HEY LOOK! LENIN WAS A PIECE OF SHIT TOO! - Are ALL Commies A

[Apache]

1. When the Volga region is hit by a terrible famine in 1891, 21-year-old Vladimir refuses to help his sister's relief efforts, declaring coldly that famine is "a progressive factor" for the revolutionary cause.

2. Like most people who are indifferent to others' suffering, Lenin made sure to protect his own personal comfort. Even his sister observed that "Vladimir Ilich did not have the quality of self-sacrifice." When he was arrested by the Tsarist secret police and exiled to Siberia in 1897, his family paid for a comfortable train berth for the cold trip east, while his arrested comrades were left to make their own way, some on foot and in manacles. After arriving at his place of exile, Lenin rented a house, hired a 15-year-old serving girl, and enjoyed himself. "Everyone's found that I've grown fat over the summer, got a tan and now look completely like a Siberian," wrote Lenin to his family. "That's hunting and the life of the countryside for you!" Political prisoners under Lenin's rule would have a rather rockier time of it.

3. Lenin's approval of poison-gas attacks against Russian peasant population to put down dissent (they liked to eat).

4. Yet nothing revealed Lenin's character so vividly as these last two events. At the height of the famine, Lenin wrote hysterically to the politburo, in a passage not quoted by Service: "It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and merciless energy."

Lenin, as usual, when faced with human misery, could think only of political advantage.

[Mazdak]

The more desparate the poor get, the more willing they are to make drastic changes(like revolution)

[peaccenicked]

Book Review
Lenin: A Biography , by Robert Service
Harvard, 592 pages, $54.50


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lenin would have loathed this book. Not because Robert Service, a distinguished Oxford historian, has hacked and slashed his way through Lenin's private life, spreading allegations of drug abuse and sexual perversions. (He hasn't.) No, Lenin would have hated any biography. Like most modern dictators, he liked to pose as a humble servant of history, aloof from such bourgeois indulgences as autobiography. Of course, this also helped him to evade rather more important concerns -- morality, for instance, and even hard facts.

It's important to keep this in mind while reading Service's new biography of the Bolshevik revolutionary, born Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov. For Service suggests that the shroud of mystery surrounding Lenin's life was draped by the Soviet censor rather than by Lenin himself. The author boasts in his introduction that he was "fortunate to be in Moscow on the day when the central party archives were 'unsealed' ... and to use the new historical freedom." A dust jacket photo continues this theme, showing Service poised to enter the gloomy recesses of the former Party archives, a secret Lenin file under his arm. The result, he hopes, is "something that has hitherto been impossible to achieve: a biography."

This is ungenerous, to say the least. Among the most recent of many fine biographies is the magnificent, eccentric and unsurpassed volume by the late Russian general and historian, Dmitri Volkogonov, who had unfettered access to the archives. It has been condensed and available in English for over five years.

But Service's book is an unusually intimate portrait of a man who shunned intimacy. Born in 1870 in the sleepy Russian town of Simbirsk, Lenin was the third of six surviving children born to Ilya Ulyanov, a school inspector and hereditary nobleman. Service has unearthed some marvelous family accounts of Lenin's childhood. Testing out his trembling, infant legs, one-year-old Vladimir would inevitably "bang his head and raise a desperate roar throughout the house." His siblings recognized a "malicious aspect" to his behaviour: He once twisted the legs off a papier mache horse given to him for his birthday. On another occasion he "stamped over a collection of [his brother's] theatre posters," and grabbed his sister's "favourite ruler and snapped it in two." But wait, there's more: "On occasion," continues Service, "he ran into the hall in his muddy galoshes."

This is biography as it should be, preserving the grit and mundane reality of everyday life. Service has an unerring sense for the telling detail. Lenin was notoriously fastidious, scolding family members over half-sewn buttons or unpolished shoes. Before beginning his work day, he would buff up his desk; even in prison he polished his own cell floor. He "detested waste," writes Service, and when receiving "letters with blank spaces, he cut off and kept the unused parts." After quitting smoking, Lenin would theatrically open windows whenever a colleague dared to light up.

Even some familiar details from Lenin's life have the power to shock in Service's retelling. When the Volga region is hit by a terrible famine in 1891, 21-year-old Vladimir refuses to help his sister's relief efforts, declaring coldly that famine is "a progressive factor" for the revolutionary cause.

Meanwhile, as a young nobleman living off the income of his estates, Lenin insisted on prompt rent payments from the hungry peasants who worked his land.

And like most people who are indifferent to others' suffering, Lenin made sure to protect his own personal comfort. Even his sister observed that "Vladimir Ilich did not have the quality of self-sacrifice." When he was arrested by the Tsarist secret police and exiled to Siberia in 1897, his family paid for a comfortable train berth for the cold trip east, while his arrested comrades were left to make their own way, some on foot and in manacles. After arriving at his place of exile, Lenin rented a house, hired a 15-year-old serving girl, and enjoyed himself. "Everyone's found that I've grown fat over the summer, got a tan and now look completely like a Siberian," wrote Lenin to his family. "That's hunting and the life of the countryside for you!" Political prisoners under Lenin's rule would have a rather rockier time of it.

But Service seems to lose his way in the second half of this biography, as Lenin lays the foundation for the Soviet dictatorship. The drama and horror of early Soviet Russia is rendered in bloodless and rambling prose. In a chapter entitled "War Leader," Service somehow manages to avoid talking about the Civil War -- and Lenin's role in it. Lenin's approval of poison-gas attacks against Russian peasant rebels barely rates an aside. The famine of 1921, one of Europe's most terrible human catastrophes, gets a sentence. Lenin's brutal attack on the Russian Orthodox Church is treated in a single paragraph. Yet nothing revealed Lenin's character so vividly as these last two events. At the height of the famine, Lenin wrote hysterically to the politburo, in a passage not quoted by Service: "It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and merciless energy." Lenin, as usual, when faced with human misery, could think only of political advantage.

But archives rarely yield up such awful treasures, and Service's research proves this. For among 3,714 previously secret Lenin documents at the old party archives, Service gives an official citation for only one -- it is from the file he holds in his hand in the dust jacket photo, and it has been published in English at least twice already. (He quotes from the official Soviet edition of Lenin's writings well over a hundred times.) Despite historians' best efforts, Lenin remains as defiantly elusive in death as he was in life.


6 March 1998
The following is an exchange of letters between Chris Marsden of the Socialist Equality Party in Britain and the producers of the Timewatch TV documentary Lenin’s Secret Files, broadcast December 2, 1997 on BBC2.

The first letter, a protest against the historical falsifications contained in the film, was sent by Marsden last December 10 to the series editor Laurence Rees and the BBC Programme Complaints Unit. The producer of the documentary, William Cran, sent a reply to Marsden this past January. The final letter is Marsden’s response to Cran.

* * *

December 10, 1997
Laurence Rees
Commissioning editor, Timewatch
Television Centre
Wood Lane, Shepherds Bush
London, W12 7RJ

Dear Mr. Rees,

I am writing to condemn the Timewatch documentary Lenin's Secret Files for its falsification of historical fact and crude anticommunism.

The programme, broadcast on BBC2 on December 2, was allegedly based on material from the Lenin Archives in Moscow, which had been closed for the past 80 years.

The programme makers claimed they would provide a new and unique insight into one of the greatest personalities of the twentieth century. Instead they served up an undisguised piece of propaganda which, even by the usually low standards of such fare, was extremely crude. In commissioning it, BBC2 has abandoned any claim to scientific rigour in its approach to historical questions.

Soviet expert Robert Service spent weeks in the archives. He admitted that his aim was to present Lenin "in a new light—darker and more violent." This is hardly the basis for conducting objective historical research. It was Service's political prejudices that determined the programme's conclusions, and not anything revealed by the archives.

Not one shred of archival evidence was produced to substantiate the claim that Lenin was a violent, obsessive and disturbed man and the Russian Revolution was the product of his "diseased brain." Instead the viewer was asked to accept gross slanders as fact.

While the programme makers claimed to have insight into the state of Lenin's mind, not one reference was made to the over 40 volumes of his writings, which surely give a better indication of his thinking.

The case against Lenin hinged on such flimsy material as a call for 100 kulaks to be hung for withholding grain, as an example to others. The programme concluded that this proved Lenin was indifferent to human suffering.

It was not explained that the civil war resulted from the efforts of the counter-revolutionary armies and their imperialist backers to destroy the revolution through force of arms. As supporters of the counter-revolution, the rich peasant kulaks withheld grain as a means of starving the cities and preserving their profits. This was at a time when millions were dying of starvation, in what Lenin described as an "agonising famine." Lenin's concern was to overcome this truly terrible situation of mass human suffering that was also gripping the vast majority of the peasantry.

The atrocities committed by the White Armies were only acknowledged in order to claim, "atrocity begat atrocity … while millions perished Lenin continued to justify the Red Terror."

More is at stake, however, than a slanted interpretation of events. The programme descended into outright falsification.

Graphic film was used as evidence of the "Red Terror." An officer was shown posing beside severed heads, soldiers being shot by firing squad, their bodies falling into a freshly dug grave. "All this is terrible and certainly does change the image that had been hammered into our heads," said former Politburo member Aleksandr Yakovlev.

The truth is the opposite. Every film sequence used in the programme actually depicted the White Terror and not the Red.

The photo of the severed heads appears in the Yorkshire Television series and accompanying book Red Empire—the Forbidden History of the USSR, by Gwyneth Hughes and Simon Welfare. It is captioned in the book, "Officers under the command of White General Alexander Kolchak examine the spoils of war."

The classic documentary From Tsar to Lenin by Herman Axelbank utilises the same pictures of Red soldiers being killed by Kolchak's firing squads. The narrator explains, "Kolchak's army was capturing soviet soldiers by the thousands. 'Civil war has to be ruthless,' said Kolchak to his minister…. 'I give orders to my officers to shoot all communist prisoners.’"

In contrast, Leon Trotsky, then head of the Red Army and in charge of the defence of Petrograd, issued an order stating: "Woe to the unworthy soldier who raises his knife over a defenceless prisoner or deserter."

In their indecent haste to slander Lenin and the Bolsheviks, the programme's makers were indifferent to such details. Their political objective is clear—to present the Stalinist dictatorship as the necessary end product of the "bloody crimes" of the Bolshevik revolution.

The BBC, though hardly sympathetic to socialism, has in the past produced interesting and worthwhile programmes on history. Why, then, do they see fit to scrape the bottom of the barrel with this shoddy piece of work?

A comment made in the documentary provides an insight. Professor Vitaly Stasev states, "The course of political history would have been completely different if Lenin had succeeded in removing Stalin." This admission—damning from the standpoint of the programme makers and anticommunists in general—was passed over without comment or further illumination.

The documentary was forced, in its closing sections, to deal with Stalin's accession to power and the way he used the party apparatus to isolate the grievously ill Lenin. It also referred to "Lenin's Testament," in which he described Stalin as "too rude" and called for his removal as general secretary. Again there was no attempt to explain this, outside of noting Stalin's rudeness towards Lenin's wife Krupskaya.

It is a matter of historical record that at this time Lenin was becoming increasingly concerned at the growth of bureaucratism within the party and the state and forged an alliance with Leon Trotsky to fight it. The development of this struggle was only prevented by Lenin's death.

This is the real reason why the archives were kept closed for decades. They were not being protected from the Western powers, but from the Soviet people. The Stalinist bureaucracy were mortally afraid that unrestricted access to Lenin's work would demonstrate his opposition to Stalin and his support for a joint struggle with Trotsky.

It was not only the Stalinist bureaucracy that rested on the false equation of Leninism and Stalinism. For decades, capitalist politicians and anticommunist academics have maintained the same amalgam. Its purpose is to rubbish socialism and, especially following the collapse of the USSR, trumpet the superiority of the market system. With the opening of the archives the methods may have changed, but the aim remains the same.

It seems that the BBC is now intent on abandoning all standards of objectivity in furtherance of this campaign to proclaim the "death of socialism." It is up to discerning viewers, together with honest historians and intellectuals, to ensure they do not get away with this. A retraction and apology are clearly in order.

Yours sincerely,
Christopher Marsden,
for the Socialist Equality Party

[Xvall]

Yes Apache, We are born evil. Especially us Anarcho-Communist ones. I am the son of the devil Apache. Fear me! OoOOooO!

[The Ax]

Hey,
The fact that you think that people are BORN evil, or to a lesser extent are evil at all, shows how much of a scumfuck you really are.

The Ax

[Apache]

Quote: from The Ax on 12:53 am on June 27, 2002
Hey,
The fact that you think that people are BORN evil, or to a lesser extent are evil at all, shows how much of a scumfuck you really are.
The Ax

I don't hate you for being born a commie, I just think it is a genetic defect that maybe one day we can test for "The RED Gene" and abort fetuses that have it.
You would look good as a dismembered pile of bloody goo at the bottom of the trash can.
No, really you would.

[Angie]

Yes, yes, I was born evil. You're welcome to kiss my sexy ASIS file whenever you feel like it. My blood-red Commie star feels incredibly good rolled against the tongue, so I hear. :)

(Edited by Angie at 9:45 pm on June 27, 2002)

[Apache]

Quote: from Angie on 3:43 am on June 27, 2002
Yes, yes, I was born evil. You're welcome to kiss my sexy ASIS file whenever you feel like it. My blood-red Commie star feels incredibly good rolled against the tongue, so I hear. :)

Well if you put it that way Angie, I renounce al conservative views and wish to become a foot soldier in the war against liberty, I'm sorry I meant capitalism.

So, what are you doing Friday night? :)

[suffianr]

Evil? Why, thank you, sir. Can I strangle your grandmother, now?

[Child of Revolution]

Lenin Evil????????????????????????????????????

Shu' up JFK

[Mazdak]

Lenin wasnt some kind of monster either, what is this, first call stalin evil, now even lenin can't be left alone. Oh, and people aren't born evil, they simply become evil as they grow in and are influenced by capitalist politicians and media

[jimr]

Evil does not exist. It assumes that there is some sort of good which is held to be true by all. Of course this is not true. For each side, in any conflict, believes they are doing good.

I was not born a communist. if anything i was born a capitalist, I believe that everyone brought up in a capitalist society is indeed born a capitalist and only through education, and by that i mean true education, ie reading books not given to you by school, will you ever become communist.

I still don't understand why people keep replying to pathetic posts like this. It completely destroys the board. I don't mind talking with people that think differently from me but when they do it in such a way i get a little tired of talking. I really think that only capitalists that are willing to phrase their points in a more objective and calm manner should be allowed to post on this forum. Because it is causing most of the socialists on this board to get bored with this board (bwhaha excuse the pun) and it does not achieve anything. If we are serious about talking about issues then surely we should calm ourselves down and not scream at people obver the internet. Me screaming at some capitalist will not change that capitalists mind. Some capitalist screaming at me will not make me want to go and bow to good ole Dubya. This board is becoming increasingly childish especially this particular section.

[marxistdisciple]

I think a lot of people are not doing proper background to research their arguments. I was arguing a claim that most western clothes are manufactured abroad, and to prove me wrong a capitalist (i can't remember who) argued that his t-shirt from aberpostale USA, said "made in the USA." Strangely enough I have a couple of aberpostale tshirts I bought in the US in february...upon checking the label, i saw "assembled in mexico of US parts." This is not quite what he had said. Although I appreciate other people's sides to the argument, and people having different beliefs, I don't think lying really helps keep debate objective. I like to see people's sources when they make radical statements of so called "fact."

The source of the information is another important aspect to it's accuracy. When a historian goes into research expecting to find information to make lenin look like a nasty guy, he will generally only quote the bits that show him in a bad light. No one is born evil which has been pointed out before. People are not predisposed to whatever "evil" is considered. Obviously stalin did not consider murdering millions of people evil, or he wouldn't have done it. There is no basis for genetic "evil" scientifically either as the over-inflated apache tried to point out. In fact, most all scientists believe such things as political belief are governed by the environment we live in. To work around our opinions and pre-conceived ideas, you MUST research your arguments properly. If an argument is not based on direct evidence (i.e. experienced yourself) then is most likely tainted at some point in the source. Although this is difficult to achieve, I am getting sick of people talking random, opinionated drivel that has no basis in actual fact. The truth is not subjective, it is what actually happened. It is what we derive from that that is opinion.

I wouldn't like to throw it on the capitalists entirely, both sides have a tendancy to dump obviously inaccurate propoganda on us, but the capitalists seem to do it when they run out of factual arguments. So please stop doing it, whoever does.


Rant over :)

[Xvall]

Quote: from Apache on 9:01 am on June 27, 2002

Quote: from The Ax on 12:53 am on June 27, 2002
Hey,
The fact that you think that people are BORN evil, or to a lesser extent are evil at all, shows how much of a scumfuck you really are.
The Ax

I don't hate you for being born a commie, I just think it is a genetic defect that maybe one day we can test for "The RED Gene" and abort fetuses that have it.
You would look good as a dismembered pile of bloody goo at the bottom of the trash can.
No, really you would.


Yeah apache! If we could do that, we could have stopped socialists and communists like Pablo Picasso and Albert Einstien from being born! We'll have no more Geroge Orwell to deal with, and no Sinclair either!

[American Kid]

Jimr, evil does exist. Turn off your brain for a second.

Woody Allen says in "Annie Hall": "It's one thing about intellectuals, they prove you can be absolutely brilliant yet still have no idea what's going on."

Now granted, Woody likes to take pictures of his teenaged step-children---- but that doesn't make it any less true.

The guy that beats his wife because she burns the steak tips:

You see, he WAS hungry, and she DID over cook his dinner. He works long and hard at his job, when he comes home, he expects a hot meal waiting for him. There wasn't. Well there was. But it was black and charred and didn't taste so good. So he beat the shit out of her. I suppose she had to learn. Otherwise it would happen again.

Right? According to his legitimate side of the argument, he's merely enforcing his mandate that he be fed at the end of the day, so as to replenish the essential vitamins and minerals and other nutrition he will need to sleep well and begin hearty and healthy his next work day the following morning. Physical reinforcement is paramount in order to help her fully realize that part of her daily functions is feeding the bread-winner to keep him well and sustained.

The cut on her lip will heal. The black eye will eventually de-swell and fade. A dentist can easily replace the lost tooth. She will get better, and in turn, learn. If the incident occurs again, similar stimuli will be introduced into the environment. I suppose you could brand this, "dialectical domesticsm."

An unfortunate domestic dispute easily understood and therefore condoned if examined from both angles. But not necessarily a product/result of any human evil.

But it is. It's something inside all of us. Even (maybe especially even) you, my warm-hearted socialist friend.

I agree though, let's keep the debate going here. Maturally

-AK

(Edited by American Kid at 9:10 pm on June 27, 2002)

[Moskitto]

Don't diss genetic defects, I've got one.

It's not a proper bad one though, Is just one of those crappy one's that's on the X chromasome and doesn't show unless there's a Y chromasome.

[Apache]

Quote: from Moskitto on 1:48 pm on June 27, 2002
Don't diss genetic defects, I've got one.

It's not a proper bad one though, Is just one of those crappy one's that's on the X chromasome and doesn't show unless there's a Y chromasome.

Are you color blind?

I'm sorry, regardless of what it is.

[El Brujo]

Well, looks like we have a fellow idiot from the CIA (Criminals In Action). Ive been itching to ask a criminal in action this for a long time: If your such "protectors of democracy" then why did you support FASCIST DICTATORS like Pinochet to oust DEMOCRATICAllY ELECTED socialist governments? It looks like your organization (as well as your government) is more concerned with the "enterprise and money-based society" part than the "freedom" part but you claim that you are actually fighting for freedom to not sound greedy and politically incorrect. Am I not right Apache?

[Xvall]

Yes, refrain from 'dissing' genetic defects. I have Touretts Syndrome.. It's annoying the crap out of me..

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 12:20 am on June 28, 2002
Yes, refrain from 'dissing' genetic defects. I have Touretts Syndrome.. It's annoying the crap out of me..

No wonder you're always lashing out at me! (J/K)

[Xvall]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 12:33 am on June 28, 2002
[quote]

No wonder you're always lashing out at me! (J/K)

Actually, now that you mention it. It does affect my temper, and when I swear, that is most likely the reason.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Drake Dracoli on 12:42 am on June 28, 2002

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 12:33 am on June 28, 2002
[quote]

I thought that with tourrets, the swearing and outbursts were involuntary. It can actually sometimes be intensified by temper?
No wonder you're always lashing out at me! (J/K)

Actually, now that you mention it. It does affect my temper, and when I swear, that is most likely the reason.

[Mazdak]

Just like beauty, evil is in the eye of the beholder. NO one except the people in these corny comicbooks actually think they are doing evil. Hitler, i am sure did not think himself evil. However that means nothing. People are generally stupid and greedy, and this is why, it will take far to long for any kind of communist or anarchist movement to take of hold of the populace- those who will benefit are to stupid to know and those who havce the moeny and education to learn about these ideas hat ethem, as these ideas mean losing money.

In the end, it comes down to money. People will do literally anything for money.Look, in America we elected George BUSH and Ronal Reagan and The new idiot George "dubya" How can you say people aren't born greedy and prone to evil?

[Pythagoras]

LOL even Noam Chomsky called Lenin a proto-fascist. How many strikes did Lenin bust again? How many millions did Lenin himself starve to death? How many clergy did he thow in gulags? LOL this is someone who actually gassed the workers.

[Michael De Panama]

Quote: from Apache on 9:01 am on June 27, 2002
I don't hate you for being born a commie, I just think it is a genetic defect that maybe one day we can test for "The RED Gene" and abort fetuses that have it.
You would look good as a dismembered pile of bloody goo at the bottom of the trash can.
No, really you would.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! That's great.

Oh yeah, go ahead and insult the fuck out of Lenin. See what I care. Not all of us are Leninists, you know.

[Apache]

I'm not really singling OUT Lenin, but I posted this because many people seem to have this belief that he was this IDEAL and perfect communist leader.

[Stormin Norman]

In response to:

'Evil does not exist. It assumes that there is some sort of good which is held to be true by all. Of course this is not true. For each side, in any conflict, believes they are doing good.'

The person, who said that, is definitely a full-fledged communist. Marx himself was a relativist. He believed that men's perceptions and truth could be molded to accommodate whatever is fashionable at the time. If holding a belief in something is the only prerequisite for what is true, how then can you claim that you are interested in objective debate, Jimr? Relativists are the antithesis of anyone with an objective argument, because they can simply ignore the facts and maintain a belief. Hocus-pocus, the truth will then fade from their small minds, as they are only left with their perverted perceptions.
Orwell showed what a danger such philosophy can have in 1984. The state was actively changing history to suit its immediate needs. A far more dangerous manifestation of this philosophy can occur when brute force is used to impress one's will onto another man or society as a whole. Terrorism and propaganda are the tools by which a state authority shapes the perceptions of the masses. Chapter 6 of Hitler's "Mien Kampf" describes the purposes of state propaganda in great detail. Here are two quotes from that source, which accurately demonstrates my point:

‘The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous.’

‘The function of propaganda is, for example, not to weigh and ponder the rights of different people, but exclusively to emphasize the one right which it has set out to argue for. Its task is not to make an objective study of the truth, in so far as it favors the enemy, and then set it before the masses with academic fairness; its task is to serve our own right, always and unflinchingly.'

This describes another similarity between Marx and Hitler, and should make any communist second guess the nature of the system that they extol. Beware the man who says that truth is in the eye of they beholder, and claims that good and evil are subjective ideas, for one day he could be trying to sculpt your belief system with a pair of pliers.


(Edited by Stormin Norman at 4:04 am on June 30, 2002)

[Mazdak]

throwing clergy in the gulags... is that the best you can come up wiht?? come now, I thought Lenin was Evil, and this is the best u can come up wiht. YOu have to do better than this

[peaccenicked]

Lenin was not perfect, and only ideal in that he was honest. Most of the charges against are extremely dubious. Chomsky's 'reading' of Soviet history is completely tarnished by his roots in anarchism.

[Moskitto]

Are you color blind?

I'm sorry, regardless of what it is.


yeah, that would be the one. It's shit cos you get people going "ok you're doing these green races and not these red races" and i'm like "er, they're both green"

[Apache]

At least with Touretts Syndrome it is controllable with the right medication.
I wish you luck.

[Moskitto]

thanks.

[Angie]

So, what are you doing Friday night?What I do every night of the week, Pinky - try to take over the world! :biggrin:

[Child of Revolution]

excuse me, apaché.
Your mama is a dirty slut called peggy Thompson.
I'm sorry, but i am afraid, that you're a bastard.

[Child of Revolution]

...bastard

[Conghaileach]

from Angie
You're welcome to kiss my sexy ASIS file whenever you feel like it. My blood-red Commie star feels incredibly good rolled against the tongue, so I hear. :)

Very tempting offer, even for those of us also of the red persuasion. :cheesy:

[Revolution Hero]

Hey, Apache, if you say that Lenin was a piece of shit, then all of yours fucking usa presidents were even worse than shit.

Lenin was one of the great thinkers and leaders of the whole World History, no matter what those capitalist MFs say.

[Smoking Frog II]

Je m'agree.
You are all capitalist scumfucks [whats a scumfuck? It soundz rood.]
-----
El Frog

[Mazdak]

Bravo Revolutionary Hero!!

[Stormin Norman]

Another brilliant remark by Mazdak. What a rocket scientist.

[Jurhael]

You haven't proven to be much better, "Stormin' Norman", what with the same recycled arguments.

[Xvall]

You're back!

[Brian]

Drake is an idiot,I mean the man says Dictators are bad but leaders are and they guide you on what to do,Guiding you on what to do is the same shit as dictating.

I bets a shocker to drake thats gone many years without knowing that.

(Edited by Brian at 6:43 pm on July 14, 2002)

[Mazdak]

Stormin Normin, I am beginning to dislike you more than any single poster on this board. I didnt come here acting like a rocket scientist. I came here in search of better understanding leftist movements(not to mention comparing my views to the views of others). What do you want me to do, repeat word for word what revolutionary hero says just to please you. Stop whining. And stop being so friggin narrow minded. Just becauze someone has an opinion slightly different from yours doesn't mean they are stupid.

[new democracy]

i didn't knew about those acts. i heard that everything that stalin did lenin did too(except executions of other communists), but i never knew about this.

[Communist Chris]

This is pure bullshit. I want written proof that this is true. Fuck the capitalist bastard who wrote this crap!!

[Brian]

Quote: from Communist Chris on 11:21 pm on Oct. 17, 2002
This is pure bullshit. I want written proof that this is true. Fuck the capitalist bastard who wrote this crap!!

Communist Chris:An Idiot In The Making

[Mazdak]

Brian why do you care. You were one of the biggest wankers on the board until a few months ago. Then you stuppoed posting altogether. At least the guy doesnt hate communism.

[MaxB]

FUCK LENIN, STALIN, TROTSKY, CASTRO, MAO, CHE, AND THE REST OF ALL THE WORTHLESS-PARASITIC MARXISTS.

[Mazdak]

Fuck MaxB. Learn to argue you piece of shit apolitical bastard. All you do is spam.

[LeninCCCP]

Quote: from Apache on 2:40 am on June 29, 2002
I'm not really singling OUT Lenin, but I posted this because many people seem to have this belief that he was this IDEAL and perfect communist leader.

He was, so he did stupid things before he was a great leader that makes him bad? I dont think so...name one great "leader" who didnt do something stupid before he was in office. You cant so shut the fuck up you capitalist scum you can like the bottom of my boots you facist pig.

[MaxB]

Marxists are not born evil; they're just stupid.
Marxism is the religion of the irrational, fustrated, and failed.

[LeninCCCP]

your a stupid fucker dont ever post after me ill fucking kick your ass you capitalist scum asshole.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

To apache
In hard times. Hard measures are needed. In hard times, time is precious. So lenin could chose what to do in the small time. Helping family or a nation. And even if he would help his family it wouldnt be of durable. Cause of the rules and laws of that nation in that time. The family could easily been to made to slaves by Russian groudkeepers.So lenin wasnt only helping his family in a indirect way but also millions of ppl.
I wonder what u have to say on that!

[Solzhenitsyn]

1. When the Volga region is hit by a terrible famine in 1891, 21-year-old Vladimir refuses to help his sister's relief efforts, declaring coldly that famine is "a progressive factor" for the revolutionary cause.

Exactly, what a sick motherfucker that "Hereditary Nobleman Ulyanov" was. The faults of the Tsarist regime pale in comparison to the brutality and evil of Lenin and his cronies. The tsarist government actually tried to mitigate the effects of famine. The bolsheviks thought man-made famines were a peachy way to cleanse Russia of the undesirables, obtain cash for themselves and actually increased agricultural exports during the 1920-21 famine.


Cause of the rules and laws of that nation in that time. The family could easily been to made to slaves by Russian groudkeepers.

Nice try USSR, but serfdom had been abolished be Tsar Alexander II in 1861 (although consumable slavery would make an appearence during Soviet rule). Besides, Lenin was in his words an "hereditary nobleman" and actually recieved preferential treatment at one school because of this. He sure liked the high life also evidenced by his amazing collection of fine dachas.

[peaccenicked]

Solzy. You have been reading that liar Pipes again .

[Iepilei]

"if you cannot attack the thought, attack the thinker."

[Solzhenitsyn]

Iepilei,
Don't you think it odd that Communism claims to be the only pro-humanity political philosophy around when all it's leaders have slaughtered people by the millions?

Lenin talked and opined for a terror state and install one he did.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

To Solzhenitsyn
nice try dude!!
But......
In the Russia before 1917 the groundkeepers had the greatest power in the nation. And it wasnt unussual that they used there workers as slaves. (And even used them in gambling games as a kickoff) I hope you can imagine the anger of the Russian ppl and the rich ppl who supported them. So it wasnt a crazy id of Lenin to chose to help a nation instead of a familie. And there was slavery in the Russia before 1917. You are probaly talking about the Siberian working camps and the goelags. That was a sort of slavery but still the common man and women's live improved a lot. And now there were a few hunderd thousands slaves compared to the whole nation in 1917(except the rich ppl, wich were few) So what you are saying is just partly correct.
But still nice try!!Nice to meet some left politics in these times of Hard rightwinged regimes which are fighting "terrorism" and have to spend 50billion extra for these battle.

[Iepilei]

considering the fact that a communist nation has never been into effect, I'd say you're simply grabbing facts from air. i say this because communism is international, therefor a single nation couldn't pull it off.

but the socialism expressed in the Union is what, i assume you mean. i'm not sure where exactly you find this 'only humanitarian' claim - a source would be nice. regardless, the system is by far more people oriented than it's feudal or capitalistic ancestors. people will die as long as disputes exist. the best you can do is minimise these casualties of pointlessness.

however if you'd like to compare socialist atrocities to capitalist ones, you'd be rather short-changed to scrape many up - the united states have much on any socialist nation.

the US is a militaristic nation, hands down. they express power through force and presence. i'm suprised they don't teach their soldiers the 'goose-step' march, as it seems to get the point across quite well.

though deaths happen under any system, socialism offers the chance of success and happiness in life as it gives noone a 'head-start' and completely removes the power from a single individual. it represents a true democratic nation - one without a heirarchy. in that respect, it is by far more humanitarian.

[Solzhenitsyn]

What in the hell is a "groundkeeper"? Do you mean the titular nobility? If that's the case, then you're fucked because Lenin himself held a title.

[peaccenicked]

Solzy since when did Marx Engels Lenin Trotsky Maclean
Debs Connolly Luxemburg Adler Bukharin Marcuse Gramsci all kill millions . You are a lying sod.
The leaders Stalin Moa hardly practised communism, they merely paid lip service to it just the same way the present Turkish regime is paying lip service to democracy.