American tourists to Cuba - Hang them!

[oldman]

What if the U$ really started enforcing the embargo?

resorts are full of american tourists, at customs they see the stamps in the passports, hang every american that goes to cuba to take advantage of their lower currency!

Unless you go to cuba for humanitarian missions there is no excuse!!

[Guest]

I don't think that is a crime punishable by death. Why should people be allowed into Cuba for humanitarian purposes either? Spies could easily pose as philathropists. No American should be allowed into Cuba, until Castro meets the same fate as Che.

[Xvall]

Quote: from Guest on 9:54 pm on June 16, 2002
I don't think that is a crime punishable by death. Why should people be allowed into Cuba for humanitarian purposes either? Spies could easily pose as philathropists. No American should be allowed into Cuba, until Castro meets the same fate as Che.

Your Inefficient 'Criminals In Action' have tried to give Castro the same 'fate' about a million times, all of which have failed. This guy has outlived the majority of your own presidents! Hell, your CIA can't even detect airplanes flying 300 miles off course! What makes you think they could kill Castro?

[STALINSOLDIERS]

lol the cia sucks... the KGB is way better then the cia..the americans are ignorent and there good at it..

[Natalenko]

Well, the small amount of tourism in cuba is still very helpful to the economy, but i can assure you there would be alot more if USA didnt hold those embargoes. Cuba is such a beautiful country, wether or not you beleive in equality, it is still a great place to visit, so the USA is denying its OWN citizens of the freedom of travelling to Cuba, and this is what you call democracy?

[Guest]

Most Americans, like myself, support the embargo. People who respect freedom will chose not to give their money to a communist regime. If communism is so great why then are they effedted by a capitalist coutries embargoes? Don't you think that it is time for a regime change in Cuba?

[Guest]

Because cuba is a small island, dumbass.

Let me revert the question back to you: what would be on your feet if America had to provide for itself? The pseudo communism of the 20th century was actually self-sufficient. The goods that were produced in temperate/colder climates cuba got from the USSR, the two countries could work together without one being a puppet of the other (ie: the USSR did not use Cuba to keep itself wealthy).

[Guest]

Why won't you support an embargo against China, Guest 65?

Oh thats right, they are a huge labor force with great market reforms which benefit American capitalism. We go after Cuba for the same reason why we put an embargo on Chile when Salvador Allende won his election.

[Natalenko]

Umm...... have we ever said that communism was like the Superman of ideologies? i dont think so..... no-one agrees that ANY country can survive without trade and tourism... why would a communist country be any different? Anyway, the majority of the cuban people support Castro, why the fuck do the american people have anything to do with it? Do you own cuba? NO was it worse with your fucking batista? YES, he was just another of USA's fucken crime lords, if you support him, then why do you americans hate cubans? Racial orientated hatred perhaps?

[ID2002]

if you want to hear something really sad...
I know of a group of Americans who wanted to go to CUBA. So they asked a bunch of Canadians to cover for them. The American got into CUBA illegally. Man if they had been caught, those American would have been in some serious SHIT!

...I happy to be Canadian. At least we excepted.

[Son of Scargill]

It's bollocks,basically.The US doesn't lke to be shown that people could survive without their "superior"supervision.Just get over it you arrogant fucks,and let others try to get on in their own way.

[Euphen]

I'm probably the only socialist I know that actually supports the embargo on Cuba. My reasons, however, are very different than right-wingers or the United States government. I support the embargo because if it were to be lifted the influx of foreign capital would inevitably lead to the restoration of capitalism on the island. Although the restoration of capitalism is probably inevitable anyway.

[Guest]

Who said I do not support an embargo with China? It was Nixon who opened up trade relations with them in the seventies. Clinton was also a big on normalized trade. We use to have embargoes on China and we still should. It is in our national security interests. What army is going to stop China from nationalizing the capital that the multinational corporations have sent to their shore? In any case, it is always immoral to use slave labor. Anyone living under communism is effectively, a slave.

In response to:

"let others try to get on in their own way."

That is exactly what I said on another post regarding the U.N.. But let them do it without monetary support of the U.S.. Good luck and good riddance.

[Euphen]

What you don't realize is that opening trade is in the best interest in the United States. Now that Vietnam is integrated into the global economy it is more at the mercy of the imperialists than it was even when occupied by United States troops. China has also become a semi-colony of the foreign capitalists. The only reason they don't do the same to Cuba is because Bush and other politicians are too eager to please the Cuban exiles in Miami. The business leaders would be happy to have the economic sanctions on Cuba lifted because it would mean a new supply of cheap labor and a favorite vacation spot for Americans like it was under Batista. After all, Trotsky said that the worst threat to the Soviet Union was not military intervention but "cheap goods in the baggage train." Unfortunitely the integration of the economies of the world over the past twenty years makes it impossible for a country such as Cuba to remain isolated. This was the reason for the fall of the Soviet Union and the restoration of capitalism in China, which has been sped up because of the failure of the revolution to destroy the bourgeosie or even create a true worker's state as they did in the Soviet Union. This was also the reason that Marx said it was impossible to build socialism in one country.

[Guest]

It is in our best interest to let the Chinese nationalize many of our industrial assets? The effects of this would be devastating to our economy and put them in the position to build an economic empire. Mao killed thirty million of his own people trying to industrialize a backwords, communist nation. Where he failed, the U.S. steps in and does it for the enemy. Look at the United States during WWII. Remember how easy it was for us to shift production from the appliance and automobile industry to the manufacture of war machines. Imagine how the Chinese would use such capital if they stole it from us. Furthermore, there have been links to certain terrorist training camps and the Chinese. These guys are our friends, which share our economic objectives. I think not.

[Dan Majerle]

freak there are so many guests i'm getting them confused!

[Angie]

I'd love to see the day when the world just refused to give America anything, frankly. Doesn't have to be full-term, at least until it loses it's superpower status and comes crawling back.

If it demands on being so damned isolationist, then that can be arranged so that such a theory covers the entire spectrum, trade and all. It imports more than it exports. Let it create it's own products. We all know American-made products are shit anyhow, since quantity appears to be more important to most of their industries than quality - the decent products have always come from Europe.

And no, computers that are designed in America but constructed in foreign nations don't count as American products unless they are 100% constructed in America, with 100% American materials. Nor anything else that is similar, including clothes made in foreign sweatshops.

America relying upon itself, and the rest of us relying collectively upon each other... 180+ nations to 1...

In today's political environment, it actually sounds fair.

[ID2002]

even if the trade restrictions continued for many more years, I think CUBA could survive. Even if the USA threatens its neighbours into giving up on CUBA, Canada/Mexico....and a few other countries will continue to trade despite Americas protest. Fidel Castro has always commended Canada for helping his county out in hard times. I know for a fact that many of Canadas "Socialist Party", and "Communist Party" members were at CUBA's protest against Prez BUSH.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from STALINSOLDIERS on 11:27 pm on June 16, 2002
lol the cia sucks... the KGB is way better then the cia..the americans are ignorent and there good at it..


You have no idea of what you speak. The CIA made a mockery of the KGB, feeding the soviets so much mis-information that it lead to flawed soviet weapons technology and billions in wasted $$$ for the USSR, which helped collapse the USSR financially!! The CIA was much more effective than the USSR in espionage and cold-war operations.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Son of Scargill on 4:24 am on June 17, 2002
It's bollocks,basically.The US doesn't lke to be shown that people could survive without their "superior"supervision.Just get over it you arrogant fucks,and let others try to get on in their own way.


We allowe cuba to exist. We have a military base there. We could take that Island any time we want to. Besides, they can "survive" all they want, but it will be at 3rd world poverty levels while their evil dictator and his political elite skim the cream of cubas economy and leave the people with very litte. Typical communist fare.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Angie on 1:35 pm on June 17, 2002
I'd love to see the day when the world just refused to give America anything, frankly. Doesn't have to be full-term, at least until it loses it's superpower status and comes crawling back.

If it demands on being so damned isolationist, then that can be arranged so that such a theory covers the entire spectrum, trade and all. It imports more than it exports. Let it create it's own products. We all know American-made products are shit anyhow, since quantity appears to be more important to most of their industries than quality - the decent products have always come from Europe.

And no, computers that are designed in America but constructed in foreign nations don't count as American products unless they are 100% constructed in America, with 100% American materials. Nor anything else that is similar, including clothes made in foreign sweatshops.

America relying upon itself, and the rest of us relying collectively upon each other... 180+ nations to 1...

In today's political environment, it actually sounds fair.


Have u ever used a purely american product? I have and I can assure you quality is 2nd to none!!!

[marxistdisciple]

Cuba is one of Britain's most popular tourist destinations now apparently. Wonder why we go? Maybe it is the politics, or the beauty of seeing a nation that is still surviving economically, despite the the best efforts of the u$ states to crush it. Is there actually a reason for the trade embargo? Or is it because the US doesn't like communism?

Is that why when you send something UPS to the states, it isn't allowed to have originated from Cuba, North Korea, or Vietnam? Cause that would be a great crime to support an alternative political system right?
The US reeks of hipocricy.

If cuba is so bad, why do other capitalist countries not ban imports as well? We can buy cuban cigars, and we are an evil capitalist nation too. that's weird that.

[Moskitto]

All products second to none?

tell me then why someone I know praises the quality of UK made Kirton Boats and uses his UK made Aylings boat instead of his US made Van Dusan boat?

You should actually research a wide range of products before making such generalised statements.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Moskitto on 8:14 pm on June 17, 2002
All products second to none?

tell me then why someone I know praises the quality of UK made Kirton Boats and uses his UK made Aylings boat instead of his US made Van Dusan boat?

You should actually research a wide range of products before making such generalised statements.

I have and use a wide range of US products, and have for years. Your friends personal opinion of what boat he likes does not say anything about general quality. I prefer cheap sunglasses because they are easily replaced if lost. It doesn't mean I like them for quality. What type of boats does your friend have?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 8:08 pm on June 17, 2002
Cuba is one of Britain's most popular tourist destinations now apparently. Wonder why we go? Maybe it is the politics, or the beauty of seeing a nation that is still surviving economically, despite the the best efforts of the u$ states to crush it.


1) I don't think tourists from the UK go to Cuba based on the fact that it is surviving economically despite US embargoes. Most citizens of the UK respect the US as a legitimate strategic and economic ally.

2) The United States has not made its "best effort" to crush cuba. If the US had made its "best effort" to take Cuba, then Cuba would already be the 51st state or at least a territory of the US. Cuba exists because we allow it to exist, bottom line.

[Moskitto]

racing kayaks.

and Kirtons are accepted as being good quality by all. That's why people are buying them instead of the cheap Hungarian imports. The Kirton Delta racing canoe is likewise one of the easiest boats to steer, far more so than the Van Dusan Merlin. The only people who use Van Dusen boats are the Americans who won 0 medals at the last sprint world championships, the winners had been using good designs from Eastern Europe. At marathon events people are using well made boats from manufacturers such as Kirton, including more traditional designs.

The US may have been ahead in designs in the early 90s, however Eastern Europe has cought up and overtaken in designs. Even Western Europe is producing better made boats, but not pumping them out as fast as Eastern Europe.

As far as paddles go, The Hungarians and Canadians are ahead of everyone.

[Supermodel]

This is another political and economic debate that I find contrary to common sense and the actions and desires of Che and Fidel.

First of all, when did communism become isolationism? I have absolutely no idea why any socilaist, or any capitalist, would be afraid of trade with Cuba. Cuba trades today with many capitalist and some socilaist countries. Opening up US trade would no only improve the quality of life for Cubans, giving them a greater market to export to, but allow them to showcase how socialism has worked for them.


Fidel and Che went to work right away to secure trade agreements with the rest of the world, not only because they wanted to cut dependency ties with the US, but because they knew the US would cut those ties anyway.

The Cuban trade embargo is a sham, and a demonstration of the US' total hypocrisy in foreign policy. If instead of listening to a handful of gusanos in Miami, Bush listened to the people of Cuba, this would all be over.

Bush wants Cuba to improve human rights. Cuba has a better human rights record than half the countries in the world.

Bush wants Cuba to hold democratic elections. Clearly he has not been briefed on how the Saudi, Jordanian, and Egyptians govern. Not to mention Venezuela.

Oh, you mean a democratic election so long as the guy we want wins? What?????

[Capitalist Imperial]

Ok, europe has better kayaks, fine.

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 8:06 pm on June 17,
Have u ever used a purely american product? I have and I can assure you quality is 2nd to none!!!

Your jingoism blinds you.

[Natalenko]

Yup.....and American-made cars are the best quality too........ errm....better than anywhere else...... *cough*.......thats for.... sure....

[Capitalist Imperial]

American cars are of good quality

[marxistdisciple]

Well, it depends what you compare them to. Say compare the fuel economy of an american car, to an equivilent european one. When you think of the best car manufacturers in the world, do you think of ford, chrysler and gmc? lol

Most other countries don't buy american imports because they drink gas by the truckload, are incredibly inefficient, and don't compare to cheaper european or japanese cars. Jeep or Mercedes? Dodge or Ferrari? Chrysler or Audi? There's not really a comparison.

It must be fun having gas so cheap, but most other places in the world get charged a lot more, therefore we have to make cars that are efficient and inexpensive to run.
The japanesse make cars which are efficient, cheap and inexpensive.

That's why toyota wins survey after survey on reliability and maintenance....that is why european companies lead the way in alternative fuel sources like fuel cells and lpg, while american's polute the environment with their giant gas guzzling trucks.

That is why USA is the most poluting country in the world, bar none.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Americans drive farther and use their vehicles for work and play more, so naturally they are bigger and more powerful. You can't compare an american car to a ferrari, unless you count a dodge viper, chevy corvette, or ford gt40. The ford GT40 is the only car to beat ferrari at lemans, and did so 3 years in a row, finishing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Until ferrari had Ford banned because they couldn't beat ford!!! The ford f150 is the worlds best selling vehicle! It is the most reliable full size truck there is, with plenty of american power!!

[Anonymous]

Well its not that easy you see! Castro doesnt allow humanitary help in Cuba! see if USA or any other country starts to give humanitary help they will start making propaganda as well! and Castro cant allow that! besides the tourists arent allowd to make anythype of help to cubans! my uncle went there with my aunt (she is medic and went there in work) and my uncle was almost arrested just for paying dinner to afew cubans!

[Moskitto]

There was the Ford in the 70s I believe which used to explode if you just tapped it on annother car. Ford got into serious shit for that because someone uncovered that Ford knew about it but didn't do anything about it.

[Capitalist Imperial]

That was 1 model of car, the Ford Pinto, everyone makes mistakes. Its nothing compared to the quality cars that ford has produced

[jimr]

Quote: from Supermodel on 8:45 pm on June 17, 2002
This is another political and economic debate that I find contrary to common sense and the actions and desires of Che and Fidel.

First of all, when did communism become isolationism? I have absolutely no idea why any socilaist, or any capitalist, would be afraid of trade with Cuba. Cuba trades today with many capitalist and some socilaist countries. Opening up US trade would no only improve the quality of life for Cubans, giving them a greater market to export to, but allow them to showcase how socialism has worked for them.


Fidel and Che went to work right away to secure trade agreements with the rest of the world, not only because they wanted to cut dependency ties with the US, but because they knew the US would cut those ties anyway.

The Cuban trade embargo is a sham, and a demonstration of the US' total hypocrisy in foreign policy. If instead of listening to a handful of gusanos in Miami, Bush listened to the people of Cuba, this would all be over.

Bush wants Cuba to improve human rights. Cuba has a better human rights record than half the countries in the world.

Bush wants Cuba to hold democratic elections. Clearly he has not been briefed on how the Saudi, Jordanian, and Egyptians govern. Not to mention Venezuela.

Oh, you mean a democratic election so long as the guy we want wins? What?????


venezuela? Chavez was elected was he not?

[Guest]

Anarchist,

You are right. Cuba remains poor because of the lack of foreign aid allowed. Why? Because they have a corrupt economic and political system which allows for a dictator that views his subjects as expendable. Why has the U.S. remained so wealthy without any foreign aid? If it is impossible for a 'good' economic system to survive without foreign aid, why are we doing so much better than the rest of the world? Can it be that our political and economic sytem are superior?

[Guest]

Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 11:30 pm on June 18, 2002
That was 1 model of car, the Ford Pinto, everyone makes mistakes. Its nothing compared to the quality cars that ford has produced

Like the Edsel?Or more recently the Maverick.Both piles of shite.Or rust-bucket Sierras?Real quality stuff.Nah!Nowadays,stay safe and buy Jap.