Duty to be an activist?

[Unicorn]

Societies inevitably develop from capitalism to socialism and from socialism to communism. Workers active in the communist movement are hastening this development and they will eventually make a revolution in all societies.

I know though that I won't be the next Lenin and as an individual my role will probably be rather insignificant. The date of workers' revolution in my country won't probably change regardless of whether I am actively involved in it or not. The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Ask about one LSD. If you can't attend protests, then at least spend some quiet time studying theoretical works (and NOT the Manifesto or State and Revolution).

[black magick hustla]

Societies inevitably develop from capitalism to socialism and from socialism to communism. Workers active in the communist movement are hastening this development and they will eventually make a revolution in all societies.

I know though that I won't be the next Lenin and as an individual my role will probably be rather insignificant. The date of workers' revolution in my country won't probably change regardless of whether I am actively involved in it or not. The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?

if you have trouble answering that question you might as well go to crimethinc.org

[AGITprop]

Societies inevitably develop from capitalism to socialism and from socialism to communism. Workers active in the communist movement are hastening this development and they will eventually make a revolution in all societies.

I know though that I won't be the next Lenin and as an individual my role will probably be rather insignificant. The date of workers' revolution in my country won't probably change regardless of whether I am actively involved in it or not. The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?

Because. You are lucky enough to have this analysis at this stage in your life.
If every Leftist adopted this attitude of "why should I?", then we would never see revolution.

On that note, who says you cannot have fun. I'm heavily dedicated to my work but I also understand when to be serious and when to screw around, but I completely understand your position. Every Leftist goes through this stage. Hopefully we all become the opposite of LSD, as Jacob mentioned.

[Unicorn]

if you have trouble answering that question you might as well go to crimethinc.org
You misunderstand. If I was an anarchist the only logical thing to do would be activism. Anarchists don't accept dialectical materialism and therefore don't consider revolution inevitable.

I do consider it inevitable so I can be optimist and confident about the future.

[Hit The North]

^^^ Marxists also do not think that revolution is inevitable. Who told you they did?

[Unicorn]

^^^ Marxists also do not think that revolution is inevitable. Who told you they did?
Gerald Cohen.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Perhaps Gerald Cohen was infected with the "apocalyptic predestinationism" (revolution is inevitable) of Karl Kautsky. ;)

[Module]

Societies inevitably develop from capitalism to socialism and from socialism to communism. Workers active in the communist movement are hastening this development and they will eventually make a revolution in all societies.

I know though that I won't be the next Lenin and as an individual my role will probably be rather insignificant. The date of workers' revolution in my country won't probably change regardless of whether I am actively involved in it or not. The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?
You don't have to devote your life to it. You should live your life how you want, as well as being an active communist.
If you're a communist who isn't active then your communism loses all meaning whatsoever; but you should be active in a way that suits you, and to a degree that you feel comfortable with.
Communists have a duty to promote communism, obviously. That's what makes them communists.
But regardless, do it because it's meaningful to you, because you think it's the right thing to do. And you do think it's the right thing to do because you're calling yourself a communist.
You know what I mean. Think of it that way. You know personally it's the right thing. Yep.

[Unicorn]

What is this argument that the revolution is not inevitable anyway?

"The essential conditions for the existence and for the sway of the bourgeois class is the formation and augmentation of capital; the condition for capital is wage labor. Wage labor rests exclusively on competition between the laborers. The advance of industry, whose involuntary promoter is the bourgeoisie, replaces the isolation of the laborers, due to competition, by the revolutionary combination, due to association. The development of Modern Industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable."

- The Communist Manifesto

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Things have developed since the Communist Manifesto. A lot of the arguments there are quite obsolete. Luxemburg's "socialism or barbarism" goes against the anachronistic argument you cited above in the Manifesto.

Ditto with the current "Marxist" concept of class relations...

[Hit The North]

To be fair, it's not that 'things' have developed and invalidated the arguments of the CM; but the CM has to be viewed for what it is: a call to arms. Marx and Engels in the throes of revolutionary optimism.

Preceding the quote, in the same document, Marx and Engels also argue:
Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guild-master(3) and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.

So a victorious revolution isn't somehow predestined. But class struggle is inevitable. As revolutionaries it is our job to intervene in those struggles and be the best fighters for our class, pushing the movement towards the abolition of capitalism.

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Still, I think Engels' The Principles of Communism is a better and more concise read. :)

You are correct in terms of the authors' optimism and the "common ruin" remark (which I have read before), however.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?

If someone is undecided on this, they are probably of no use to the left anyway -- so why waste time on them, or on this issue?

[AGITprop]

If someone is undecided on this, they are probably of no use to the left anyway -- so why waste time on them, or on this issue?

I don't see why they shouldn't take an interest, even if they choose not to act based on it. It is of no concern to us which so called leftists decided to act or not, so long as they don't get in our way.

[Module]

Rosa, I think you'll find that most workers, or most people generally would prefer to have fun rather than to "devote their life to activism".

[Apollodorus]

Because people are suffering right now.

[RaiseYourVoice]

If someone is undecided on this, they are probably of no use to the left anyway -- so why waste time on them, or on this issue?
I have to agree. The reason to fight for revolution cannot be petit-bourgeoise idealism, like a "duty" to for activism. It is the real problems that affect us and our comrades. Its about having a job, decent payment without some capitalist that earns hundreds of millions while one has trouble going on holidays once every few years, its about real democracy where we actually have a say and not just a vote, its about not wanting that our fellow workers are send to death in afganistan, iraq or whereever for imperialist wars, its about all that and alot more that is simply wrong with this system. Of course we all want more fun, more free time, less pressure by your jackass boss, but how do we achieve that? Obviously most of us cannot achieve that by magically just having more fun. How does that work? For me if i want more free time, better payment etc. I have to organise in unions, go on strikes, combine that with a political agenda and propaganda outside of the company. You know, the whole class struggle thing.

To be active in the long run you need to find materialistic reasons why this is your fight. If you cant find those, then rosa is 100% correct that you arent part of our struggle.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Desrumeaux:


Rosa, I think you'll find that most workers, or most people generally would prefer to have fun rather than to "devote their life to activism".

I do not disagree, but I thought we were talking about someone who is deciding between political activism and 'having fun'. Those individuals are of no use to the left.

In contrast, workers in general do not contemplate these alternatives in the abstract (which is, I think, how Unicorn originally posed this question), but when they have to, in strikes etc., they generally make the right choice (even if only temporarily).

-----------------------

RaiseYourVoice -- I think you put it very well.

[Black Cross]

Because people are suffering right now.

As far as i'm concerned, that's your answer.

Even if revolution is 'inevitable', doesn't mean we can't help speed up the process.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?

Who says the two are mutually exclusive?

[Colonello Buendia]

dunno what this says about me but the Stop the war march was the most fun I've had in ages...

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Noxion and Black Flag, thanks for making that point.

I am surprised I did not think of it myself!

[Not entirely illiterate]

I agree with Rosa and RaiseYourVoice - one who must seriously ponder upon the value of activism contra hedonism is sorely trapped within the narcotic grip of consumerism and would make rather poor revolutionary material. To become a part of the revolution, one must be prepared to sacrifice everything; not just the comforts of a lifestyle, but the very blood in your veins.

I personally feel that to say the "revolution is inevitable" is just another form of Eschatology, something that creates feeble and indifferent minds. It will only come when it is created, and we cannot expect someone else to make the sacrifice on our behalf. The revolution will not be peaceful, so one must be armed and prepared, mind and body, individual and collective, united. If one fails to do so, then a revolution is impossible, and the longer it is so, the more difficult it will be to achieve.

[Hit The North]

I agree with Rosa and RaiseYourVoice - one who must seriously ponder upon the value of activism contra hedonism is sorely trapped within the narcotic grip of consumerism and would make rather poor revolutionary material. To become a part of the revolution, one must be prepared to sacrifice everything; not just the comforts of a lifestyle, but the very blood in your veins.


Wow! Guess who came first in the pompous ass contest in your town? :ohmy:

Most of us are engaged in a war of position - the most boring war of all. It demands a lot of patient groundwork: attending branch meetings, intervening in local campaigns, handing out leaflets, selling papers, trying to put forward positions in our unions, etcetera.

It's not unreasonable to see this as the negation of fun. Nor would it be unreasonable to question, seeing as we only have one life to live, whether we're having enough fun. Somehow, thousands of activists manage to keep themselves and their comrades going despite the setbacks, the knock-backs, the lack of progress. We're pugnacious. But we shouldn't lose sight of our duty to be ordinary members of the class and to participate fully in the social life of the class.

To go to a political meeting and be told that you have to give up everything resembling a normal life - and life itself! - would 1. be unnecessary and 2. consign political activism to the realm of the freakish.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

CZ, I think you are being a little harsh with NEI, since 'he' is more or less saying the same as you, except perhaps not with the same kind of Gramscian pretention as you (obscure barracking the 'pompous').

And revolutionary party-building isn't easy, but, if truth be told, we are worse off now than we were 20-30 years ago.

And this considering the fact that we have just witnessed the biggest radicalisation of any generation since 1968.

[Colonello Buendia]

that's true, media mis representation of 68 and so on has left this generation listening to stories of disillusioned radicals and so on. Also the governments are scared of another 68 so they make life a misery so it's harder to prepare the ground work. however just because it's tough doesn't make it impossible.

[gilhyle]

The question is why should I devote my life to activism rather than just having fun?

That is not a question for Marxism, it is a question for YOU. You must answer it just as you answer the question whether to get up in morning - Marxism doesn't answer that one for you either. Nor does Marxism justify the pursuit of happiness.

For some people it is a hard question to answer, for others, the answer is as obvious as that breathing is worth doing. But it is a lifestyle question, not a political question. Marx had his own answer for himself - happiness lay in struggle for him. That is obviously not true for everyone and he never advocated that as a recommended belief.

Rather it is a confusion coming from religion that it could be up to a social perspective like Marxism to tell you why you should be politically active.