Is it wrong for me to not want to refer to myself as a marxist?

[bellyscratch]

I am a member of the SWP and have recently got into a debate with a fellow member as i refuse to call myself a marxist, trotskyist or any other 'ist' named after a single person. I just see it as a form of idolisation to be honest by refering to myself as a marxist, which i do not want to do.

I have alot of respect for marx and obviously am very influenced by his and many others ideas, but dont feel that i should have to refer to myself as a marxist to show this. I can simply do this by discussing his and others work and theories cant i?

My fellow SWP member sees me not refering to myself as a marxist is detremental to what we are trying to achieve as a party and am trying to be an individualist.

Am i wrong not to want to call myself as a marxist?

[Hit The North]

Calling yourself a Marxist doesn't equate with idolizing Karl Marx. It's a body of theory and practice which helps us steer a course away from reformism and maintain a commitment to workers revolution.

What do you want to call yourself?

[bellyscratch]

im just happy with saying im a socialist or a revolutionary socialist and i dont see why anyone has a problem with it and i dont feel that it would be detrminental to not call myself a marxist

[Hit The North]

Fair enough :)

[KC]

I don't see why it matters either way. Seems like a rather trivial thing to get so hung up on (for both you and the person criticizing you).

[wallflower]

Call yourself what you will, but Marx is the originator of the scientific discourse in which we are currently engaged, this ongoing critique of capital. In fact, I almost feel it safer to refer to oneself as a "Marxist" more so than a "socialist", for this very reason.

Yet it really is a triviality and I don't quite see how it matters one way or the next.

[MarxSchmarx]

Well, per my sig you are in good company:p

But zampano is correct. what matters is not what you label yourself, but whether or not you interpret class to be the fundamental basis for social analysis, and whether you are committed to the present working class as the key to our future, classless, liberatory society.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ One more qualification, and then you're right: whether or not you interpret production-based class to be...

[The liberal BS is, as you know, based on income.]

[bellyscratch]

I wasnt really getting that hung upon it until the other person started criticising me for it, he even said i was trying to be an anti-marxist at one point :s I was just trying to get other people opinions on it.

[RedAnarchist]

Marx himself didn't call himself a Marxist.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Marx himself didn't call himself a Marxist.
It would certainly be strange if he were to call himself a Marxist, don't you think?

[Marsella]

Karl: 'Hello, charmed to meet you, my name is Karl Marx'
Engels: 'Hello Mr Marx. I say dear chap, what ideology do you purport to?'
Karl: 'Why, I am a Marxist my good sir.'
Engels: 'By golly gosh! Have you no shame sir!'
Karl: 'Bourgeoisie individualism FTW my dear Engels!'
Engles: 'You Marxist ****!'

And so on and so forth.

[Hit The North]

Karl: 'Hello, charmed to meet you, my name is Karl Marx'
Engels: 'Hello Mr Marx. I say dear chap, what ideology do you purport to?'
Karl: 'Why, I am a Marxist my good sir.'
Engels: 'By golly gosh! Have you no shame sir!'
Karl: 'Bourgeoisie individualism FTW my dear Engels!'
Engles: 'You Marxist ****!'

And so on and so forth.

:laugh:

[Lensky1917]

I believe that I have seen this problem affecting many leftists. In the majority of countries, anything that is associated with the left is seen as a bad thing. There are many people who would like to earn society's approval, but they must not allow that to get in their way of doing what is right.

Why not just call yourself a communist?

[bezdomni]

Am i wrong not to want to call myself as a marxist?

No, because if you did it seems the only thing you would achieve is self-deception.

[RadioRaheem84]

I agree with Marx's analysis of capitalism but I surely do not agree with a lot of the solutions to capitalism he proposes. I am more of a social democrat with slight socialist leanings.

[F9]

Labeling has no meaning.Its your ideas that count and what you believe.

Fuserg9:star:

[Hit The North]

I agree with Marx's analysis of capitalism but I surely do not agree with a lot of the solutions to capitalism he proposes. I am more of a social democrat with slight socialist leanings.

Slight socialist leanings...

Does this mean you mainly lean towards capitalism? If so, you're probably on the wrong forum.

[Colonello Buendia]

Bellyscratch, it's not what you call your self but what you do that shows your commitment to your ideas and principles, whether they be Marxist or Bakuninist. Tell your comrade this or alternatively call him a uniformist wanker. either way you get you point across. You're in a Trotskyist party so you really shouldn't bother about not labelling yourself with the name of your chosen theorists you quite clearly agree with them.

[bellyscratch]

I agree with the majority of these comments. I know it doesnt really matter what i label myself, but i just prefer not to catergorize myself in the name of another person. There are alot of different theorists that influence my views from Marx, Trotsky, Luxemburg, Chomsky and so on. So i dont see why i should label myself after just one person or even label mysefl at all. I can easily explain my political views without doing this.

thanks everyone

[Awful Reality]

I am a member of the SWP and have recently got into a debate with a fellow member as i refuse to call myself a marxist, trotskyist or any other 'ist' named after a single person. I just see it as a form of idolisation to be honest by refering to myself as a marxist, which i do not want to do.

I have alot of respect for marx and obviously am very influenced by his and many others ideas, but dont feel that i should have to refer to myself as a marxist to show this. I can simply do this by discussing his and others work and theories cant i?

My fellow SWP member sees me not refering to myself as a marxist is detremental to what we are trying to achieve as a party and am trying to be an individualist.

Am i wrong not to want to call myself as a marxist?

Why do you care? I don't like to idolize Einstein, but I still refer to the element as Einsteinium. And what would you like to make it? I am sure it is named after something whatever it is, so therefore it's idolization!

Also, what's funny is that you have joined the Trotskyist group.

[bellyscratch]

But i dont call myself a Trotskyist.

[gilhyle]

I think the instinct behind your approach is not only not wrong...I think its healthy. What I thinkk is wrong with calling oneself a 'Marxist' or a 'Trotskyist' has an implication of the adequacy of the ideas of those men.....written 120 years and 70 years ago. Secondly, to take on all the ideas of those men without having read them all by labelling oneself an '....ist' is quite bizarre.

As far as I can make out the label 'Marxist' seems to have originated inthe first international and particularly in France, not being much used in Germany in the 1870s and 1880s. It became somethng very different after the Russian Revolution and really took off paradoxically with the developmen of a-political Western Marxism. It is not a usage that has a very honourable background. To my mind, it is a term that operates as an obstacle more than illuminates....and I say that as someone who hardly disagrees with anything Marx ever wrote.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ In my Chapter 1 "article" submission (WITBD), I talk about the vulnerabilities of ordinary Marxism. What about revolutionary Marxism / RevMarxism, which Lenin talked about in his rant against the renegade Kautsky ("We, the revolutionary Marxists...")? What about the intent of my avatar, too?