Monarchies - Who can support them?

[Moskitto]

I assume most of the Capitalists here are American so would probably agree with me. But in the middle of a Business studies exam I decided something about Monarchies such as those in existance in Great Britain.

Such Monarchies cannot be supported by either advocates to capitalism of communism.

The monarchy is contradictory to capitalism because the way I see it, capitalism is in theory a system where people are rewarded based upon their efforts. If you work hard you should get the most out of life, if you slack off, you shouldn't get very much. The monarchy on the other hand does nothing useful (even advocates of the Monarchy admit this) yet they are one of the worlds wealthiest families. There is a contradiction with capitalism.

The monarchy is contradictory to communism because communism is about the abolition of the class structure and of hereditary values. As the monarchy represents both the monarchy is also contradictory to communism.

Does anyone else agree with me?

[Michael De Panama]

I agree. However, capitalism and monarchy are very similar in the sense that one small minority rules over the majority because of some social power. In capitalism this social power is capital, of course. Those who are born in the rich American suburbs have the ability to live a wealthy life however they please, while those who are born poor, who could be far more compotent than a person born rich, are forced to serve the rich or to starve.

Marx made this sort of comparison in the begining of the Manifesto. Class struggle has existed throughout the ages, and each has lead to revolution. Capitalist democracy, which is actually a plutocracy, replaced the monarchial systems of the past. The communists strive towards true democracy.

[Power1]

I support the Monarchy.

They do a lot of work. They also attract a lot of tourism. It is better than having a corrupt president like France anyway.

[Moskitto]

You can get rid of a corrupt president, that's why they have impreachment. You can't get rid of a corrupt monarchy because they're power is based on devine right.

[Michael De Panama]

I'd like to have the ability to at least choose who corrupts me. That way, it's partly my fault. Besides, the only reason a corrupt leader gets into power in a capitalist democracy is because he has enough money to. Take that away and they are nothing but weak little insects.

[Engel866]

as a fellow britannian, i beg to differ with contradiction of these posts, i think the monarchy is actually a contribution rather then a differention.
with the largest and most successful registered charities in the entire world id have to say without milions would suffer.
And it also provides some of the simple folk to live up to, her jubilees are fun once in a while and it just fills in british history, take away the monarchy and none of the ancient structures would existant, infact without the monarchy in britain there wouldn't be a parliament or existing UK to begin with (hence united kingdoms, due to political and relationships between lords and ladies)
The monarchy is useless in power, but it supports the royal navy,marines,army and helps the poor who can't normally be helped
just give the queen some respect for once, shes old and she also has her face on our money :) which i enjoy spending
oh yeh capitalism involves consumers and suppliers, suppliers feed the consumers and the consumers feed the suppliers, britian would be dull as austria without a moanrchy

[Engel866]

come up with figures to back this up, but britian is the largest multiraced and socially balanced country in Europe, right now we're under a conservative rule who is doing a relatively good job at keeping it even, if you ever goto britiain you would find social classes are just nulled, unless of course it is to do with a load of posh people who happen to have inherited a family inventory, which is of course was passed down through generations

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

I hate consitutional monarchies. They help keep colonial England alive by linking former colonies with the queen.

[Moskitto]

Yes, I do happen to live in Britain. I believe that "Civil Service" and "Public Schools" mean nothing to you.

[marxistdisciple]

The class sytem is alive and well. That's why people who don't wear the right clothes, or have the right mobile phone (have you seen those embarassed by your phone ads?) get made to feel bad about it.
Of course, the richer people can afford all these trendy styles and new phones.

The monarchy is both bad and good, they do a lot of charity work (Well princess anne, diana did) but they do take a lot of money from the public too. They live in grandeur while other people are in poverty, and that annoys me. They also still believe that they were put into their position by divine right of god (which really annoys me) But then again, they create a lot of income with tourism too....it swings both ways, it's a hard argument.

[Apache]

Such Monarchies cannot be supported by either advocates to capitalism of communism.
I don't think that it is as cut and dried as that.
I think that part of it depends on if you have a constitutional monarchy or an absolute monarchy.
With an absolute monarchy you have no obligation to your subjects, while with a constitutional monarchy at least some form of minimum public representation is implied.
Now let's flip that on its head.
What if you had an absolute monarchy that held extreme leftist beliefs, like that of communism? They would have the ability to bring about the most "pure" form of communism possible by fiat.
No war, no suffering, no revolution.
Hummmm.
Perhaps the bloodless yet most complete way to Communism is through the diametric opposite system of government?
Interesting point.

(Edited by Apache at 6:05 pm on June 23, 2002)

[Stormin Norman]

What power does the royal family have, if any? Are they simply figure heads, for tabloids to fawn over? Do they serve any real purpose except for generating scandal? Is your royal family as useless as America's Kennedy family?

[Moskitto]

If your absolute monarch had extreme left-wing views then it is possible that they would be able to build true communism. However, they would also have to renounce their titles to make it true communism like other peers with extreme left-wing views such as the Duchess of Medina Sidonia in the early 90s. However, that is an interesting idea Apache.

The British royal family technically rules by devine right yet allows Parliament to rule for them. In theory the Queen can take power away from parliament, although if she did there would probably be a revolt (although many people might get duped into supporting the queen.)

What few people realise is actually how oppressive the UK is.

Republicans may not stand in parliament
The Queen may not be discussed in parliament
Policy is decided in commitees rather than parliament
MPs do not actually represent their constituencies because of "party whips"

[Stormin Norman]

Thanks for the information. I thought they were more or less figureheads that had no real power. It would be unrealistic for todays royalty to renounce the parlament's power, unless they had a king who was popular among the miliitary types. I would be real surprised if any of the upper echilon in Britain's military supported the royal family if such an event transpired.

(Edited by Stormin Norman at 9:46 am on June 25, 2002)