Stalinism and me...my evaluation

[James]

Reading over my past posts etc etc i found that i was being very harsh on the Stalinist theroy. Without knowing THAT much about it. But in conclusion it was a success in many areas, and does have some advantages. I could go and on and on praising stalinism, but i won't.

I personally don't like stalinism, because i am a "libertarian pussie". This may be due to my background. I live in the UK, lower middle class family. I don't want to call myself a middle class child, because that gives the impression that my family has had it easy. Where we havn't. For example, my father dropped out of school, and eventually joined a company, and worked his way up the ladder. Some capitalists could argue that this is one of the advantages of capitalism. I may agree. Anyways, i'm getting sidetracked.

Because of my background, i feel that i am a libertarian. I don't like being told what to do. I don't like the idea of having one leader. I don't like the idea of a totalitarian state.

I personally can't see the logic behind an authertarian state. It just might be the way i see communism though. I always saw communism as everyone being equal. Thus everyone gets a say. I suppose this leads on to why i also like the idea of anarchy.





This may lead onto why in over the past few days alot of communists have been siding with capitalists. Is it really commies and capis teaming up? or is it libertarians teaming up? against authertarians?

thoughts???

James

[James]

I'm sorry if that doesn't make much sense...


I think my signature sums up my beliefs though.

[lenin]

the arguments/debates over the past week or so have had nothing to do with cappies and commies teaming up. its purely liberals agaisnt authoritarians. there has been nothing said about economy, its all been about social issues like political structure, free press etc. if we were argung about economics, me and de panama would probobly be arguing the same cause against capitalist fighter or someone.
anyway, stalinists are never, ever going to agree with liberals on social issues because of the basic core belief that we both have. we are populists who put the state and majority above the individual, and you are very individuelistic.

[lenin]

ps, i don't like your signiture because i HATE luxemburg!!!!

[Reuben]

Suprise suprise lenin doesnt like rosa luxemborg.

I WONDER WHY THAT COULD BE...

[Capitalist Imperial]

James, your avatar is an upside-down american flag, but your signature indicates that you believe in a system and values best represented by the USA, please explain. (not starting an argument, just checking to see if I misunderstand).

[James]

Why do you hate her?

[lenin]

same reasons you hate stalin.

[James]

Yes i should change that i suppose.

The upside down flag is going against the America which i hate. This isn't the dream. This is the reality. I would want to become american if the likes of JFK were still around, but this isn't the case. Its the same way i hate my own country. But try putting the English flag upside down...

I don't like americas foriegn policies etc etc. Please don't think i hate all americans. Some i imagine are very nice people, but some arn't. As in all contries. But its not the people i'm on about, its the government.

James

[James]

Lenin, i "hate stalin" eh?

I hate totalitarianism.

[lenin]

an authoritarian communsit fugure is joseph stalin, you hate authoritrian communism so you hate stalin. a liberal communist figure is rosa luxemborg, i hate liberal communism so i hate rosa luxemborg. anyway, what the fuck did she have to do with the prolateriat movement? its like fucking einstein, what the fuck did he know about communism? it pisses me off that most of the 20th century communist writers are not prolateriat. it stinks of menshevism (middle class leading the revolution).

[Capitalist Imperial]

I don't think JFK was really going to do any good for the US, he was young, charismatic, and the 1st catholic us president. He was shot on national TV, all of these circumstance made him a martyr, but he did not do much as a president. He gave america hope, and that hope was maginified as we lost it after his death. I think any thought as to his potential would be conjecture at best. Early indicators show he may have been quite corrupt.

[Michael De Panama]

Well, I hate Stalin. :)

[Michael De Panama]

its like fucking einstein, what the fuck did he know about communism?

Um...

http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einst.htm

Why don't you read that?

[lenin]

couldn't be fucked too read that! einstein was a socialist though. but he was a damn, dirty zionist. he weren't no prolateriat, he was a prick!

[Reuben]

Well wouldnt you.

I hate zionism as much as aanyone, but we all know why it became so popular in tsarist russia

[Moskitto]

Nothing's wrong with Luxemburg. There's also nothing wrong with people who live in Wrexham who don't want Welsh independance. I got those anti-communists who try and use that argement against Luxemburg didn't I.

[lenin]

damn luxemburg! she brought new people to the communist movement that fucked it up big time! fucking hippie, peace nick, democratic, bourgeois scum!!! communism for the prolateriat, for the steel worker, for the farmer, for the factory worker, for the 9-5 office worker, not for rosa fucking luxemburg!!!!

[Anarcho]

Quote: from lenin on 9:25 pm on June 5, 2002
damn luxemburg! she brought new people to the communist movement that fucked it up big time! fucking hippie, peace nick, democratic, bourgeois scum!!! communism for the prolateriat, for the steel worker, for the farmer, for the factory worker, for the 9-5 office worker, not for rosa fucking luxemburg!!!!

As I've said before, what is your beef against non blue-collar workers? I'm not blue collar, does that make me not worth fighting for?

I'm assuming you yourself have never worked in an office environment. This would explain your obviously flawed statement.

[James]

I don't think JFK was really going to do any good for the US, he was young, charismatic, and the 1st catholic us president. He was shot on national TV, all of these circumstance made him a martyr, but he did not do much as a president. He gave america hope, and that hope was maginified as we lost it after his death. I think any thought as to his potential would be conjecture at best. Early indicators show he may have been quite corrupt.

I'm afraid i disagree. For many reasons. He wasn't at all as bad as all the other presidents around his time. He was the youngest. He tried to stop the vietnam war (and was going to, but was killed before he could). He supported the likes of Martin L. King fighting for civil rights. He improved homes, he improved crime ridden areas, he improved education. Most importantly though (for me that is) he tried to change foriegn policy. The list really is endless.

But yes, he supposedly had an affair or something, and the way he came to power is a bit dodgy, with the possibility of Mafia involvement. But the other guy running for president (nixon wasn't it?) was being far more dodgy. Maybe JFK's Dad helped his son get into power by "fighting fire with fire".

etc etc etc


Also, Lenin every time i begin to try and understand and get along with you, you ruin it. How does interlects and the like joining the left result in a bad contrabution?

This is of course just us disagreeing again. You like the idea of totalitarianism, where everyone is told what to do, what to say, what to read, militirastic etc

Where as i'm more libertarian. I like the idea of REAL democracy, i like being able to choose etc. I also believe that for something to be succesful, the people must WANT it to happen. It won't be as nearly as succesful if its forced upon them. I also realiz that there will always be opposition, but i also know how to deal with opposition (know, not putting them in death camps, or shooting them "whilst trying to escape" as what happened to poor Rosa.).

[James]

Also, Lenin, have you ever read 1984?

[lenin]

never read 1984. plan too but i doubt i'll like it.

anarcho, read what i said again:

"for the steel worker, for the farmer, for the factory worker, for the 9-5 office worker"

note where i said, 9-5 office worker as a prolateriat.

james, this is what i can't understand about lberl commies. if you want to make descisions in running the country, join the party! most of the prolateriat, don't care about what happens in foreing policy or whatever, they jsut want happiness. the party rules in favour of these people. and on most issues, the party will seek the opinion of the prolateriat from opinion polls or referendums. the prolateriat who DOES want to make descisions for the country (ie you) can joint the communist party and work his way up through the democratically cntralist process. and also remember, this process will only be in place temporirily unitl a workers democracy can prevail (this takes a long time).

[Michael De Panama]

Haha. 1984 will touch very close to home with you, Lenin. My favorite book.

[James]

1984 portrays brilliantly the reasons as to why i would never back an authertarian government.

[RedSovietCCCP]

Isn't 1984 a fiction book. Iv'e Questioned this a bunch of times "Have you ever seen your style of liberal communism ever work in a country before?" I don't think so. Soviet style totalitarian democracy works. You have to admit that. Then some of you ask "Then why did the soviet union fall???? It didn't fall because the style of government, it fell for other reason which had nothing to do with how they ran there govenment or social issues. The ussr was the most powerful communist country ever and the most powerful country before it fell. It is perdicted that the Soviet Union will rise up one day again and be more powerful than ever before.

[RGacky3]

the USSR fell not becouse of the system, the system worked, but becouse of the cold war.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

and cause of the shit stained head mikhail gobrechev....him and his parastrika

[Michael De Panama]

I've never seen my style of communism work. That's obvious. It just so happens that every "communist" revolution was in a country with little or no proletariat. I've never seen a Stalinist country I'd rather live in than a capitalist country.

Yes "1984" is fiction. If it were true, we would be typing in Newspeak about how great Big Brother is, with telescreens monitering our every move. You know, Big Brother was described in that book exactly like Stalin, while Goldstein was described exactly like Trotsky. Sure, it's fiction. "Lenin" and the other Stalinists want to make it a reality.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

and cause of the shit stained head mikhail gobrechev....him and his parastrika

[James]

Actually there has been nearly my style of government. I am of course relating back to ancient greece, and the city/state of athens. Want me to give more details?

[Anarcho]

lenin- the problem is that I've seen you say that the office workers aren't proletarian, that the office manager types deserve to go up against the wall. I can't find the exact post, but I know it's been said.

Where does the line between proletarian and oppresor come?

Example: I've put in my time here, and I work hard. What happens if I get hired by IBM (I don't know if I'd work for them, but this is an example..) and I'm made managment.

Do I stop being proletarian?


second arguement

You know what? All systems work. Fascism works, for fascists. Tyrany works, if the tyrant is not opposed. Of course Stalinism worked, it would work again. The problem is the trade off. Stalinism works at the expense of the rights and freedoms of the people. Fascism works at the expense of the lives of the workers and the oppressed people.

How to get your system to work for everyone, that is the question.

[El Che]

The scary thing is that lenin will probably like the reality described in 1984, I bet he`ll wish he was in the book.

[lenin]

anarcho, you are prolateriat. if i ever described office workers as not prolateriat, i was wrong. some have the mindset of the petty bourgeoisie, maybe you took that statement the wrong way around.
its funny that the only example you liberals can give me, redsoviet, TS, SS etc is a ficticious book!!! says a lot doesn't it.

[James]

What am i then?

I'm a student doing my GCSE's, and am going to go to college. During summer i'm going to try and work at my local museum. Or am i not classed as something yet?

[lenin]

you james, are classed as an idiot.

[peaccenicked]

What is our resident village idiot babbling on about now.
The proletariat, not being office workers. The biggest pile of nonsense. The only petty bourgeous attitudes on this board come from the Stalinists. (Who are really liberals with an iron fist when they are aware of their tradition). The ones on this board are so petty and divisive, they make 'proper' stalinists look like macho men.

[lenin]

someone explain to me where i said office workers aren't prolateriat? they are intelligencia which is part of the prolateriat!!!!

[thebigcom]

Dont be a Stalinist. Stalinists give those who wish nothing but a non oppressive form of gov't to look like murderers.

[marxistdisciple]

I don't think it's so easy to define proletarian and bougeois classes nowadays. What if you define all the people that earn quite well and dont have too many financial worries as bougeois? Are they the enemy? All the middle class families who want to get on with their lives and raise their children in a safe environment...are they the enemy? I don't think so. they don't make the rules, they don't decide what goes....they were just lucky with them. The real enemy are those, (whatever political class they are) who seek to exploit the masses for greed and power....I'm sure the "proletariat" however they are defined, in my experience have many friends in the "middle classes."

[Mac OS Revolutionary]

Quote: from lenin on 4:49 pm on June 7, 2002
you james, are classed as an idiot.

I know I shouldn't laugh but that just funny. lol :)