If There Never Were Any Commie Govts? - Then What Government

[Apache]

What country came the closest to "True Communism"?
And why?

[Revolution Hero]

Definitely, USSR was moving towards reaching true communism. The main reason is that Soviet Union had a longer history and experience than any other socialist state.
Also, USSR was strong in it's economical development, but the last years of the Soviet existence showed the world how few men can destroy the great country.

[Apache]

What year or what leader do you think was the high water mark for USSR?

[Stormin Norman]

I submit that every communist regime, which is an oppressor of the people, accurately reflects the nature of 'true communism'. Marx, himself, believed that communism should be imposed on the population by force. Grant it, he stated that once all the provisions nessecary for a communist state were carried through; the political nature of the party would disappear and the capital would be place in the hands of the workers. It could be argued that Marx knew this to be a fallacy, yet perpetuated this fraud as a way to extinguish the right of all the people to own property, including ones own work or existence.
Where in the manifesto does it lay out a plan for the destruction of the violent regime needed to overthrow the status quo? Knowing the nature of such a movement and their leaders, how does one come to expect that these totalitarians would hand the power back to the people? This error in communist ideology is so evident that it seems reasonable to assume that it is a result of design. The nature of communism is to trick the people into backing such an immoral revolution, by promising them the fruits of their 'brother's' labor. Once the power has been transferred into the hands of the few, a violent campaign must be waged against the free-will of man. In effect, the populus would be reduced back to serfdom.

[Rob]

Yes, Marx believed in using force to achieve communism, however he believed that it should be the majority of the population that would control the force being used. So, Stormin Norman, your entire argument is based upon either a lie or a misassumption. And I believe that Marshal Tito's regime in Yugoslavia came the closest to true communism. He transferred much of the descision making power to workers' councils, which seems like a true Marxist action to me.

[Guest]

This is capitalist Imperial...

Either way, no one wants it. Emerging markets, as well as most 1st world nations, are capitalist and democratic, by choice.

[Xvall]

CI,
Hitler had a pretty 'free' market, but it sure as hell wasn't 'democratic'. And I don't think any coutnry has gotten very close, because there has yet to be a classless monyless society. The only thing I could think of would be some small tribes where the people work together collectively, without exchange of currency or a class system.

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 9:43 pm on June 22, 2002)

[Reuben]

I think the path supported by Marx was prettty much validated by the way the bourgoirsie and their state apparatus behaved when in chile Allende, using his democratic madate tried to influence change in a waythat would threaten bourgoir/imperialist interests. In chile, as in ASrbenz's guatamala when he tried to expropriate land, and currently in Chavez's venezuela, the bourgoirsie have shown a) the amount of power that they hold with no democratic mandate B) exactly how fart they and their institutions are prepared to allow democracy to extend. Thus revolution is necessary.

[Stormin Norman]

I make no missassumptions when it comes to Marxism. Yes, large support was needed for a revolutionary movement. The failure comes when, like all revolutionary movements, military leadership is formed. They become heros to the people, who deal them great power. During the Bolshevic Revolution, people were driven from their nice homes in order for these degenerates to live. In effect, the nations wealth was transferred into the hands of the few, being the military leadership and the political elite. This occurrance is common when a communist government illegitimately rises to power.

[Moskitto]

Closest governments to true communism? Pre Coup Grenada and Nicaragua.

[Mazdak]

USSR (collectivization) and Chile- however, Allende tried to pull that whole "legal marxism" thing which couldn't work. You cant convince someone by being nice to give up all their riches for the benefit of society.
Cuba has been trying but it is impossbile to create a communistic paradise when your neighbors are such pains in the asses

[peaccenicked]

No government has been anywhere near it. The conditions of communism require a superabundance of wealth and for the world to be democratic and cultured enough that it could be supervised by a lottery of all the citizens in the world. Funnily enough that was the way it was done in ancient Geece except slaves and women were not counted as citizens

[hXcPetey]

the sandinistas and also allende

[Fabi]

since i do not believe that any government can implement communist ideals i do not believe any country ever got anywhere near communism...

;)

[Apache]

Quote: from Fabi on 5:41 pm on June 23, 2002
since i do not believe that any government can implement communist ideals i do not believe any country ever got anywhere near communism... ;)

Should I put that down as a vote for Anarchy? :)

[Fabi]

yes, i am opposed to oppression and totalitarianism... ;)
but dont worry... i am very reasonable... usually. ;)

[Michael De Panama]

Communism can not purely exist in one country, as it's goal is to replace the global market. The proletariat has no nation.

[Apache]

Quote: from Michael De Panama on 5:59 pm on June 23, 2002
Communism can not purely exist in one country, as it's goal is to replace the global market. The proletariat has no nation.

In all honesty, I really don't see that happening anytime soon. But I digress...
Who do you think came closest so far?

[peaccenicked]

How close can tadpole become to being a fish?

[RedRevolutionary87]

well i think yugoslavia came very close, i speak from experiance, the country and living standards were one of the best in the world at them time, people didnt starve, and they had proper free healthcare, tito was a little totalitarian but he knew what he was doing, upon his death he requested a representaional governemnt where a rep from ever proving would be in charge for one mandate and they would always switch, however stupid slobodan hadd to usurp power.

[peaccenicked]

Communism is about ending word poverty.
Preventative medicine.
The ending of State power.
We should never be happy with any piecemeal national endeavour but that does not mean we should allow attacks on the living standards of working class people anywhere.