist order where currency, wars, religion, profit, inequlity are a foreign concepts to society. It is only recognized as being parts of other alien cultures.

I was even watching a Voyager episode last night, 2 season episode 2 "Initiations" where Commander Chakotay says to a young Kazon Ogla; "My people taught me that a man does not own land, he doesn't own anything but the courage and loyalty of his heart."

But I admit that there is some abiguity as to exactly if it is a communist society. I think that owes to three things;
1. It would not be allowed air-time in most places if it where completly unabiguous about it being a communist society. (in addition to portrying it positively)
2. Script writers may be confused, or have disagreeing ideas as to Gene Roddenberies vison or how to convey it. Thus giving rise to the confusion.
3. Budget restraints.

Star Trek has often gotten away with critisizing current societal norms by relying on the conciderable abiguity of the story setting -- as something far away, not close. I think this is long discovered and therefore shows in the more recent Enterprise series. There the human species is shown as more reactionary and rarely give any insperation, or at least not to the same degree that the The Next Generation or Voyager do. Call it a conspiracy but I suspect the story setting of the Enterprise series in an earlier era was done in order to turn Star Trek's progressiveness down a notch.

[Kropotkin Has a Posse]

An early episode of TNG had people cryogenically frozen in the '80s brought back to life by the Enterprise. One was a capitalist stockbroker who was entirely dismayed to learn that the world of the 23rd century has no stock market or capitalism. He has no idea what the "incentive" is, so Picard exlains that it's all about more non-materialistic kinds of self-betterment.

That's one of the more explicit social critiques they did.

[Bastable]

Does this mean that there are a lot of communist ... nerds around?



p.s I too am a fan of Star Trek

[RHIZOMES]

Does this mean that there are a lot of communist ... nerds around?



p.s I too am a fan of Star Trek

I don't think a lot of Trekkies have made the connection.

[rocker935]

You shouldn't make that generalization, you may be right, but still. I personally don't watch it. But I do have a trekkie friend that has explained it to me, and i pretty much didin't believe him. lol.

[professorchaos]

Internet nerds tend to take the right-libertarian path. See; Ron Paul

[rocker935]

if we are going to continue generalizing then I will add that a lot of internet nerds only supported him for his social views, not economic. I would be willing to bet that most of the internet nerdz are economically left.

[RHIZOMES]

You shouldn't make that generalization, you may be right, but still. I personally don't watch it. But I do have a trekkie friend that has explained it to me, and i pretty much didin't believe him. lol.

I've seen enough Star Trek to know it isn't a generalization. :P

3 whole series and nearly a 4th, in fact.

[Bastable]

here's a thought, make our presence known next trekkie convention. We'll lure them in with dreams of making star trek a reality...

and when they realize it'll never happen in their lifetime it'll be too late, they'll already have been imprisoned for the cause, like Baader and Gramsci...

[al8]

An early episode of TNG had people cryogenically frozen in the '80s brought back to life by the Enterprise. One was a capitalist stockbroker who was entirely dismayed to learn that the world of the 23rd century has no stock market or capitalism. He has no idea what the "incentive" is, so Picard exlains that it's all about more non-materialistic kinds of self-betterment.

That's one of the more explicit social critiques they did.


I got interested so I found out that the episode is the last one in the 1 season of Star Trek; The Next Generation. That is; 26 episode "The Neutral Zone"

[RHIZOMES]

I got interested so I found out that the episode is the last one in the 1 season of Star Trek; The Next Generation. That is; 26 episode "The Neutral Zone"

I knew that off memory.

Goddamn I need a life.

[bcbm]

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html

Anti communist, but argues the case well. The Federation is "communist" in some regards but it certainly isn't a society worth living in.

[Janine Melnitz]

if we are going to continue generalizing then I will add that a lot of internet nerds only supported him for his social views, not economic. I would be willing to bet that most of the internet nerdz are economically left.

Ron Paul nerds either are right-wing or "have no opinion" on economics (the latter are, by virtue of their class position, still rightists by default). The rest of the nerds are "left" in the sense that they think universal health care is a good idea, but they're generally clueless (often willfully so) about what might be important to a non-white, non-middle class person.

I like a lot of nerdy shit, including Star Trek, but nerds exasperate me.