CUBA FORCES SOCIALISM - typical commie fare

[Capitalist Imperial]

By an 80%-20% vote, the people of cuba voted socialism "untouchable". Unfortunately, most of those votes were coerced or were cast out of fear of local officials. The cuban people live under a dictators regime,and their votes are cast from fear, not true democratic process!!!

[Mazdak]

Ok? So you are saying Bush is better??? the CIA is what? A postal service? IT IS SECRET POLICE oly with a nicer name. And people in Cuba love
Fidel because they know what it was like before and realize why things are the way they are

[IzmSchism]

ra ra ra....
I am glad for Cuba.
and Gore won Florida. But look at the outcome.

[Capitalist Imperial]

B.S.!!! Bush and the CIA do not force americans into voting a certain way!!! And the cuban people don't love fidel, they fear him! They won't speak against him out of fear of reprisal!

[Capitalist Imperial]

And bush won florida!!! Bush won florida!!! Bush won florida!!! Why do people continue to believe he didn't?? Besides, if Gore were president, osama and co. probably would have already taken over the white house!!!

[Mazdak]

HA? They didnt tamper with the voting???

fine believe that. And gore would have done the same exact things that Bush did.

Bush is a *****
Fidel is not

[Capitalist Imperial]

bush is a *****? fidel somehow is not? Bush actually has the legitimate support of his people, fidel does not, fidel is just clinging to power for his few more years because we let him. Just wait, soon, the US will take cuba and put an end to things once and for all!

[IzmSchism]

oh really? I am not in support of Gore and the Democrats just as much as the grand ol pubas, BUT! have you ever heard of the voting line, the imaginqary territory that exists for polling stations and candidate divisions within a state, evry year they change, I wonder why. Jeb. Anti Cuban exiles = Miami = Florida = 700,000 votes = Jeb = George. Play with any number and you can make it look appealing.

[Mazdak]

If it does, then the world will be without one of its greatest heroes. Bush seriously should be shot as a war criminal and he is probably one of the most despicable people to ever take office. Fidel has the support of the people. if he didnt, why iddnt they help in the Bay of Pigs invasion?? He actually walks amongst the people. U dont see hundreds of secret service anywhere around fidel, but bush...

that is a different story

[jimr]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 11:00 pm on June 18, 2002
B.S.!!! Bush and the CIA do not force americans into voting a certain way!!! And the cuban people don't love fidel, they fear him! They won't speak against him out of fear of reprisal!


And i suppose some cuban living in Cuba told you this?
It may very well be true, but if the US didnt oppose the Cuban regime, then they would be endorcing communism as a successful state which would probably trigger countless revolutions in other south american states.

Castro is a hero, he is one of teh people, he has earned his status, he has served his country amazingly considering the sanctions over the past years. In my opinion he is one of teh greatest ever leaders (feel free to argue with me)
just look at the facts, he has done what no south american president under capitalism has been able to do, and he has done it without billions upon billions of dollars in aid. he has done it with heavy sanctions emplaced. It is not hard to see why teh Cuban people COULD love fidel. However i have never been to Cuba, so i can not tell, but looking at the facts, and only teh facts, it is easy to see why Cuba would support fidel.

[Capitalist Imperial]

They didn't help at the bay of pigs because they were scared od castro! And i've seen fidel walk around, he has his henchmen with him, besides, its easy to walk around when your citizens can't own firearms!!! Hundred flee cuba for the US daily, the ones that stay do so out of utter fear, not support. We need to go to cuba and just put an end to one of the most dispicable villians in world history!!

[IzmSchism]

anyways, even if it is as you say it was, what is your point, and what is the difference between this election and the American one. If it was that close between the Democrats and Republicans what difference is there in party mandate? And what can you say about the millions and millions of dollars being pumped into the military and the power America has over every other nation to do what is in there best interest or else you are part of the evil axis, how do you explain the recent outbreak of right wing parties in Europe, Le Pen WHAT?!?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from IzmSchism on 11:23 pm on June 18, 2002
anyways, even if it is as you say it was, what is your point, and what is the difference between this election and the American one. If it was that close between the Democrats and Republicans what difference is there in party mandate? And what can you say about the millions and millions of dollars being pumped into the military and the power America has over every other nation to do what is in there best interest or else you are part of the evil axis, how do you explain the recent outbreak of right wing parties in Europe, Le Pen WHAT?!?

That is a general staement, the "axis of evil" was named such because of legitimate, specific reasons, and it only includes 3 nations. Bush is not saying that everyone is part of an "axis of evil". And the breakout of right wing politics is just the world coming to its senses and recognizing the best ideology

[Moskitto]

Tony Blair goes to the same church as my dads boss. People in Britain can't have guns and guess what? Blair still has his secret service cronies around him.

[Capitalist Imperial]

So does castro

[vox]

Published on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 by Agence France Presse

7.6 Million Cubans Sign on to Castro "Referendum" Backing Socialism


Some 7.6 million Cubans, representing more than 90 percent of the island's voting population, have signed on in support of a "populist referendum" to cement socialism into Cuba's constitution, official media announced.

President Fidel Castro had predicted that at least seven million of the nearly eight million Cubans above the minimum voting age of 16 would support the measure, which seeks to reinforce the "economic, political and social regime" that has been in place for 43 years in the Americas' only communist nation.

Full Article (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0618-06.htm)

vox

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from vox on 12:41 am on June 19, 2002


President Fidel Castro had predicted that at least seven million of the nearly eight million Cubans above the minimum voting age of 16 would support the measure, which seeks to reinforce the "economic, political and social regime" that has been in place for 43 years in the Americas' only communist nation.

Full Article (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0618-06.htm)

vox



Of course castro was confident, the Cuban people were coerced into voting for the referendum!!! They are terrified of reprisal from local officials if they didn't vote "a certain way". However, such violations of peoples' rights are par for the course in castro's regime.

[vox]

Source, please.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from vox on 12:59 am on June 19, 2002
Source, please.
Pure speculation

[Mazdak]

i''l have u know, i have relatives living in Cuba and they are quite happy their, they came here and their opinion of this country did not change, and they never tried to stay. They were happy to go back.

And to say the US should go and attack Cuba is proof of how the US cant mind its own damn business. This whoel shit with wiht the "axis of evil"- Why not name Great Britain? Why North Korea?

And i think the US should stop screwing with Iraq- Saddam is not exactly going to like being the target of assasination attempts and if he knows he will be killed, i am sure he is gonna use one of his biological weapons on the US(provided he has any).

[Capitalist Imperial]

In the current state of the USA after 9/11, it will be easier said than done to get a bio weapon from Iraq to the US. And if Saddam even tried it, we would turn bagdad into a parking lot.

[IzmSchism]

That is a general staement, the "axis of evil" was named such because of legitimate, specific reasons, and it only includes 3 nations. Bush is not saying that everyone is part of an "axis of evil". And the breakout of right wing politics is just the world coming to its senses and recognizing the best ideology

[/quote]

are they coming to there senses or are they hopping on the ol' ice cream truck to get some good licks' in on the ol' bush-sicle. Have you ever been to Cuba, do you know for sure that they were co-erced into voting in favour for socialism? are you full of bias? And by the way AMERICA FORCES CAPITALISM

(Edited by IzmSchism at 1:34 am on June 19, 2002)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from IzmSchism on 1:33 am on June 19, 2002
That is a general staement, the "axis of evil" was named such because of legitimate, specific reasons, and it only includes 3 nations. Bush is not saying that everyone is part of an "axis of evil". And the breakout of right wing politics is just the world coming to its senses and recognizing the best ideology



are they coming to there senses or are they hopping on the ol' ice cream truck to get some good licks' in on the ol' bush-sicle. Have you ever been to Cuba, do you know for sure that they were co-erced into voting in favour for socialism? are you full of bias? And by the way AMERICA FORCES CAPITALISM

(Edited by IzmSchism at 1:34 am on June 19, 2002)
[/quote]

BS, america forces capitalismis like saying the swiss force choclate, people want it anyway,it doesn't have to be forced!!!

[SU37]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 6:02 pm on June 18, 2002
And bush won florida!!! Bush won florida!!! Bush won florida!!! Why do people continue to believe he didn't?? Besides, if Gore were president, osama and co. probably would have already taken over the white house!!!
If you ask me Bush's answer to every thing is "war war war ",Bush is stupid but Gore was a little smarter.2000 elections...people really didn't have a choice, it was vote idiot or vote idiot.Gore and Bush were both idiots.

[IzmSchism]

okay if you dont think that Capitalism is forced into countries either by military coup, economic withdraw support or whatever, I am not even going to waste my time Bra, I can think of one continent, South America just for starters, Argentina, El Salvador and the assasination of Romero....the list goes on. People want it is BS!

[Mazdak]

And howabout Salvador Allende??

A man ELECTED by his people despite the CIA's tampering being killed and his country destroyed because why?? Because he was socialist. So the US doesnt force capitalism?? WHAT THE HELL WAS THE COLD WAR?????

[Guest]

Hey,

CUBANS are not afraid of voicing their opinions about politics! Fidel Castro is a revolutionary hero! FUCK OFF USA...I am CUBAN! LEAVE US ALONE!

[Guest]

Quote: from Mazdak on 2:11 am on June 19, 2002
And howabout Salvador Allende??

A man ELECTED by his people despite the CIA's tampering being killed and his country destroyed because why?? Because he was socialist. So the US doesnt force capitalism?? WHAT THE HELL WAS THE COLD WAR?????


Mazdak, the US doesn't give two shits about democracy, freedom, quality of life, etc.

There is only one control variable in interventions: an economic system not friendly to american capitalism.

[Guest]

CI,

do you honestly believe that the majority of cubans will vote against socialism? Why would a cuban with all of the services they get from the government wish to turn their country into another american puppet state like the rest of central america?

I can understand if the rich want to come back to florida, so they'll vote in a system that will allow them to do so, why would a normal cuban would not want socialism???

[concerned]

So much BS in this thread. Cuban prisons are full with political prisoners. Cubans are VERY afraid of voicing their opinions. The only cubans not afraid are maybe those who have managed to escape and are living on other countries (and their opinion as everybody knows are generally not very favorable of Castro's dictatorship).

Has anybody here heard about the Varela project? Many Cubans have been organizing to gather signatures to try to call for a referendum for free elections. However many of this signatures have been stolen, I wonder by whom...
Most of the cuban people seem to support this effort, however it will never trascend because Castro's oppresive regime would never allow anything like that to materialize.

And nobody is imposing capitalism on America. People in America are generally content with their living, people from other countries risk their lifes to come to the USA. This all happens for a reason that maybe beyond your socialist minds comprehension...

You cannot deny the FACTS, and that is that the USA has mass immigration and Cuba has mass emigration and people trying to leave...
These should give you a hint as to what people really want...

[Mazdak]

Ha! how come none of my relatives hate Cuba and they LIVE there? They have been here and they always go back, they dont try to stay and escape Casro's "evil dictatorship." Concerened, have you ever been to Cuba???

And who are those people in Miami? They are the Rich gusanos that fled because they new they wouldnt be able tosell drugs any more or have gigantic castle size houses.

[pce]

"BS, america forces capitalismis like saying the swiss force choclate, people want it anyway,it doesn't have to be forced!!! "

this reminds me of that line from the movie "the usual suspects": the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from pce on 5:31 pm on June 19, 2002
"BS, america forces capitalismis like saying the swiss force choclate, people want it anyway,it doesn't have to be forced!!! "

this reminds me of that line from the movie "the usual suspects": the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

OK, sowhat does that quote mean? How do you relate it to my quote? (I don't think "the devil" exists because I think all religion is mere mythology).

[marxistdisciple]

I don't understand most of this post, most is speculation. Please post sources when making opinionated comments - how does anyone know either way otherwise?

[concerned]

Mazdak:

Some relatives you have there, huh. How come they are able to go back and forth so much, that is not something that the common cuban is able to do, are they working for the government or something like that? If that is so I understand why they would want to stay.

Anyway, I don't even know if they actually exist or you are just making this up here in lack of better arguments... hey yeah I have a bunch of relatives in Cuba as well, and they all think it sucks....

And even if you were telling the truth, which I highly doubt because cubans are not usually able to travel as freely as your "relatives" seem to do, they would not be at all representative of the majority.

Yes, I've been to Cuba, but I don't really want to talk about it, I prefer to use arguments instead. Iprefer to give you facts you can't deny, like immigration statistics. The rest is just chit-chat without meaning... I'm not coming here to speculate about my imaginary family..

[Mazdak]

Ok imaginarY?? I dont think so. Unless i have been seeing things for the past 14 years, they are sure as hell not imaginary

We are involved in the Center for Cuban Studies and they came twice. DO YOU WANT THEIR NAMES FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!! They are in their seventies, my grandfather's brother and sister in law.

All the members of my family from my mother's side are leftist and are staunch supporters of Castro. We detest the Cubans who fled here and then badmouthed Castro like that

[concerned]

Hey Mazdak, why don't you go to Cuba then? What re you doing here wasting your time in a capitalist country? Go live your socialist dream with your family.

[RGacky3]

Quote: from concerned on 9:18 pm on June 19, 2002
Hey Mazdak, why don't you go to Cuba then? What re you doing here wasting your time in a capitalist country? Go live your socialist dream with your family.


if he moved to Cuba how could he promote communism here. I don't know where you get this thing about the people being scared out of voting, are you saying that the 20% that voted against it were sent to political prisons? also here in the us we don't have much of a decission, democrats or republicans, no other party can win, becouse they are suppressed and they can't voice their opinion, becouse they don't have the money, becouse of capitalism. Perhaps the CIA are not secret poliece, but the FBI are, domestic espionage, if thats not secret police what is it. You know you can still get arrested for publicly supporting communism or handing out leaflets, or something of that sort.

[Capitalist Imperial]

You cannot get arrested for supporting communism in the USA. You are protected by the 1st amendment. They have communist parties on voting pamphlets!! This isn't 1950!

[vox]

"You cannot get arrested for supporting communism in the USA. You are protected by the 1st amendment. They have communist parties on voting pamphlets!! This isn't 1950!"

CI,

You say that this "isn't 1950." You are correct. However you also say no one can be arrested for supporting communism because, in the US, we're protected by the first amendment. Does this mean that the first amendment wasn't in effect in 1950?

vox

[Mazdak]

OK? HOW CAN IGO BAKC TO CUBA IF THE US WONT LET ME?? YOU ARENT ALLOWED TO TRAVEL THERE!!!
They are tightening the embargo(until the Cuban government holds "democratic elections") In other words, Cuba will only be allowed to survive if it becomes capitalist puppet of the US and deposes Castro

[Mazdak]

HOW CAN I GO BACK TO CUBA IF BUSH JUST MADE IT ILLEGAL??? He has tightened the embargo and economic sanctions and now we cant go to cuba. And Concernecd, if a daft ever took place, i am sure you would be the first to flee to mexico anyhow(i would too)

CUba has to hold "democratic elections" and change its government.
Who the fuck does
Bush think he is that he can order other people to change their governments?

(that is what i meant to say)

[concerned]

What a pathetic excuse Mazdak, I won't go because the US won't let me...pityful.
If you really wanted to go, you would know that it is very simple, just go to Mexico or Canada and take a plane from there. And just why would you care if it is illegal, you could stay there and live in your socialist paradise without ever having to come back to this capitalist "hell".

And about the embargo stuff, is it too much to ask for Cuba to hold democratic elections? Unlike what you are saying the US is not asking Cuba to change their government, what they are asking for is that the Cuban people be the one to choose it, instead of having to obey to an imposed tyrant. And if Castro is really what people wanted, what is the big deal? Why is Castro so fearful of letting the Cuban people decide their own destiny? Maybe because he knows that he doesn't have the support...

And in parallel to your question about Bush, who the fuck does Castro think he is best to think he is the best to rule the country? Why shouldn't Cubans be allowed to decide what they want and who they want to be their leader?

[Vide]

The US's embargo is wrong.
Castro's restricted elections are wrong.

How is this problem going to rectify itself? Somehow I doubt that the US will stick to its promise of removing the embargo if Castro allows democratic elections for president. We're talking about Bush after all. He's like Reagan but not as clever.

I predict that Castro will remain in power until the day he dies, just like the old Soviet leaders. He has currently outlived and outserved 10 American presidents who have all made identical attempts to oust him, all of which have failed miserably.

After Castro dies, Cuba will be a grab bag for America. Unless his brother keeps the US out, Cuba will become another Rooseveltian protectorate. The embargo may be lifted, but it'll become another Japan, all it's socialist programs destroyed.

[Mazdak]

Castro has the suport of the people. After 40 years of an embargo, why would anyone just give up. It takes courage to refuse to be a puppet for the US

And hey concerned, i dunno about u but sending a 14 year old alone with no money to Cuba isnt exactly a good idea. I have no backing, my relatives there arent going to be too happy if i say i need them to provide for me for another 4 years till i cna live on my own, (if that long)

[Guest]

The question is contrast Cuba now with Pre Castro. Who wants Cuba to return to a theme park for the Mafia. or these days coporate businessmen?

The people of Cuba have a fine education system and medical care.

all this talk of oppression under Castro is just sour grapes because Cuba has managed to resist american Capitalism.

Contrast Cuba with Puerto Rico and Jamaica.. 2 islands also in the Carribbean which have been financially colonised by the USA.

the revolution has worked in cuba and the support of the Cuban people for Fidel is a testament to that fact.


" vale mil veces mas la vida de un ser humano que todas la riquesas del hombre mas rico de la tierra...."
CHE

[Mazdak]

Thank you, Guest, for an excellent post. It is true, every bit of it. And with Puerto Rico as our bomb tester, it doesnt look like it has a bright future(with bomb testings not ending in the near future)

And if the US isnt Imperialist, than what are the virgin islands and puerto rico- they are COLONIES!!!!