Cuba considers gay rights bill

[Sky]

This is a step in the right direction. Homosexuals and transgender persons deserve full equal rights and need to be drawn into the struggle for social and national liberation.



http://en.rian.ru/world/20080327/102363675.html

A draft gay rights bill first introduced after the 1959 Cuban revolution, will be considered by lawmakers in Havana in June, Mexican media said on Thursday.

If passed, the law will give lesbians, gays, transsexuals, transvestites and transgender persons the same rights as heterosexuals in Cuba paving the way for unions between same-sex couples, as well as access to sex reassignment treatment and hormone therapy for transsexuals, which would allow them to change their gender legally.

The media said citing Mariela Castro, the director of the governmental National Centre for Sex Education (CENESEX): "a relevant resolution will be signed in the nearest future by the Ministry of Health, which will determine the procedure for such surgery."

Castro, 45, daughter of current President Raul Castro and the niece of former leader Fidel Castro, has a degree in psychology and has campaigned for greater awareness for sexual minorities in Cuba for many years.

Fidel Castro, 81, announced on February 19 that he would step down as Cuba's president due to health problems. The leader of the 1959 Cuban Revolution, and the man who outlasted nine hostile U.S. presidents, still remains the head of the Communist Party.

Shortly after his election, Raul Castro said he was willing to introduce moderate economic reforms in Cuba, but insisted that he would not deviate from the path of socialism. The reforms may include making the government more efficient, revaluing the currency and lifting some state restrictions on private business.

[AGITprop]

Ugh.

I didn't even know this was still an issue.
Oh well, its good news. Now homosexual and trans gendered people will have the same rights in the market....

[spartan]

Its good that this is happening though i find it some what suspicious that you are suddenly saying that this is a good thing after you were critiscised by many for making very questionable remarks about homosexuality not so long ago.

[Lector Malibu]

It's nice to see Cuba doing this. I also agree with Spartan.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I wonder what the current legal situation is?

[Bud Struggle]

Castro, 45, daughter of current President Raul Castro and the niece of former leader Fidel Castro, has a degree in psychology and has campaigned for greater awareness for sexual minorities in Cuba for many years.

I wonder if anyone else in Cuba besides a "Castro" could make a decision?

[Lector Malibu]

I wonder if anyone else in Cuba besides a "Castro" could make a decision?

Tom I know you think Cuba is a horrible oppressive place., really though it is not what you make it out to be.

I'd be more concerned about your country, America witch has never catered to the needs of anyone, unless a few fat rich capitalist can gain profit from it.

[TC]

I wonder if anyone else in Cuba besides a "Castro" could make a decision?

No of course not, the Castro's make every decision themselves, personally. Everyone who goes to jail in Cuba was personally sentenced by a Castro, for a crime invented by a Castro, after being arrested by police officers who were personally supervised by the Castros, enacting arrest warrants signed by a Castro.

Thats not all though. The Castros also decide what gets taught in the state schools and which students advance to the next grades, after the Castros personally mark their exam papers. Every promotion in the civil service, education, medicine, or other state sector employment (which is, you know, all employment) is done by a Castro, personally, for being loyal to them. Needless to say, the budgets of every factory and every farm and every store are all personally decided by the Castros...just as the Castros plan the roads, water and electrical grids in every city and every town and every village, choosing which cement to use and which workers to lay it out.

Who decides where the stop signs and lights are placed on the streets? Yep, the Castros, they actually drive around and say "Comrade, put a stop sign here", thats how those decisions are made.

Thank god there are three of them!

[Green Dragon]

Tom I know you think Cuba is a horrible oppressive place., really though it is not what you make it out to be.

I'd be more concerned about your country, America witch has never catered to the needs of anyone, unless a few fat rich capitalist can gain profit from it.


Judging from some of the notes on these boards over the past few months, being "homophobic" seems about the worse crime which can be committed.

Except when its "our guys" and then the homophobia of the Cuban "Revolution" is excused.

The United States is far more advanced than Cuba in the subject, yet it gets no credit for being so.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

The United States is far more advanced than Cuba in the subject, yet it gets no credit for being so.
Looks as if 90% of the United States will be less progressive on this subject if/when gay rights are provided.


Except when its "our guys" and then the homophobia of the Cuban "Revolution" is excused. Nobody excused the actions taken against homosexuals; you're making up shit, per your usual self. We do think it's amusing that you're comparing the situation of a Latin American country to the United States - especially when lynching of homosexuals continued right up through the 50s and 60s in the South.

On the subject of homosexuality, Cuba has been one of the most progressive forces in the Latin American region. Colombian paramilitary units lined up homosexuals and shot them execution style right up through the 80s. Even Mexican courts prosecuted people based on outdated sodomy laws right up through the mid-90s.

Nice attempt, though. You're getting better.

[Lector Malibu]

Judging from some of the notes on these boards over the past few months, being "homophobic" seems about the worse crime which can be committed.

I would not say it is the worst. It is however bad and rampant through out the world. I know being in the homosexual department myself I take it very seriously.


Except when its "our guys" and then the homophobia of the Cuban "Revolution" is excused.

What a warped way of looking at that.


The United States is far more advanced than Cuba in the subject, yet it gets no credit for being so.

No, America remains as it has always been, a racist, homophobic, sexist, Christian morality backed nation with an imperialistic agenda.

[Bud Struggle]

Tom I know you think Cuba is a horrible oppressive place., really though it is not what you make it out to be.

I'd be more concerned about your country, America witch has never catered to the needs of anyone, unless a few fat rich capitalist can gain profit from it.

I actually go to Cuba a couple of times a year. I have a vacation house in the Florida Keys and we boat over to Havana for cigars when I run out, it takes about 6 hours to bet there. You just have to do lots of paperwork in the USA and Cuba, but nobody stops you from going. (Buying things there is a bit of an issue though.)

My opinion of the place is that it's a typical Latin American despotism, nothing better or worse than most other countries of the ilk. The people are poor, but overall pretty darn happy if they go along with the government. The same could be said about most other Carribean Islands.

There's a good deal of Black Market trading that goes on it's called "por la izquierda" "from the left"--of all things. People get along there OK. There's political oppression just like in almost every other country in the area.

I like the place--it's just that you Communists seem to make it out like it's some fantasyland of worker's freedoms and rights. It's not. It's just your typical third world country that's been ruled with an iron hand be a typical third world El Presidente (and family) that in this case just "happens" to call himself a Communist.

Actually, it's more repressive than its neighbors. People can't use the Internet (any Cubans on RevLeft?) Or cell phones. They can't eat in resteraunts that visitors or Communist Party eat in. They can't listen to any radio or TV programs they want. They have LOTS of rules that you and I would find rather restrictive. The people are wonderful, really and truly, but if you think they live in anything close to what you or I would consider "freedom" you are mistaken. The citizens are constantly looking over their sholders to see who is looking at them.

I have no ax to grind--I am seriously happy that homosexuals might get a chance at having equal rights. And FWIW, this wouldn't have happened EVER under Fidel.

[Lector Malibu]

I actually go to Cuba a couple of times a year. I have a vacation house in the Florida Keys and we boat over to Havana for cigars when I run out, it takes about 6 hours to bet there. You just have to do lots of paperwork in the USA and Cuba, but nobody stops you from going. (Buying things there is a bit of an issue though.)

My opinion of the place is that it's a typical Latin American despotism, nothing better or worse than most other countries of the ilk. The people are poor, but overall pretty darn happy if they go along with the government. The same could be said about most other Carribean Islands.

There's a good deal of Black Market trading that goes on it's called "por la izquierda" "from the left"--of all things. People get along there OK. There's political oppression just like in almost every other country in the area.

I like the place--it's just that you Communists seem to make it out like it's some fantasyland of worker's freedoms and rights. It's not. It's just your typical third world country that's been ruled with an iron hand be a typical third world El Presidente (and family) that in this case just "happens" to call himself a Communist.

Actually, it's more repressive than its neighbors. People can't use the Internet (any Cubans on RevLeft?) Or cell phones. They can't eat in resteraunts that visitors or Communist Party eat in. They can't listen to any radio or TV programs they want. They have LOTS of rules that you and I would find rather restrictive. The people are wonderful, really and truly, but if you think they live in anything close to what you or I would consider "freedom" you are mistaken. The citizens are constantly looking over their sholders to see who is looking at them.

I have no ax to grind--I am seriously happy that homosexuals might get a chance at having equal rights. And FWIW, this wouldn't have happened EVER under Fidel.

Tom

If Cuba is such a horrible place, why is it that Cuba has some of the best medical treatment in the world? Or superior educational standards in comparison to America? Your going on like Cuba is oppressive to it's people ,yet they provide for them in ways that far surpass the way America treats it's own citizens. This commitment to homosexuals just reaffirms that they are willing to provide for all their citizens. Something America has not done. The freedom debate on your end is silly. America has limited freedoms since the Bush administration took office on several levels. Yeah that's some American freedom you got there, either support the country blindly or be seen as a subversive terrorist and get thrown in a CIA blackspot. Good times for all.

[Green Dragon]

If Cuba is such a horrible place, why is it that Cuba has some of the best medical treatment in the world?

Yep. And Castro turned to Europe for HIS medical treatment.

[Green Dragon]

Nobody excused the actions taken against homosexuals;

Nobody said they did. I said nobody much CARED about its homophobia.

[Zurdito]

Nobody said they did. I said nobody much CARED about its homophobia.


OK let's start from the beginning. The USA ruling class makes a living exporting capital to the third world. Cuba's doesn't. Cuba was kept as a backwards third world state and a backwards society thanks to its position as a dumping ground for imperialist capital. Its people chose to fight that system, and for doing so have been placed under seige. Cuba is therefore still backwards economically and as a result socially - something the Castroists here will deny btw, but, that's beside the point. Therefore when the government resists attempts to economically re-colonise it, we support that, because it is imperialist capital which keeps the entire thrid world backwards.

On the other hand, profits flow into the US, not out of it. Its ruling class has much more material ability to create an advanced society than the Cuban government does. But it still seems pretty unable to do so, and wider US society is incredibly backward compared to the amount of wealth accumulated by its ruling class.

Finally, as the US ruling class exploits the entire third world, for people who support the liebration of humanity it is vital to support third world movements which resist this. Therefore in the constant war which the US wages on those who dare oppose its economic rape, we support those who resist, not those who wish to rape. Therefore we will constantly propagandise aginst the US government because it is the biggest enemy humanity faces today. Any true revolutionary will also criticise regimes like Cuba's whenever they oppress their population or take economic advantage of them, however, we would be compelte idiots to equate Cuba and the USA and abandon our duty to support Cuba's resistance to the ravenous empire sitting on its doorstep.

k, I hope that cleared things up. ;)

[Lector Malibu]

Yep. And Castro turned to Europe for HIS medical treatment.

No, a Spanish doctor flew into check up on him and actually there hasn't been much said about the issue publicly, So show me a link that shows Castro's surgery and where it took place in Europe.

Furthermore even if he did go to another surgeon. How does that take away from Cuba's advanced medical treatment?

Explain to me how America's medical practices are superior to Cuba's( in detail). And why free health care is a bad option to medical care you have to pay for.

[jake williams]

I like the place--it's just that you Communists seem to make it out like it's some fantasyland of worker's freedoms and rights. It's not. It's just your typical third world country that's been ruled with an iron hand be a typical third world El Presidente (and family) that in this case just "happens" to call himself a Communist.
Yes and no. "We" - it's a very generalized "we" but one, as a political minority, have to work hard for - shouldn't fantasize. Cuba is not a paradise of workers' control, of political freedom, of social freedom (gay rights issues a case in point). There's a hell of a lot wrong with it. Much of it is the responsibility of the government, and that's not acceptable, and leftists shouldn't accept that, Castro shouldn't accept it. We shouldn't wish it away and pretend it's not the case.

But with Cuba there's a whole lot of "It's all we have". Fidel's still our comrade and we're still his (again, it's a fumbly "we"). He's still fighting, they're still fighting, and we need that outpost whatever problems it might have, however insufficiently it fulfills any of our political wants and wishlists.

Fidel Castro doesn't just "happen" to call himself a Communist. It's far more nuanced than this. He is not a hardcore orthodox Marxist who absolutely and dedicatedly from birth puts into practice a detailed understanding of Marxist Communist theory. He's a guy who fought for the liberation of Cuba from the latest American-backed dictator and in the process picked up some Marxist ideas, and you have to say to some extent consequently did things like giving his citizens health care and shelter and education. It's mixed.

The comparison is useful though. You don't see Reaganite fascists running around massacring civilians so much as you do across the Gulf, or to the south. I like that.

[RHIZOMES]

This is a step in the right direction. Homosexuals and transgender persons deserve full equal rights and need to be drawn into the struggle for social and national liberation.

And yet you support Robert Mugabe. :laugh:

[Sky]

And yet you support Robert MugabeSo does Fidel Castro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38148000/jpg/_38148869_mufabecastro300.jpg

[spartan]

So does Fidel Castro

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38148000/jpg/_38148869_mufabecastro300.jpg

Well they both have something in common they are both homophobes.

Anyway meeting foreign heads of states or their representatives doesnt constitute support as otherwise Khrushchev and JFK would have been the best of friends.

[Sky]

Well they both have something in common they are both homophobes.Fidel Castro: I don't consider homosexuality to be a phenomenon of degeneration. I've always had a more rational approach, considering it to be one of the natural aspects and tendencies of human beings which should be respected. That's how I view it... I am absolutely opposed to any form of repression, contempt, scorn or discrimination with regard to homosexuals. That's what I think.

Cde Barciela said Zimbabwe and Cuba "have been working together since the days of the liberation struggle and after independence we continued to support the Zimbabwean people".
http://allafrica.com/stories/200707170018.html

[Bud Struggle]

Nobody said they did. I said nobody much CARED about its homophobia.


That's pretty true. It's not like there is a drive in Cuba to end discrimination for homosexuals that comes from the workers councils or the "soviets" (if indeed there are soviets in Cuba.)

The drive for equal rights comes from a first class, died in the wool, honest to God, real life PRINCESS! One just like Princess Di, except being a communist princess--she doesn't have a crown.

But she's the niece of the former "king" Fidel and the daughter of the grand duke, now king of Cuba--Raul.

All the little princess has to do is stamp her little foot and pout, "I want it Daddy!" and I'm sure she'll get her way.

All in all, Cuba is feudal, and so is most of South and Central America and Africa and lots of Asia. These country's leaders might call themselves "President for life" or whatever, but the power always remains in the hands of them and their families, just like kings. They also have a bunch of trusted families that support them--just like dukes and earls, but without the names.

I for one don't think that Communism or Capitalism are the default position of humanity--it's feudalism, and we have it all over the world--just with less ostentatious titles.

[Edit] This is taking nothing away from the homosexuals who indeed should get equal rights...

[Colonello Buendia]

not that I'm a big fan of Cuba, but Raul got democratically elected by the parliament, ths is a system I don't like but it could just as easily have been someone else.

[Bud Struggle]

not that I'm a big fan of Cuba, but Raul got democratically elected by the parliament, ths is a system I don't like but it could just as easily have been someone else.

Communist style elections:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/10/22/world/22china.600.jpg

[Green Dragon]

OK let's start from the beginning. The USA ruling class makes a living exporting capital to the third world. Cuba's doesn't. Cuba was kept as a backwards third world state and a backwards society thanks to its position as a dumping ground for imperialist capital. Its people chose to fight that system, and for doing so have been placed under seige. Cuba is therefore still backwards economically and as a result socially - something the Castroists here will deny btw, but, that's beside the point. Therefore when the government resists attempts to economically re-colonise it, we support that, because it is imperialist capital which keeps the entire thrid world backwards.

On the other hand, profits flow into the US, not out of it. Its ruling class has much more material ability to create an advanced society than the Cuban government does. But it still seems pretty unable to do so, and wider US society is incredibly backward compared to the amount of wealth accumulated by its ruling class.

Finally, as the US ruling class exploits the entire third world, for people who support the liebration of humanity it is vital to support third world movements which resist this. Therefore in the constant war which the US wages on those who dare oppose its economic rape, we support those who resist, not those who wish to rape. Therefore we will constantly propagandise aginst the US government because it is the biggest enemy humanity faces today. Any true revolutionary will also criticise regimes like Cuba's whenever they oppress their population or take economic advantage of them, however, we would be compelte idiots to equate Cuba and the USA and abandon our duty to support Cuba's resistance to the ravenous empire sitting on its doorstep.

k, I hope that cleared things up. ;)

Well, I stand corrected: I stated elsewhere I agreed that nobody (ie on the "Left") sought to excuse the homophobia of Castro and the Cuban Revolution (the most hillarious comment was the one that basically said homosexuals were not treated badly in Cuba, as they were not shot down in the streets like mad dogs).

But you have sought to excuse the homophobia by suggesting Cuba was socially backwards. This is of course absurd: Havana was the Paris or Berlin of the Carribean, Casinos, nightclubs, strip joints, shows, ruled the roost. Castro ended that sort of stuff. Meanwhile, Finland, where smiling in public was practically risque behavior, long ago legalised homosexual behavior.

[Andy Bowden]

Cuba and Finland both underwent very different stages of development. It'd be fairer and more accurate to compare Cuba's stance on homosexuality with the rest of the carribean and latin america.

Cuba's been making a continual process to accepting homosexuality since the late 70's when it was decriminalised - though still faced discriminations and other sanctions, which are now being challenged.

For example, the Cuban government funded a film on the island, the revolution and homosexuality called "Strawberries and Chocolate" which was critical of the revolutions attitude towards gays.

This is a marked difference from the kind of state sponsored films you would have seen in the Eastern Bloc for example.

There was also a Cuban soap - Dark Side of the Moon - that was released on Cuban TV a couple of years ago explicitly dealing with homosexuality.

So it has nothing to do with a "Princess" but an ongoing process of accepting homosexuality within Cuba.

[Green Dragon]

No, a Spanish doctor flew into check up on him and actually there hasn't been much said about the issue publicly, So show me a link that shows Castro's surgery and where it took place in Europe.


As I recall, Spain is in Europe. Castro preferred a physician ( a Gastroenterologist, I believe) trained in the capitalist west, as opposed to one trained in HIS country.

Of course, Castro can choose whatever doctor he wishes. Even doctors not trained in Cuba. Its his health after all, and its unrealistic to expect that HE would use himself as a propaganda piece for the advanced state of Cuban medicine.

But somehow I doubt that most other Cubans have the option of flying in foreign doctors for treatment. Even other Cubans needing the types of care Castro required. They have to rely upon those Cuban trained doctors that Castro himself, by his actions, declared not up to standard.




And why free health care is a bad option to medical care you have to pay for.


There is no such thing as "free" healthcare. Even in Cuba.

[Lector Malibu]

There is no such thing as "free" healthcare. Even in Cuba.


When you said he turned to Europe for health care, it sounded like you where saying he (Castro) went to Europe to get medical treatment.

I'm well aware Spain is in Europe.

You did not explain to me how America's health care is more advanced than Cuba's . Matter a fact you dodged the question all together.

How is Cuba's health care not free to it's citizens, if I'm wrong please explain it to me.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

There is no such thing as "free" healthcare. Even in Cuba.

There is no such thing as a "free capitalist market" either, but I digress...

[RGacky3]

You can tell how democratic a nation is by how much one persons opinion matters. If Cuba was truely democratic it would'nt make a difference if Castro was homophobic or not.

[Robert]

And why free health care is a bad option to medical care you have to pay for.

It's not a bad option. It's a great option. So is free housing, free transportation, free food, free electricity, and free clothing. Because housing, food, transportation, utilities and clothing are as essential as health care. So they should be just as free, if not more so.

Why do you suppose they aren't?

[RGacky3]

Why do you suppose they aren't?

Because a few people control them and use it to make a profit which translates to power.

[Awful Reality]

I wonder if anyone else in Cuba besides a "Castro" could make a decision?

The Castros are "gifted" by god, TomK.