Are all muslims Terrorists? no? well thats what USA thinks -

[Anonymous]

America's victory in Afghanistan is a murky one, if that. The Taliban may have been driven from power, but U.S. forces are still trying to hunt down suspected Al Qaeda fighters and innocent civilians are still dying in the process. This week, a group of apparently non-Al Qaeda villagers are complaining of being held and beaten by American forces before being released. By some estimates, thousands of noncombatant Afghans have been killed by American bombs, missiles and gunships. The latest incident under investigation happened on Jan. 24, when U.S. commandos killed at least 15 men believed to be Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters.

Masuda Sultan is an Afghan-American who recently traveled to Afghanistan to see for herself what happened in her homeland. What she found was tragic. Nineteen members of her family, 20 if you count the unborn child of one of her cousins, had been killed by American bombs. Sultan's sad journey was shown on Bill Moyers' new PBS newsmagazine Now last week. The following excerpt comes from the show's web site:

Born in Kandahar, Afghanistan in 1978, Masuda Sultan fled to the U.S. at age 5 with her family. Raised in New York City, she returned to Kandahar in August to explore her family roots and founded the Young Afghan-World Alliance (YA-WA) upon her return. Ms. Sultan has worked on numerous outreach efforts including leading YA-WA's humanitarian aid efforts in Afghanistan. While filming a documentary in Afghanistan in December 2001, Ms. Sultan learned of the deaths of 19 members of her extended family during the U.S. bombing campaign. She is currently working with the non-profit Global Exchange and the families of September 11th. She speaks throughout the U.S. and to the world community to promote the understanding of Afghanistan.

Now conducted a Q&A with Ms. Sultan recently.

Tell me about your family:

Both my mother and father are Kandahari. My father taught chemistry in the city. The four of us, including my older brother, fled to the U.S. in 1983. My two younger sisters were born in America. After my family fled the war zone, I did not return to my home country for 18 years.

How often have you returned over the years?

August of 2001 was the first time I went back, to seek out my extended family and learn what happened to them over the past two decades. I had heard unbelievable stories - things you read about in books and tragic films. My family actually suffered these things. Growing up in the U.S., I was somewhat removed from my family in Afghanistan. It was in the last few years that I longed to know where I came from and what had happened there.

What led you to co-found Young Afghan World Alliance?:

Afghanistan is a desperate country. Growing up with all the opportunities the U.S. had to offer only made me more conscious of that. I believed that I could find a way to have a positive impact in Afghanistan and help the people there. It was my trip there in August of 2001 that made me realize I had to do something immediately.

We've been involved in the distribution of aid and building a bridge of understanding between Afghans and Americans. Our current main goal is to establish a school in Kandahar, the former Taliban stronghold. We want to offer motivated children an opportunity to have a world class education.

How did you feel as a woman and a relative of young Afghan women when in Afghanistan?

My struggle for my own rights as a woman here in the U.S. pales when compared to what women experience in that country. It pained me greatly to see women who are so intelligent and charming not have a shot at making anything of themselves. So much talent is wasted.

What most impressed me was women's knowledge and skills, even without a formal education. I found great respect and even awe in the intellect and understanding of so many older, wiser women. In some ways, I knew it put my United States College Education to shame. Most of the women understood that what was going on under the Taliban was not right, yet they powerless. I believe that, given the right tools, Afghan women represent one of the greatest resources in the country.

One of the best ways to distance ourselves from the Taliban is to give women a voice.

What were the feelings of the Afghans you talked to toward the American raids and American forces?

In Kandahar, I saw examples where the target house was hit, and the ones next to it were left standing safely. When villagers found out who we were, the approached the house in which we were residing to find out from us how to gain aide after the accidental destruction. A farmer who had lost two tractors took my cell phone number. He said that in a couple of months he would travel to the city to rent a satellite phone for two minutes and call to see if I knew how he would get repaid. He had put the remaining parts of the tractor aside as evidence. They have such a high regard for the U.S. that they believe in their hearts that the U.S. will repay for errors them and help them to rebuild their lives.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

thats what most americans think os the arab world and muslims they think of them of evil terrorist, the evil ones and the terrorist are the americans the only reson no one says shit is cause of money, they pay people to lie and shut up.....i want islamic jihad against usa...i going to a islamic mosque and everyone seems to be cool..

[Capitalist Imperial]

This is ludicrous, the vast majority of Americans understand that not all muslims are terrorists. We understand that true islam is a belief system based on peace and brotherhood. We are talking about the USA, the world's most culturally diverse nation. We have many muslims living here. I don't know where you got your info that americans think all muslims are terroists, but it is not true. And that news story minimizing america's success in afghanistan is left-slanting media propoganda at best

[Supermodel]

I see no connection between the post and the title you put on the thread.

The article confirms the attrocious abuse and exploitation of women in Afghanistan as in mnay Muslim states.

In other word, the correct title to your post would have been,

Are all male Muslims mysogynists,

And that is a statement we could all have agreed to.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

supermodel shut up you sound like a facist not now but n some other post....you shut up or i terrorize your family and ill kill your children..

[Capitalist Imperial]

SS, with his usual compelling commentary.

No wonder most terrorist factions come from undeveloped, backwards countries. Look at SS, he is supporting terrorism, and everyone in this forum agrees that he is the dumbest, most ignorant person here. Not just his english mind you, but his entire worldview. How sad, SS. I'm sorry.

[Supermodel]

Why Stalinsoldiers, sounds like you're afraid of girls like me.

Oh my I'm so scared {yawn...}.

Fascist? me? I think the word you are looking for is Feminist.

[Fabi]

hmmm... SS sounds more like a fascist to me, but on the other hand i dare to have discussions with people like CI, so who am i to judge? ;)

[STALINSOLDIERS]

im not afraid of girls what do you mean by that....and im not a facist you stupid fuck.....soy communista para siempre..

[Supermodel]

Now Stalinsoldiers I don't want to get you in a panic here, but the reason Muslim men require their women to veil, to walk behind them, not to drive cars, basically not to leave the house, is because they are all terrified of women.

Now ask your pals there at the mosque.....I'm sure Miami has a really cool mosque.....why in most Muslim countries do they take girls at age six, hold them down, and with a sharp blade or piece of glass cut away all their external sex organs, the Labia and the clitoris, which is the organ that gives a woman sexual pleasure, then stitch the little girls up so they can be unstitched on their wedding night like a nice little package, assuring both their virginity and their inability to ever enjoy or even want sex?

The term for this is Feminine Genital Mutilation or FGM and there are a great many websites devoted to it, even UN hearings held about it.




Hmmmmmmm.....let me see now..... if we had a culture where all males were castrated at age six, don't you think we'd suggest they are a little bit afraid of men?

Nice religion you picked for yourself. I hope you only have sons.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from Fabi on 12:19 am on June 14, 2002
hmmm... SS sounds more like a fascist to me, but on the other hand i dare to have discussions with people like CI, so who am i to judge? ;)


Hold on now, FABI. I think you have to agree that my arguements are founded in logic or at least in support of a legitimate ideology (whether or not you support said ideology), and are submitted logically using good english and grammar (except when I get lazy with my typing and don't edit). I don't undestand your comment. Are you saying that I am dumb in general, or that my Capitalist American view is dumb? Or did I completely misnderstand?

[Fabi]

i'll answer in a PM...
but, yeah, it was a misunderstanding...

[anti machine]

American supremecy really pisses the fuck outta me. What really makes me mad are these "justifiable bombings" in which it seems civilians are deliberately targeted.

[Anonymous]

just look at the fbi 10 most wanted

[ID2002]

The US education system doesn't seem to teach about world cultures too much! People in the US are fairly ignorant when it come to understanding Islam and what it truely means.

ignorance breeds hatred and fear. plain and simple.

In Canada we teach about outside cultures first, and then our own. It is hard not to know some who is not Islamic in Vancouver or Toronto...so it is just natural that we take a moe tollerant stance with Islam. Understand that Osama represents a militant Islamic sect which most certianly does not represent the majority. Is ideas a refuted by moderate Muslims as being oppressive. Terrorism is not part of Islamic tradition and nor is it supported!
I have many Islamic friends.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from anti machine on 7:01 am on June 14, 2002
American supremecy really pisses the fuck outta me. What really makes me mad are these "justifiable bombings" in which it seems civilians are deliberately targeted.


Anti Machine, American military does not kill innocents on purpose!!! Incidental collarteral damage is unfortunate. The only people that kill innocents on purpose are: terrorists, hitler, pol pot, and stalin!!! (no americans, except tim mcveigh, again, a terrorist, not military)

[Capitalist Imperial]

This is ludicrous, the vast majority of Americans understand that not all muslims are terrorists. We understand that true islam is a belief system based on peace and
brotherhood. We are talking about the USA, the world's most culturally diverse nation.
We have many muslims living here. I don't know where you got your info that americans
think all muslims are terroists, but it is not true. And that news story minimizing america's success in afghanistan is left-slanting media propoganda at best.

Just another typical American stereotype, you people have no idea what you are talking about.

[Moskitto]

If that's true, Americans obviously understand Islam better than my Grandad.

Seriously, my grandad writes about how the Koran says this and that and the other but forgets that half the things he says are in the Koran are also in the bible.

But my grandad's job used to be getting money out of the Arabs. He was managing director of Roles Royce Canada.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Managing Director of Rolls Royce Canada? That must have been great $$$$!!!!

[Hattori Hanzo]

gotta agree with CI for once...

supermodel- you said it better than anyone else could

[IzmSchism]

America is a melting pot for the uni-culture that we impose on all other countries....but yes I too am tired of seeing specials on CNN devoted to the question of Fundamentalist vs Islamist

[Tkinter1]

WHY IN GODS NAME DOES THE US THINK THAT ALL ARABS ARE TERRORISTS??
Its not like ther have been the predominant terrorist right. and intelligent people like stalin soldier enjoy basking in ignorance and posting "thats what most americans think os the arab world and muslims they think of them of evil terrorist, the evil ones and the terrorist are the americans the only reson no one says shit is cause of money, they pay people to lie and shut up.....i want islamic jihad against usa...i going to a islamic mosque and everyone seems to be cool.. "


and people like 'kill the capatilist' who say look at the fbi's 10 most wanted. Hes soo right!
They are ALL INNONCENT ARABS, not TERRORISTS. WHY ARE THEY BEING PERSECUTED???

"The US education system doesn't seem to teach about world cultures too much! People in the US are fairly ignorant when it come to understanding Islam and what it truely means."


THE TOPIC OF 10TH GRADE SOCIAL STUDIES IS WORLD CULTURE!. LoL, you dont even live here do you?


"supermodel shut up you sound like a facist not now but n some other post....you shut up or i terrorize your family and ill kill your children.."

blah i cant find words for how incredibley mornic that was.



(Edited by Tkinter1 at 7:37 am on June 15, 2002)

[Guest]

The idea of the melting pot, 'give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses', might just get us all killed. That is not to say that all Muslims are terrorists, as I live in a culturally diverse community, rich in Muslim culture. Sometimes I can't help wondering if I may have a neighbor who might be a sleeper operative for al Qaeda. Many of my neighbors are friendly, others are fundamentalists. The most extreme factions of the Muslim religion have been allowed access to our freedom and our resources. It is clear that many of my neighbors hate the U.S. and what it stands for. Look at interviews with Palestinian students and how they support the use of terrorism as a way of achieving a political end. Many Palestinians have been educated within the United States and are familiar with our way of life, yet somehow the less extreme elements in the Middle East can justify terrorism. What about the people living under dictatorships with no freedom of thought. Loudspeakers in public areas broadcast messages about the 'evils' of the west. Many young men are sent to madrassas where they are indoctrinated with a perverted interpretation of the Koran. Much like the crusades, the educators are using religion as a way to justify hatred and murder.
Immigration policy in the U.S. has caused a huge national security threat. No one except U.S. citizens has a right to live in the United States. Personally, I enjoy living in a country rich in diversity of culture and ideas, but certain intelligent solutions must be formulated. The stakes are too high. We are inviting destruction of our way of life. People from countries like Libya, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Cuba, China, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia, Indonesia, and the Philippines should all scrutinized in greater detail when allowed entrance into the United States. Why invite our enemies to breach our security and use our own free society as a tool against us.
At this time we can not afford to give aliens the benefit of the doubt. What if someone releases smallpox or hemorragic fever into our population? How can we wage war with our enemies when they have breached our borders and can bargain with the lives of potentially millions of our citizens? What happens when a radiological bomb contaminates Wall Street? Think about the missing devices that disappeared from Russia at the end of the Cold War. These suit case bombs could already be in strategic locations. Imagine the potential loss of infrastructure. When wildfires break out in National Forests and fire bans are imposed, don't the few ruin it for the majority? Anyone who thinks that we should have open borders at this time is either living in a different country or suicidal.

[Moskitto]

Yeah, he's loaded. He lives in a grade 2 listed building which is probably worth at least a million and is more 2 buildings with a really big courtyard and a back garden which is down a private road. He has one of those stereos which turns on when you put your hand near it and a 28' TV. Then he's got a conservatory and a snooker table, one of those really high tech ovens which must have cost thousands and a computer with flatscreen monitor, and he gets about 8 pensions, one of which is paid in US$. He's pretty loaded.

My dad and my uncle are less loaded. My dad is actually quite clever and worked hard most of his life but hasn't made himself vastly wealthy and nothing interesting happens to us, but my uncle worked as a wine waiter and pub manager so got paid quite a bit and lots of interesting things happen to him and he wins holidays to places even though my dad thinks he's a total slacker and does stupid things like driving my cousin home while he was well, over the legal limit.

[Power1]

Not all muslims are terrorists.

I would say Islam is an oppresive religion though look how they treat woman and non muslims such as christians in their countries. They believe they have to convert everyone to Islam. Many believe this can only be achieved by killing all non muslims.

They may achieve this aim. They are boasting about turning Britain into a Islamic republic by 2025.

The USA arn't terrorists. Remember they were the ones attacked on 9/11.

[Guest]

They will probably succed in turning Britain into an islamic republic they are the fastest growing immigrants there.

[Power1]

The muslims have a good chance of succeding unless the BNP grows and grows quickly.

[Xvall]

Quote: from Power1 on 8:34 pm on June 15, 2002
Not all muslims are terrorists.

I would say Islam is an oppresive religion though look how they treat woman and non muslims such as christians in their countries. They believe they have to convert everyone to Islam. Many believe this can only be achieved by killing all non muslims.

They may achieve this aim. They are boasting about turning Britain into a Islamic republic by 2025.

The USA arn't terrorists. Remember they were the ones attacked on 9/11.


Wasn't USA the ones that used to put everyone they FEARED during the Seconf World War (Germans, Japanese) into detainment camps? Isn't Christianity the religion that tells you that if you 'sin' with an eye, to pluck it out? Isn't Christianity the one's who spread the beliefs that the woman's only place is to take care of kids in the house.

[Guest]

Isn't communism the belief that you live only to serve the state? Wasn't Russia the country that murdered anybody who didn't agree with Stalin, or those that had different political affliations? Christianity has done more for this worldthen you'll every be able to fathom. Thank you drive thru pls.

[Guest]

Quote: from Guest on 2:35 am on June 17, 2002
Isn't communism the belief that you live only to serve the state? Wasn't Russia the country that murdered anybody who didn't agree with Stalin, or those that had different political affliations? Christianity has done more for this worldthen you'll every be able to fathom. Thank you drive thru pls.

Very ignorant.

Guest, if you wish to learn or debate, I suggest you register. This is a very incorrect comment about communism. I agree that the soviet union had problems, and you are correct that during the stalin era people were murdered. Stalin doesn't represent Marxism, which is essentially what communism is (not a state-capitalist dictatorship).

[Xvall]

Quote: from Guest on 2:35 am on June 17, 2002
Isn't communism the belief that you live only to serve the state? Wasn't Russia the country that murdered anybody who didn't agree with Stalin, or those that had different political affliations? Christianity has done more for this worldthen you'll every be able to fathom. Thank you drive thru pls.


I can just as easilly say that Capitalism kileld 20,000,000 people because of Leopold the Second. And Hitler Used Christianity as a platform to spread hatred towards jews. (Saying they killed jesus)

[Lurker021]

sorry about the anon thing. I don't see what was so ignorant, Technically both statements are true, btw they were both inregard to Russian Communism, so I apologize to all you MArxists out there.

[Lurker021]

I fail to see what relivance Hitler has to any of this, obviously he was a fiend from hell.

And please enlighten me about this Leopold the second character, he sounds like a man from the middle ages. If that is true (him being middle ages ruler) then obviously Capitalism has a practice was yet to be thought of, unless I am mistaken.

[Renard]

What you described there Supermodel, is not an Islam tradition, but an African tradition. It is true that many Islam nations are in Africa and practice FGM, but the FGM practice pre-dates Islam by about 1,000 years.

[Lurker021]

It is also practiced in Asia.

[Guest]

Stalin is the apitamy of Marxism. I suggest anyone who disagrees, take another look at their beloved 'bible', or at every communist regime that has ever existed on the planet. The catastophic results of communism are no accident. Don't tell me this is a result of never having communism in a pure form. Free interprise has never existed in pure form either, yet how many people have died as a direct result of this economic system. Good theories work to some degree when practiced. Your flawed theory has failed every single time, because it is the antithesis of man's nature. It didn't take hundreds of years either. The failures have all been in the short term.

[Guest]

Draconian Drake,

Sorry I misspelled epitome. I have no way of editing my post and I know how anal retentive you are. I am no English professor.

[Power1]

Christianity may have been oppresive but it has now changed and become more modern.

Hitler saved the world from communism. It is likeky if he had never emerged communism would have taken over the world. There is also evidence to show that Stalin planned to conquer Europe during the 2nd world. He thought this would lead to a worldwide communist revolution. He only failed because Hitler invaded Russia. I'll post the link when i find it.

One of the reasons Hitler hated the jews was because they created communism.

[Moskitto]

Hitler hated Christianity. Mainly because Jesus was a Jew and the Old Testament is the story of the Jewish people. Also he believed that Germany was God rather than God. The only thing Hitler did with the support of the Church was he made an agreement with the Catholic church that the nazis and the catholics would leave each other alone.

And before you start talking about immigrants, you should find out the number of first generation immigrants rather than listening to BNP lies. hint, it's significantly less than 5%. And England wouldn't have a solid back 4 without immigrants.

[Xvall]

There was a post on Leopold the Second, Moskitto, remember it? Bring it up!

[marxistdisciple]

I won't give away Moskitto's figure, but he's right. There was a thing on BBC news about it this morning - the ignorance of people to the real figures. Apparently a lot of people think we take 25% of the worlds immigrants. lol

Jews invented communism power1? I think you are mistaken, maybe marx was born a Jew, that doesn't make him one. Religion is about belief.
That's a new take on hitler, him saving the world. Oh well, I suppose you are entitled to your opinions.

The guest that doesn't understand marxism, and thinks it is the same as stalinsm, is also mistaken. Marx believed in democracy, and stalinism is about dictatorship. That's not democracy, that's sorta what we already have.

Oh to the actual issue of the convo, the US doesn't believe all muslims are terrorists. It's just generally xenophobic. That's why when I went to an american high school, I was asked if my mom drove me over from england. lol
I have been demonstrated the great ignorance about the rest of the world, hence no one knowing where Afghanistan was until it was being bombed.
As to the issue of whether the US Military are terrorists, answer me a question. When tjhe US bombed the red cross hostal in Afghanistan, did they

a) Fail to notice the giant red cross on the roof, or miss their actual target through being badly trained, or
B) Bomb it because they didn't really care who got killed, as long as some afghan's did.
Must be one of the two right? I mean, what did they think a giant red cross meant, aim here?

The cluster bombs were really nice too, especially all the ones that didn't go off and killed small children later.

[Moskitto]

By the way, there's a plot to assasinate Nick Griffin.

[Supermodel]

A muslim britain? That would be worth it just to cover up Camilla Parker Bowles......

[Capitalist Imperial]

Quote: from marxistdisciple on 7:51 pm on June 17, 2002
I won't give away Moskitto's figure, but he's right. There was a thing on BBC news about it this morning - the ignorance of people to the real figures. Apparently a lot of people think we take 25% of the worlds immigrants. lol

Jews invented communism power1? I think you are mistaken, maybe marx was born a Jew, that doesn't make him one. Religion is about belief.
That's a new take on hitler, him saving the world. Oh well, I suppose you are entitled to your opinions.

The guest that doesn't understand marxism, and thinks it is the same as stalinsm, is also mistaken. Marx believed in democracy, and stalinism is about dictatorship. That's not democracy, that's sorta what we already have.

Oh to the actual issue of the convo, the US doesn't believe all muslims are terrorists. It's just generally xenophobic. That's why when I went to an american high school, I was asked if my mom drove me over from england. lol
I have been demonstrated the great ignorance about the rest of the world, hence no one knowing where Afghanistan was until it was being bombed.
As to the issue of whether the US Military are terrorists, answer me a question. When tjhe US bombed the red cross hostal in Afghanistan, did they

a) Fail to notice the giant red cross on the roof, or miss their actual target through being badly trained, or
B) Bomb it because they didn't really care who got killed, as long as some afghan's did.
Must be one of the two right? I mean, what did they think a giant red cross meant, aim here?

The cluster bombs were really nice too, especially all the ones that didn't go off and killed small children later.







Answer: C) They bombed it as legitimate target as the Taliban were housing weapons and ammo and supplies in there. You see, unlike terrortists, the US does not intentionally kill innocent civilians in its military operations. Now, collateral damage does occur, but it is usually because of taliban and al-queda hiding behind and among their own civilians knowing that they are in danger. The only people responsible for death in afghanistan are the taliban, al-queda, andt the sept 11th terrorists.

[Power1]

I sad Hitler stopped the world from turning communist. I didn't say he saved the world although i would rather have lived under National Socialism than communism.

Whats this plan about assanating Nick Griffin if he dies imagine how much the BNP would grow. There are a rising force. They can only get bigger. They will win more council seats next time elections come up. The bigger they get the more they will be condemmed by the media which will get ordinary people intrested in the BNP. It might take a while but the BNP have a great chhance of building a mass movement.

[Moskitto]

Well, if he commits suicide then his movement will shrink because he'll look like a coward.

[DORRI]

Quote: from Supermodel on 12:30 am on June 14, 2002
Now Stalinsoldiers I don't want to get you in a panic here, but the reason Muslim men require their women to veil, to walk behind them, not to drive cars, basically not to leave the house, is because they are all terrified of women.

Now ask your pals there at the mosque.....I'm sure Miami has a really cool mosque.....why in most Muslim countries do they take girls at age six, hold them down, and with a sharp blade or piece of glass cut away all their external sex organs, the Labia and the clitoris, which is the organ that gives a woman sexual pleasure, then stitch the little girls up so they can be unstitched on their wedding night like a nice little package, assuring both their virginity and their inability to ever enjoy or even want sex?

The term for this is Feminine Genital Mutilation or FGM and there are a great many websites devoted to it, even UN hearings held about it.




Hmmmmmmm.....let me see now..... if we had a culture where all males were castrated at age six, don't you think we'd suggest they are a little bit afraid of men?

Nice religion you picked for yourself. I hope you only have sons.

what was your resource to know islam?
your information is completely wrong